End of the BIG XII - THREAD FOR ALL REALIGNMENT DISCUSSION

[FaninAma]

I guess we will just have to wait and see if Boren "embarrassed" OU. I think that as more details come out Texas fans will start questioning why Deloss agreed to sign away control of their tier 1 and tier 2 media rights for basically ever.

[okie52]

How can a conference turning down the number 1 team in the country not be embarrassing no matter what the spin?

It defies logic on how Boren has approached this matter.

[badger]

Meh, everyone's trying to save face at this point, Pac 12 and Boren included. Can't take anything said out there at face value, the truth probably lies somewhere between.

I hope we save face further by getting our Sooner network going asap. I especially want this started in the next few months, because I want it up in time for basketball season. There is possibly no sport that gets me more riled up than womens basketball watching on TV, except perhaps the Packers if they ever creep onto an Oklahoma TV set.

[FaninAma]

My WAG is that the PAC 12 and all the non-texas members of the Big 12 are basically forcing UT's hand.

The deal comes down to how important is the LHN to Texas and Deloss? Is it important enough to give up control of your tier 1&2 rights? Remember, once Texas signs this deal they are going nowhere....not even as an independent. To do so would mean they leave $20+ million of revenue on the table. That means if they get out-voted on every single vote by the conference board they can do nothing but whine and complain.

Personally I don't think they will sign and then OU heads off to the PAC 12 or SEC. Every move, every public statement by Boren has been calculated and planned out for a single purpose.......to isolate and weaken UT in whatever conference we end up in together......if we end up together.

[delhalew]

How can a conference turning down the number 1 team in the country not be embarrassing no matter what the spin?

It defies logic on how Boren has approached this matter.

You don't know the details on this. The decision may have in fact been mutual. Also, when Scott says that, it means no for today. Anyone who believes the PAC doesn't want OU if it makes sense logistically, is a moron.

[delhalew]

My WAG is that the PAC 12 and all the non-texas members of the Big 12 are basically forcing UT's hand.

The deal comes down to how important is the LHN to Texas and Deloss? Is it important enough to give up control of your tier 1&2 rights? Remember, once Texas signs this deal they are going nowhere....not even as an independent. To do so would mean they leave $20+ million of revenue on the table. That means if they get out-voted on every single vote by the conference board they can do nothing but whine and complain.

Personally I don't think they will sign and then OU heads off to the PAC 12 or SEC. Every move, every public statement by Boren has been calculated and planned out for a single purpose.......to isolate and weaken UT in whatever conference we end up in together......if we end up together.

This is the only logical way to look at it.

[Tear Down This Wall]

My e-mail to Boren bounced back...shocking.

Hi. This is the qmail-send program.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<[email protected]>:

Guess he isn't answering all e-mails like some here claim. Look, he's busy. Whether he ever reads an e-mail from me or not, he got played by Pac-12 and Texas. Again.

The conference we have a clear path to is the SEC. We ignore it for unjustified reasons. So, we will continue to do the bidding of DeLoss Dodds. Status quo rules the days yet again.

Looking forward to the Mizzou tilt this weekend. Boomer Sooner to all.

[Mr. Nuke]

I think that as more details come out Texas fans will start questioning why Deloss agreed to sign away control of their tier 1 and tier 2 media rights for basically ever.
Why? Unless you are 100% sure that Texas wanted to go independent within 6 years they should be celebrating. The Big 12 stays together for at least 6 years, Texas keeps the LHN. That is a win-win situation for Texas.

[okie52]

You don't know the details on this. The decision may have in fact been mutual. Also, when Scott says that, it means no for today. Anyone who believes the PAC doesn't want OU if it makes sense logistically, is a moron.

Obviously they don't without TX. And OU really couldn't make a case logistically without another 3 schools going with them. Why that didn't factor into Boren's strategy is beyond me since Scott stated that OU tried to have just OU and OSU be admitted.

And to publicly play the hand the way Boren did was just stupid. Yeah, he may have been running a bluff but it backfired on him and now if he went to the SEC he would look weak and like they were our second choice...not a position a conference would like to be place in.

[Mr. Nuke]

Don't feel too bad. Boren publicly demanded the removal of Beebe and got it.
A symbolic sacrifice. The "power" in this conference always had been at the President's level. Texas, OU, NU, and A&M set up a system so that on issues like unequal revenue sharing once enacted the 4 could prevent any changes from being made. Did Beebe need to go? Yes, but it doesn't solve anything.


Boren publicly said that the conference revenue for tier 1/2 needed to be equally shared and got it.
And this solves absolutely nothing. Everyone already agreed to go from 50% to 76% sharing over the summer. Under the 50% formula OU and Texas made about $2 million more than they would've had revenue been split 100% equally. Boren just voted to give away money. Texas doesn't care much if they sacrifice $1 million to ensure their $15 million side project has a stable home for 7 years or 35% of the LHN contract term. Unequal revenue sharing was never the issue it has been made out to be in the Big XII. Revenue disparity between the Big XII and the SEC and Big Ten was. Giving a Baylor or an Iowa State or a Kansas State schools that don't want to leave until the conference is clearly dead as they don't have better options more money doesn't fix stability.

[8timechamps]

This is the distinct feel of last year's "Beebe saved the conference" baloney. And, many of you are biting again.

As to the question a couple of pages ago, what would I have done - I'd have gotten off my fat *** and called the SEC.

And you know Boren didn't do that how?

What's the fascination with the SEC anyway? I'm sure they wouldn't accept the LHN anymore than the PAC would have. Other than fielding a few good programs each year (yet, every fan of a school in the SEC will tell you how great "their" conference is), I think we would be much better suited to the PAC.

See, that's the thing about all of this, NONE of us know what Boren (and a select few others) know. But to come out and slam the guy because ESPN (or whatever media outlet you follow) tells you how bad OU looks is kinda foolish. Like I said, I've never given a **** about what the media thinks about OU, and I'm not starting now.

[okie52]

And you know Boren didn't do that how?

What's the fascination with the SEC anyway? I'm sure they wouldn't accept the LHN anymore than the PAC would have. Other than fielding a few good programs each year (yet, every fan of a school in the SEC will tell you how great "their" conference is), I think we would be much better suited to the PAC.

See, that's the thing about all of this, NONE of us know what Boren (and a select few others) know. But to come out and slam the guy because ESPN (or whatever media outlet you follow) tells you how bad OU looks is kinda foolish. Like I said, I've never given a **** about what the media thinks about OU, and I'm not starting now.

He11, I haven't even heard ESPN. It is so apparent all but the most crimson would see how foolish Boren looks to the nation in this fiasco. But he has shown wonderful loyalty to OSU regardless of any consequences it may have for OU.

[okie52]

By the way OU needs traveling partners to go west....we don't need any to go to the SEC.

[8timechamps]

He11, I haven't even heard ESPN. It is so apparent all but the most crimson would see how foolish Boren looks to the nation in this fiasco. But he has shown wonderful loyalty to OSU regardless of any consequences it may have for OU.

Why exactly does Boren look so foolish? And I'll pose to you the same question I posed earlier, what would you have done had you been in his shoes?

[delhalew]

Obviously they don't without TX. And OU really couldn't make a case logistically without another 3 schools going with them. Why that didn't factor into Boren's strategy is beyond me since Scott stated that OU tried to have just OU and OSU be admitted.

And to publicly play the hand the way Boren did was just stupid. Yeah, he may have been running a bluff but it backfired on him and now if he went to the SEC he would look weak and like they were our second choice...not a position a conference would like to be place in.

Circular argument. We disagree. I think your missing the forest on account of the media's trees.

[okie52]

Why exactly does Boren look so foolish? And I'll pose to you the same question I posed earlier, what would you have done had you been in his shoes?

I would have kept my mouth shut until I had a deal and it would have been done quietly...see the ACC. And by a deal I mean in writing by Scott assuming he had the authority.

And this coverup of OU demands is laughable. Where would we go? Boren has ruled out the SEC and now he could crawl back to them and hope they would forgive him even though the SEC would know they were his 2nd or 3rd choice. But hey, he got Beebe fired...somebody's head had to roll for this fiasco.

[okie52]

Circular argument. We disagree. I think your missing the forest on account of the media's trees.

Please explain the media trees...I'd love to take refuge in some view that keeps OU from looking stupid.

[delhalew]

Please explain the media trees...I'd love to take refuge in some view that keeps OU from looking stupid.

It's pretty simple. The media had fans ready to pack their bags. Clearly our administration still finds the Big12 to be desirable. If the drama is purged, I agree.

Statements were made that showed that the Big12 would collapse if changes weren't made. Whorn comes the table. If the changes are made, the conference is viable. If not, then it's time to act on the talk.

Clearly, our administration believes the changes will be made.

[cherokeebrewer]

Boren has ruled out the SEC and now he could crawl back to them and hope they would forgive him even though the SEC would know they were his 2nd or 3rd choice.
First you want David Boren to shut up and now you want him to crawl? You realize David Boren has done more for OU (The University) than any other president in my considerable life time. Respect is not a character flaw...

[dennis580]

The TV contract ends in 5 years -- the commitment deal is for 6. Meaning, the Big XII schools will have to sign a new TV contract before the commitment deal expires. Essentially, this stabilizes the conference for a very long time unless the new TV deal is only for 1-year.

Thats not at all true. A team can still make plans to leave in year 5, and then leave in year 6 once the contract expires.

Also Missouri has not signed, and probably will not sign a slong as the SEC remains a option.

[badger]

sooo... is anyone else looking forward to the OU TV network? I am sick of only getting to see Sooner basketball and baseball occasionally. Hell, I'd eve tune into ESPNU if they were showing OU volleyball!

And no, I'm not kidding. Let's get OU on TV as much as possible, football or other sports.

[BASSooner]

Thats not at all true. A team can still make plans to leave in year 5, and then leave in year 6 once the contract expires.

Also Missouri has not signed, and probably will not sign a slong as the SEC remains a option.
Just thought about this. Does it become a binding contract when ALL signatures are obtained (assuming all nine presidents that agreed to this deal) or is this done individually.

[FaninAma]

Thats not at all true. A team can still make plans to leave in year 5, and then leave in year 6 once the contract expires.

Also Missouri has not signed, and probably will not sign a slong as the SEC remains a option.

The way I understand it is that if a school leaves the conference they lose their tier 1 and tier 2 rights for 6 years. It doesn't matter if it is the first year or the last year of the contract. That is the only way the Big 12 can convince a decent outside program to join the conference. They will not do it if they feel there is a decent chance of the conference ending up back at this point in 6 years.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

sooo... is anyone else looking forward to the OU TV network? I am sick of only getting to see Sooner basketball and baseball occasionally. Hell, I'd eve tune into ESPNU if they were showing OU volleyball!

And no, I'm not kidding. Let's get OU on TV as much as possible, football or other sports.

This times a brazillion. I'd give a kidney to camp out on the couch with my baby girl and watch our Sooner ladies on the soccer pitch.

[SMU2BCS]

Quite the drive if BYU, AFA, or Cincy get in. Better pack a lunch if West Virginia gets into the Big 12. Its 1,142 miles to Morgantown as compared to only 191 miles to Dallas. Now that's real money.

Norman to Dallas = 191 miles.
Norman to Provo = 1,117 miles.
Norman to Cincinnati = 868 miles.
Norman to Louisville = 783 miles.
Norman to Morgantown = 1,142 miles.

Tell President Boren to vote for SMU. For more info, go to SMU2BCS.com.

[badger]

Tell President Boren to vote for SMU. For more info, go to SMU2BCS.com.

Give me better arguments besides driving time, please.

Seriously. I'm sure people are willing to hear you out. You obviously put a lot of work into your site. Just please, give another reason why OU should be interested in SMU besides driving distance to Dallas. We already know all about driving to Dallas, we do it at least once a year :)

[BASSooner]

Quite the drive if BYU, AFA, or Cincy get in. Better pack a lunch if West Virginia gets into the Big 12. Its 1,142 miles to Morgantown as compared to only 191 miles to Dallas. Now that's real money.

Norman to Dallas = 191 miles.
Norman to Provo = 1,117 miles.
Norman to Cincinnati = 868 miles.
Norman to Louisville = 783 miles.
Norman to Morgantown = 1,142 miles.

Tell President Boren to vote for SMU. For more info, go to SMU2BCS.com.
Go back and do what TCU did: Prove that you're worth the value. We'll consider you after that happens.

[Mr. Nuke]

The way I understand it is that if a school leaves the conference they lose their tier 1 and tier 2 rights for 6 years. It doesn't matter if it is the first year or the last year of the contract. That is the only way the Big 12 can convince a decent outside program to join the conference. They will not do it if they feel there is a decent chance of the conference ending up back at this point in 6 years.
Listening to Boren explain it last night given how he specifically mentioned the significance of 6 years as it goes one year beyond the expiration of the current ABC deal, the more logical interpretation is that it is a 6 year agreement from now. So if a school wanted to leave in 5 years, they wouldn't have media rights to give a conference for 1 year.

[delhalew]

I would love to watch some ladies volleyball. Love those gals.

[JudInKC]

Quite the drive if BYU, AFA, or Cincy get in. Better pack a lunch if West Virginia gets into the Big 12. Its 1,142 miles to Morgantown as compared to only 191 miles to Dallas. Now that's real money.

Norman to Dallas = 191 miles.
Norman to Provo = 1,117 miles.
Norman to Cincinnati = 868 miles.
Norman to Louisville = 783 miles.
Norman to Morgantown = 1,142 miles.

Tell President Boren to vote for SMU. For more info, go to SMU2BCS.com.

I'd rather have Tulsa than SMU and I don't want Tulsa.

[jtrumbly]

I agree we should add Air Force. and since I live in Colorado Springs, that way I could see my Sooners every other year...

[okie52]

First you want David Boren to shut up and now you want him to crawl? You realize David Boren has done more for OU (The University) than any other president in my considerable life time. Respect is not a character flaw...

Oh I think Boren has been a great president overall but this is about the biggest Gaffe I have ever seen by an OU president.

I want Boren to not have to crawl and if Boren had kept his mouth shut he wouldn't have to. Really pretty simple. The national perception prior to Boren's outbursts was that OU could go the PAC or SEC. Well the PAC said no and the SEC would probably too now since Boren has made it apparent that they would be his 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice.

The truth isn't a character flaw...blind loyalty on the hand......

[MeMyself&Me]

I wonder if we can talk Pitt into making a right turn on their way to the ACC. I think Pitt was the best option from the Big East. When I was on their boards a few weeks back, there was interest in them sticking with West Virginia. If we're considering West Virginia...

Also, I think whatever conference Pitt is in is where ND goes when they finally have enough of indy which is part of why I like Pitt but I think Pitt is a decent grab on their own.

[okie52]

It's pretty simple. The media had fans ready to pack their bags. Clearly our administration still finds the Big12 to be desirable. If the drama is purged, I agree.

Statements were made that showed that the Big12 would collapse if changes weren't made. Whorn comes the table. If the changes are made, the conference is viable. If not, then it's time to act on the talk.

Clearly, our administration believes the changes will be made.

What are our options now if the conference collapses or tX won't change?

[okie52]

Sooners
embarrassed after not following Aggies' strategy with UT

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09/21/3386820/sooners-embarrassed-after-not.html?storylink=addthis#.TntDfm3Sq_o.emailixzz1 YoSqSjI4

Embarrassing.

[sooner KB]

Quite the drive if BYU, AFA, or Cincy get in. Better pack a lunch if West Virginia gets into the Big 12. Its 1,142 miles to Morgantown as compared to only 191 miles to Dallas. Now that's real money.

Norman to Dallas = 191 miles.
Norman to Provo = 1,117 miles.
Norman to Cincinnati = 868 miles.
Norman to Louisville = 783 miles.
Norman to Morgantown = 1,142 miles.

Tell President Boren to vote for SMU. For more info, go to SMU2BCS.com.

If we were that concerned with driving distance, we would take TCU over SMU any day.

[3rdgensooner]

okie52, you seem inordinately upset. What's your game plan for dealing with this apparently significant blow?

[sperry]

Sooners
embarrassed after not following Aggies' strategy with UT

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09/21/3386820/sooners-embarrassed-after-not.html?storylink=addthis#.TntDfm3Sq_o.emailixzz1 YoSqSjI4

Embarrassing.



Unfortunately hits the nail right on the head. We'll go through this song and dance again every off season until the thing collapses, but it's going to be miserable until then.

[TrueBornSooner]

I'd rather stay in a less powerful Big XII than go to the SEC. Not because I'm afraid of them, but because I can't stand the conference. It would have taken all the joy out of football.

[SoonerMom2]

Boren spoke out for one reason at the beginning -- TX had lined up BYU to join which would have meant scheduling headaches for a lot of sports other than football since they don't play on Sunday.

MO had no desire to go to the PAC 12 and KS cannot leave without KSU. That left OU and OSU for the PAC 12 and they didn't want Tech without UT. OU never applied to the PAC 12 so we were never turned down. PAC 12 had no desire to expand to 14 and don't blame them because a pod couldn't have been done and one of the old PAC 8 schools would have had to move to the east.

NO way does OU want to be in the culture that is the SEC. Try telling me that the two MS schools and KY are really good in football. Some of you make it sound like the SEC top to the bottom is the best and it is just not true. FL couldn't win championships at FL and get over the hump until he hired Stoops as his defensive coordinator. AL several years ago was really horrible. Some of you need to take off your rose colored glasses about the SEC and realize that they have their problems with lower level teams the same as all conferences including the Big 10.

[okie52]

okie52, you seem inordinately upset. What's your game plan for dealing with this apparently significant blow?

As Traber is now saying he feels bad for Stoops and Castiglione having to be with Boren last night. Cover for Boren at their expense.

I am upset with Boren over this because of how stupid it was because it was so unnecessary. Without meaning to be political, it was
even more stupid than Boren coming out in support of Obama in 2008. Totally unnecessary with unwarranted risks for the university.

I always wanted to stay in the Big 12 but now we get to with egg on our face.

[SoonerMom2]

I agree we should add Air Force. and since I live in Colorado Springs, that way I could see my Sooners every other year...

The AFA game was AWESOME last year. The people who would watch around the world as the AFA played Big 12 schools would be awesome. That would get us back into the Colorado market and the drive isn't bad at all. Not to mention the Academy stadium is one of the most beautiful settings you could have.

[SoonerMom2]

So now people are paying attention to the Fort Worthless paper? Give me a break. Nationally a lot of radio people are laying the blame strictly on TX and ESPN. What do you expect a TX paper to do especially one in Fort Worth? Say that UT is arrogant and greedy which is what caused this mess?

[cherokeebrewer]

The truth isn't a character flaw...blind loyalty on the hand......
Oh sure, you and Randy Galloway have the "truth" in your pocket...Ha!

[SMU2BCS]

I appreciate the response! Couple facts to consider:

SMU has the largest athletic budget of any non-AQ school.
SMU has won the C-USA Directors Cup 11 of the last 14 years. (Granted it's not the Big 12, but it's our current measuring stick.)
SMU has been to two bowl games in the past two years, which is more than four of the teams in the Big XII.

Plus, there's something to be said for proximity. An SMU-OU game here in Dallas would generate a huge buzz here in Dallas among football fans. SMU fans or not, people here are much more likely to turn out to watch SMU take on OU than they would to see SMU play East Carolina or Alabama-Birmingham.

[soonerbub]

Wake me up when texass actually concedes to ANY demands of the rest of the conference.

Moving beyond the month long fiasco and back to on the field football. The longwhorn in the room that NO ONE seems to discuss is this: there is HUGE pressure on :mack: to justify all the :texan: bluster by actually getting results on the gridiron. ESPN looks incredibly stupid by pimping a mediocre (oh wait 5-7 is worse than mediocre) program.

So let's control the one thing we can control with no need of spin or face-saving. October 8 is coming very soon and the (blackened) eyes of texass will be watching.

[Sabanball]

Something that caught my attention--It was so appropo that OU & MO would have dueling press conferences. A perfect example of the Big12 not being on same page...

[sooner KB]

okie52, you seem inordinately upset.


Boren coming out in support of Obama.



Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding


%#& David Boren that $#&! I hate that idiot %&#! I'm so f%!& mad.


Tear Down This Wall

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding

[sperry]

So now people are paying attention to the Fort Worthless paper? Give me a break. Nationally a lot of radio people are laying the blame strictly on TX and ESPN. What do you expect a TX paper to do especially one in Fort Worth? Say that UT is arrogant and greedy which is what caused this mess?


That's exactly what the article said, if you had taken the time to read it.

[sperry]

So now people are paying attention to the Fort Worthless paper? Give me a break. Nationally a lot of radio people are laying the blame strictly on TX and ESPN. What do you expect a TX paper to do especially one in Fort Worth? Say that UT is arrogant and greedy which is what caused this mess?


The SEC has 5 out of 12 programs that historically suck (South Carolina, Ole, Miss, Kentucky, Miss. St., Vandy). The Big 9 has 7 out of 9 Programs that historically suck (Mizzou, Osu, K-State, Kansas, Iowa St., Baylor, Tech).

[SoonerMom2]

That's exactly what the article said, if you had taken the time to read it. I read it and went back and read it again after your comments. Some of the info in the article doesn't match with what happened. Unlike A&M, we couldn't just walk away without a firestorm of gigantic proportions here in the state from the Governor to the Legislature. Total different circumstance between A&M and OU. We are stuck with little brother and A&M is stuck taking no one with them. Right there the article loses my attention. Guess you read in an article what you want to read but you cannot compare what A&M did with OU. Apples and oranges IMHO.

[SicEmBaylor]

Everyone take a deep-breath and tell yourselves that everything is just fine. Some agreement will be reached that the various university heads will be able to live with and the world will continue to turn on its axis. OU Athletics will continue to make money hand-over-fist. OU will continue to have sold out season ticket packages until the end of the next millenium, you'll still have one of the highest paid coaches in the country, you're still going to be #1 in the conference more years than not, and you'll still continue to earn that #1 national ranking that you so often have. You're still going to bring #8 to Norman sooner than later and Texas will continue to suck. All of this regardless of the tier i and tier ii media negotiations.

Chill. You're Oklahoma.

[sperry]

Everyone take a deep-breath and tell yourselves that everything is just fine. Some agreement will be reached that the various university heads will be able to live with and the world will continue to turn on its axis. OU Athletics will continue to make money hand-over-fist. OU will continue to have sold out season ticket packages until the end of the next millenium, you'll still have one of the highest paid coaches in the country, you're still going to be #1 in the conference more years than not, and you'll still continue to earn that #1 national ranking that you so often have. You're still going to bring #8 to Norman sooner than later and Texas will continue to suck. All of this regardless of the tier i and tier ii media negotiations.

Chill. You're Oklahoma.


Obviously things will be great this year, and probalby for the next several. It's the long term future that's important. Not even the most tradition rich schools are immune to becoming has beens if they don't keep with the times (see Notre Dame).

[SoonerinSouthlake]

Everyone take a deep-breath and tell yourselves that everything is just fine. Some agreement will be reached that the various university heads will be able to live with and the world will continue to turn on its axis. OU Athletics will continue to make money hand-over-fist. OU will continue to have sold out season ticket packages until the end of the next millenium, you'll still have one of the highest paid coaches in the country, you're still going to be #1 in the conference more years than not, and you'll still continue to earn that #1 national ranking that you so often have. You're still going to bring #8 to Norman sooner than later and Texas will continue to suck. All of this regardless of the tier i and tier ii media negotiations.

Chill. You're Oklahoma.


Look Bro...we've been overreacting since the days of Bennie Owen...and we know what we are doing. So dont come on this board with your "OBJECTIVE perspectives" and try to tell us how we should view the situation. We have taken every issue well further than it needed to go for many many years. Clearly we don't need an outsider to explain to us how to properly observe the current landscape. We will overblow many times over all by ourselves.

That is all

[GottaHavePride]

Look Bro...we've been overreacting since the days of Bennie Owen...and we know what we are doing. So dont come on this board with your "OBJECTIVE perspectives" and try to tell us how we should view the situation. We have taken every issue well further than it needed to go for many many years. Clearly we don't need an outsider to explain to us how to properly observe the current landscape. We will overblow many times over all by ourselves.

That is all

I c wut u did thar.

[3rdgensooner]

Everyone take a deep-breath and tell yourselves that everything is just fine. Some agreement will be reached that the various university heads will be able to live with and the world will continue to turn on its axis. OU Athletics will continue to make money hand-over-fist. OU will continue to have sold out season ticket packages until the end of the next millenium, you'll still have one of the highest paid coaches in the country, you're still going to be #1 in the conference more years than not, and you'll still continue to earn that #1 national ranking that you so often have. You're still going to bring #8 to Norman sooner than later and Texas will continue to suck. All of this regardless of the tier i and tier ii media negotiations.

Chill. You're Oklahoma.


Look Bro...we've been overreacting since the days of Bennie Owen...and we know what we are doing. So dont come on this board with your "OBJECTIVE perspectives" and try to tell us how we should view the situation. We have taken every issue well further than it needed to go for many many years. Clearly we don't need an outsider to explain to us how to properly observe the current landscape. We will overblow many times over all by ourselves.

That is all

YEAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

[GreenSooner]

Boren...very weak, hand poorly played.

No amount of backtracking will make him look better.

I disagree. As I see it, OU thought they had hand, but discovered they had no hand at all (most likely explanation: PAC Commish and/or schools misrepresented their views to Boren).

Suddenly finding himself hand-free, Boren did as well as he could have, which wasn't very well. But he really had no other options. I'm not a huge fan of all the turd-polishing that went on at yesterday's presser, but it was to be expected under the circumstances.

[soonerboomer93]

Give me better arguments besides driving time, please.

Seriously. I'm sure people are willing to hear you out. You obviously put a lot of work into your site. Just please, give another reason why OU should be interested in SMU besides driving distance to Dallas. We already know all about driving to Dallas, we do it at least once a year :)

I can give you a reason no SMU

Craig James

[soonerboomer93]

okie52, you seem inordinately upset. What's your game plan for dealing with this apparently significant blow?

apparently he will improve his self esteem buy blowing random baylor and ut fans

[aurorasooner]

How much did the Big 12 have to pay to get rid of this loser? (According to one of the national media outlets) his new contract ran through 2015 & he was bumped from 650K to ~ 1 Mil a year. geez us, this guy was just collecting a check, kissing whorn azz, & playing golf. It'll be interesting to see if he lands some kind of cush do-nothing legal consulting pay-off job with that Nat'l Media outlet or perhaps the Whorn network. Unbelievable that the Big 12 University Prezs & ADs would let this guy continue as a conference comish. I guess this never got back to Joe C. or Boren because Capel got the ax.
2. Why didn't Beebe try to expand in 2010 to stabilize the Big 12?

I have no idea ... but his coaches encouraged him to do it. That's one of the things I've learned over the past week while talking to various sources, that the basketball coaches implored Beebe at a meeting last year to be proactive and go after Arizona and Arizona State, Arkansas, some Big East schools, anybody. "One coach raised his hand and asked Beebe, 'Who have you called?'" a source told me. "He said, 'Have you called Arizona and Arizona State? Have you called Arkansas? Have you called anybody? And if not, why? We need to expand or we're going to get picked apart again.' And? "Beebe told us he hadn't called anybody, and that we'd be fine staying with what we had," the source said. "We were all just looking at him like he was an idiot. We knew what would happen, but he was so sure it wouldn't. We couldn't believe it." http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15629707/five-for-the-weekend-coach-fires-at-beebe-upon-commishs-exit

[8timechamps]

Sooners
embarrassed after not following Aggies' strategy with UT

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09/21/3386820/sooners-embarrassed-after-not.html?storylink=addthis#.TntDfm3Sq_o.emailixzz1 YoSqSjI4

Embarrassing.

First and foremost, I (as mentioned twice on this subject) couldn't give a dead rat's *** what The Star Telegram (or any other over reacting media outlet) has to opine in regards to OU. Sorry it's so embarrassing for you. You must really be going through a rough time with all of this.

You also mentioned "we" have egg on our face (or something to that effect), who is "we"? Like I said, this has apparently upset you far more than me. I hope you can make it through the season without this bringing you down (seriously).

I'm not saying you are of this school of thought, but some just don't like Boren's politics, so they don't like how he handled this. That's too bad. But, it doesn't change one ounce of loyalty I have for Oklahoma.

My oldest son is a junior in high school, and we don't live in Oklahoma, but that's where he wants to go to school. All of this mess that you are so embarrassed about has done absolutely nothing to change his mind (or probably the minds of 99.9% of future students). We're still the #1 team on the gridiron, and will, at the very least, be hunting national championship #8 this year. We won in the Big 6, we won in the Big 8 and we continue to win in the Big XII...

The reason I say all of that, is because the decisions made by Boren don't change any of those things.

I am not embarrassed. "We" don't share the same opinion, and that's okay with me. This will remain in the headlines until the next crazy uniform is unveiled, or the next Ohio State rules violation is uncovered...then it will be just like it always is.

I hope you can work through all of this, for your own state-of-mind.

[mgsooner]

Lot of ostriches on here I see.

[8timechamps]

Lot of ostriches on here I see.

Funny, I kinda thought there were a lot of Chicken Littles on here.

[delhalew]

Lot of ostriches on here I see.

Lemonade.

[BigTip]

Galloway's article illustrated something positive. He painted OU in a good light and stated plainly that Texass were just arrogant, money grubbing, pricks. Okay, maybe that isn't a direct quote, but that was the gist of it.

OU good. Texass pricks. If nothing else this whole thing has clearly shown the world this.

[Lott's Bandana]

I was at Atwood's today in Norman and there was this outdoor awning at the entrance advertising Nocona college boots. These boots were nice looking and had OU stamped on them.

The chick sitting out there repping her company, getting NO business, in fact...nobody even stopped to look...well, she was wearing a nasty uterus shirt.

smh

[MeMyself&Me]

I was at Atwood's today in Norman and there was this outdoor awning at the entrance advertising Nocona college boots. These boots were nice looking and had OU stamped on them.

The chick sitting out there repping her company, getting NO business, in fact...nobody even stopped to look...well, she was wearing a nasty uterus shirt.

smh

LOL, serves her right. She should know better. If I was selling something for my livelihood in Austin, I wouldn't be wearing an OU shirt while doing it.

[SicEmBaylor]

LOL, serves her right. She should know better. If I was selling something for my livelihood in Austin, I wouldn't be wearing an OU shirt while doing it.

This is because you have basic common sense which is probably due to the fact that you're a male.

[Octavian]

Everyone take a deep-breath and tell yourselves that everything is just fine. Some agreement will be reached that the various university heads will be able to live with and the world will continue to turn on its axis. OU Athletics will continue to make money hand-over-fist. OU will continue to have sold out season ticket packages until the end of the next millenium, you'll still have one of the highest paid coaches in the country, you're still going to be #1 in the conference more years than not, and you'll still continue to earn that #1 national ranking that you so often have. You're still going to bring #8 to Norman sooner than later and Texas will continue to suck. All of this regardless of the tier i and tier ii media negotiations.

Chill. You're Oklahoma.


If all of these things don't happen, will you sue somebody for us?

[Octavian]

I actually am interested in an answer on this.


If the University of Oklahoma has to stay in a Prison Conference because of Proxy Force Baylor, I'd just like to know if you'll sue someone if we don't get everything you promise.


I just wanna be a happy inmate.

[SicEmBaylor]

If all of these things don't happen, will you sue somebody for us?
We'll probably sue the same number of people for OU that we did for A&M.

[Octavian]

Gotcha

[SicEmBaylor]

I actually am interested in an answer on this.


If the University of Oklahoma has to stay in a Prison Conference because of Proxy Force Baylor, I'd just like to know if you'll sue someone if we don't get everything you promise.

1. What have we promised?
2. Who would we sue?
3. Why would we sue someone because you didn't get everything we promised?
4. Lay off the juice for the night.

[SicEmBaylor]

Gotcha
Boy, did you ever! I'm going to be embarrassed for a looooong time. ;)

[Octavian]

Texas and OU


http://callitaweasel.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/gladiator_commodus.jpg?w=300&h=199

[Octavian]

Boy, did you ever! I'm going to be embarrassed for a looooong time. ;)


wut?

[Octavian]

1. What have we promised?
2. Who would we sue?
3. Why would we sue someone because you didn't get everything we promised?
4. Lay off the juice for the night.


1. Promises based off your post -- cause, you know...this is a message board
2. Anybody. Everybody.
3. Who knows? You're Baylor.
4. You'd love my juice.

[okie52]

Oh sure, you and Randy Galloway have the "truth" in your pocket...Ha!

Brilliant.

[the-rover]

The SEC has 5 out of 12 programs that historically suck (South Carolina, Ole, Miss, Kentucky, Miss. St., Vandy). The Big 9 has 7 out of 9 Programs that historically suck (Mizzou, Osu, K-State, Kansas, Iowa St., Baylor, Tech).

You're almost right, let's go 8 out of 9 in the B9, because.....Texas has always sucked

[kevpks]

Ugh...Gameday. Fowler in reference to the Pac-12 and OU's desire to go there. "There was NO interest from the conference in adding those teams." In reference to the SEC adding a team. Corso: "Go get the best team. Get Texas."

[cherokeebrewer]

Brilliant.

Sorry, I dumbed it down for you best I could...

[Sco]

I appreciate the response! Couple facts to consider:

SMU has the largest athletic budget of any non-AQ school.
SMU has won the C-USA Directors Cup 11 of the last 14 years. (Granted it's not the Big 12, but it's our current measuring stick.)
SMU has been to two bowl games in the past two years, which is more than four of the teams in the Big XII.

Plus, there's something to be said for proximity. An SMU-OU game here in Dallas would generate a huge buzz here in Dallas among football fans. SMU fans or not, people here are much more likely to turn out to watch SMU take on OU than they would to see SMU play East Carolina or Alabama-Birmingham.

Couple of reasons not to consider those facts:

SMU has the largest athletic budget of any non-AQ school.

SMU doesn't have a large alumni base compared to the other Big 12 teams, and we already own the Dallas market due to all of the OU, UT, TTU, etc. fans out there. SMU doesn't bring the conference any more money.

SMU has been to two bowl games in the past two years, which is more than four of the teams in the Big XII.

So? This is because there are only so many bowl contracts for the conference and you have to have a 6-6 record minimum to make a bowl. Of course there will be some teams in the Big 12 that don't make a bowl every year.

Plus, there's something to be said for proximity. An SMU-OU game here in Dallas would generate a huge buzz here in Dallas among football fans. SMU fans or not, people here are much more likely to turn out to watch SMU take on OU than they would to see SMU play East Carolina or Alabama-Birmingham.

What's great for your program isn't necessarily great for us (or anyone else in the Big 12). Outside of OU and UT, a lot of the other schools have been playing an annual game in Dallas already (TTU and Baylor, for instance. A&M was playing Arkansas). Big 12 championship is in Dallas. Overall, the teams come to Dallas enough where we get that "huge buzz" among Dallas football fans.

The Big 12 isn't going to take a team for the sake of taking a team. They're going to take a team that brings money and fans to the conference and expands the conference's footprint. This is why I think it's unlikely that any team from Texas will be invited.

[Lott's Bandana]

Ugh...Gameday. Fowler in reference to the Pac-12 and OU's desire to go there. "There was NO interest from the conference in adding those teams." In reference to the SEC adding a team. Corso: "Go get the best team. Get Texas."


ESPN has so much damage control to do now, after whorn completely showed its azz the past month. Now the entire country sees them for what they are, and ohbytheway 5-7. Production meetings in Bristol are all about how many ways we can prop whorn and their LHN back up.

All this blows over soon and whorn becomes the false idol again, like they always have been.

[Lott's Bandana]

Having read the latest 784 page book about the history of ESPN, one thing really, really, really stood out:


ESPN is EXACTLY what we all claim it to be.

They abide by a business philosophy that strives for the absolute top dollar and ratings they can get, no matter what. There was a conscious decision made about 20 years ago that when given the choice between ratings and journalism, their journalism takes a back seat...every time.

Bob Ley is pretty much the only one at Bristol that is allowed to really do journalism.

Chris Berman is the only "face" they supported (reluctantly) becoming a "star". Any "face" that began/begins to become popular or make a name for themselves is harangued into compliance. They refuse to create stars because they don't want to pay them. Olberman is the best example of this.

Any way ESPN can promote their interests, they do so at full throttle.

Ever wonder why we are getting soccer forced down our throats? The president of ESPN is a huge soccer fan and it was his first stated goal when he took over the job to create a national interest in the sport. That is why you see soccer highlights on Sportscenter and soccer scores on the crawl. Otherwise, they would NOT be there.


Important to state: this book was completely supported by ESPN and is not an attack, it just tells the history and the truth of their absolutely successful business model and what they do to achieve it.

[Sooner1972]

Texass in the SEC is laughable by Corso. They wouldn't be able to order them all around like they can everyone in the Zombie Conference, plus (as I said in another thread) Texass would be an underdog against every team in the entire conference outside of Ole Miss, and would have a very realistic chance of going 0-8 there.

[BB37]

Texass in the SEC is laughable by Corso. They wouldn't be able to order them all around like they can everyone in the Zombie Conference, plus (as I said in another thread) Texass would be an underdog against every team in the entire conference outside of Ole Miss, and would have a very realistic chance of going 0-8 there.

They would be favored against MSU and Vandy, but you're right, ut would never go to the SEC because 'Bama, UF, LSU would never kowtow to them; Dodds and ut need to be worshiped.

[Sooner1972]

I disagree that Texass would be favored over either of those two. Texass beat BYU by 1, who beat Ole Miss by 1, who lost to Vandy by 23. Vandy beats Texass by DD. MSU's 2 losses were to AU (the defending champions) and LSU (who MSU defensively shut down and played the closest of anyone). Neither of those losses is remotely shameful, and the LSU loss looks even more impressive after LSU did against Oregon and WV. MSU handily beats Texass by DD.

[SoonerMom2]

Talked to some MO fans after the game and the one thing that is universal is blaming TX for this fiasco this year along with ESPN. Everyone was talking about TX arrogance.

[LiveLaughLove]

I've been gone and listening to the Animal over my iphone while the fiasco occured. So some of my comments are about things I heard on there and not necessarily stuff that has been said here.

First, Boren has been a good president for OU, no doubt. He is NOT the best president, not by a long shot. That would be Dr. Cross (our version of George Washington), who got it all started. Since most people are too young to know what he did for OU, I'm not surprised that people would say Boren but it's just not the case. Cross would punch Deloss Dodds in the nose. Might not help in negotiating, but he would have felt better. :)

Secondly, Boren is a former Senator. Senators like to convene committtees and sub-committees, etc. The Senate moves slowly. Boren might be a great overall strategist (like getting buildings built at the university), but we needed a tactician that could punch, counter-punch, and quickly decide on things throughout this. Sadly, Boren was not that guy.

It didn't take Nebbish, CU, aTm, Pitt, or Syracuse long to get the heck out of town in their respective cases, but OU for some reason took forever. I believe it was because we had Eisenhower when we needed Patton.

Now that the Big XII is staying and we are staying (which makes me want to throw up), then an Eisenhower wont be so bad to have. Grand strategy and all.

What he did at the presser was flat out embarrassing. He has leveraged us right in to having no recourse but to let texas have everything it truly wants, while giving up stuff that it could not care less about, so as to appear conciliatory.

Also, how is OU having its own network and texas its own going to promote harmony in the conference? It's not. The Big X has an awesome network. OU and texas will never come close. Very sad.

[sooner518]

Texags resident d-bag Billy lucci reporting that the official ATM to sec announcement will come later today.

[cherokeebrewer]

First, Boren has been a good president for OU, no doubt. He is NOT the best president, not by a long shot. That would be Dr. Cross (our version of George Washington), who got it all started. Since most people are too young to know what he did for OU, I'm not surprised that people would say Boren but it's just not the case. Cross would punch Deloss Dodds in the nose. Might not help in negotiating, but he would have felt better. :)

You're absolutely correct about Dr. George Lynn Cross. I was heading off to war at the end of his tenure...things got fuzzy after that...

[SicEmBaylor]

Don't they teach you OU people about your founders and greatest Presidents from the very moment you first step on campus? Are there not statues dedicated to all of the best Presidents? I honestly ask because I've been on campus there at least 100 times, but I never paid any attention to whether or not there were statues aroundcampus.

Every student at Baylor should know names like Judge Baylor, Rufus Burleson, Abner McCall, Samuel Palmer Brooks, and some day Judge Starr's likeness will be erected somewhere.

Learn your history, folks; learn your history.

[SoCal]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7019493/texas-officially-gets-accepted-sec

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- The Southeastern Conference says Texas A&M is set to be join the league next year.

The SEC announced Sunday that the move will be effective next July, and says Texas A&M will participate in all sports during the 2012-13 academic year. That gives the SEC 13 members and its first addition since South Carolina and Arkansas in 1992.

The Aggies' defection from the Big 12 had been held up with threatened legal action from Baylor and other schools. The statement released by the SEC did not mention that situation, and spokesman Charles Bloom did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

A source told ESPN's Joe Schad that Texas A&M's negotiation of an exit fee with the Big 12 "will now begin in earnest."

The SEC's announcement that Texas A&M will begin play in the conference next year is "unconditional," sources told Schad.

If any institution, such as Baylor, files litigation it would be dealt with at that time.

Baylor's decision not to waive its right to sue the SEC or Texas A&M was based in large part, however, on a desire to get the remaining nine schools to commit, which Big 12 leadership says is a goal recently moved closer to.

SEC presidents and chancellors voted in favor of the move on Sept. 6.

"The Southeastern Conference Presidents and Chancellors are pleased to welcome Texas A&M University to the SEC family," said Dr. Bernie Machen, chair of the SEC Presidents and Chancellors and president of the University of Florida. "The addition of Texas A&M University as the SEC's 13th member gives our league a prestigious academic institution with a strong athletic tradition and a culture similar to our current institutions."

Texas A&M President R. Bowen Loftin says: We are excited to begin competition in the nation's premier athletic conference."

Joe Schad is covers college football for ESPN.

[SoonerMom2]

Are they also going to take MO tomorrow? There were some MO fans in front of me waiting for the shuttle who said that has been rumored for some time as MO has been talking to the SEC since last summer.

What happens if we go down to eight schools?

[trwxxa]

Are they also going to take MO tomorrow? There were some MO fans in front of me waiting for the shuttle who said that has been rumored for some time as MO has been talking to the SEC since last summer.

What happens if we go down to eight schools?

Does Missouri still need to file exit papers first?

[SoonerMom2]

I thought MO would have to file exit papers but as crazy as this has all become who knows. All I know is the MO President's press conference did not match, OU, KS, or OSU which I thought really strange -- it was like they were on two different calls. Who are they going to notify in the Big 12 conference as Beebe is gone and the new interim Commissioner is not taking over until 3 October? Guess SEC decided to make the move when they heard the new Commissioner wanted to talk to A&M.

[BASSooner]

Well if MO is about to make a move, it would be anytime after all the schools waived their right to sue A&M to the SEC. However, if they're gonna make a decision, it needs to be quick and quiet.

[SicEmBaylor]

Well if MO is about to make a move, it would be anytime after all the schools waived their right to sue A&M to the SEC. However, if they're gonna make a decision, it needs to be quick and quiet.
The SEC dropped its requirement for Big XII member schools to waive their right to litigate therefore there is no reason for Baylor or anyone else to waive such rights.

I don't think Missouri is going to go. I think the SEC is their backup in case the Big XII went belly-up. Aggie going to the SEC is nothing new; therefore, I don't think they would have announced their intention to help strengthen the conference if they were going to leave for the SEC.

On the other hand, Aggie made the same statements about being committed to the SEC until they turned around and bolted so you probably can't trust anyone in this conference as far as you can throw them. Except us...we're angelic-like.

[SoonerMom2]

SicEm -- Didn't A&M want to go with AR? I remember hearing something like that when we lived down there and AR left the SWC.

[SicEmBaylor]

SicEm -- Didn't A&M want to go with AR? I remember hearing something like that when we lived down there and AR left the SWC.
That was well before my time, but I believe that was the case. Aggie has had one eye on the SEC for a very long time.

[Sooner1972]

Honestly I'm a little disgusted by our administration. I thought that Boren was a really smart guy who saw all of the moves ahead of time, but now I feel sort of the opposite.

We have seen our 3rd-5th best members all run from this hellhole, all the while continuing to bend over for Texass. Something is really wrong when we are all here hoping and praying that Mizzou (yes, Mizzou) stays in this conference to protect us in order to ultimately protect Texass.

[ouflak]

Honestly I'm a little disgusted by our administration. I thought that Boren was a really smart guy who saw all of the moves ahead of time, but now I feel sort of the opposite.

We have seen our 3rd-5th best members all run from this hellhole, all the while continuing to bend over for Texass. Something is really wrong when we are all here hoping and praying that Mizzou (yes, Mizzou) stays in this conference to protect us in order to ultimately protect Texass.

Not disgusted, but very disappointed. We should really be on our way to greener pastures. That we are staying is very embarrassing and beneath a program of this stature.

[BASSooner]

Stay optimistic. That could very well change next week if Mizzou has the balls to leave the conference.

[ouflak]

I just don't think Missouri wants to accept reality and acknowledge that there is no B1G invite coming, and there may never be. For OU to stay in this dawning-of-a-wasteland conference is very worrisome, especially when considering those teams that have seen the light, and bolted.

We are now in the awkward position of really having to hope that this whole LHN thing is at a minimum, moderately successful, and that Texas stays a strong team. Because if these things don't happen, come 5-6 years from now after we have finally thrown off the shackles of an irrevocable Tier 1/2 rights contract and are realistically available for a conference change, we may not be relevant enough for anybody to take interest, even if we keep winning.

[BASSooner]

I just don't think Missouri wants to accept reality and acknowledge that there is no B1G invite coming, and there may never be. For OU to stay in this dawning-of-a-wasteland conference is very worrisome, especially when considering those teams that have seen the light, and bolted.

We are now in the awkward position of really having to hope that this whole LHN thing is at a minimum, moderately successful, and that Texas stays a strong team. Because if these things don't happen, come 5-6 years from now after we have finally thrown off the shackles of an irrevocable Tier 1/2 rights contract and are realistically available for a conference change, we may not be relevant enough for anybody to take interest, even if we keep winning.

I think a lot of fans have come to terms that the B1G is out of the question. However, I think their focus right now is just finding a stable home and that is why they're REALLY considering the SEC big time.

Because if these things don't happen, come 5-6 years from now after we have finally thrown off the shackles of an irrevocable Tier 1/2 rights contract and are realistically available for a conference change, we may not be relevant enough for anybody to take interest, even if we keep winning.
That is EXACTLY what I am afraid of. Lots of people don't seem to see this at all. "We continue to be competitive and beat texas and win conference championships blah blah" Staying here is a HORRIBLE long-term investment and we will lose recognition by staying here. I'll be praying that Mizzou bolts and HOPEFULLY that will be enough for the conference to be deemed too unstable to exist.

[ouflak]

Lots of people don't seem to see this at all. "We continue to be competitive and beat Texas and win conference championships blah blah" Staying here is a HORRIBLE long-term investment and we will lose recognition by staying here.

And we aren't the only ones who should be worried. If this LHN experiment doesn't see some kind of success, and Texas doesn't go back to cranking out 10-11 win seasons, then sure, OU and Missouri will fall from grace, and fall hard. But it's Texas that's going to be breaking that fall. It's no secret whose fans of those three teams are considerably and very obviously more fair-weather than the other two, atleast when it comes to putting butts in seats.

[BASSooner]

Very true indeed. As wild as this sounds, assuming Mizzou does bolt to the SEC, I can see Boren giving Larry Scott a call and convincing him that judgement day has commenced.

[ouflak]

Very true indeed. As wild as this sounds, assuming Mizzou does bolt to the SEC, I can see Boren giving Larry Scott a call and convincing him that judgement day has commenced.

Missouri is not going anywhere. Not unless they hatch some long-term scheme to join the SEC for a little while, with the eye on the prize of moving over to the B1G within ten years of that move. No.

But let's just go hypothetical and say it did happen and Boren calls up Scott like you suggest. I don't think Scott will require any convincing. I think he will be nodding on in agreement as Boren babbles on about conference Armageddon and how the PAC must respond, so on and so forth.... And when it becomes obvious to Boren that Scott is on board with everything that he's been going on about, he'll hurriedly ask, " So we can joi...?" NOPE. ITS EITHER OU *AND* TEXAS AS A PACKAGE (even if it means tagging on a couple of little brothers), OR NOONE AT ALL. The PAC conference members have spoken and this is not negotiable. It doesn't matter what kind of happy friendly special relationship we have garnered.

What will Boren do then? Will he be able to have the vision, courage, and willingness to swallow his pride about the academics/football-conference nonsense, and lead OU to a better and obviously necessary future? I'm less confident about this now than I was just a week ago.

[PLaw]

What will Boren do then? Will he be able to have the vision, courage, and willingness to swallow his pride about the academics/football-conference nonsense, and lead OU to a better and obviously necessary future? I'm less confident about this now than I was just a week ago.

I think OU has been put between a rock and a hard place. Clearly, Boren put too much faith in Scott being able to sway PAC12 presidents to take OU without *. Now, it appears we are stuck to * like velcro.

I wonder what would have happened if Boren had stood by Nebbish in their issues with conference. What if Nebbish, Mizzue, TAMU, OU, and others formed an alliance against * and their desire to feed their greed. We may have had an 11 team conference, but we wouldn't be DeLoss's bitch. No time to cry over spilt milk - it is what it is and we need to start thinking SEC, too. PAC and B1G ain't coming our way.

BOOMER

[MeMyself&Me]

Very true indeed. As wild as this sounds, assuming Mizzou does bolt to the SEC, I can see Boren giving Larry Scott a call and convincing him that judgement day has commenced.

If like most people believe, that Scott either lied to Boren or couldn't deliver a promise or changed his mind and then didn't let Boren chose the time to make it public, I think OU to the Pac is not going to happen so long as Boren and Scott remain in their respective positions.

[ouflak]

If like most people believe, that Scott either lied to Boren or couldn't deliver a promise or changed his mind
I don't think most people believe this. Personally, I'm not sure enough people care enough to have formed such an opinion.

Lying doesn't make sense. Why would Scott lie? To give the PAC some perceived importance? To what end? They already have real importance. It certainly does no good to **** off two potential future members in OU and Texas. Is there any other reason to lie?

And why would Scott bother to 'promise' what actions 12 different university presidents are going to take? Talk about setting yourself up. I don't think he's that dumb, and he surely tested a few waters along the way while the talks between OU/TX heated up. What use would there be to make a risky promise that has the chance of going unfulfilled for several very good reasons, some of which are completely out of your control (like the LHN)?

Scott had nothing to change his mind about:

1. PAC would like to have OU and Texas join. Check.
2. Must be both though. Even willing to take lil bro's, but most be both OU and Texas, minimum.
3. OU interested. Check.
4. Texas interested. Check.
5. Texas willing to negotiate on LHN. Nope.
6. No deal.

What is their to change his mind on? Unless you are thinking Scott thought he would be able to convince everybody in the PAC to accept Texas with the LHN in tact. But that's seems so unrealistic that it borders on fantasy.

[MeMyself&Me]

I don't think most people believe this. Personally, I'm not sure enough people care enough to have formed such an opinion.

Lying doesn't make sense. Why would Scott lie? To give the PAC some perceived importance? To what end? They already have real importance. It certainly does no good to **** off two potential future members in OU and Texas. Is there any other reason to lie?

And why would Scott bother to 'promise' what actions 12 different university presidents are going to take? Talk about setting yourself up. I don't think he's that dumb, and he surely tested a few waters along the way while the talks between OU/TX heated up. What use would there be to make a risky promise that has the chance of going unfulfilled for several very good reasons, some of which are completely out your control (like the LHN)?

Scott had nothing to change his mind about:
1. PAC would like to have OU and Texas join.
2. Must be both though. Even willing to take lil bro's, but most be both OU and Texas, minimum.
3. OU interested. Check.
4. Texas interested. Check.
5. Texas willing to negotiate on LHN. Nope.
6. No deal.

What is their to change his mind on? Unless you are thinking Scott thought he would be able to convince everybody in the PAC to accept Texas with the LHN in tact. But that's seems so unrealistic that it borders on fantasy.

It's fairly obvious that Boren thought OU and OSU would be able to join the Pac with or without Texas and I doubt he came to that notion without consulting with Scott. Most articles I've read indicate OU could not have joined without Texas per the Pac's choice which would mean that Scott was either couldn't deliver or lied. In either case, it makes no sense for Scott to make a public announcement before Boren though which is why I don't believe that to be the case. I'm fairly certain that Boren chose not to go to the Pac... just don't know why.

[ouflak]

It's fairly obvious that Boren thought OU and OSU would be able to join the Pac

If Boren ever thought this, whether or not he ever talked to Scott, then he was either being blindingly unrealistic, blindingly foolish, or both. In which case he deserved the public humiliation he's gotten. If Scott thought this as well, then ditto for them both.


I'm fairly certain that Boren chose not to go to the Pac... just don't know why.
Because he did not choose. There was *never* any choice of going to the PAC without Texas and I think Boren knew that but didn't have a plan B, probably figuring he didn't need one. What I think is that he was hoping he could get Texas to back down on the LHN and work it into something the PAC would accept. More money for everybody right? And academics nonsense blah, blah, blah.... Only Texas was simply not going to alter the LHN for anybody, nor should they. This failure of insight, combined with a tunnel vision for the PAC, revealed that there is no plan B and here we are.

[delhalew]

BTW, the ATM SEC press conference tonight was sickening.

[OU Adonis]

What was said?

[NormanPride]

If Boren ever thought this, whether or not he ever talked to Scott, then he was either being blindingly unrealistic, blindingly foolish, or both. In which case he deserved the public humiliation he's gotten. If Scott thought this as well, then ditto for them both.


Because he did not choose. There was *never* any choice of going to the PAC without Texas and I think Boren knew that but didn't have a plan B, probably figuring he didn't need one. What I think is that he was hoping he could get Texas to back down on the LHN and work it into something the PAC would accept. More money for everybody right? And academics nonsense blah, blah, blah.... Only Texas was simply not going to alter the LHN for anybody, nor should they. This failure of insight, combined with a tunnel vision for the PAC, revealed that there is no plan B and here we are.

I don't know what makes you think Boren would say the things he did without heavy evidence that he had inroads to the Pac-12. He's a former senator and head of the intelligence committee. He's not an idiot that just goes out and says crap with no evidence. What you seem to be implying is that he KNEW he had no way of getting into the Pac-12 and still bluffed like he did. That's just silly.

[delhalew]

What was said? The best conference in the land...about a hundred times. Equal sharing...several times. Lots of ra ra ra.

Bye Aggie. Don't let the door hit you in the arse.

[ouflak]

What you seem to be implying is that he KNEW he had no way of getting into the Pac-12 and still bluffed like he did. That's just silly.Nope. What I'm implying, well actually outright stating, is that he knew he had no way of getting into the PAC without Texas going along too. But he thought, and made a rather public bet, that Texas would negotiate the LHN to something that the PAC would be able to find acceptable, especially since the money involved for everyone interested was pretty darn good.

1. Boren did not have enough insight to realize that UT had no intention of changing the LHN in anyway for anyone.

2. He put all his eggs in the PAC basket, and worse, did so on the ridiculous notion that academics has anything to do with what conference a school's football team plays in.

Because of these two mistakes, we don't appear to have any backup plan except to become a UT toady just like the rest of the Big XII leftovers/rejects. And we've also gotten the pleasure of watching team after team pull out of this dawning-on-irrelevant conference and go off to greener pastures money-wise and competition-wise. Further, we seem to be seriously entertaining the idea of locking ourselves down into this sinkhole.

[NormanPride]

I just don't believe any of that, sorry. It is easier to believe that Scott lied to us (something that has been done before to other members) than to believe Boren didn't do his due diligence. I can accept that he thought Texas might restructure or that the Pac 12 would take them regardless, but I have to believe he was told that OU and OSU were in regardless.

[ouflak]

but I have to believe he was told (by Scott) that OU and OSU were in regardless.

But this doesn't make any sense. The whole point of all of this conference re-alignment nonsense is increase television sets and get footholds in high-profile high-population markets. OSU is out on this point. Period. There is just no logical case for taking just OU/OSU. To increase your footprint in Tulsa maybe? OU sure! OU by itself, maybe, if they can find a team to balance things out and contribute TV sets and exposure, especially in OU's region. But OU/OSU? I'd love to see the logical serious of thoughts you think Scott would have to pose this as a serious possibility.

And lying? What on earth would Scott gain by lying to Boren? Embarrass a big-name, potentially big-money future conference member? Mission accomplished I guess if that was his sole goal. But why the heck would he do this? Why should he lie? It just doesn't make any sense.

[NormanPride]

But this doesn't make any sense. The whole point of all of this conference re-alignment nonsense is increase television sets and get footholds in high-profile high-population markets. OSU is out on this point. Period. There is just no logical case for taking just OU/OSU. To increase your footprint in Tulsa maybe? OU sure! OU by itself, maybe, if they can find a team to balance things out and contribute TV sets and exposure, especially in OU's region. But OU/OSU? I'd love to see the logical serious of thoughts you think Scott would have to pose this as a serious possibility.

And lying? What on earth would Scott gain by lying to Boren? Embarrass a big-name, potentially big-money future conference member? Mission accomplished I guess if that was his sole goal. But why the heck would he do this? Why should he lie? It just doesn't make any sense.

You're right, it doesn't make sense. But that's been his MO according to a few different sources. It's not necessarily that he wants to embarrass people, but he's too inept to contact his member presidents before making promises.

And as for them wanting OU and OSU, I believe the logic was that taking OSU was worth it to get OSU. Much like potentially taking Tceh was worth it to get Texas.

Not saying it's smart, but that was the word out of the Pac 12 for the longest time.

[delhalew]

Oklahoma is a good get in the same way Nebraska is a good get. We don't have a staggering amount of tvs in state, but we are CFB royalty, and that is were the tv money comes from.

[jkjsooner]

The best conference in the land...about a hundred times. Equal sharing...several times. Lots of ra ra ra.

Bye Aggie. Don't let the door hit you in the arse.

You missed the constant "woooot wooooot" from the crowd. I've heard they were a strange/brainwashed bunch but that just takes the cake. I imagine SEC fans listening to the press conference were thinking WTF?

[bowfin]

We don't have a staggering amount of tvs in state

Don't fall for that Texas line of B.S.!

How many Texas TV sets did Oklahoma own when they played Missouri?? LOTS!!! Wherever a good team goes, they bring TV sets, whether it is 500,000 in Oklahoma rooting for you, or 10,000,000 in Texas rooting against you. Good football = lots of TV sets.

[jkjsooner]

And lying? What on earth would Scott gain by lying to Boren? Embarrass a big-name, potentially big-money future conference member? Mission accomplished I guess if that was his sole goal. But why the heck would he do this? Why should he lie? It just doesn't make any sense.

Maybe he was playing OU as a bluff to Texas. If he makes Texas believe that the PAC 12 would take OU/OSU without Texas, then Texas might have no choice but to give in and join the PAC 12 without special treatment. (Texas doesn't want to be left in the Big 12 without OU. It might work for a year or two but it is not in Texas's best interest.) Maybe Texas called the Scott's bluff and Scott (who was either using OU or OU was in on this bluff) had no choice but to back down.

[ouflak]

Don't fall for that Texas line of B.S.!

How many Texas TV sets did Oklahoma own when they played Missouri?? LOTS!!! Wherever a good team goes, they bring TV sets, whether it is 500,000 in Oklahoma rooting for you, or 10,000,000 in Texas rooting against you. Good football = lots of TV sets.
Yep. Texas will say anything and everything it can to convince OU and its fans that we don't bring enough to any table to leave the Big XII. Keep this in mind guys.

[soonervegas]

OU is very marketable, unfortunately we have painted ourselves into a corner:

SEC - not without OSU/inferior academics
PAC 12 - not without OSU and Texas (which I actually agree with)
Big 10 - I really do think they would listen minus OSU

We have gotten everything we deserve though. When Nebraska started getting antsy last year we should have played peacemaker. Instead, we let UT and Bebee give them the middle finger.

[Sco]

Don't fall for that Texas line of B.S.!

How many Texas TV sets did Oklahoma own when they played Missouri?? LOTS!!! Wherever a good team goes, they bring TV sets, whether it is 500,000 in Oklahoma rooting for you, or 10,000,000 in Texas rooting against you. Good football = lots of TV sets.

Not to mention what a lot of people seem to neglect - Dallas is a huge part of OU's television footprint. There are plenty of loyal Sooner fans in the metroplex like me. Since all the metroplex has is SMU (gag) and TCU (less gag), the city is pretty much split between OU, UT, A&M, and Tech.

[delhalew]

Don't fall for that Texas line of B.S.!

How many Texas TV sets did Oklahoma own when they played Missouri?? LOTS!!! Wherever a good team goes, they bring TV sets, whether it is 500,000 in Oklahoma rooting for you, or 10,000,000 in Texas rooting against you. Good football = lots of TV sets.

Preaching to the choir, bro. I am well aware of our presence in Texas.

The problem is being shackled to the pokes. Team on the rise or not, they offer very little.

[Lawton4Life]

You missed the constant "woooot wooooot" from the crowd. I've heard they were a strange/brainwashed bunch but that just takes the cake. I imagine SEC fans listening to the press conference were thinking WTF?

Its WHOOP! and yes they are insane.

[BASSooner]

Don't fall for that Texas line of B.S.!

How many Texas TV sets did Oklahoma own when they played Missouri?? LOTS!!! Wherever a good team goes, they bring TV sets, whether it is 500,000 in Oklahoma rooting for you, or 10,000,000 in Texas rooting against you. Good football = lots of TV sets.
^THIS

Want to know our TV markets? Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Fort Worth, and Dallas.

add thousands upon thousands in Texas rooting for us.

[OULenexaman]

I just hate to see us as the last ones on the Titanic....we could have already been in our life boat but instead we are still running around on the ship looking for love and calling out for Rose.:mad:

[SicEmBaylor]

I just hate to see us as the last ones on the Titanic....we could have already been in our life boat but instead we are still running around on the ship looking for love and calling out for Rose.:mad:

Trust me, OU is not going to lose a seat on the lifeboats. OU is up in first class with the Astor's and the chubby chick with the good boobs. Baylor is down in steerage with f'n DiCaprio and his marry band of lice-infested micks.

No, OU will have a seat on the boat. We're the ones going down with the ship.

[Sooner98]

http://deepintoscripture.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Titanic-Winslet-Dicaprio_l.jpg

WE'LL NEVER LET GO, BIG 12...WE'LL NEVER LET GO

[saucysoonergal]

Heh, Baylor is Steerage!!! ;)

[badger]

I wonder if Boren and Mizzou are working together to get Texas to shape up, since it is now Mizzou that holds a golden ticket outta the Big 12.

If Miz leaves, I don't care who comes with us or not, I want outta the Big 12, even if the destination is MWC.

[LASooner]

OU is up in first class with the Astor's

Astor died. You suck at comforting.

:)

[sperry]

Trust me, OU is not going to lose a seat on the lifeboats. OU is up in first class with the Astor's and the chubby chick with the good boobs. Baylor is down in steerage with f'n DiCaprio and his marry band of lice-infested micks.

No, OU will have a seat on the boat. We're the ones going down with the ship.


You would think so, but where does OU go?

[delhalew]

You would think so, but where does OU go?

Depends. Do we still have a big, dayglow Orange mole on our forehead?

[LiveLaughLove]

I just don't believe any of that, sorry. It is easier to believe that Scott lied to us (something that has been done before to other members) than to believe Boren didn't do his due diligence. I can accept that he thought Texas might restructure or that the Pac 12 would take them regardless, but I have to believe he was told that OU and OSU were in regardless.

Why? Is Boren infallible?

I think it's very possible that Scott dangled OU out there to entice Texas to join.

Boren simply had to do HIS due diligence and personally call the PAC presidents and poll them to find out where we stood.

If he simply listened to Scott alone, then he borders on incompetence in this matter.

[SicEmBaylor]

You would think so, but where does OU go?
You're going to have to push OSU out of the way to get to that lifeboat. It's every man, woman, and child for themselves.

[sperry]

You're going to have to push OSU out of the way to get to that lifeboat. It's every man, woman, and child for themselves.


I don't know how the political dynamics work, but I know if the OSU people in the state legislature are anything like normal OSU fans, they would gladly take OU down with them rather than let OU succeed and the Pokes get screwed.

[champions77]

I just love the Boren apologists that post on this board. Hardly could anyone mess things up as bad as Boren has. You think things are bad now, wait until MIZZOU leaves for the SEC. But then there are morons like Al Eschback that thinks that we can just reach out and pull in a BYU, or Louisville or West Virginia. Now why would a respectable program jump aboard the titanic, I mean the BIG XII? Think they could sell that move to their Board of Regents?

Mizzou has been positioning themselves for the SEC for some time now. When it became evident that Boren was focusing all of his attention on the PAC 12 (regardless of the fact that Boren publicly stated he was looking at all options) Mizzou, having been embarassingly left behind by the Big 10, began making sure they didn't get left behind again. They in essence, are taking OU's place in the SEC. OU did get an SEC invite in May 2010.

So if the Tigers do leave for the SEC (50/50 chance) where does that put OU? Stay in the BIG XII and scramble for teams that 1) would consider coming to the Big XII (many would not) and put up with texas's crap or 2) Beg our way into the SEC, which after the Boren insults about inferior academics, (even though six SEC teams are ranked above OU academically according to the US News and World Report 2012 Edition) and, the perceived corruption of the SEC, even though OU just came off probation recently, may not be an option at all. As they say, that train may have left the station.

Lastly, Boren has indicated time an time again, that he was going to do what was in the best interest of the University of Oklahoma, while in the next breath, stating that whatever we do, we will do with osu? Really? Another really stupid thing to say. So any opportunity that we have, that osu will automatically have that same opportunity? It may very well turn out that the vey best conference, the SEC will still want OU...but would not want osu. Down the road, that same thing could be said for the PAC 12. So what does OU do, renege on a vow that Boren has stated time and time again, and really do what is in the best interest of OU, or turn down and opportunity because osu is not invited too? What would our esteemed President do? I'm afraid I know.

[bowfin]

We'll trade the Big XII any chance at Notre Dame for Oklahoma.

But you'd have to promise the Big 10 exclusive rights to a Switzer reality TV show

[BASSooner]

interesting...

@BryanDFischer
Bryan Fischer
RT @wilnerhotline: B12 bracing for Mizzou to leave, considering a plan to add 4 schools: BYU, Boise, WVU and Ville.

[Sooner1972]

I just love the Boren apologists that post on this board. Hardly could anyone mess things up as bad as Boren has. You think things are bad now, wait until MIZZOU leaves for the SEC. But then there are morons like Al Eschback that thinks that we can just reach out and pull in a BYU, or Louisville or West Virginia. Now why would a respectable program jump aboard the titanic, I mean the BIG XII? Think they could sell that move to their Board of Regents?

Mizzou has been positioning themselves for the SEC for some time now. When it became evident that Boren was focusing all of his attention on the PAC 12 (regardless of the fact that Boren publicly stated he was looking at all options) Mizzou, having been embarassingly left behind by the Big 10, began making sure they didn't get left behind again. They in essence, are taking OU's place in the SEC. OU did get an SEC invite in May 2010.

So if the Tigers do leave for the SEC (50/50 chance) where does that put OU? Stay in the BIG XII and scramble for teams that 1) would consider coming to the Big XII (many would not) and put up with texas's crap or 2) Beg our way into the SEC, which after the Boren insults about inferior academics, (even though six SEC teams are ranked above OU academically according to the US News and World Report 2012 Edition) and, the perceived corruption of the SEC, even though OU just came off probation recently, may not be an option at all. As they say, that train may have left the station.

Lastly, Boren has indicated time an time again, that he was going to do what was in the best interest of the University of Oklahoma, while in the next breath, stating that whatever we do, we will do with osu? Really? Another really stupid thing to say. So any opportunity that we have, that osu will automatically have that same opportunity? It may very well turn out that the vey best conference, the SEC will still want OU...but would not want osu. Down the road, that same thing could be said for the PAC 12. So what does OU do, renege on a vow that Boren has stated time and time again, and really do what is in the best interest of OU, or turn down and opportunity because osu is not invited too? What would our esteemed President do? I'm afraid I know.

This post is so well thought out and written, and states everything that I feel (with some extra valid points made) but would never be able to express as well as you have. Why OU fans are giving Boren such a pass in all of this is completely beyond me. He has burned bridges, missed opportunities to better gauge our options, miscalculated public perception, negotiated atrociously, and basically hung us out to dry at this point. Almost every move that he has made in the last couple of months that I've been made aware of I strongly disagree with.

[BASSooner]

This post is so well thought out and written, and states everything that I feel (with some extra valid points made) but would never be able to express as well as you have. Why OU fans are giving Boren such a pass in all of this is completely beyond me. He has burned bridges, missed opportunities to better gauge our options, miscalculated public perception, negotiated atrociously, and basically hung us out to dry at this point. Almost every move that he has made in the last couple of months that I've been made aware of I strongly disagree with.
Agreed 100%

Believe it or not, TONS of missouri fans are playing a role in their conference realignment options. They REALLY REALLY REALLY want out. I'm a recent alum and talked to several people and friends who just think that it's just one big whatever and it shocks me.. However, I have some close friends who are INFURIATED about the situation that we are in. I'm fixin to e-mail Boren and express my concern about the university. Believe it or not, if TONS of alumni and students mass e-mail Boren and express their concern, that may play a role in where we go in OUr direction just a tad. As crazy as that sounds, it might just work. Check out Mizzery

[dennis580]

If like most people believe, that Scott either lied to Boren or couldn't deliver a promise or changed his mind and then didn't let Boren chose the time to make it public, I think OU to the Pac is not going to happen so long as Boren and Scott remain in their respective positions.

There is no doubt that the Pac 12 would take OU by itself, buts it been made clear to us that they will not take a OU/OSU package deal. So as long as OU is tied to OSU are options are going to be limited.

[OrlandoSooner]

Am I the only one that thinks the Big 12 at 9 teams, or 8 if Missouri leaves, is better of than they would be at 12. If the 4 additions were BYU, Louisville (Papa's in the house!) WVU and Houston wouldn't that be subtraction by addition? It would still be OU and Texas with the dwarfs. Would we really be better with the 10 dwarfs than we would with 5/6 dwarfs?

What is the national perception of the following programs?
Iowa St
KSU
Baylor (sorry sic em)
Louisville
Houston
Etc.

Wouldn't we be better off having fewer of the "also rans" in our conference? I don't see the value in adding Louisville, Morgantown and the 3 Houston fans from Houston to our conference.

[OklahomaTuba]

Good God, Surely Boren knows that tying ourselves to osu like this amounts to trying to get your retarded drooling cousin that just shat himself into the hottest trendy nightclub. It just isn't going to happen.

[trey]

I just love the Boren apologists that post on this board. Hardly could anyone mess things up as bad as Boren has. You think things are bad now, wait until MIZZOU leaves for the SEC. But then there are morons like Al Eschback that thinks that we can just reach out and pull in a BYU, or Louisville or West Virginia. Now why would a respectable program jump aboard the titanic, I mean the BIG XII? Think they could sell that move to their Board of Regents?

Mizzou has been positioning themselves for the SEC for some time now. When it became evident that Boren was focusing all of his attention on the PAC 12 (regardless of the fact that Boren publicly stated he was looking at all options) Mizzou, having been embarassingly left behind by the Big 10, began making sure they didn't get left behind again. They in essence, are taking OU's place in the SEC. OU did get an SEC invite in May 2010.

So if the Tigers do leave for the SEC (50/50 chance) where does that put OU? Stay in the BIG XII and scramble for teams that 1) would consider coming to the Big XII (many would not) and put up with texas's crap or 2) Beg our way into the SEC, which after the Boren insults about inferior academics, (even though six SEC teams are ranked above OU academically according to the US News and World Report 2012 Edition) and, the perceived corruption of the SEC, even though OU just came off probation recently, may not be an option at all. As they say, that train may have left the station.

Lastly, Boren has indicated time an time again, that he was going to do what was in the best interest of the University of Oklahoma, while in the next breath, stating that whatever we do, we will do with osu? Really? Another really stupid thing to say. So any opportunity that we have, that osu will automatically have that same opportunity? It may very well turn out that the vey best conference, the SEC will still want OU...but would not want osu. Down the road, that same thing could be said for the PAC 12. So what does OU do, renege on a vow that Boren has stated time and time again, and really do what is in the best interest of OU, or turn down and opportunity because osu is not invited too? What would our esteemed President do? I'm afraid I know.

Excellent post. I feel the exact same way.

[soonerboomer93]

Am I the only one that thinks the Big 12 at 9 teams, or 8 if Missouri leaves, is better of than they would be at 12. If the 4 additions were BYU, Louisville (Papa's in the house!) WVU and Houston wouldn't that be subtraction by addition? It would still be OU and Texas with the dwarfs. Would we really be better with the 10 dwarfs than we would with 5/6 dwarfs?

What is the national perception of the following programs?
Iowa St
KSU
Baylor (sorry sic em)
Louisville
Houston
Etc.

Wouldn't we be better off having fewer of the "also rans" in our conference? I don't see the value in adding Louisville, Morgantown and the 3 Houston fans from Houston to our conference.

So basically we'd be the big 8, but traded Nebraska, Colorado and Mizzou for UT, Tech and Baylor?

**** that noise

[NormanPride]

We need to give OSU the finger and try for the Big 10.

[Lott's Bandana]

Missouri is going to stay.

BigXII will add one team that is willing to deal with the drama to get into an AQ conference.

We will all continue to loathe whorn and all the shilt they pull and the BigXII will continue to be them in the minds of the media.

Envy for Nebbish and aTm will be a constant, but we'll never leave because the suits all glad-hand each other and don't react and feel the same way the fans do.



Whatever was intolerable before will only get worse.



I wish I didn't feel this way, but at this point, I do.

[jkjsooner]

There is no doubt that the Pac 12 would take OU by itself, buts it been made clear to us that they will not take a OU/OSU package deal. So as long as OU is tied to OSU are options are going to be limited.

I keep hearing this but I see no evidence to support this statement. It's easy to assume we're a hot commodity but there is a chance that the PAC 12 simply does not want us - with or without OSU.

We know the Big 10 has no desire for us due to academic considerations. I believe that is true even if they were presented with an OU/TX combination. It's very possible the PAC 12 holds the same opinion (not necessarily for academic reasons since they did take Utah but more for logistical reasons).

[NormanPride]

Saying the Big 10 doesn't want us due to academic concerns is silly. They took Nebraska.

[deweydw]

All this conference realignment and super conference talk, reminds me of the USFL. Teams kept merging with other teams until there were none left. Who know's, maybe years down the road there will only be 4 huge conferences left. Just sayin...

[jkjsooner]

Saying the Big 10 doesn't want us due to academic concerns is silly. They took Nebraska.

Nebraska was an AAU member when the Big 10 accepted them.

"All the Big Ten schools are AAU members," Nebraska Chancellor Harvey Perlman said. "I doubt that our application would've been accepted had we not been a member of the organization."

I bet he'd like to take back that statement now that they lost AAU membership. Nevertheless, it has been widely viewed that AAU membership is a prerequisite. The NU chancellor stating this just gives more weight to it.

[NormanPride]

In name only because they helped found it. They are no longer, and probably won't be one any time soon. Our academics are just fine, and if we made an attempt to join the Big 10 I have full confidence we would either be accepted, or be given a list of attainable goals to reach before we were.

[FtwTxSooner]

Until we have an invitation in hand, it would be a mistake to think we can go anywhere at the drop of the hat. Conferences aren't just making a decision on who to select based upon the quality of the football program. And as we've seen, that isn't big enough to overcome additional obsticles that we can't control (logistics, TV markets), or are unwilling to control (OSU).

[OrlandoSooner]

So basically we'd be the big 8, but traded Nebraska, Colorado and Mizzou for UT, Tech and Baylor?

**** that noise

That is where we are right now/will be when Mizzou bolts. Is the conference that much more attractive with BYU, Louisville and TCU/Houston/Boise/Cinci etc? I think these 4 weigh down the overall Big 12 perception.

[sperry]

The more I think about it, the worse the Big 8 looks. OU and Texas are the only real programs in the conference. Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St., OSU, Tech, and Baylor are historically terrible football programs. OSU is good right now, but what's going to happen when they lose a kid who's one of the best receivers in NCAA history and their grown man quarterback playing against kids. Baylor is decent now, but it's not often that they're going to have a top 5 player in the country at QB on their team. Tech sucks. ISU sucks. Kansas sucks. Kansas St. sucks. All the programs that we're considering adding suck. OU needs to get out.

[sperry]

That is where we are right now/will be when Mizzou bolts. Is the conference that much more attractive with BYU, Louisville and TCU/Houston/Boise/Cinci etc? I think these 4 weigh down the overall Big 12 perception.


The Big XII perception will already suck, and adding Boise will definitely help. Plus, having a conference championship game is something we're going to need. It's going to hurt down the line when every other conference is playing a marquee game a week after we're done. We're going to have to move OU-Texas to the weekend of conference championship games if we don't expand.

[NormanPride]

Adding Boise will not help. What do they bring once they start getting their butts handed to them regularly in conference play? Their academics are a joke and everything other than football is almost non-existent.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Why? Is Boren infallible?

I think it's very possible that Scott dangled OU out there to entice Texas to join.

Boren simply had to do HIS due diligence and personally call the PAC presidents and poll them to find out where we stood.

If he simply listened to Scott alone, then he borders on incompetence in this matter.

Aw, come now. Haven't you heard? Boren's a master politician! Surely, he knew to canvass the Pac-12 presidents before running off with the mouth. Surely. He was a U.S. Senator, for crying out loud! He had every angle covered...and, according to him - after the fact - even rejection!

[sperry]

Adding Boise will not help. What do they bring once they start getting their butts handed to them regularly in conference play? Their academics are a joke and everything other than football is almost non-existent.


In the SEC, they get their butts handed to them. In the Big 8, they lose to OU and Texas, and probably beat everyone else, including the programs we're considering adding. Their academics do suck, but non-football sports aren't even a consideration in the conversation I don't think.

[jkjsooner]

In the SEC, they get their butts handed to them.

By a few teams... Let's not fall into the trap thinking that every SEC team is a world beater.

Boise already beat Georgia. They would easily beat Vandy, Kentucky, or Ole Miss. They would probably beat MSU and Tennessee. Considering the crappy games South Carolina and Auburn have played I'd put them to be favored over these two.

That's at least 8 of the 12 teams that they would be favored to beat.


This is the crap I hate. The SEC has plenty of mediocre teams. They might, as a whole, be better than the Big 12's mediocre teams but they're still very mediocre.

[jkjsooner]

In name only because they helped found it. They are no longer, and probably won't be one any time soon. Our academics are just fine, and if we made an attempt to join the Big 10 I have full confidence we would either be accepted, or be given a list of attainable goals to reach before we were.

I don't disagree but according to everything I've read AAU membership is very important to the Big 10. Whether NU should have been an AAU member is a side issue. They were when the Big 10 accepted them.

Membership in the Big 10 includes a lot more than athletic ties. This is more true for the Big 10 than most athletic conferences.

[badger]

I don't disagree but according to everything I've read AAU membership is very important to the Big 10.

Wasn't important when they've been begging Notre Domer all this time :D

We're on the verge of AAU membership. Boren probably won't retire till he sees that goal through.

[silverwheels]

Notre Dame is the exception, not the rule. No other school has the kind of national fanbase they do, and they're still ranked pretty high academically.

[champions77]

Wasn't important when they've been begging Notre Domer all this time :D

We're on the verge of AAU membership. Boren probably won't retire till he sees that goal through.

On the "verge"? I have never ever seen where Boren has indicated a desire to be admitted to the American Association of Universities, not once. Former President Bill Banowsky did so on many occasions however.

I would be interested in how close we are to being accepted though. I see some on that list that I certainly wouldn't consider bastions of academia.

[Lott's Bandana]

Someone posted earlier that Nebbish lost their AAU status because of a Med School that was located in another town than the main campus. That would eliminate OU certainly.

[MeMyself&Me]

ChuckCarltonDMN Chuck Carlton
Big 12's Chuck Neinas, after talking Saturday about opposition to league expansion in Texas, indicated today that sentiment had changed.

****.

[3rdgensooner]

^^Boo

[soonervegas]

SWC 2: Electric Boonegaloo

[sperry]

By a few teams... Let's not fall into the trap thinking that every SEC team is a world beater.

Boise already beat Georgia. They would easily beat Vandy, Kentucky, or Ole Miss. They would probably beat MSU and Tennessee. Considering the crappy games South Carolina and Auburn have played I'd put them to be favored over these two.

That's at least 8 of the 12 teams that they would be favored to beat.


This is the crap I hate. The SEC has plenty of mediocre teams. They might, as a whole, be better than the Big 12's mediocre teams but they're still very mediocre.


Alabama, Auburn, Florida, LSU, Georgia, and Tennessee are all historically strong programs. Tenn and Georgia are down now, but they will be back at some point. South Carolina has a hall of fame coach, and will likely be strong as long as he is there, and Arkansas has always been decent. Kentucky, Vandy, and the Mississippi schools are admittedly miserable programs. In the Big 8, OU and Texas are the only historically strong programs. The rest are pure garbage. OSU is strong now, but I have no faith that they are going to keep that up. You might hate the SEC, but that doesn't change the fact that they are so much deeper than the Big 8.

[8timechamps]

After a few days to think about it, and to read more on last week's happening with the PAC, I've drawn the conclusion that the PAC was willing to take us and Texas (and TT/OSU) IF Texas made concessions with their network. At which point, Texas said "Not just NO, but HELL NO!". I'm not so sure the PAC would ever have taken us without Texas.

The bottom line is, we aren't in the PAC. Who knows what really happened, as none of us were there. Some are upset that Boren embarrassed us, and some don't think Boren did anything wrong. It doesn't really matter at this point, because it's like arguing the Bush/Gore election results in Florida...it's a waste of time.

At this point, I do think Missouri is leaving...why wouldn't they? So how will the Big XII respond? I don't think staying at 8 teams is gonna cut it.

[BASSooner]

This just in: Deaton out of expansion committee

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/9/28/2456836/big-12-expansion-committee-missouri-chancellor-kansas-stat

[Soonerman82]

I really wish OU would leave this peice of crap of a conference.

[silverwheels]

I really wish OU would leave this peice of crap of a conference.

We don't really have anywhere to go for the time being.

[Plexis22]

We don't really have anywhere to go for the time being.

Yes we do. The SEC would take OU over Missouri. Boren doesn't want it to happen though.

[silverwheels]

Which means we don't have anywhere to go. SEC wouldn't take OSU as well, so it's a no-go for OU.

[SoonerMom2]

Actually someone withdrew agriculture funding from the list of sources which is what got them tossed off. There are several schools without medical schools on their campus. In fact, I don't think UT has one on campus. Their big medical school I believe is in Houston. All we had was what NE had to say.

[Whet]

Something to consider for the B1G. According to their website: "All Big Ten Universities have been granted Tier One Status by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, a distinction awarded to just over 100 universities in the country."

According to the Carnegie site:
OU is also a Tier One university, on par with Univ Michigan, Mich St. Univ, Northwestern, Ohio State Univ, Stanford, Duke, Purdue
OSU is on par with Baylor, BYU, Rutgers, Boston College

[BASSooner]

Matt_HayesSN Matt Hayes
It's a done deal now. Mizz/SEC RT @NYDNDickWeiss: missouri chairman brady deaton no longer chair of big 12 expansion committee.

[AlboSooner]

Yes we do. The SEC would take OU over Missouri. Boren doesn't want it to happen though.

I don't know why Boren doesn't want SEC. The only reason I can logically conclude is that Boren wants OU to join AAU, and it becomes more difficult by joining SEC since most AAU members are either Big 10 or Pac 12.

The SEC is better academically than the Big 12. OU would be ranked top 8-9 in the SEC academically. It is not too hard to win NC in the SEC. Teams have done it with undefeated teams, and even two-loss teams. Saban won two, Meyer won two, Miles and Chizik each have won one. The Big 12 despite being "easier" has only won two.

There is cheating everywhere in college football, and Boren's dream, PAC 12 has been as dirty as they come.

How does joining a conference with Cal or Stanford make OU academics better? Has it made ASU better? Has it made Arizona or Wazzu better? If I am overweight, do I lose weight just by hanging out with supermodels? Boren has done a great job improving OU academics, because OU started working hard to improve academics. I don't think AAU membership is worth placing the football program in weak conference, tied to the hip to an A&M college, and inferior to a Texas university.

This conference realignment issue risks of transforming Boren from one of the best OU presidents, to one of the worst.

[delhalew]

I don't know why Boren doesn't want SEC. The only reason I can logically conclude is that Boren wants OU to join AAU, and it becomes more difficult by joining SEC since most AAU members are either Big 10 or Pac 12.

The SEC is better academically than the Big 12. OU would be ranked top 8-9 in the SEC academically. It is not too hard to win NC in the SEC. Teams have done it with undefeated teams, and even two-loss teams. Saban won two, Meyer won two, Miles and Chizik each have won one. The Big 12 despite being "easier" has only won two.

There is cheating everywhere in college football, and Boren's dream, PAC 12 has been as dirty as they come.

How does joining a conference with Cal or Stanford make OU academics better? Has it made ASU better? Has it made Arizona or Wazzu better? If I am overweight, do I lose weight just by hanging out with supermodels? Boren has done a great job improving OU academics, because OU started working hard to improve academics. I don't think AAU membership is worth placing the football program in weak conference, tied to the hip to an A&M college, and inferior to a Texas university.

This conference realignment issue risks of transforming Boren from one of the best OU presidents, to one of the worst.
I agree on all of those points.

[Boomer.....]

If Mizzou leaves, this conference should dissolve or merge with the Big East. I wish we could just pack up and go but aggy is making it hard to find a new home.

[NormanPride]

Matt_HayesSN Matt Hayes
It's a done deal now. Mizz/SEC RT @NYDNDickWeiss: missouri chairman brady deaton no longer chair of big 12 expansion committee.

You know, that tweet would still be there had you gone to sleep at a normal time. ;)

[ouflak]

I just wonder if Boren realizes that his actions over the last year and in the coming weeks will define his tenure. If OU ends up a mediocre team, with respect to teams in relevant conferences, in a mediocre conference, and never crawls out of that fixture, all the success he's had raising record amounts of money for the university's buildings, research, infrastructure, and general education will be forgotten. He'll only be known as the man who is responsible for consigning OU football to the dusty shelves of football history. Perhaps he has lost perspective?

[Lott's Bandana]

Matt_HayesSN Matt Hayes
It's a done deal now. Mizz/SEC RT @NYDNDickWeiss: missouri chairman brady deaton no longer chair of big 12 expansion committee.


Deaton never was the chair of the expansion committee, he has been chair of the presidents/chancellors. The KSU guy is chair of the expansion committee.


I like Matt Hayes, somewhat. But this crap is why the journalists bear responsibility in all this chaos, and is also why the AP poll sucks hind root.

[Lott's Bandana]

I just wonder if Boren realizes that his actions over the last year and in the coming weeks will define his tenure. If OU ends up a mediocre team, with respect to teams in relevant conferences, in a mediocre conference, and never crawls out of that fixture, all the success he's had raising record amounts of money for the university's buildings, research, infrastructure, and general education will be forgotten. He'll only be known as the man who is responsible for consigning OU football to the dusty shelves of football history. Perhaps he has lost perspective?


This.

But only to the football fan.

To the rest of academia and others, his legacy will hold up just fine.

[ouflak]

This.

But only to the football fan.

To the rest of academia and others, his legacy will hold up just fine.

Ofcourse it will and it should. Academia has nothing to do with what conference a football team plays in. When Boren is at a party full of people in the world or research grants, endowments, and academia, and blurts out something like, "You know I'm thinking of moving the football team to a more academic conference like the PAC", I'm curious as to how many puzzled, blank stares he gets in response. People around him wondering, "What **** is this guy talking about?"

[jkjsooner]

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, LSU, Georgia, and Tennessee are all historically strong programs. Tenn and Georgia are down now, but they will be back at some point. South Carolina has a hall of fame coach, and will likely be strong as long as he is there, and Arkansas has always been decent. Kentucky, Vandy, and the Mississippi schools are admittedly miserable programs. In the Big 8, OU and Texas are the only historically strong programs. The rest are pure garbage. OSU is strong now, but I have no faith that they are going to keep that up. You might hate the SEC, but that doesn't change the fact that they are so much deeper than the Big 8.

You just said a bunch of crap that had nothing to do with my post. It was stated that BSU would get their butt beat (or something like that) in the SEC. I pointed out that they would be favored over approx 2/3 of that conference. Depending on how the schedule matched up, BSU would probably lose 2-3 games in the SEC. I wouldn't call that a whipping by any stretch of imagination.

[champions77]

This in 2025;

"Is it really true Grandpa that the Sooners could have been in the SEC, but turned it down to stay in a lousy Conference?" "Grandpa do you think OU will ever get out of the Sunbelt Conference?"

A "Conference" implies that there are schools that all possess equal power and authority. As long as the University of Texas demands, and receives benefits not available to other members, we will not have a Conference, but a regime. And that will not change as long as either Texas remains...or others flee.

[dennis580]

[QUOTE=OrlandoSooner;3356243]Am I the only one that thinks the Big 12 at 9 teams, or 8 if Missouri leaves, is better of than they would be at 12. If the 4 additions were BYU, Louisville (Papa's in the house!) WVU and Houston wouldn't that be subtraction by addition? It would still be OU and Texas with the dwarfs. Would we really be better with the 10 dwarfs than we would with 5/6 dwarfs?

With the other 4 major conferences(SEC, Big Ten, Pac 12, ACC) having at LEAST 12 memebers the Big 12 MUST to get back to 12 members.

Also as far as BYU, and West Virginia go there is a LOT of value in those schools. Though after those two there is a drop off.

[dennis580]

"The Big XII perception will already suck, and adding Boise will definitely help. Plus, having a conference championship game is something we're going to need."

Yeap if we don't go to 12 teams I can just about gaurantee that a Big 12 team will get left out of the NC game because of it. Having a 13th game against a good opponent can make all the difference, and of the 5 major conferences(Big East is not a major conference) we would be the only one not to have one.

Simply put the SEC, Pac 12, Big Ten, and ACC can not all have a conferenc hampionship game, and the Big 12 not have one.

Also it would once again bring a lot instability if the SEC, Pac 12, Big Ten. and ACC expand to 16 teams, and would leave us as a second tear conference.

The Big 12 simply must get back to at least 12 teams.

[sperry]

You just said a bunch of crap that had nothing to do with my post. It was stated that BSU would get their butt beat (or something like that) in the SEC. I pointed out that they would be favored over approx 2/3 of that conference. Depending on how the schedule matched up, BSU would probably lose 2-3 games in the SEC. I wouldn't call that a whipping by any stretch of imagination.

Actually I was responding to points you made criticizing the SEC in your original post, about how the SEC is full of mediocre teams.

[jkjsooner]

Ofcourse it will and it should. Academia has nothing to do with what conference a football team plays in.

You keep saying that but it simply is not true. In some conference, yes, this statement is more or less true. In the Big 10 (for example) this is absolutely not true.

Just from a quick search on their website:


The Committee on Institutional Cooperation is a consortium featuring all 12 Big Ten universities and the University of Chicago that has generated unique opportunities for students and faculty by sharing expertise, leveraging resources and collaborating on programs.

By joining the Big 10, Nebraska apparently got ful membership in this consortium. I suspect the PAC 12 institutions have similar academic ties.


There's also perception and as we know perception is reality. So many OU to SEC supporters have pointed out the number of SEC schools that are ranked higher than OU. The fact that this has to be pointed out sorta makes the point. A very good school like Florida has to fight the stereotype of being in the SEC instead of the PAC 10 / ACC / Big 10. (Vandy of course is the exception.)


And to address those who think that OU has stated that it is better academically than the SEC, this is simply not true. OU's actions really don't say anything about how we compare with the SEC or PAC 12. These actions only state how the PAC 12 compares with the SEC.

[jkjsooner]

Actually I was responding to points you made criticizing the SEC in your original post, about how the SEC is full of mediocre teams.

Are there not a lot of mediocre teams in the SEC? Yes, their mediocre teams are better than most conference's mediocre teams. I never denied that. I'm just saying your assertion that Boise State couldn't hold their own in the SEC is misguided. Just because it's the best conference doesn't mean that a team like BSU wouldn't win their share of games.

I'm still trying to figure out how the fact the Tennessee or Georgia are traditional powers makes a damn bit of difference on whether their current teams are mediocre or how they would do against Boise State. (In the Georgia case I think we already know that it doesn't make a darn bit of difference.)


And, by the way, your definition of "traditional powers" is a little too forgiving for my taste. I like to think of a traditional power as a top 10 or so team. Your list of SEC powers goes well beyond a top 10 list. Other than a #1 preseason ranking a couple of years ago that turned out to be wildly optimistic, I can't remember Georgia being a player on the national scene since the Herschel Walker days. Prior to a few years ago I can't remember LSU being a player on the national scene either. Florida has been good for a while but prior to Spurrier they were hardly anything to write home about. (Maybe going back to the Spurrier playing days there...)

[ouflak]

You keep saying that but it simply is not true. In some conference, yes, this statement is more or less true. In the Big 10 (for example) this is absolutely not true. For example: Committee on Institutional Cooperation
I wonder if you polled this committee's members, how many of them would really give a crap about college football. Ok, I mean the thing was setup for the B1G, presumably by the B1G, but.... Let's put it like this. If the Big XII-III put together a committee for academic 'experiences' (phrase taken from the CIC website) for students of member schools, would that really mean that the conference a football team plays in really has anything to do with academics?

'No' is my answer. And I think it is the same answer for B1G, no matter how many committees like this they have.

If the SEC had an equivalent committee, would Boren suddenly be more interested in the SEC? I doubt it. He'd see through that in a heartbeat I'd hope.

[OUdrewDU]

I don't want to stay in this conference anymore than the next fellow... BUT

with the addition of TCU, Boise, WVU, and BYU you get 3 teams that have won a BCS bowl within the last 4 years and one that is relatively good in the past. Yes, they are not branded quite like A&M, Nebraska, and CU (understatement of the century) but they add 4 solid teams. If we have to stay, I feel like this would be my favorite option. I used to live in Ohio and I think the addition of Cinci would be awful. I am also not a huge fan of Ville but I could live with this because I love that city.

With that being said, the conference would currently look like this:

1. OU
5. Boise
6. OSU
16. Baylor
17. Texas
20. TCU
23. WVU

with a win this weekend for the wildcats that could lunge K-State aka Purple Kansas (that one guy has been trying really hard to get this going, I thought I would support his hard efforts) into the top 25. Texas will get back to with time. This is a VERY strong conference from top to Bottom. Yes, some question the sustainability of Boise and TCU but with the branding of the big 12 (though it has decreased in equity) I feel like these teams could survive.

This would give BCS wins in the last 5 years to OU, KU, Texas, TCU, Boise, WVU... 6 teams... could any other conference say this??

Maybe I am reaching and trying to find a way to be happy with this conference since my dreams of moving west are not likely....


If we are hell bent on staying, this is the best option

[SoonerMom2]

Boise is a non starter -- they bring nothing except football and believe it or not we have other conference championships. That doesn't even take into account their education is at pretty much the junior college level.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

There's a lot of whiny bitches in this thread!

[silverwheels]

I don't know why Boren doesn't want SEC. The only reason I can logically conclude is that Boren wants OU to join AAU, and it becomes more difficult by joining SEC since most AAU members are either Big 10 or Pac 12.

The SEC is better academically than the Big 12. OU would be ranked top 8-9 in the SEC academically. It is not too hard to win NC in the SEC. Teams have done it with undefeated teams, and even two-loss teams. Saban won two, Meyer won two, Miles and Chizik each have won one. The Big 12 despite being "easier" has only won two.

There is cheating everywhere in college football, and Boren's dream, PAC 12 has been as dirty as they come.

How does joining a conference with Cal or Stanford make OU academics better? Has it made ASU better? Has it made Arizona or Wazzu better? If I am overweight, do I lose weight just by hanging out with supermodels? Boren has done a great job improving OU academics, because OU started working hard to improve academics. I don't think AAU membership is worth placing the football program in weak conference, tied to the hip to an A&M college, and inferior to a Texas university.

This conference realignment issue risks of transforming Boren from one of the best OU presidents, to one of the worst.

He's using the academics angle as an excuse not to join the SEC. Joining the SEC would mean leaving OSU and Texas, and he doesn't want to do that.

[delhalew]

He's using the academics angle as an excuse not to join the SEC. Joining the SEC would mean leaving OSU and Texas, and he doesn't want to do that.
Good to see you acknowledge that is indeed just an excuse. A pretty poor one, I might add.

Just come out and say it would take a complete collapse for him to willingly abandon the pokes and the whorns.

[cherokeebrewer]

There's a lot of whiny bitches in this thread!
Not to mention conjecture, fantasy, fiction and pure speculation...

[sperry]

Are there not a lot of mediocre teams in the SEC? Yes, their mediocre teams are better than most conference's mediocre teams. I never denied that. I'm just saying your assertion that Boise State couldn't hold their own in the SEC is misguided. Just because it's the best conference doesn't mean that a team like BSU wouldn't win their share of games.

I'm still trying to figure out how the fact the Tennessee or Georgia are traditional powers makes a damn bit of difference on whether their current teams are mediocre or how they would do against Boise State. (In the Georgia case I think we already know that it doesn't make a darn bit of difference.)


And, by the way, your definition of "traditional powers" is a little too forgiving for my taste. I like to think of a traditional power as a top 10 or so team. Your list of SEC powers goes well beyond a top 10 list. Other than a #1 preseason ranking a couple of years ago that turned out to be wildly optimistic, I can't remember Georgia being a player on the national scene since the Herschel Walker days. Prior to a few years ago I can't remember LSU being a player on the national scene either. Florida has been good for a while but prior to Spurrier they were hardly anything to write home about. (Maybe going back to the Spurrier playing days there...)


I'm not talking about this year only. I'm talking about in general. I think Boise will be down from where they are now, while Tennessee and Georgia will be better.

As for status as a power, we can have different definitions. Georgia is a little bit of a stretch, but they've won confernece championships in the last decade, and have won national championships in their history. OU and Texas are the only programs in the Big 9 that meet that criteria. The other 7 haven't even been legimitate contenders for a conference championship aside from a handful of years in their history, and it's been even rarer for them to win one.


Regardless, the only point I was trying to make was how the SEC is so much stronger than the Big 9.

[OUdrewDU]

Boise is a non starter -- they bring nothing except football and believe it or not we have other conference championships. That doesn't even take into account their education is at pretty much the junior college level.

Pretty ignorant.The idea that Boise brings nothing to the table is just stupid. They bring no TV? Yes, Boise may not bring the biggest TV market from their location but nationally they get publicity. You can't turn on ESPN or flip through SI without reading about Boise and Kellen Moore. Almost all their games have been on ESPN this year, if not all. Cinci ??? I can't remember the last time I heard about them. People need to open their eyes and think outside the box. It's called branding people... It is less about the market and more about the quality. OU vs Boise would get hype and excitement from not only this region but throughout the country. Cinci vs OU or Ville vs OU would not!

[Sco]

Pretty ignorant.The idea that Boise brings nothing to the table is just stupid. They bring no TV? Yes, Boise may not bring the biggest TV market from their location but nationally they get publicity. You can't turn on ESPN or flip through SI without reading about Boise and Kellen Moore. Almost all their games have been on ESPN this year, if not all. Cinci ??? I can't remember the last time I heard about them. People need to open their eyes and think outside the box. It's called branding people... It is less about the market and more about the quality. OU vs Boise would get hype and excitement from not only this region but throughout the country. Cinci vs OU or Ville vs OU would not!

Care to elaborate? Turns out, Boise wouldn't bring any money into the conference, and all of the schools suffer financially from bringing in a small fan base for a school who's closest neighbor is Lubbock at 1253 miles away.

[OUdrewDU]

Care to elaborate? Turns out, Boise wouldn't bring any money into the conference, and all of the schools suffer financially from bringing in a small fan base for a school who's closest neighbor is Lubbock at 1253 miles away.

4 of their first 5 games were on national tv... they bring relevance.

[SoonerMom2]

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- Tennessee athletic director Dave Hart says the Southeastern Conference will expand again and officials at each school need to have a number of frank discussions before moving forward.

Hart says the addition of Texas A&M as the SEC's 13th team was a good one, but the league's leaders must take their next steps deliberately because the SEC will expand again. He says those conversations will take place "in short order."

The SEC announced Sunday that Texas A&M will join the conference in July after leaving the Big 12. SEC commissioner Mike Slive said later in the week that the league's presidents and chancellors are not currently considering any other schools for admission and that he anticipates having no additional members for the 2012-13 school year.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/15660469/tennessee-ad-sec-needs-to-discuss-further-expansion-soon

Now you know why Big 12 is talking 14 or maybe 16 if we consolidate with the Big East. Dodds wish for nine is DOA!

[northspeter]

reading some byu/west coast bloggers on twitter claiming that the cougs have agreed to join the big12 depending on what comes out of the mizzou meeting next tuesday...

[sperry]

4 of their first 5 games were on national tv... they bring relevance.

Good for on the field play, strength of the conference, and long term viability of the conference. Bad for short term dollars. We all know which one will win the day.

[8timechamps]

Good for on the field play, strength of the conference, and long term viability of the conference. Bad for short term dollars. We all know which one will win the day.

And I'm not sold on the "long term viability" thing. They garner interest right now, because they've been good for the past five years...get back to me in 10 more and we'll see how good they are.

I agree, the short term dollar is what it's all about right now.

[sperry]

And I'm not sold on the "long term viability" thing. They garner interest right now, because they've been good for the past five years...get back to me in 10 more and we'll see how good they are.

I agree, the short term dollar is what it's all about right now.


They're past 5 seasons would trump the best 5 seasons for pretty much every non-OU Texas school in the conference. They're a step up from what we've currently got, although that's really not saying too much.

[GreenSooner]

4 of their first 5 games were on national tv... they bring relevance.

But does that interest (and relevance) go away when they go from being a freakishly successful non-BCS conference team to a second-tier BCS team?

BSU is currently a bit like a talking dog. It's interesting not because of what it has to say, but simply because it's a dog that talks, i.e. a nationally competitive squad from a minor conference. That shtik ends the instant it hooks up,with a major conference, at which point it instantly becomes just another very good but not great program with little natural fan base (think Tech in the Leach years or KState in the late ’90s).

[BASSooner]

reading some byu/west coast bloggers on twitter claiming that the cougs have agreed to join the big12 depending on what comes out of the mizzou meeting next tuesday...
What are they going to do if Mizzou leaves?

[northspeter]

What are they going to do if Mizzou leaves?

independent...

[badger]

Texags is currently laughing at Big 12 for pursuing West Virginia, Cincy and Louisville.

:rcmad: Joke's on them. All three have been to a BCS bowl more recently than Aggie has. And even if they lift the two-team-per-conference BCS cap, Aggie still won't go for years.

Whoop! Howdy! :rolleyes:

[Sco]

4 of their first 5 games were on national tv... they bring relevance.

You know they've only played 3 games so far, right?

Still. Travel costs are insane for Boise and they bring a tiny fan base and television market. All around, they would weaken the conference.

The only way it would make sense is if we also bring in some teams to bridge the gap (Air Force, BYU, etc.). However, I think it makes more sense from a recruiting and financial standpoint to go east if anywhere... USF and Cincinnati, for instance.

[bluedogok]

If Boise gets into a major conference and become a middle of the pack team, then they won't garner that kind of national attention. For the most part they have had one or two games a season (including a bowl game) that tested them, even thought the current Big 12 may not be the SEC in terms of top to bottom power it is still a more difficult conference than the WAC or Mountain West. They will not have as many 10/11 win seasons going up against a Big 12 schedule year in and year out. After that their games would be televised more along the lines of Kansas/K-State, mostly regional, Tier 2 network games and they would lose any national cache that they have now.

[sooner KB]

Wasn't important when they've been begging Notre Domer all this time :D

We're on the verge of AAU membership. Boren probably won't retire till he sees that goal through.

Notre Dame is way better academically than most AAU schools. I don't know much about this "AAU", but I just don't see why it's a big deal. If everything is about the AAU for the Big 10, why don't they get Kansas? They are in it. Iowa State is also in it, so is Mizzou. So somehow they are all better than ND academically. /sarcasm.

Is this AAU thing really that important or are we just pulling all this out of our ****s?

[sooner KB]

About Boise State:

They are a "national brand" because of their win-loss records due to playing in a crappy conference. They will start to decline slightly after a couple seasons in a major conference and nobody in the media will care about them. They'll be about on par with Mizzou for a couple seasons, than drift down to Kansas/Tech status. Once they start to decline it will be really hard for them to rebound. They are in the state of Idaho, they will have a hard time recruiting.

They have that tiny stadium and tiny fan base. They are basically a junior college (technically a "west regional college", and even considered a mediocre west regional). Once they start to decline a little bit they will go down to Baylor or ISU status. This isn't the type of program we want. Lets not go get a Boise State just because those in the media are currently getting all hot and bothered by them. We need to think long term.

[ddub0224]

About Boise State:

They are a "national brand" because of their win-loss records due to playing in a crappy conference. They will start to decline slightly after a couple seasons in a major conference and nobody in the media will care about them. They'll be about on par with Mizzou for a couple seasons, than drift down to Kansas/Tech status. Once they start to decline it will be really hard for them to rebound. They are in the state of Idaho, they will have a hard time recruiting.

They have that tiny stadium and tiny fan base. They are basically a junior college (technically a "west regional college", and even considered a mediocre west regional). Once they start to decline a little bit they will go down to Baylor or ISU status. This isn't the type of program we want. Lets not go get a Boise State just because those in the media are currently getting all hot and bothered by them. We need to think long term.

BINGO ^^ The thing about a team like Boise is that they play one, two, maybe even three (bowl) big schools a year. Attrition these days gives many schools a competitive first string line-up. Unfortunately though when you join a big conference and play 4, 5, 6 big schools in a row, injuries set in and take effect. It's the second and third string talent that seperates a team like Boise from the big boys. The media loves the Cinderalla story now, but if they join the Big (whatever #) and lose 3-5 games a year...the clock strikes midnight pretty quickly and they become irrelevant. Then we're stuck traveling to Idaho for every other sport every year.

[soonerboomer93]

Pretty ignorant.The idea that Boise brings nothing to the table is just stupid. They bring no TV? Yes, Boise may not bring the biggest TV market from their location but nationally they get publicity. You can't turn on ESPN or flip through SI without reading about Boise and Kellen Moore. Almost all their games have been on ESPN this year, if not all. Cinci ??? I can't remember the last time I heard about them. People need to open their eyes and think outside the box. It's called branding people... It is less about the market and more about the quality. OU vs Boise would get hype and excitement from not only this region but throughout the country. Cinci vs OU or Ville vs OU would not!

Boise's tv's run away when they're no longer the under dog from the smaller conference fighting against the big bad BCS schools

[Sooner1972]

It's looking more and more certain that Mizzery is going to exit this sinking ship soon as well. Thanks Boren for allowing our 3rd-6th best teams to leave without doing a thing to either fight Texass or get us to a better place. I guess our objective is to be the Boise State of the Heartland at this point.

[Ashkill]

Found this today did not see it posted.

http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/9/29/2458627/conference-realignment-rumors-of-a-big-east-mass-exodus

[Ashkill]

That would basically give us this
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Iowa State
Cincinnati
West Virginia
Louisville

Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
BYU

Again a strong South and a weak North.

[OUdrewDU]

You know they've only played 3 games so far, right?

Still. Travel costs are insane for Boise and they bring a tiny fan base and television market. All around, they would weaken the conference.

The only way it would make sense is if we also bring in some teams to bridge the gap (Air Force, BYU, etc.). However, I think it makes more sense from a recruiting and financial standpoint to go east if anywhere... USF and Cincinnati, for instance.

look at their tv schedule

[Lott's Bandana]

Whatever number the BigXII comes up with, there needs to be a coalition to counter any unilateral moves by whorn.

Realizing a coalition in a conference is counter-productive, this would not make for much stability or strength.

Therefore, whorn remains a pariah, as they have been since they chased Arky to the SEC.


Vicious circley Kobayashi Maru-ish

[champions77]

It's looking more and more certain that Mizzery is going to exit this sinking ship soon as well. Thanks Boren for allowing our 3rd-6th best teams to leave without doing a thing to either fight Texass or get us to a better place. I guess our objective is to be the Boise State of the Heartland at this point.

This after his inexplicably weak attempt at bravado a month or so ago about how is OU searching out all of our options and that we would come out of this in great shape and that we won't be a "wallflower" in all of this, here we are. Not at all his finest moments. Not in my wildest dreams could I predict that Boren could make himself look this bad.

Apparently doing what is best for the University Of Oklahoma is not paramount in his decision making. Apparently tagging along with texas and leading Okie State around are his real goals.

[Sooner5030]

in the end the PAC might of lost out on its best possible additions. If the BIG12 expands first the PAC is stuck with SD State, Fresno, UNM and NEvada.

[GreenSooner]

This after his inexplicably weak attempt at bravado a month or so ago about how is OU searching out all of our options and that we would come out of this in great shape and that we won't be a "wallflower" in all of this, here we are. Not at all his finest moments. Not in my wildest dreams could I predict that Boren could make himself look this bad.

Apparently doing what is best for the University Of Oklahoma is not paramount in his decision making. Apparently tagging along with texas and leading Okie State around are his real goals.

What was Boren supposed to do? There's a lot we don't know here about who told what to whom and when. But, based on what we actually know, the only clear mistake he made in this round of reallignment talk was sounding as if OU had more choices that it in fact did. Turns out OU is pretty stuck in the Big XII for the moment. Boren did a lot less yapping than most of the other players in this drama. I think a case can be made that he should have done even less than he did. But I don't think there was anything he could have done differently over the last couple months that would have changed the outcome. The one big mistake I think Boren made was not going to the Pac-Whatever in the summer of 2010. I'm happy to criticize him for that decision. But it seems as if that was the last time that OU had any real options.

[sooner KB]

OU, Texas, Mizzou, and Kansas to the B1G. We'd be in a division with Nebraska, probably Iowa (old Big 8 foes). Mizzou and Kansas are AAU schools. Texas is better academically than many of the AAU schools. Plus the Texas and OU markets, obviously. We'd have no problem scheduling OSU non-conference every year.

Do it. Now.

[bowfin]

Texas is a non starter in the Big 10. Barry Alvarez helped sell the Big 10 that Nebraska would bring a a similar culture to the Big 10 that already existed. Contrary to the Texas mantra, conferences aren't all about television and money, and that will keep them out of the Big 10.

I would love to play Longhorns every year, but that doesn't mean I want to live with them, which brings us to another bit of Longhorn dogma that needs to be crushed:


Crybaby Nebraska left the Big XII because they couldn't take Texas beating them!

Really? REALLY!? We played the likes of Bud Wilkinson, Barry Switzer, the Selmon brothers, J.C. Watts and the Wishbone EVERY year for nigh on to 80 years and didn't back down or run off. But Texas thinks they are such a mighty force to be reckoned with that a team that relished playing the Sooners every year would run away from the likes of Texas?

Mind you Texas has more good years than bad years, but they overreach when they think they are scarier to Nebraska than Oklahoma or the Florida teams in the Orange Bowl. I think the scientific term is "delusional"...

[champions77]

What was Boren supposed to do? There's a lot we don't know here about who told what to whom and when. But, based on what we actually know, the only clear mistake he made in this round of reallignment talk was sounding as if OU had more choices that it in fact did. Turns out OU is pretty stuck in the Big XII for the moment. Boren did a lot less yapping than most of the other players in this drama. I think a case can be made that he should have done even less than he did. But I don't think there was anything he could have done differently over the last couple months that would have changed the outcome. The one big mistake I think Boren made was not going to the Pac-Whatever in the summer of 2010. I'm happy to criticize him for that decision. But it seems as if that was the last time that OU had any real options.

First of all he keeps him mouth shut, and deals with the players behind the scenes. The press release he made about how OU had all of these options (when we didn't) and that it will end great for us and that we won't be a wallflower gave the impression that we were gone to the PAC 12, stirred up the Presidents in other Big XII schools because it looked like our exodus would doom the conference and them. You have to wonder how many phone calls boren received from other schools after his brash statements?

Then he continued to tell the world that he was going to do what was best for the University of Oklahoma, while in the next breath stating that we would do nothing without osu? You surely know that what options that OU has or will have do not necessarily include osu too, so why would you say so? You could possibly end up doing what is not the best possible option for OU, because osu has to come along too, or you end up taking OU's best deal, which means leaving osu behind, and defaulting on a pledge to take osu along too. So now how would that look?

Boren did less yapping the most of the other players? Besides A&M's Prez, Boren did more yapping than everyone else. And every time he yapped, he did so and made himself look worse.

[JiminyChristmas]

For everyone who is in favor of a watered down Big XII (mainly our Pres and AD), take a look at the early NC game talk happening right now. The time is coming when an undefeated OU team will be left out in favor of a 1 loss SEC team.

We would certainly be passed by undefeated Stanford, Wisconisin, and maybe even Clemson.

The Big XII may provide us the easiest path to an undefeated season, but it will not provide the best path to the NC game.

Even this year, with the conference seemingly being strong in rankings and non-conference records, there is no respect. That problem will continue to get worse.

Please, Mizzou, go to the SEC and put this thing out of its' misery.

[Tear Down This Wall]

For everyone who is in favor of a watered down Big XII (mainly our Pres and AD), take a look at the early NC game talk happening right now. The time is coming when an undefeated OU team will be left out in favor of a 1 loss SEC team.

We would certainly be passed by undefeated Stanford, Wisconisin, and maybe even Clemson.

The Big XII may provide us the easiest path to an undefeated season, but it will not provide the best path to the NC game.

Even this year, with the conference seemingly being strong in rankings and non-conference records, there is no respect. That problem will continue to get worse.

Please, Mizzou, go to the SEC and put this thing out of its' misery.

This has been one of my points. SEC has already had a national championship with two losses because of strength of schedule.

And, all of you Einsteins pumping TCU...how about their loss to SMU over the weekend?

Give me a break. The Big 12 is a sunk ship. Texas is on the lifeboat. They are pulling us behind them on a life preserver. Texas Tech and Oklahoma State have wrestled some boards from the downed vessel and are dog paddling behind us.

How much more blind do Boren and Castiglione have to be?

Now, there are rumors of these stupid "pods." What kind of idiocy is infecting our leadership? Get us the f*ck out of the Big 12 and into the SEC where we belong. Otherwise we are doomed to be in some crappy concoction of a league with Texas leading the way yet again.

David Boren, please pull your head out of your *ss and get us out of here!

[Tear Down This Wall]

Also, having Chuck Neinas come on on board to try to get everyone to sing Big 12 Kumbaya, My Lord together is ridiculous. Texas isn't going to care anymore about what he has to sat than they did Beebe...who again, many a poster here called a hero last year. Stupid.

[champions77]

This has been one of my points. SEC has already had a national championship with two losses because of strength of schedule.

And, all of you Einsteins pumping TCU...how about their loss to SMU over the weekend?

Give me a break. The Big 12 is a sunk ship. Texas is on the lifeboat. They are pulling us behind them on a life preserver. Texas Tech and Oklahoma State have wrestled some boards from the downed vessel and are dog paddling behind us.

How much more blind do Boren and Castiglione have to be?

Now, there are rumors of these stupid "pods." What kind of idiocy is infecting our leadership? Get us the f*ck out of the Big 12 and into the SEC where we belong. Otherwise we are doomed to be in some crappy concoction of a league with Texas leading the way yet again.

David Boren, please pull your head out of your *ss and get us out of here!



+1

Boren has often repeated his main goal was to find "stability" in a Conference. So in staying with this sinking ship, has he found stability? I would say that A&M and Nebraska have found it. Most would agree.

[OULenexaman]

we are so ****ed....

[JohnnyMack]

Contrary to the Texas mantra, conferences aren't all about television and money, and that will keep them out of the Big 10.


That's easy to say when you already have a TV network in place that is pumping a metric **** ton of cash into your coffers.

[Ashkill]

First off I am all for leaving the USS Minnow. But I do not believe that losing A@m and Colorado hurt our strength of schedule. I would assume that BYU and West Virginia would bring the same strength most years, if we could even bring in those schools. The way OU schedules their non conference games helps gives a edge. Can I see us lose out to a one lost Sec team "no". But I could see us lose out to a undefeated sec and a undefeated Big 10/ Pac 10.

Every year we would still play saxet and OSU and hopeful Missouri, We have to hope that OSU stays good. Missouri and Kansas State stays decent. I do not think we can count on Baylor and ISU being what they currently are.

Plus one of the following ND, Tenn, Ohio state and LSU in the non conference. If we are undefeated we should be OK to make it to the big game barring two top tier conference teams being undefeated. Which brings me to the next question. What would be the easier road. Going undefeated in the New weak Big 12 or losing only one game in the SEC?

I think we are looking at the easier road, although its a much lamer road.

[Sooner1972]

This is the debate. If OU can sneak past a 1 loss SEC team even if they have played a bunch of really good teams, then we might can pull off what Boise State could not in the past and essentially get a free trip to the MNC. FWIW, I prefer to play big games and welcome competition as it toughens the team and provides excitement, and if we continually get drilled in the MNC voters will eventually catch on. However, this is one way to constantly sneak into the MNC if we can at least compete once we're there.

Nonetheless, being stuck in this quagmire with egg on our face sucks. Boren would have been far better served to just completely shut his mouth until he had personally figured out how the PAC members would vote, and even then he should have waited until it was official. As it is we are stuck in mediocrity land with no bargaining power.

[MeMyself&Me]

This is the debate. If OU can sneak past a 1 loss SEC team even if they have played a bunch of really good teams, then we might can pull off what Boise State could not in the past and essentially get a free trip to the MNC. FWIW, I prefer to play big games and welcome competition as it toughens the team and provides excitement, and if we continually get drilled in the MNC voters will eventually catch on. However, this is one way to constantly sneak into the MNC if we can at least compete once we're there.

Nonetheless, being stuck in this quagmire with egg on our face sucks. Boren would have been far better served to just completely shut his mouth until he had personally figured out how the PAC members would vote, and even then he should have waited until it was official. As it is we are stuck in mediocrity land with no bargaining power.

The Big 12-3 is does not even compare to the WAC. Not the same thing as Boise at all.

[S008NER]

so they agree to share tv revenue and to get locked in for 6 years but what about if misery leaves, is the deal still on then?
http://news.yahoo.com/big-12-presidents-approve-revenue-sharing-153041006.html

[soonercartoons]

Blame Texas. Blame 'em for it all. We here at Sooner Cartoons know where the blame lies and we aren't to happy about it. That's why we have chosen to bring back our fabled series of cartoons this week with of brand new installment: The Shorthorn Network. I hope you all enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2lLbDYm99U&feature=channel_video_title

[Lott's Bandana]

Cartoons, I'm going to make a thread with your video link. I want the Mods to sticky it.


Pure brilliance.

[SoonerMom2]

Missouri press conference at 5:30 cdt so in about 20 minutes. Tables with the mics are already in place according to STL media.