End of the BIG XII - THREAD FOR ALL REALIGNMENT DISCUSSION

[bluedogok]

If they are going to cause issues with OU (or OSU) leaving for another conference, then go independent for one season "nudge, nudge, wink, wink....." and sort out your conference affiliation when you are unencumbered by the lesser schools left for what inevitably will become the SWC v2.0. I still think that is why BYU went independent this season, it kept them free to jump wherever they wish. Even if they were to hamstring A&M this season how are they going to hamstring OU, OSU or Missouri if they wish to leave? If that is the criteria a year of Independence should bypass any meaningful criteria for contractual interference. There comes a point of diminishing returns, when five of the top schools (yes, in sports terms OSU is in the top half) leave a twelve team conference, there are fundamental issues that threats of lawsuits just cannot mend. UT does not want independence, they want a kingdom to rule over and to thumb their noses at, being independent grants them neither.

[OklahomaTuba]

If I were OU, I would jump. now.

[silverwheels]

If I were OU, I would jump. now.

Don't think that's an option at the present time. If we say we're going to leave, the other Big 12 schools will make sure A&M stays. Pac-12 presidents want the Big 12 to stay as is with no more expansion. They will only expand if the SEC does. If A&M stays, the SEC is not expanding. So they wouldn't take us.

[MountainOkie]

If I were OU, I would jump. now.

This!

[OklahomaTuba]

In the end, it's all A&M's problem.

If we leave, A&M will be on the hook for all the potential lost revenue of the 5 schools that did not want them to leave.

How much you think that will be????

OU has no such stipulation, so we need to haul ***, pronto!!!!!

[SoonerMom2]

If I were OU, I would jump. now.

I would too! The nerve of those bottom feeders in football to say they will only allow A&M to leave if OU commits to stay must have sent Boren through the roof. Talk about holding OU hostage in a nine-team conference? I smell TX big time behind this as no conference will take their network.

[MountainOkie]

I would too! The nerve of those bottom feeders in football to say they will only allow A&M to leave if OU commits to stay must have sent Boren through the roof. Talk about holding OU hostage in a nine-team conference? I smell TX big time behind this as no conference will take their network.

I agree. When your conference mates are trying to extort you...the relationship is past saving and its time to leave.

[bluedogok]

We are moving to Denver within the year, so a move to the Pac would be good for me and if Tech were to come along it would be a good one for my wife. I would rather OU go to the SEC even if it means a longer trip should we decide to go to a game. I would like to go to a game at most of the SEC venues for the experience, there are only a few that I would care to go to in the Pac but I have always been more east coast minded than west coast.

I just accept the fact that the administration is going to do what they feel is the best direction for the university to go and all of our discussion about it really means nothing in the overall scheme of things.

[SoonerMom2]

This should be an interesting conference season after this crap. MO signed off on it -- must know they are not the ones that the SEC wants. Time to clobber all these schools trying to hold us hostage. More incentive ever to win the Big 12 outright.

[bluedogok]

This should be an interesting conference season after this crap. MO signed off on it -- must know they are not the ones that the SEC wants. Time to clobber all these schools trying to hold us hostage. More incentive ever to win the Big 12 outright.
Missouri must know that neither the SEC or B1G wants them. That is the only reason why they would have that position.

[sooner2be3]

Its time to move on Sooner Nation! Anywhere is better than the big Bevo!

[sooner2be3]

SEC has Miss St. & Ole Miss, Auburn and Alabama, Tennessee and Vandy. Why not OU and OSU? It could work. OSU is good enough to be respectable for the forseeable future and they would not hurt the prestige of the conference. TV networks want matchups. They would get that. College football fans want to see good football........regardless of TV sets in respective state. Besides, the Oklahoma Sooner brand would make up the difference.

[silverwheels]

SEC doesn't want OSU because they won't add a significant amount of viewers, and Boren doesn't want to go to the SEC for a multitude of reasons.

[sooner2be3]

SEC doesn't want OSU because they won't add a significant amount of viewers, and Boren doesn't want to go to the SEC for a multitude of reasons.

I'm sure the reasons are many to not join the SEC. I feel the OSU brand is good enough to hold its own. Miss St., Ole Miss, South Carolina, Vandy have held up in the conference. OSU is no worse and maybe better. College fans will watch football regardless of name, just put good matchups on TV. Besides, the OU brand is larger than just Oklahoma. We can carry little brother in that respect. As for Boren and research reasons........I have no answer for that other than PAC would be better. At some point people have to realize these conferences need to be balanced competition-wise.

[SoonerMom2]

What bothers me in all of this is that OU and A&M stood up to TX and ESPN on the Longhorn Network televising high school games and crickets were chirping from the rest. Now they want to hold OU hostage by saying we need to commit to the Big 12 or they are suing -- what a way to blow up a conference that was already on life support. Threatening Boren is not the way to win friends but it sure could make an enemy. Last I heard on the radio the solution was to bring in two more TX schools and the AF Academy. Who in their right mind would want to come to this conference with the Longhorn Network and TX using smaller schools to put pressure on OU!

[Lott's Bandana]

Tuba, I almost cruised right past your lol post.

All along this play by Baylor hasn't been to keep aTm in the BigXII, it has been to force OU to make a solidarity statement. Baylor's strategy to make OU the hero or goat and deflect whorn's culpability.




Re-quoting from Tuba's link:


Baylor was among six Big 12 schools that will not sign a waiver to allow Texas A&M to go to the Southeastern Conference following a meeting of the Big 12 presidents Wednesday afternoon, a source close to Baylor told the Tribune-Herald. The other schools were Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Iowa State and Missouri.
If Oklahoma reaffirms its commitment to the Big 12, the schools are expected to sign the waiver that would allow the Aggies to go to the SEC without any legal action. The Sooners, who are reportedly considering a move to the Pac-12, are expected to make their decision within the next two weeks.

[CarolinaSoonerFan]

I wish this would just get taken care of already. We have had a year to think about what we should do and all our options should have already been taken into account in our long term planning. I guess we are just holding out looking for the best deal and trying to keep from being the bad guy, but with the latest events it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

[westbrooke]

What bothers me in all of this is that OU and A&M stood up to TX and ESPN on the Longhorn Network televising high school games and crickets were chirping from the rest. Now they want to hold OU hostage by saying we need to commit to the Big 12 or they are suing -- what a way to blow up a conference that was already on life support. Threatening Boren is not the way to win friends but it sure could make an enemy. Last I heard on the radio the solution was to bring in two more TX schools and the AF Academy. Who in their right mind would want to come to this conference with the Longhorn Network and TX using smaller schools to put pressure on OU!

I'm not sure that's actually true:

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/31251/questions-and-answers-from-media-days

The coaches were talking, and the outcry in Big 12 meetings was what led to the LHN ditching their plans to show a second conference game. OU was actually relatively quiet on the matter because we were exploring our own network.

Interesting that Briles is the one coach cited as not having a problem with LHN, but then again, Baylor is hardly the only school withholding consent for A&M's move:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6939017/texas-aggies-accepted-sec-legal-threat-delays-move


During Wednesday's call, the source said Texas A&M president R. Bowen Loftin asked if the schools would waive their right to litigation and only one -- Oklahoma -- agreed to do so. Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa State, Texas, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State would not, the source said.

[SoonerMom2]

So Oklahoma was the ONLY school that would waive their right to litigate. Maybe OU should go with A&M to the SEC and tell OSU to have fun with UT!

[westbrooke]

Honestly, I wish we had joined those other schools. There's absolutely no reason to waive that right at this moment. If we're honestly trying to decide between staying in the Big 12 or going to the Pac 12, then we should be keeping open the option of securing the long-term stability of the Big 12 as best we can. And let's remember, refusing to waive the right to litigate =/= you will litigate. The fact that we waived that right leads me to believe we have our bags packed and tickets purchased for the West Coast.

[Widescreen]

The fact that we waived that right leads me to believe we have our bags packed and tickets purchased for the West Coast.
We can only hope.

[AlboSooner]

Has this been resolved yet?

[SoonerMom2]

Dean Blevins says it has been resolved on Channel 9/10 for what it is worth and A&M headed to the SEC -- he got the news as they were going to something else.

[AlboSooner]

If Dean read it on a website, then it must be true.

[SoonerMom2]

http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2011/09/07/big-12-football-baylor-ultimatum-could-backfire/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Trammel's blog post is interesting -- here are some highlights:

You’ve sort of got to admire little ol’ Baylor. The Baptists have risen up on the football field and no longer are anyone’s punching bag. Now Baylor is fighting back in the boardroom.

Baylor refuses to waive its right to sue the Southeastern Conference, should the SEC admit Texas A&M and put the Big 12 in danger of dissolving. But Baylor also appears to be in the business of alienating OU, and by extension, OSU. Reports out of Waco, Texas, on Wednesday said six schools — Baylor, Missouri, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Kansas State and Kansas — had vowed that they would let A&M leave the Big 12 with a promise of no lawsuit, provided the Sooners re-committed to the conference. By Wednesday night, espn.com was reporting that all eight schools in the conference other than A&M and OU had resolved to issue the same deal. No lawsuit, if the Sooners stayed.

It was a bogus report. Texas Tech denied the original Waco Tribune report, and OSU officials vehemently denied the espn.com report, saying they would never put OU in such a compromising position. The Sooners were supporters of the 10-team Big 12, but after A&M’s stated desire to leave the conference, OU began considering its options.

Some within the league believe the reports stem from Baylor president Kenneth Starr and his last-ditch efforts to save the Big 12 for the Bears, who could be left with no good options if the Big 12 crumbles.

(snip)


Do you think OU, much less A&M, wants to be in a league with Baylor after Wednesday?

You talk about planning an exit strategy.

Or let’s say the threat would work — a far-fetched idea; when did anyone ever get ahead in life threatening David Boren?

(snip)

It’s possible that Wednesday was the darkest day in Big 12 history, other than the days Nebraska and Colorado left. The league disintegrated into mass chaos.

There have been valid reasons for OU and OSU to remain in the Big 12. Regional rivalries. Long-term associations. Familiarity. But there are fewer reasons today to stay in the Big 12 than there were yesterday. Some have told the Sooners to get away from the Longhorns.

Get away from Texas? How about getting away from Baylor?

[sooner59]

There are reasons that we would want to have texas around (RRSO, etc.). Why would we give two sh1ts about Baylor? Why would Boren give two sh1ts about ANY school willing to f*ck over OU? It seems like these pizz ant schools are trying to push OU around, and I don't see Boren reacting well to that. If I were Boren, I would think that I have worked way too hard to build OU academically and athletically as a big time, nation-wide school to have Baylor, ISU, or any Kansas school try to power-play us because they are scared. Boren needs to come out and say "Go f*ck yourselves, we're out." At this point, IDGAS where we land. We are Oklahoma, and don't deserve to be disrespected by our own conference partners who are irrelevant in the talks anyway. There are several conferences that would lend an ear if we left. Let the rest figure it out on their own.

[LosAngelesSooner]

This thread basically proves once again that message board posters never agree on anything.No it doesn't...

[sendbaht]

PAc 16 for me too!!!! how cool. Do wish the Big 12 was still the Big 12 but this is now.

[ouflak]

Honestly, I wish we had joined those other schools. There's absolutely no reason to waive that right at this moment.

And just what in the heck would we gain by suing the SEC? Or even threatening to sue? What even tiny positive would that bring for OU in the short term or long term? I can see lots of negatives: Being blacklisted from joining any conference, having our name permanently tarnished as extortionists, making enemies all across the college football landscape based on reasons that have nothing with what happens on the football field. I can see the negatives of such behavior. I think Boren can too. I can't see even the smallest positive.

[MeMyself&Me]

Texas and ND to the Big 10?

http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=162506546&mid=162506546&sid=901&style=2

[GameWarden]

Yea you are the only one

[Lott's Bandana]

No doubt whorn has been quiet lately.

[SoonerMom2]

Texas and ND to the Big 10?

http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=162506546&mid=162506546&sid=901&style=2

That would make sense with the CA site now saying OU and OSU definitely will be accepted along with KS and KSU because of KS basketball which would leave NO TX teams joining the PAC 12.

Does explain all the talk with ND by Dodds to save the Big 12 when he was actually wanting to go with them to the Big 10. NE is not going to happy if TX joins the Big 10. This may be why Stoops said what he did about the RRS.

[ouflak]

This opens up the potential that not only every conference in the country will be sued, but perhaps even an independent!

[SoonerMom2]

This opens up the potential that not only every conference in the country will be sued, but perhaps even an independent!

That is the funniest comment I have read yet about realignment.

[Anaxamander]

It's kind of upsetting to me hearing all this hate for the South from Sooner fans. I'm a Georgia boy who went to grad school at OU, and during my time in Norman (my favorite city ever, for the record) I never encountered this superior attitude at all. I never met an Oklahomans who looked down on the south. But then again, this is the internet.

[badger]

I'm a Georgia boy

http://i56.tinypic.com/33ekfi9.jpg

Nothing against Georgia, but some people in the state of Florida treated us like crap in 2005/06 out there for the game that never happened. The Louisiana folk were so bad in 2003/04 that I never want to go back to New Orleans, ever. Alabama was nice beyond words, even if we beat them (might have helped that highly-ranked Auburn was tanking early that 2003 season).

Then again... UGA fans did chant "OVERRATED" during ESPN College Gameday a few years ago when they mentioned OU... and then proceeded to lose said Gameday game, proving that you are what you chant :D

[SoonerNutt]

SEC is dirty. I don't want anything to do with it.

[soonerboomer93]

Texas and ND to the Big 10?

http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=162506546&mid=162506546&sid=901&style=2

The first statement is very interesting. In some ways, it goes very much against the statements from both OU and UT that they have been working closely together to stay together.

[Lott's Bandana]

Now the only two schools that have signed the waiver are in Norman and Austin. (espn report)

[badger]

Speaking of, saw this on the front page of NewsOK and it made me happy that Tebow is suffering in Denver.
http://blog.newsok.com/openmike/files/2011/09/sectebow-e1315489338417.jpg

Gator clap away, Teebz. It won't get you ahead of Brady Quinn or Kyle Orton! :D

[IndySooner]

The first statement is very interesting. In some ways, it goes very much against the statements from both OU and UT that they have been working closely together to stay together.

There's no doubt in my mind that both schools have been working behind the scenes. I have also heard from multiple people that the Big 10 and Pac 10 are working together to build their conferences (remember, they're long-term partners) and so it doesn't necessarily mean that OU and Texas have been working against each other. Notice that one of their conditions is the ability to play non-conference games mid-season (ala, OU/Texas in October).

[SoonerMom2]

There's no doubt in my mind that both schools have been working behind the scenes. I have also heard from multiple people that the Big 10 and Pac 10 are working together to build their conferences (remember, they're long-term partners) and so it doesn't necessarily mean that OU and Texas have been working against each other. Notice that one of their conditions is the ability to play non-conference games mid-season (ala, OU/Texas in October).

This makes perfect sense and probably what has been going on behind the scenes. Think the RRS would be even better if we were in different conferences. It would make sense for the PAC 12 and Big 10 to want this showcase game and the hype surrounding it would go nationwide. I love that idea of first not being in the same conference as Texas and secondly keep the RRS as representing the Pac 12 against the Big 10.

[westbrooke]

And just what in the heck would we gain by suing the SEC? Or even threatening to sue? What even tiny positive would that bring for OU in the short term or long term? I can see lots of negatives: Being blacklisted from joining any conference, having our name permanently tarnished as extortionists, making enemies all across the college football landscape based on reasons that have nothing with what happens on the football field. I can see the negatives of such behavior. I think Boren can too. I can't see even the smallest positive.

You can't see the positive because you misinterpreted what I wrote.

So let's make this explicit so everyone can stop screaming about extortion and blacklists and whatnot: refusing to waive a right to sue in no way means that you are absolutely going to sue someone or even going to threaten a lawsuit. It's simply a right that we have, and there's no reason to give it or any of our others rights away. I'm not now saying, nor have I ever said, that we should sue the SEC. That would be a really dumb thing to do for all of the reasons you mentioned. But so is giving rights away without consideration. We shouldn't do it. That's not blackmail. That's not extortion. And if we had any intention of making the Big 12 work, it's the smart play, to essentially say nothing and play our cards close to the vest as we've been doing for the last year, minus Boren's public statements.

Which returns us to what I said originally: the fact that Boren would waive that right suggests to me that we have little to no intention of making the Big 12 work and are already out the door. While you can't see a positive to threatening legal action (agreed), I see only one positive to waiving the right to sue, which is to avoid the perception of hypocrisy when we leave. If that is indeed where we are at this moment, then it's the right call. It remains the wrong call for all of those other schools without assurances of a better life after the Big 12 dies.

[Mr. Nuke]

NE is not going to happy if TX joins the Big 10.
I'm cool with it if they sign over their media rights to the Big Ten for the BTN like everyone else has.

[bigfatjerk]

This makes perfect sense and probably what has been going on behind the scenes. Think the RRS would be even better if we were in different conferences. It would make sense for the PAC 12 and Big 10 to want this showcase game and the hype surrounding it would go nationwide. I love that idea of first not being in the same conference as Texas and secondly keep the RRS as representing the Pac 12 against the Big 10.

Could be that PAC and B1G will have one OOC game against one another if they both go to Super Conferences. USC/Notre Dame, OU/Tx, etc

[Sooner_Havok]

With all the talk I hear of "We fit" in the SEC, this is what I think of.

Original Gator Hater (http://www.lolbucket.com/video/D5HKNRO75R27/The-Original-Gator-Hater--Squidbillies)

[LASooner]

Would the Rose Bowl still be disgusted by our presence in their precious bowl game?

[ouflak]

Well if there is one good thing to come out of the existence of the LHN and Baylor threatening to sue everybody, it's that this whole PAC possibility may go down flames. And if we're willing to part ways with OSU conference-wise (and I think we are), the SEC may still be a possibility in some distant future where a threat of litigation isn't tenuously holding this conference together.

[ouflak]

So I guess this is the end of conference expansion involving Big XII teams? Baylor should be able to keep all of the teams in line by threatening to sue any conference that any of us would want to join. This tactic will pretty much keep anybody except Texas (who could hypothetically go independent) from ever leaving. Am I correct?

Also, if the Big East goes after Baylor, do we sue the Big East? Or do just waiver them off?

[Widescreen]

The SEC is being stupid IMO. People switch conferences all the time and they aren't required to come up with these unreasonable "don't sue us" waivers. I'm not sure why they pulled that stunt.

"Sure, come join the SEC. But first, you'll have to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with...... A HERRING!"

[MeMyself&Me]

The SEC is being stupid IMO. People switch conferences all the time and they aren't required to come up with these unreasonable "don't sue us" waivers. I'm not sure why they pulled that stunt.

"Sure, come join the SEC. But first, you'll have to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with...... A HERRING!"

It's because they aren't all that high on aTm.

[Widescreen]

Then they should have told aTm no thanks right up front instead of letting it get to this point.

[Lawton4Life]

Would the Rose Bowl still be disgusted by our presence in their precious bowl game?

Wasnt that really just Keith Jackson saying we sullied the grounds of the Rose Bowl? I think the actual Rose Bowl people were happy to have us because our money spends just fine in their economy...they had to be less than thrilled with Wazzu though, their side of the field had some empty seats.

[SoonerMom2]

Wasnt that really just Keith Jackson saying we sullied the grounds of the Rose Bowl? I think the actual Rose Bowl people were happy to have us because our money spends just fine in their economy...they had to be less than thrilled with Wazzu though, their side of the field had some empty seats.

It was Keith Jackson and he is a jerk. My youngest daughter and I were out at the Rose Bowl facility a couple weeks before the game as we were visiting in SoCal and they were getting ready for the game. Everyone we talked to was happy the Sooners were in the game as the fans had made a lot of reservations at the really good hotels. Everywhere we went in our Sooner shirts, people welcomed us to SoCal. Kinid of funny as my daughter was born there and we lived there for about five years. I have always found the people of SoCal very welcoming from the first day we moved there.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Well, I'll be really disappointed in the leadership at the University if we end up staying in a depleted Big 12 and trying to fill the conference with the likes of BYU, Houston, SMU, etc. The conference used to be good, but it's dead now. Let's take a leadership role instead of cow towing to UT and head to the PAC, the SEC , the Big 10 or...eff it...even the Big East and ACC are better than the "dead man walking" Big 12.

I just don't want to look like UT's little bitch which is what we did look like last year when we said, "We'll do whatever Texas does...thankyousirmayihaveanother." That royally pissed me off and it was all the news was reporting out here. We're Oklahoma. And there's only ONE OU.

Tuck fexas.

[Tear Down This Wall]

If we grow a pair and call the SEC, we won't be perceived as anybody bitch.

[silverwheels]

If we grow a pair and call the SEC, we won't be perceived as anybody bitch.

I guess we're a bunch of bitches, then, because it's not happening.

[Tear Down This Wall]

It's kind of upsetting to me hearing all this hate for the South from Sooner fans. I'm a Georgia boy who went to grad school at OU, and during my time in Norman (my favorite city ever, for the record) I never encountered this superior attitude at all. I never met an Oklahomans who looked down on the south. But then again, this is the internet.

Dude, very few people do. The circumstances aren't much different in the Deep South than in Oklahoma. The only people really excited about the Pac-12 are the people who pretend academics count in an athletic conference.

If they really and truly cared about academics in college athletics, they would be fans of Rice, Northwestern, or Vandy. It's a farce.

Most of us realize the best college football is in the South. We can look at a map and see road games to Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi year after year in what would be our division of the SEC are closer than any Pac-12 school.

You gotta understand that there are people that pretend academic snobbery is somehow tied to college football. Yes...even our fanbase has some of those.

[silverwheels]

Dude, very few people do. The circumstances aren't much different in the Deep South than in Oklahoma. The only people really excited about the Pac-12 are the people who pretend academics count in an athletic conference.

If they really and truly cared about academics in college athletics, they would be fans of Rice, Northwestern, or Vandy. It's a farce.

Most of us realize the best college football is in the South. We can look at a map and see road games to Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi year after year in what would be our division of the SEC are closer than any Pac-12 school.

You gotta understand that there are people that pretend academic snobbery is somehow tied to college football. Yes...even our fanbase has some of those.

Tell it to Boren, then. I'm sure he would love to hear your opinion and take it seriously.

[3rdgensooner]

Tell it to Boren, then. I'm sure he would love to hear your opinion and take it seriously.Academic snobgoblin

[silverwheels]

I heard that. I wish I didn't just hear that, but I heard that.

[Sooner_Havok]

We can look at a map and see road games to Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi year after year in what would be our division of the SEC are closer than any Pac-12 school.

Yes, because road games to Oklahoma, Texas (or Kansas) Arizona, and Colorado would be awful in the division of the PAC we would be in. I couldn't imagine a conference were we were forced to travel to those states. Could you imagine having to travel to all of those far away states? It would bankrupt our athletic program I tell yeah. And then those once a year trips to the west coast! Dear lord that is unbearable! Now those once a year trips to the east coast in the SEC, that is like what, a thirty minute drive? Athens, Gainesville, Colombia S.C., those are all super-close!

SEC SEC SEC!

[Penguin]

Tell it to Boren, then. I'm sure he would love to hear your opinion and take it seriously.

I would love to ask Boren if he has ever heard of an instance where an Arizona State graduate got a job offer simply because his/her university was in the same athletic conference as Stanford. I also wonder if a Vanderbilt graduate has ever been denied a job because they are in the same conference as Ole Miss.


It might just be a stretch, but I believe a university is always judged by its own merits.

[silverwheels]

I would love to ask Boren if he has ever heard of an instance where an Arizona State graduate got a job offer simply because his/her university was in the same athletic conference as Stanford. I also wonder if a Vanderbilt graduate has ever been denied a job because they are in the same conference as Ole Miss.


It might just be a stretch, but I believe a university is always judged by its own merits.

Go for it.

[LosAngelesSooner]

If we grow a pair and call the SEC, we won't be perceived as anybody bitch.Or the Pac, which would be better for our University AND our football team than the SEC would.

I just hope we call somebody and DON'T stay in the Bevo 9.

[Fraggle145]

Why is it taking so long to blow up this ****mess of a conference. Are you serious? The talk now because things have stalled over this whole Baylor and Iowa St thing and now we are all going to get back together and sing kumbaya. ****. That. Noise. Someone grow some ****ing balls. aTm did, but now the SEC is acting like a bunch of pussies.

Newsflash the ACC got sued when all those teams left the big east. It amounted to a whopping $1 million per school settlement for the Big East and the promise that they would schedule a few cross divisional games. Dammit SEC if you **** this up... I mean fully expected the Aggies to **** the bed - They're Aggies.

We also need to just swing our dick out there. Hell we've already done it once just by talking. Lets get this **** done with the PAc-12 and blow it all up.

**** you Texas. This is all your fault.

[PrideMom]

Right now the SEC looks like they are the power house, but when all of the probations start setting in it will change that. All are a bunch of Red Necks. Don't want to play LSU every year--the most classless program ever!

[Tear Down This Wall]

AAU doesn't mean a hill of beans to the Big Ten, although people keep saying it does:

http://omaha.com/article/20110504/NEWS/305049750

The Big Ten didn't go apesh*t when Nebraska lost their AAU status. From the article:

"Nebraska's removal from the Association of American Universities isn't causing Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany any loss of sleep.

Even if that action had happened a year ago, when the Big Ten began studying NU as a potential member, it wouldn't have affected the school's invitation."

...

One of the big pluses to having Nebraska in the Big Ten is the Huskers' name recognition.

“The Nebraska football brand has developed in such a way like Notre Dame, like Oklahoma, like Texas, like Southern Cal,'' Delany said. “It's one of those programs that whenever you put them up against another quality opponent, it's a big game.''

It means nothing to the commissioner of the Big Ten. It will mean nothing to the commissioner of the Pac-12. No one cares except people who attend dinner parties with the type of snobs who think any of it is in anyway tied to athletics.

The conferences want money-making programs. They could care less about the academics side of it if the money will be there. The academic blowharding is just that - blowing.

[TUSooner]

Geographically, the SEC makes more sense, and some of the games would be closer to New Orleans for me. Plus, I would love the chance to see OU beat LSU in Norman or Baton Rouge (though losing to them would suckckkcckck.) But if I could afford to follow the team around, I'd much rather go to the west coast than the southeast.

I suspect the money will do all the talking, and any other "reasons" for the decision will take shape after the money has had its say.

[jumperstop]

AAU doesn't mean a hill of beans to the Big Ten, although people keep saying it does:

http://omaha.com/article/20110504/NEWS/305049750

The Big Ten didn't go apesh*t when Nebraska lost their AAU status. From the article:

"Nebraska's removal from the Association of American Universities isn't causing Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany any loss of sleep.

Even if that action had happened a year ago, when the Big Ten began studying NU as a potential member, it wouldn't have affected the school's invitation."

...

One of the big pluses to having Nebraska in the Big Ten is the Huskers' name recognition.

“The Nebraska football brand has developed in such a way like Notre Dame, like Oklahoma, like Texas, like Southern Cal,'' Delany said. “It's one of those programs that whenever you put them up against another quality opponent, it's a big game.''

It means nothing to the commissioner of the Big Ten. It will mean nothing to the commissioner of the Pac-12. No one cares except people who attend dinner parties with the type of snobs who think any of it is in anyway tied to athletics.

The conferences want money-making programs. They could care less about the academics side of it if the money will be there. The academic blowharding is just that - blowing.

What's he supposed to say, that it pissed him off and he is going to get rid of Nebraska? No, he said the only thing he could, he doesn't care....I bet it matter to him or at least the conference as a whole just a little.

[OrlandoSooner]

It's because they aren't all that high on aTm.

I think they just want time to cement #14. This does that.

[jumperstop]

And I don't think this is about academics. That's a front because Boren wants no part of the cheating and bs that is the SEC.

[SoonerFan303]

@HopWebsider
I'm hearing that A&M is making contingency plans to go indy if legal issue not resolved. Ags won't return to the B12 under any circumstance.

Hmm, maybe A&M goes Indy for 1 season and joins the SEC the next year. Or this is just a threat to prove the SEC is not responsible for this breakup.

[SoonerPride]

What's he supposed to say, that it pissed him off and he is going to get rid of Nebraska? No, he said the only thing he could, he doesn't care....I bet it matter to him or at least the conference as a whole just a little.

He could say that they've enrolled Nebraska in some remedial courses at Northwestern.

[delhalew]

PAC equals ****ty football. Yes. That's what is at issue here. Football.

[delhalew]

Why is it taking so long to blow up this ****mess of a conference. Are you serious? The talk now because things have stalled over this whole Baylor and Iowa St thing and now we are all going to get back together and sing kumbaya. ****. That. Noise. Someone grow some ****ing balls. aTm did, but now the SEC is acting like a bunch of pussies.

Newsflash the ACC got sued when all those teams left the big east. It amounted to a whopping $1 million per school settlement for the Big East and the promise that they would schedule a few cross divisional games. Dammit SEC if you **** this up... I mean fully expected the Aggies to **** the bed - They're Aggies.

We also need to just swing our dick out there. Hell we've already done it once just by talking. Lets get this **** done with the PAc-12 and blow it all up.

**** you Texas. This is all your fault.
**** yeah! You ****in' tell 'em.

We need to show these little girls how to blow up a conference. When we blow this thing up, there won't be any putting the motherfvcker back together!

[westbrooke]

AAU doesn't mean a hill of beans to the Big Ten, although people keep saying it does:

http://omaha.com/article/20110504/NEWS/305049750

The Big Ten didn't go apesh*t when Nebraska lost their AAU status. From the article:

"Nebraska's removal from the Association of American Universities isn't causing Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany any loss of sleep.

Even if that action had happened a year ago, when the Big Ten began studying NU as a potential member, it wouldn't have affected the school's invitation."

...

One of the big pluses to having Nebraska in the Big Ten is the Huskers' name recognition.

“The Nebraska football brand has developed in such a way like Notre Dame, like Oklahoma, like Texas, like Southern Cal,'' Delany said. “It's one of those programs that whenever you put them up against another quality opponent, it's a big game.''

It means nothing to the commissioner of the Big Ten. It will mean nothing to the commissioner of the Pac-12. No one cares except people who attend dinner parties with the type of snobs who think any of it is in anyway tied to athletics.

The conferences want money-making programs. They could care less about the academics side of it if the money will be there. The academic blowharding is just that - blowing.

Just because the Big 10 overlooked it in Nebraska's case, would overlook in Notre Dame's case, and might overlook it in OU's case, doesn't mean it's not important (http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/12511/big-tens-aau-ties-should-factor-in-expansion).

It's not a coincidence that every other school in the Big 10 is in the AAU, and that Nebraska has been in the AAU for most of its existence.

It's not a coincidence that every school in the Big 10 also becomes a member of the CIC, the academic counterpart to their athletic conference.

It's not a coincidence that after joining the CIC in 1990, Penn State (the only other member besides Nebraska that joined after the charter in 1958) went from a good school to a great one by nearly every measure (http://www.omaha.com/article/20100609/NEWS01/706099919).

You said: "The conferences want money-making programs." That calculation, however, has to include academics because academic money vastly exceeds athletic money, even for the profitable athletic departments. Ohio State's football program brings in more than any except Texas, last year: $68 million. (http://www.aolnews.com/2010/06/30/for-longhorns-money-grows-on-football-program-instead-of-trees/) You can basically double (http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2009/06/15/daily6.html) that for total athletic revenue. Their research revenue? $756 million. (http://research.osu.edu/osu-research/profile/) Even other "OSUs" bring in more research money (http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/article_60bb1824-9ba3-11df-9726-001cc4c002e0.html) than Ohio State's athletics.

The CIC as a whole generates $7 billion (http://www.cic.net/Home/Research.aspx) (with a B) in research money every year. That's not academic snobbery. That's just math. Academics matter and academic partnerships frequently coincide with athletic partnerships.

And to respond to another theme in this and other threads: yes, this is a football forum. We're here because of our mutual love of OU football. But I have to assume that you also give a damn about the university behind that football team, right? If that's the case, then football simply can't be the only criterion on which we make this decision. I, for one, am glad that Boren is looking at the bigger picture.

[delhalew]

Football, and football money, is the driving force behind expansion as a whole.

[LosAngelesSooner]

PAC equals ****ty football. Yes. That's what is at issue here. Football.Those ****ty football teams kicked our asses all over the field a few years back in the national championship game when we were supposedly the "Greatest Football Team in the history of college football." And they beat us worse than either SEC team did. And they also played for the National Championship game JUST LAST YEAR.

But yeah...I guess they play ****ty football in the PAC. :monkey:

[LosAngelesSooner]

Football, and football money, is the driving force behind expansion as a whole.And the money generated by our football teams goes to a lot more than just football, or the athletics department in general. It pays teachers salaries, pays for renovations around campus, scholarships, academics, etc.

So, yeah...there's more to factor in here and trying to make it only about football is oversimplifying a complex issue because looking at all the real factors involved takes too much work. And lazy brain no wanna work too hard.

[Fraggle145]

**** yeah! You ****in' tell 'em.

We need to show these little girls how to blow up a conference. When we blow this thing up, there won't be any putting the motherfvcker back together!

:biggrin:

[delhalew]

Those ****ty football teams kicked our asses all over the field a few years back in the national championship game when we were supposedly the "Greatest Football Team in the history of college football." And they beat us worse than either SEC team did. And they also played for the National Championship game JUST LAST YEAR.

But yeah...I guess they play ****ty football in the PAC. :monkey:

One program crawling out of the crapper, and going on a rampage, doesn't make for a strong conference.
Listen to yourself. You should know better.

[delhalew]

And the money generated by our football teams goes to a lot more than just football, or the athletics department in general. It pays teachers salaries, pays for renovations around campus, scholarships, academics, etc.

So, yeah...there's more to factor in here and trying to make it only about football is oversimplifying a complex issue because looking at all the real factors involved takes too much work. And lazy brain no wanna work too hard.

This stupid assed facet of the issue has been spoken about too much already. You can have it all to yourself.

[badger]

PAC equals ****ty football. Yes. That's what is at issue here. Football.

Oh man did Zona look sh!tty last night and I have similar expectations for Az State tonite against Mizzou. I didn't see much other Pac 12 ball last week, but did see USC nearly lose to crap tier Minnyhaha. It was pathetic. Has to drop golden boy QB's draft stock tremendously. No bowl game for you, regardless!

[delhalew]

Oh man did Zona look sh!tty last night and I have similar expectations for Az State tonite against Mizzou. I didn't see much other Pac 12 ball last week, but did see USC nearly lose to crap tier Minnyhaha. It was pathetic. Has to drop golden boy QB's draft stock tremendously. No bowl game for you, regardless!

It's worse than that. Last weekend I think only 2 PAC teams won.

The Big12 is 11-0 at present.

[westbrooke]

Football, and football money, is the driving force behind expansion as a whole.

For some schools, yes. All indications are that it's not the only consideration for Boren.

[delhalew]

For some schools, yes. All indications are that it's not the only consideration for Boren.

What's more, he may well be willing to sacrifice football for his other considerations.

[LosAngelesSooner]

One program crawling out of the crapper, and going on a rampage, doesn't make for a strong conference.
Listen to yourself. You should know better.Then by that definition most conferences are weak conferences. Including the Big 12 at its prime.


This stupid assed facet of the issue has been spoken about too much already. You can have it all to yourself.Because you don't LIKE this facet of the debate and because it single handedly shoots your whole argument down without having to go any further...you don't want to include it. You're a master debater.

[LosAngelesSooner]

What's more, he may well be willing to sacrifice football for his other considerations.My god...you'd almost think he was THE PRESIDENT OF A UNIVERSITY.

[delhalew]

Then by that definition most conferences are weak conferences. Including the Big 12 at its prime.

Because you don't LIKE this facet of the debate and because it single handedly shoots your whole argument down without having to go any further...you don't want to include it. You're a master debater.

You don't even make sense here. It's been done to death. I'm on record. Boren is gonna do what he wants.

I'll still have that beer with you though.

Maybe Stanford will continue to improve, and they can be the one team to provide us with competition. Not that they will care.

[delhalew]

My god...you'd almost think he was THE PRESIDENT OF A UNIVERSITY.

I heard that somewhere.

[OPSEC]

I'm with you. I think the SEC would be a better fit just because of the tradition. I do agree that baseball would suffer but only slightly. The pac 12 does give the fringe sports more competition and exposure and a better chance to succeed than the SEC would. But i keep holding out that the 14th Team would be us and that way we dont have to deal with texass. I think that would force the hand of texass going indy.

[delhalew]

I'm with you. I think the SEC would be a better fit just because of the tradition. I do agree that baseball would suffer but only slightly. The pac 12 does give the fringe sports more competition and exposure and a better chance to succeed than the SEC would. But i keep holding out that the 14th Team would be us and that way we dont have to deal with texass. I think that would force the hand of texass going indy.

Well SC just won two baseball titles. I hear the PAC plays basketball in glorified high school gyms.

[R@bidred]

I was listening to someone on WWLS rant about OU would be a better fit in the SEC. He thought we were more like the teams there then the PAC 12. I thought at the time did he really think we were like the LSU's of the SEC? He thought fans would rather travel to SEC games before going out west with a time difference. I keep thinking of the games I see played at LSU and the fans there. I would never go there to watch a game unless I took the National Guard with me.:smug:

[Tear Down This Wall]

In the Big 8 and Big 12, we were in a conference that contained schools with multiple national titles in football. The SEC would provide the same type of historically competitive football. The Pac-12? Well, Southern Cal and...Southern Cal have multiple national titles. One school with anything near us historically when it comes to football.

Again, people who like academics more than athletics like the move to the Pac-12. I suggest they become Rice Owl fans. It's close enough to Oklahoma for them to drive to the games down in Houston.

[delhalew]

Not trying to run you off, but look around a little bit. LSU is a special case. They've never known how to act.

I wish I knew were that video of the Arizona fans is. Talk about scum.

[LosAngelesSooner]

You don't even make sense here. It's been done to death. I'm on record. Boren is gonna do what he wants.

I'll still have that beer with you though.

Maybe Stanford will continue to improve, and they can be the one team to provide us with competition. Not that they will care.We also lost to Oregon. And USC. And UCLA.

They sure have weak teams out there.

[Memtig14]

I don't know where we should go but with the SEC we have a lot more in common than the Left coast.....like...geography, we are all okra eaters, and catfish eaters, and chicken fried steak eaters and football is life......

[delhalew]

I don't know where we should go but with the SEC we have a lot more in common than the Left coast.....like...geography, we are all okra eaters, and catfish eaters, and chicken fried steak eaters and football is life......

You've done it now. All the elitists, who hate were they come from, are gonna come running so they can call you a trashy redneck.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Yeah, that's it. We're elitists who hate where we're from. Either that, or we're not fat with gravy on our chins and worked out and got an education...all WHILE we were (or are still) living in Oklahoma.

Ya ever think that maybe some people really just don't want to be associated with what is EASILY the dirtiest and most over hyped conference in college football with some of the worst, most arrogant, dirty assed backwards fans in all of college football?

And that maybe that has less to do with some of us feeling "elite" and more about the SEC just being garbage.

[delhalew]

You answer to elitist now? :D

[LosAngelesSooner]

Sure I do. I'm proud of being elite. Just as the Navy SEALS are "elite fighting forces," the players in the NBA are "elite basketball players," etc.

Being ELITE is a GOOD THING.

[badger]

Not trying to run you off, but look around a little bit. LSU is a special case. They've never known how to act.

I wish I knew were that video of the Arizona fans is. Talk about scum.

I bet you're referring to this video of when Iowa visited Zona last year (NSFW):

p9Q4GQTp18I

[EatLeadCommie]

Football-wise, I think we are a better fit for the SEC, but Boren isn't simply making this decision for football. This decision has to rest on multiple fronts and reasons, and academics should be a big factor in any decision. The SEC has notoriously poor academics, with the exception of Vandy and I think UGA and UF. Yes, the Pac12 has schools like Oregon State, but they also have Cal, Stanford, UW, USC, UCLA, etc... Honestly, the best mix of academics, football, and geographic proximity for us would probably be the Big 10, but that doesn't appear to be in the works.

[delhalew]

Sure I do. I'm proud of being elite. Just as the Navy SEALS are "elite fighting forces," the players in the NBA are "elite basketball players," etc.

Being ELITE is a GOOD THING.

For record, I wasn't referring to you, unless you were one of those making uncalled for comments about people who live in the south. It's certainly possible I missed it.
I'm sure you know the difference between elite and elitist comes down to being a judgemental prick.

[3rdgensooner]

I see us as more of a western state, what with the way the state was founded, the ranches and rodeos. Even the oil boom is more similar to the growth of the West.

[Breadburner]

Sure I do. I'm proud of being elite. Just as the Navy SEALS are "elite fighting forces," the players in the NBA are "elite basketball players," etc.

Being ELITE is a GOOD THING.

You look elite from 1000yds.....

[Sooner_Havok]

I am sorry, but I do get offended when I hear people say that OU fits in better with the likes of LSU, Auburn, Florida, Ole' Miss, Mississippi State, and Georgia.

Everyone needs to get over this crush on Alabama. They were cool, I get that. We have a lot in common with them. I also seem to remember them not having many nice things to say about some of the other SEC fan bases.

[Sooner_Havok]

But, the PAC doesn't sell out their stadiums LAS! Never mind the fact that they have much larger TV markets than anything the SEC could muster, THEY DON'T SELL OUT THEIR STADIUMS!!!

Now, you could argue that by not selling out their stadiums, it would make getting tickets to away games easier, and by having a MUCH larger tv base, make the contracts MUCH fatter, but I can counter those arguments with three letters

S-E-C

SEC SEC SEC!

[R@bidred]

Where do we fit in anyway??? I look around the country and having visited all 57 states, I guess I relate more to (don't throw plates) Texas. In fact I would put in to join them if they follow through in seceding from the Union.
Why not just form a conference made up of Oklahoma and Texas? We have three teams that could hold their own by the time the conference got going. Texas could add at least 9 teams from division I. Maybe call it the Okxas 12? :victorious:

[C&CDean]

How many ****ing threads on this same old worn out topic do we really need? 10? 20? a hunnert?

[delhalew]

I am sorry, but I do get offended when I hear people say that OU fits in better with the likes of LSU, Auburn, Florida, Ole' Miss, Mississippi State, and Georgia.

Everyone needs to get over this crush on Alabama. They were cool, I get that. We have a lot in common with them. I also seem to remember them not having many nice things to say about some of the other SEC fan bases.
We fit in the big 12. The big reason we don't fit in the PAC is because they are mostly pro towns. They just don't love college ball like we do, and it shows on the field.

[Fraggle145]

How many ****ing threads on this same old worn out topic do we really need? 10? 20? a hunnert?

A hunnert.

[Scott D]

We fit in the big 12. The big reason we don't fit in the PAC is because they are mostly pro towns. They just don't love college ball like we do, and it shows on the field.


There is nothing pro about Pullman, WA or Eugene, OR.

Now there's something Pro in Berkeley, but I'll be damned if I want to know what it is.

[Sabanball]

It doesn't matter. You're not coming to the SEC, thanks to David Boren.

[silverwheels]

It doesn't matter. You're not coming to the SEC, thanks to David Boren.

And I am perfectly okay with that.

[C&CDean]

There is nothing pro about Pullman, WA or Eugene, OR.

Now there's something Pro in Berkeley, but I'll be damned if I want to know what it is.

You forgot Tucson, Palo Alto, and Corvallis. Just sayin'.

[limey_sooner]

It doesn't matter. You're not coming to the SEC, thanks to David Boren.

At this point, considering the way Boren has handled this horsesh*t over the last couple of years, I'm more than happy to trust him to make the right decision for OU. He's pretty much been a Zen Master.

[C&CDean]

At this point, considering the way Boren has handled this horsesh*t over the last couple of years, I'm more than happy to trust him to make the right decision for OU. He's pretty much been a Zen Master.

Amen my limey brother, amen.

[MeMyself&Me]

Thank you David Boren.

[AlboSooner]

I think the guy who does golf news for WWLS was ranting about it. Just by the words OU has said, it has improved its academic reputation in the eyes of America. Boren knows football will be fine anywhere it leads, so he has taken the academic issue more seriously and made it a focal point of this move.

It will be really tough to replace Boren when the times comes and he retires.

[MichiganSooner]

I very much prefer the SEC. A tougher conference in football. Arkansas is close by. LSU fairly close; same for Mississippi, Mississippi State and Vandy.

The time zone factor is huge. We are central; they are central and eastern. Supporters of Pac 12 do not face up to the fact that Arizona and the rest are in Pacific Time-2 hours off from us. They say we will not have late night games.

Bullcrap!! Missouri at Arizona State on Sept 9 at 9:30 PM Central time. That is a 7:30 start in Arizona. The game will get over at 1:30 AM our time and that stinks.

[College Sports Rivalry]

I cannot help but laugh at our fellow fans that somehow think Oklahoma is culturally aligned with the west. It can mean a couple of things. One, these fans have never been to the west. Two, they have a obvious biased against the Southeastern United States.

Being a native Okie and now living in AZ, I can assure these fans that we have absolutely zero in common with states like AZ, CA, Oregon and Washington. The culture in the west is a polar opposite of Okie culture. The culture in Oklahoma is predominantly southern. Anyone in doubt needs to do several things. 1. get out of OKC for once. 2. Visit the eastern part of the state - especially the SE. 3.Actually visit states like AZ or California. 4. Look at the US census. These states DO NOT take college football as seriously as Oklahomans. Not even close. The majority of residents in CA don't even watch college football, let alone know who the hell the Sooners are. The college sports atmosphere is diluted and discombobulated. A move to the Pac 12 is one of the biggest mistakes we could ever make regarding culture, tradition and travel.

Okies. Whether you like it or not, we are southern. Our tea is sweet, we have a dereliction for deep fried foods, we speak with a drawl and have much more in common with the old south. The majority of early day settlers came from the Old South escaping reconstruction. Most of the towns in Oklahoma are named after towns in the old south. Look at our state meal for God's sake. The majority of Oklahomans consider themselves southerners. http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/jun99/reed16.htm
OK territory aligned itself with the Confederacy. The territory was controlled by the Confederacy. We had towns and posts long before the land runs. To this day, we have more people relocate to our state from the SE than any other region. Southern by the Grace of God was written by an Oklahoman.
You are dreaming if you think these sorts of cultural behaviors are "western," or shared by the majority of residents in CA or AZ. We are not southwestern either. If you think we are, come visit NM or AZ and see how un Oklahoma it gets.

http://usaincajuel.wikispaces.com/file/view/census_regions.gif

[silverwheels]

You really think they would put OU on that late when less people would watch? Of course not. OU will fill the prime slots (3:30 and 8:00 ET) nearly every game. Neither Missouri nor Arizona State are as big a brand as OU.

[silverwheels]

I am not Southern, thank you very much, and I take offense to that.

[MichiganSooner]

College Sports Rival knows what he is talking about. Okies belong in SEC.

[silverwheels]

Okies actually live in California.

[SoonerinSouthlake]

yes

[Scott D]

Christ saying that OU belongs in the SEC is like saying that frilly pansies aren't the reason that there are so many flavored types of booze.

[MichiganSooner]

We also lost to Oregon. And USC. And UCLA.

They sure have weak teams out there.

We have beaten Oregon more than they have beaten us. We pounded UCLA in 2004 in Norman.

[College Sports Rivalry]

Be offended all you want. That does nothing to change the fact that Oklahoma is more southern than anything else. An understanding of human migration in the United States and geography alone says otherwise. We have absolutely nothing in common with Arizona or California. It is so obvious that those under that impression have never been out west.

I can assure you that us in the Pac 12 is one of the most ludicrous scenarios we have ever faced. We do not align with that conference in regards to culture or geography.

[MichiganSooner]

The biggest concern I have is poll voting. How many times have people said, no one sees the West Coast teams because they play so late?

[College Sports Rivalry]

Okies actually live in California.

And? Do you really think Okie culture stands out in CA? A state with 18 million people. Again, come to the west. See for yourself. There is nothing remotely similar to Oklahoma out here.

[silverwheels]

Parts of Oklahoma lean towards the South. Oklahoma is a mix of cultures, though. What do cowboys and ranchers have to do with the South? There are more of those out west than in Dixie. Oklahoma is a cultural fit in the Big 12. After that, it's splitting hairs, just like with travel concerns.

[silverwheels]

And? Do you really think Okie culture stands out in CA? A state with 18 million people. Again, come to the west. See for yourself. There is nothing remotely similar to Oklahoma out here.

18 million? More like 37. And I've been there. I've been all over the Southwest, and I've visited some parts of the South. Oklahoma is Oklahoma, not the South or west coast.

[mdklatt]

Again, come to the west. See for yourself. There is nothing remotely similar to Oklahoma out here.

You ever been to Bakersfield?

[silverwheels]

You ever been to Bakersfield?

Seriously. The SJ Valley is a lot like this part of the country. California isn't all beaches and hippies and surfers.

[picasso]

It wasn't Eschbach, he thinks people who want to go to the SEC are idiots.

[College Sports Rivalry]

You ever been to Bakersfield?

Yes. Ever been to Phoenix, Los Angeles, Seattle or San Fransisco?

Oklahoma, with its rich, fertile soil and undeveloped resources, was attractive to Southerners ruined by War and Reconstruction. They came in droves, hoping to better their lot. Many of them were Confederate veterans. Settled in 1887, Wynnewood, like most of the towns in Indian Territory, was populated nearly exclusively by people from the Old South states, and today the southeast quadrant of the state is still known as Little Dixie


http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgarvin/veterans/wynnewoodconfederate.html

Again. We can whine and moan all we want. We are southern.

Okies in CA and ranches or whatever other ridiculous argument we can make trying to align Oklahoma to the west, does not take away what is fact. The majority of Oklahomans consider themselves southern, we were controlled by the confederacy, All five civilized tribes fought for the confederacy, and the majority of early and current settlement come from the SE. I can provide source after source that clearly outlines all these facts.

In regards to football culture: We are a thousand and one times more in-line with SEC culture than we are Pac 12.

[Penguin]

You really think they would put OU on that late when less people would watch? Of course not. OU will fill the prime slots (3:30 and 8:00 ET) nearly every game.


Who from the Pac-X has promised us no late games?

[Scott D]

What amuses me here is that rural Oklahoma has far more in common with rural Wyoming, Iowa, Idaho, Montana than with Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisiana.

[silverwheels]

Who from the Pac-X has promised us no late games?

No one. They haven't promised us that we will be playing late games, either. I would think with the Pac-12 extending into the Central Time Zone that some compromises would be made regarding start times.

[mdklatt]

What amuses me here is that rural Oklahoma has far more in common with rural Wyoming, Iowa, Idaho, Montana than with Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisiana.

Oklahoma west of I-35 can join the PAC-16. Eastern Oklahoma can join the SEC. Hills and trees!

[ouflak]

I must admit, my enthusiasm for joining the SEC has waned since the beginning of this thread. Don't quite think I like how they hung A&M out to dry like that. Still I'd prefer there than the PAC.

[silverwheels]

What amuses me here is that rural Oklahoma has far more in common with rural Wyoming, Iowa, Idaho, Montana than with Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisiana.

Yeah, not all of Oklahoma looks like the Southeast part of the state. I would actually argue that Oklahoma and Texas are pretty much their own culture. Texans are generally more arrogant (everything is bigger in Texas, especially egos), of course, but this part of the country is not like the South, Midwest, or Southwest.

[College Sports Rivalry]

Eschbach is an idiot and that show is way behind on facts. I called in the other day and voiced what I am saying now. He didn't even want to listen to anything about the SEC. Two days after reports surfaced that the Pac 12 does not want to expand, someone brought it up in the Sports Animal. They acted shocked. Eschbach said "Wow. this is big."

What's even bigger is this guy has a sports show where the fans know more than him. Boren clearly stated that SEVERAL conferences were interested in OU. Berry Tramel, who is also blatantly anti SEC, quickly goes into damage control and writes a bogus report stating that the Pac 12 is OU's sole focus. That is false and the entire nation picked up on his hack piece like it was a direct report coming out of the OU board room. He has no inside source and Boren or OU never said that.

Burns Hargis said Thursday night that even if A&M heads to the SEC, it does NOT necessarily mean OU and OSU are headed west. OU does NOT have an open invite to the Pac 12. There are many factors and hurdles to overcome for that to ever take place. People need to listen to what is actually being said by the officials, and not what the biased and bogus reports say.

[College Sports Rivalry]

What amuses me here is that rural Oklahoma has far more in common with rural Wyoming, Iowa, Idaho, Montana than with Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisiana.

That is ridiculous and absolutely false. Just because a few Okies in the metro areas can't come to terms with the state's history and culture, does not mean they speak for the state. Go tell people in Broken Bow that they are not southern and resemble a culture more in tune with Wyoming. Hilarious.

[delhalew]

What amuses me here is that rural Oklahoma has far more in common with rural Wyoming, Iowa, Idaho, Montana than with Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisiana.
That'd be one piece of **** football conference. :D

[Scott D]

people in the south don't even know what it means to be southern....it's one of those poorly evolved myths, like global warming.

[silverwheels]

That is ridiculous and absolutely false. Just because a few Okies in the metro areas can't come to terms with the state's history and culture, does not mean they speak for the state. Go tell people in Broken Bow that they are not southern and resemble a culture more in tune with Wyoming. Hilarious.

~2.3 million or so of Oklahoma's population of ~3.7 million live in either the OKC or Tulsa metro areas, and there is nothing Southern about OKC or Tulsa.

[delhalew]

Oklahoma is unique. It has elements of the south, elements of the southwest, and elements of the midwest. The one thing true of the whole state is a rabid love of football.

This is not true of the Pacific Coast.

[delhalew]

~2.3 million or so of Oklahoma's population of ~3.7 million live in either the OKC or Tulsa metro areas, and there is nothing Southern about OKC or Tulsa.

I wish I would quit forgetting that your opinion doesn't mean **** if you don't live in the city.

[College Sports Rivalry]

What amuses me here is that rural Oklahoma has far more in common with rural Wyoming, Iowa, Idaho, Montana than with Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisiana.

That is ridiculous and absolutely false. Just because a few Okies in the metro areas can't come to terms with the state's history and culture, does not mean they speak for the state. Go tell people in Broken Bow that they are not southern and resemble a culture more in tune with Wyoming. Hilarious.

[silverwheels]

I wish I would quit forgetting that your opinion doesn't mean **** if you don't live in the city.

I'm just countering his opinion that only a few people in Oklahoma's metro areas do not identify with the South. Like we both have said, Oklahoma is Oklahoma.

[soonertodd]

when the f*** did oregon beat us? you mean the one the refs GAVE TO THEM? ucla beat a below average ou team at home, sure usc stomped us.that was one game. i am all for the SEC imagine a schedule playing texas,lsu,alabama,florida,auburn,and georgia we could have a big game every weekend. if ya wanna be the best ya gotta beat the best
We also lost to Oregon. And USC. And UCLA.

They sure have weak teams out there.

[delhalew]

I'm just countering his opinion that only a few people in Oklahoma's metro areas do not identify with the South. Like we both have said, Oklahoma is Oklahoma.

It is true. Oklahoma is one of a kind. I turned down LA, Chicago, and Atlanta to live here.

It is also true that a staggering amount of Oklahomans consider themselves southern. I bake buttermilk biscuits from scratch just like my parents and grandparents before me for crying out loud! :D

[College Sports Rivalry]

I'm just countering his opinion that only a few people in Oklahoma's metro areas do not identify with the South. Like we both have said, Oklahoma is Oklahoma.

Thank you. The midwest notion more times than not comes from people in Tulsa. Why? I don't know. They aren't midwest by any stretch of imagination. They are almost in Arkansas is what they are. This is the Midwest and Tulsans have zero in common with folks in Michigan or Nebraska.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Map_of_USA_Midwest.svg/300px-Map_of_USA_Midwest.svg.png

I know what it is like living in Oklahoma. I lived there most of my life. I too shared some of these cultural misconceptions about our state. Once I left, I saw how wrong I was. I will say it once more. Our culture is southern more than it is any other culture in the United States.

[mdklatt]

Yes. Ever been to Phoenix, Los Angeles, Seattle or San Fransisco?

All of the above except SF. Plus San Diego and Denver/Boulder. And Albuquerque. Does Las Cruces count? I've been to Salt Lake City, but only the airport. I know people that live in Portland, plus I watched all of the first season of Portlandia. I almost changed planes in Las Vegas one time, but they changed my flight.


Oklahoma, with its rich, fertile soil and undeveloped resources, was attractive to Southerners ruined by War and Reconstruction. They came in droves, hoping to better their lot. Many of them were Confederate veterans. Settled in 1887, Wynnewood, like most of the towns in Indian Territory, was populated nearly exclusively by people from the Old South states, and today the southeast quadrant of the state is still known as Little Dixie.

Cool story, bro.


The majority of Oklahomans consider themselves southern, we were controlled by the confederacy, All five civilized tribes fought for the confederacy, and the majority of early and current settlement come from the SE. I can provide source after source that clearly outlines all these facts.

Aside from SicEmBaylor, I don't know anybody from Oklahoma who hangs their hat on the fact that Oklahoma had anything to do with the Confederacy. It's just not a big deal around here, at least not anymore. We don't have some version of the stars and bars on our flag. Tulsa had their race riot, but that was 90 years ago, and Tulsans considers themselves part of Missouri or something anyway. We're a poor *** rural state, but not so much a poor *** rural Southern state. You can swing a dead cat in the hinterlands and find a pickup with truck nuts, a gun rack, and a "3" sticker, but there's almost never a confederate flag in the window.

And I still don't see what this has to do with joining an athletic conference.




In regards to football culture: We are a thousand and one times more in-line with SEC culture than we are Pac 12.

This is undoubtedly true, minus the fratty DBs getting all dressed up for football games. I don't have a strong preference for SEC or PAC-16, but I do know that football isn't the only thing driving the decision.

[silverwheels]

Thank you. The midwest notion more times than not comes from people in Tulsa. Why? I don't know. They aren't midwest by any stretch of imagination. They are almost in Arkansas is what they are. This is the Midwest and Tulsans have zero in common with folks in Michigan or Nebraska.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Map_of_USA_Midwest.svg/300px-Map_of_USA_Midwest.svg.png

I know what it is like living in Oklahoma. I lived there most of my life. I too shared some of these cultural misconceptions about our state. Once I left, I saw how wrong I was. I will say it once more. Our culture is southern more than it is any other culture in the United States.

That's not necessarily a good thing. Education and health standards are extremely poor in the South. I would like that culture to change. Boren likes the academic culture of the Pac-12, so that's why he's listening to them more than anyone else.

[delhalew]

I must admit, my enthusiasm for joining the SEC has waned since the beginning of this thread. Don't quite think I like how they hung A&M out to dry like that. Still I'd prefer there than the PAC.

They are biding their time because they want us. We unfortunately have a dayglo orange albatross around our neck.

[delhalew]

Thank you. The midwest notion more times than not comes from people in Tulsa. Why? I don't know. They aren't midwest by any stretch of imagination. They are almost in Arkansas is what they are. This is the Midwest and Tulsans have zero in common with folks in Michigan or Nebraska.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Map_of_USA_Midwest.svg/300px-Map_of_USA_Midwest.svg.png

I know what it is like living in Oklahoma. I lived there most of my life. I too shared some of these cultural misconceptions about our state. Once I left, I saw how wrong I was. I will say it once more. Our culture is southern more than it is any other culture in the United States.

Spending quality time in all fifty states will straighten out your line of thinking real quick.

[College Sports Rivalry]

That's not necessarily a good thing. Education and health standards are extremely poor in the South. I would like that culture to change. Boren likes the academic culture of the Pac-12, so that's why he's listening to them more than anyone else.

You are making my point for me. I am not making an argument for education. I think Oklahoma fares much better than deep south states in that regard. My point is: I see Okies making the argument that we are a better fit culturally for the Pac 12 because we are more "western" in culture - and suspected it is more like Berry Tramel's hatred for the South - or being associated with it. My response is: No son, Arizona and Oregon are western. My main point. In regard to demographics, geography, religion, politics, cuisine and speech, we are in the South. That doesn't mean we cannot boast that we have better academics and a better economy than Mississippi.

[delhalew]

That's not necessarily a good thing. Education and health standards are extremely poor in the South. I would like that culture to change. Boren likes the academic culture of the Pac-12, so that's why he's listening to them more than anyone else.

I get that about you, and plenty of other Oklahomans.
In today's work environment southern cooking makes you fat. Education needs attention. If I can recognize the hazards of southern culture, can you see the folly of progress for progress sake.

Again, I have lived in every environment the US has to offer. There are things rural people do very well. Usually playing football, and being decent to each other are very high on that list.

[mdklatt]

Thank you. The midwest notion more times than not comes from people in Tulsa. Why? I don't know. They aren't midwest by any stretch of imagination. They are almost in Arkansas is what they are. This is the Midwest and Tulsans have zero in common with folks in Michigan or Nebraska.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Map_of_USA_Midwest.svg/300px-Map_of_USA_Midwest.svg.png

Nebraska has a helluva lot more in common with Oklahoma than Michigan, although Omaha is very much a Midwestern city. Tulsa seems straight-up Sunbelt Sprawl to me, with maybe a teen tiny bit more Midwestern feel than Oklahoma City.


Our culture is southern more than it is any other culture in the United States.

There is a huge geographic and cultural divide along I-35. Eastern Oklahoma has some Southern influences, but you're never going to convince me that places Woodward, Altus, or Guymon are Southern. Oklahoma is a crossroads. It doesn't fit into any one cultural description, and thus is really its own culture. Texas is very similar in this way. The only thing Tyler and Abilene have in common is too many *******s wearing burnt orange.

[silverwheels]

You are making my point for me. I am not making an argument for education. I think Oklahoma fares much better than deep south states in that regard. My point is: I see Okies making the argument that we are a better fit culturally for the Pac 12 because we are more "western" in culture - and suspected it is more like Berry Tramel's hatred for the South - or being associated with it. My response is: No son, Arizona and Oregon are western. My main point. In regard to demographics, geography, religion, politics, cuisine and speech, we are in the South. That doesn't mean we cannot boast that we have better academics and a better economy than Mississippi.

Well, like it or not, education and academic standards are playing a big role in this. Culture isn't.


I get that about you, and plenty of other Oklahomans.
In today's work environment southern cooking makes you fat. Education needs attention. If I can recognize the hazards of southern culture, can you see the folly of progress for progress sake.

Again, I have lived in every environment the US has to offer. There are things rural people do very well. Usually playing football, and being decent to each other are very high on that list.

Yes, people on the west coast generally are not as nice as us poor country folk down here in flyover land. And yes, we play football better than they do across the board. But this isn't just about football. If it were, Boren would have accepted an invite to the SEC already. There's more than just results on Owen Field at stake here in all of this mess. I still wish we could go back to last summer and find a way to keep the Big 12 together.

[College Sports Rivalry]

One other interesting tid bit I would like to share. Here is a link that maps out speech patterns in the United States. If you read the information provided in the explanations, you will see that states in the the west do not have a specific speech patterns like the eastern and central parts of the Country. That is because we are still growing as a nation and the west is not yet culturally defined. Cities like PHX, Los Angeles and Seattle are multi cultural meccas. Just as the Old South once was. It eventually(not in our lifetimes) will have a cultural identity that can be traced by speech patterns.
http://www.pbs.org/speak/speech/mapping/map.html

[College Sports Rivalry]

Nebraska has a helluva lot more in common with Oklahoma than Michigan, although Omaha is very much a Midwestern city. Tulsa seems straight-up Sunbelt Sprawl to me, with maybe a teen tiny bit more Midwestern feel than Oklahoma City.



There is a huge geographic and cultural divide along I-35. Eastern Oklahoma has some Southern influences, but you're never going to convince me that places Woodward, Altus, or Guymon are Southern. Oklahoma is a crossroads. It doesn't fit into any one cultural description, and thus is really its own culture. Texas is very similar in this way. The only thing Tyler and Abilene have in common is too many *******s wearing burnt orange.

Western Oklahoma is so sparsely populated that by geographer's standards they are borrowing a culture of isolated farmers from west Texas. Oklahoma's core is in the central and eastern regions. Those regions were populated almost exclusively by southerners from these four states of the old south plus Kentucky. Tennessee, Mississippi Virginia and Louisiana. Those four contributed more to Oklahoma settlement than all states in the U.S. We had less from Texas in the beginning believe it or not. Texas was a "go to" area. That indicates why our accent more closely resembles that of a Arkansan than Texas Twang.

[Penguin]

Well, like it or not, education and academic standards are playing a big role in this. Culture isn't.


This is what is driving me insane! Exactly what group of intellectuals are we trying to impress by joining the same athletic conference as Stanford? If this truly is one of Boren's arguments, then it rings hallow.

[silverwheels]

This is what is driving me insane! Exactly what group of intellectuals are we trying to impress by joining the same athletic conference as Stanford? If this truly is one of Boren's arguments, then it rings hallow.

I don't know, getting more research grants might help.

[College Sports Rivalry]

This is what is driving me insane! Exactly what group of intellectuals are we trying to impress by joining the same athletic conference as Stanford? If this truly is one of Boren's arguments, then it rings hallow.

I never saw any reliable report that Boren actually feels this way. Let's assume he does. This same line of thinking revolving around academics is the same reason Cal Berkeley has remained irrelevant in sports. Schools in the SE trying to align with ACC schools in hopes they would magically turn into some Ivy league institution have actually dropped in their academic ranking.

[mdklatt]

This is what is driving me insane! Exactly what group of intellectuals are we trying to impress by joining the same athletic conference as Stanford? If this truly is one of Boren's arguments, then it rings hallow.

Yeah, I'm not sure why academics get lumped together with athletic affiliations, but it does happen. We're always comparing ourselves to other Big 12 schools in terms of endowments, library sizes, faculty salaries, etc. No one's going to confuse us with Stanford or Berkeley if we head west, but like they say, it's better to have the smallest house in a nice neighborhood than biggest house in a crappy neighborhood.

But really, is the SEC all that bad compared to the PAC-12? You've got your Ivy League schools, your top-tier non-Ivies like Duke, Stanford, and Michigan, a vast middle-class of schools whose reputations are good enough, and then your TTT schools. A degree from OU, or Nebraska, or Oregon, or Alabama, or Iowa State, or just about any University of ___ or ___ State may not open many doors for graduates, but it certainly won't get any doors slammed in their faces.

[LosAngelesSooner]

when the f*** did oregon beat us? you mean the one the refs GAVE TO THEM? ucla beat a below average ou team at home, sure usc stomped us.that was one game. i am all for the SEC imagine a schedule playing texas,lsu,alabama,florida,auburn,and georgia we could have a big game every weekend. if ya wanna be the best ya gotta beat the bestYeah, that game was a rip off, but we still lost. And we shouldn't have even let them be close enough for the refs to hand it away. And making excuses for it (and ESPECIALLY for the UCLA game) is VERY aggie. I won't do that. We lost both. Period. So saying that the PAC plays weak football is a dumb excuse.

And I CAN imagine that schedule. It would be filled with really crappy fans in REALLY crappy cities that would involve just as much travel for games that wouldn't be any better than games against the PAC. And IF/WHEN we won another NC, we'd have Tennessee or Georgia calling the NCAA and trying to turn us in for cheating (which they do to each other down there, if you haven't noticed) and we'd be presumed guilty for being in the dirtiest conference in college football. Hands down.

[mdklatt]

I don't know, getting more research grants might help.

I don't see how simply being a part of a certain conference will bring in more research money, unless the conference itself has research infrastructure. If it's easier to collaborate with colleagues at different universities you can leverage each institution's strengths and put together a stronger proposal. To my knowledge, there's nothing like this in the Big 12. Each school has different procedures for submitting proposals, and it's a big hassle to collaborate even with in-state colleagues at oSu.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I very much prefer the SEC. A tougher conference in football. Arkansas is close by. LSU fairly close; same for Mississippi, Mississippi State and Vandy.

The time zone factor is huge. We are central; they are central and eastern. Supporters of Pac 12 do not face up to the fact that Arizona and the rest are in Pacific Time-2 hours off from us. They say we will not have late night games.

Bullcrap!! Missouri at Arizona State on Sept 9 at 9:30 PM Central time. That is a 7:30 start in Arizona. The game will get over at 1:30 AM our time and that stinks.Holy Hell, you'd think they were in freakin' Hong Kong by the way you're complaining about a 2 hour time difference.

Uhm...you think maybe they'd just schedule some of those games a little earlier so the fans back home could say up waaaaaay past their bed time to watch it? LOL!

[LosAngelesSooner]

I swear to god, the way some of you whine you'd think our fanbase was a bunch of 9 year olds who have to be in bed by 10pm, commute to our road games via bicycle, can't afford plane tickets because they don't make enough money on their paper routes and don't know how to find the cheap ones on Expedia.com, and don't give a whit about our academics because they never have (haven't yet) gone to our University.

Jeepers...

[LosAngelesSooner]

We have beaten Oregon more than they have beaten us. We pounded UCLA in 2004 in Norman.Nobody is denying that. I never said our team was weak, I only countered the "there aren't any teams in the PAC who could beat us" with a quick list of three teams from the PAC who beat us.

[silverwheels]

If Boren didn't think it would benefit OU academically to be aligned with the California schools, Washington, and Colorado, he wouldn't want to go out there.

[AlboSooner]

This is what is driving me insane! Exactly what group of intellectuals are we trying to impress by joining the same athletic conference as Stanford? If this truly is one of Boren's arguments, then it rings hallow.

Say what? The football team exists because of higher education. We don't have colleges to facilitate football; we have football to facilitate the improvement of higher education. OU is at the top in football. Boren wants OU academics to be at top aslo. God bless him. It has nothing to do with impressing people.

[mdklatt]

If Boren didn't think it would benefit OU academically to be aligned with the California schools, Washington, and Colorado, he wouldn't want to go out there.

I agree that we'd better off academically with the PAC-16, I'm just not sure why that would be the case. I think the Big 10 does make a point of sharing resources, which is why they have a strong academic reputation. Maybe they have a commissioner's office for academics or something? It's a lot more than just an athletic relationship. The Big 12 doesn't really seem to be that way, at least in my narrow experience. If I had to guess, I would bet the Pac-12 works more like the Big 10 than the SEC does.

[silverwheels]

I agree that we'd better off academically with the PAC-16, I'm just not sure why that would be the case. I think the Big 10 does make a point of sharing resources, which is why they have a strong academic reputation. Maybe they have a commissioner's office for academics or something? It's a lot more than just an athletic relationship. The Big 12 doesn't really seem to be that way, at least in my narrow experience. If I had to guess, I would bet the Pac-12 works more like the Big 10 than the SEC does.

I think it does.

[3rdgensooner]

I cannot help but laugh at our fellow fans that somehow think Oklahoma is culturally aligned with the west. It can mean a couple of things. One, these fans have never been to the west. Two, they have a obvious biased against the Southeastern United States.

Being a native Okie and now living in AZ, I can assure these fans that we have absolutely zero in common with states like AZ, CA, Oregon and Washington. The culture in the west is a polar opposite of Okie culture. The culture in Oklahoma is predominantly southern. Anyone in doubt needs to do several things. 1. get out of OKC for once. 2. Visit the eastern part of the state - especially the SE. 3.Actually visit states like AZ or California. 4. Look at the US census.
Are you really under the impression that you are the only one on this board who has done these things?


Okies. Whether you like it or not, we are southern. Our tea is sweet, we have a dereliction for deep fried foods, we speak with a drawl and have much more in common with the old south. You don't describe me or anyone in my 3 generation Oklahoma extended family.

[College Sports Rivalry]

Say what? The football team exists because of higher education. We don't have colleges to facilitate football; we have football to facilitate the improvement of higher education. OU is at the top in football. Boren wants OU academics to be at top aslo. God bless him. It has nothing to do with impressing people.

I am saying that history shows that aligning with higher ranking academic Universities has not proven to improve that institution(s) ranking. In the case of some schools, it has dropped. OU is still over a thousand miles from Cal Berkeley and will never be on par with that institution regarding academics. In OU's case, football pays for academics. Period.

What will happen regarding football if we go to the Pac 12: It will created record viewership the first couple of years. Once the newness wears thin, people will begin to realize this is more about money and less about culture and tradition -sales drop. Cal Fans are not going to be the rival fan base people think. Neither will ASUor UofA. There is no geographical animosity and no cultural tie. They don't care. They went to the game to drink. (See ASU)

We can pretend that sports don't build these institutions. We can pretend that academics build better football programs, or is contagious, but in the end - these states have zero in common with us and extremely far removed from us geographically.

[mdklatt]

I think it does.

It would be awesome if the proposal process was the same at all member universities. Oh man, imagine if routing a grant application to a different university was no more difficult than routing it to a different department. And if proposals had support and matching funds at the conference level as well as the university level.

Not sure I'd want to add another level of auditing though....

[mdklatt]

I am saying that history shows that aligning with higher ranking academic Universities has not proven to improve that institution(s) ranking. In the case of some schools, it has dropped.

It depends on the nature of the alignment. If it's strictly an athletic alliance, than no, it won't make a difference. Which schools had their academic reuptations drop by joining which conferences?

[College Sports Rivalry]

Are you really under the impression that you are the only one on this board who has done these things?

You don't describe me or anyone in my 3 generation Oklahoma extended family.

Trace your family tree, Then get back to me. While's you are at it, head down the Indian Nation Turnpike. I never said Oklahoma didn't have settlement from other parts of the Country. But the South, by far is its main contributor. Enough to shape the culture.

And no I am not saying I am the only one. But people thinking we are western and resemble the culture in AZ have clearly not been there. U.S settlement moved from east to west. Grab a history book.

[picasso]

Trace your family tree, Then get back to me. While's you are at it, head down the Indian Nation Turnpike. I never said Oklahoma didn't have settlement from other parts of the Country. But the South, by far is its main contributor. Enough to shape the culture.

And no I am not saying I am the only one. But people thinking we are western and resemble the culture in AZ have clearly not been there. U.S settlement moved from east to west. Grab a history book.
oops

[College Sports Rivalry]

It depends on the nature of the alignment. If it's strictly an athletic alliance, than no, it won't make a difference. Which schools had their academic reuptations drop by joining which conferences?

FSU. 79th in the United States in the Academic Ranking of World Universities.

[picasso]

Ever been to Winslow or Payson? They sound like they're from Hulbert. But yeah, Scottsdale is a different animal.
I went to basketball camp in the valley in 1984. They called me and my roomie (from Joplin) Okie.

[College Sports Rivalry]

Been to Payson, Pine and all the towns along the Bee Line Highway. They talk, act and resemble nothing that would remotely remind me of Oklahoma.

[3rdgensooner]

Trace your family tree, Then get back to me. While's you are at it, head down the Indian Nation Turnpike. I never said Oklahoma didn't have settlement from other parts of the Country. But the South, by far is its main contributor. Enough to shape the culture.

And no I am not saying I am the only one. But people thinking we are western and resemble the culture in AZ have clearly not been there. U.S settlement moved from east to west. Grab a history book.You're condescension is not helping your point and, frankly, your posts have an air of elitism.

[Soonerfan88]

My great-grandparents came from Illinois, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and New York. Their migration led them to Missouri and Indian Territory where my grandparents were born. My parents were born in Nebraska & Oklahoma. I love chicken fried steak, okra, and grits. And I have just as much in common with my cousins in Merced, CA as I do those in Bastrop, LA.

I prefer the Pac-12 over the SEC because of it's academic and not-so-dirty reputation, USC & Oregon notwithstanding.

[College Sports Rivalry]

You're condescension is not helping your point and, frankly, your posts have an air of elitism.

I'm not trying to come across that way. Although I am not the one offended at being labeled southern. I see a move to the Pac 12 to be a huge mistake, and many Sooner fans feel this way. Whether we like it or not, these aspects play a huge role in the success of our program. Diluting the culture does nothing for the intensity of the game. I think anyone willing to admit it can clearly see that if we are to chose a relocation, the SEC is a closer and more culturally plausible destination. It's not all about academics, We need to face some realities surrounding a move west - that are indeed important.

[College Sports Rivalry]

My great-grandparents came from Illinois, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and New York. Their migration led them to Missouri and Indian Territory where my grandparents were born. My parents were born in Nebraska & Oklahoma. I love chicken fried steak, okra, and grits. And I have just as much in common with my cousins in Merced, CA as I do those in Bastrop, LA.

I prefer the Pac-12 over the SEC because of it's academic and not-so-dirty reputation, USC & Oregon notwithstanding.

That's all well and good. It still doesn't mean you are a reflection or the majority regarding the state.

[silverwheels]

Yes, let's go to the SEC, which is a cesspool of academics and ethics, and put ourselves even further in the NCAA's microscope.

[silverwheels]

That's all well and good. It still doesn't mean you are a reflection or the majority regarding the state.

Get over yourself already, sheesh.

[College Sports Rivalry]

Yes, let's go to the SEC, which is a cesspool of academics and ethics, and put ourselves even further in the NCAA's microscope.

are you aware that several SEC schools outrank OU in academics? Florida is a member of the AAU.

[silverwheels]

are you aware that several SEC schools outrank OU in academics? Florida is a member of the AAU.

So do several Big 12 schools. But the SEC has been known to relax their academic standards beyond what the Big 12 schools do as far as admitting athletes goes.

UT, Kansas, Missouri, A&M, and Iowa State are also all members of the AAU.

[College Sports Rivalry]

So do several Big 12 schools. But the SEC has been known to relax their academic standards beyond what the Big 12 schools do as far as admitting athletes goes.

UT, Kansas, Missouri, A&M, and Iowa State are also all members of the AAU.

And that has helped OU reach that level how? What is your argument against the SEC? That it will be harder to win? I really hope not.

[silverwheels]

And that has helped OU reach that level how? What is your argument against the SEC? That it will be harder to win? I really hope not.

My argument against the SEC is I do not like the entire culture surrounding it. I'm fine with the competition being tougher. Our boosters will just step up and get on the SEC's level as far as making sure we continue to get elite players. So I'm not worried about winning. I'm worried about what comes with it.

[mdklatt]

While's you are at it, head down the Indian Nation Turnpike. I never said Oklahoma didn't have settlement from other parts of the Country. But the South, by far is its main contributor. Enough to shape the culture.

Most of Oklahoma is not like SE Oklahoma, and SE Oklahoma might be considered more hillbilly than Southern. But why are you discounting the entire western half of the state? It doesn't matter where somebody's great great peepaw came from, it matters how we live now. No one is going to confuse Tulsa or Oklahoma City with Birmingham. Hell, Dallas is more Southern than Oklahoma City or Tulsa, and it's not all that Southern.




And no I am not saying I am the only one. But people thinking we are western and resemble the culture in AZ have clearly not been there. U.S settlement moved from east to west. Grab a history book.

Who said we resembled the culture in Arizona? We clearly don't have the Hispanic influence, for one. But we do have McMansions on postage stamp lots just I saw all over Phoenix. Are you one of those ninnies that breaks the US 4-5 cartoon regions like a third grader's Rand McNally puzzle? You think Nebraska and Michigan are similar because they are both "Midwestern", so maybe so. The "Midwest" is more accurately split into the Great Lakes and the Northern Plains. Do you consider western New York to be a Midwestern, because Buffalo is a lot more like Detroit than Detroit is like Kansas City. I think culture has just as much to do with when places were settled as who settled them.

But the bottom line is: WHO THE HELL CARES?! We're not picking a conference based on who does or doesn't drink sweetened ice tea or says "Coke" instead of "soda".

[College Sports Rivalry]

Most of Oklahoma is not like SE Oklahoma, and SE Oklahoma might be considered more hillbilly than Southern. But why are you discounting the entire western half of the state? It doesn't matter where somebody's great great peepaw came from, it matters how we live now. No one is going to confuse Tulsa or Oklahoma City with Birmingham. Hell, Dallas is more Southern than Oklahoma City or Tulsa, and it's not all that Southern.





Who said we resembled the culture in Arizona? We clearly don't have the Hispanic influence, for one. But we do have McMansions on postage stamp lots just I saw all over Phoenix. Are you one of those ninnies that breaks the US 4-5 cartoon regions like a third grader's Rand McNally puzzle? You think Nebraska and Michigan are similar because they are both "Midwestern", so maybe so. The "Midwest" is more accurately split into the Great Lakes and the Northern Plains. Do you consider western New York to be a Midwestern, because Buffalo is a lot more like Detroit than Detroit is like Kansas City. I think culture has just as much to do with when places were settled as who settled them.

But the bottom line is: WHO THE HELL CARES?! We're not picking a conference based on who does or doesn't drink sweetened ice tea or says "Coke" instead of "soda".

They also do not share the same Anglo settlement patters.

I'm sorry. I am not trying to be rude, but you are not clear on the settlement patterns regarding the south. Hillbilly culture is half the equation in southern culture. That culture was centered around the Appalachians and Ozarks. Tennessee also shares more of that culture. Your argument would also discount areas in NC, Virginia and Kentucky as being southern. SE, Oklahoma hillbilly more than southern? LMAO That's a good one. The museums and monuments surrounding that area say otherwise. The people living there say otherwise. Almost 70 percent of Oklahomans consider themselves southern McCurrtain County is less than an hour from the LA line. That was not accurate in the least.

Many care and can see that culture is a major part of the equation.

[mdklatt]

Yes, let's go to the SEC, which is a cesspool of academics and ethics, and put ourselves even further in the NCAA's microscope.

Is the SEC really a "cesspool" of academics, though? Other than the "student" athletes I mean. Vanderbilt, Georgia, and Florida are pretty good schools. Alabama is probably on par with OU overall. Conversely, I don't think ASU or Washington State are great shakes academically. Joining the SEC wouldn't exactly be slumming it--who are we, Harvard?--but the Pac-12 could help us.

You've certainly got a point about ethics. Yikes.

[silverwheels]

Is the SEC really a "cesspool" of academics, though? Other than the "student" athletes I mean. Vanderbilt, Georgia, and Florida are pretty good schools. Alabama or Auburn probably aren't any worse than OU. Conversely, I don't think ASU or Washington State are great shakes academically. Joining the SEC wouldn't exactly be slumming it--who are we, Harvard?--but the Pac-12 could help us.

You've certainly got a point about ethics. Yikes.

That's my sticking point. They lower their standards for athletes more than most schools and conferences.


And yes, the SEC does have Vanderbilt, Florida, and Georgia. The Pac-12 has the 4 California schools, Washington, and Colorado. Overall, it is a better conference academically. Going to the SEC is just admitting that all OU cares about is football, when Boren has done his best (and done well) at changing the academic reputation of OU. There's a multitude of reasons to go to either conference, but I prefer the Pac-12, and Boren apparently does, too.

[College Sports Rivalry]

My argument against the SEC is I do not like the entire culture surrounding it. I'm fine with the competition being tougher. Our boosters will just step up and get on the SEC's level as far as making sure we continue to get elite players. So I'm not worried about winning. I'm worried about what comes with it.

Pal, In Oklahoma, college football is king. In Alabama, college football is king. In Arizona, college football is not king - nor is it in California, Washington, Oregon or Utah. And, they are considerably further away. I would rather watch OU face teams like LSU, Arkansas, Bama and Georgia than I would likely travel or turn on the set to watch OU demoralize ASU, UofA, and UCLA.

[sooner59]

Hey Baylor, this ain't helping your perception. Hell, your colors are bad enough...recruits are eliminating you based on your ugly-*** uniforms, lol.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Elite-recruit-eliminates-Baylor-because-he-doesn?urn=ncaab-wp4726

[College Sports Rivalry]

And who seriously thinks we are going to steal the best recruits out of CA from USC?

[silverwheels]

Pal, In Oklahoma, college football is king. In Alabama, college football is king. In Arizona, college football is not king - nor is it in California, Washington, Oregon or Utah. And, they are considerably further away. I would rather watch OU face teams like LSU, Arkansas, Bama and Georgia than I would likely travel or turn on the set to watch OU demoralize ASU, UofA, and UCLA.

"Pal", I'm well aware of what college football is in Oklahoma and the rest of the South. That still had nothing to do with that post.

[silverwheels]

And who seriously thinks we are going to steal the best recruits out of CA from USC?

We don't have to get the "best" recruits from California. We don't always get the "best" recruits out of Texas, either, and we have still done well for ourselves.

[JiminyChristmas]

Is anyone else starting to get the sickening feeling that the conference formerly known as the Big XII is going to survive and we are staying put?

[silverwheels]

Is anyone else starting to get the sickening feeling that the conference formerly known as the Big XII is going to survive and we are staying put?

I'd be okay with it if A&M stayed as well. Maybe pick up a couple of schools down the road. If they leave and/or other conferences expand past 12, though, I want out.

[3rdgensooner]

Pal, In Oklahoma, college football is king. In Alabama, college football is king. In Arizona, college football is not king - nor is it in California, Washington, Oregon or Utah. And, they are considerably further away. I would rather watch OU face teams like LSU, Arkansas, Bama and Georgia than I would likely travel or turn on the set to watch OU demoralize ASU, UofA, and UCLA.Football is king in Eugene OR. And the game day environment for WashU is pretty serious as well.

[College Sports Rivalry]

"Pal", I'm well aware of what college football is in Oklahoma and the rest of the South. That still had nothing to do with that post.

I think you are misunderstanding my passion for the subject. I see your point from the previous post and will address it. I think college football is changing regarding ethics. With the latest scandals revolving around Miami and Oregon, and the NCAA's current crackdown, I think we will be seeing less of this in the years to come. Oklahoma has not been the little angel either. I hear your concerns. In the end, OU is responsible for what OU does in terms of ethics. I don't see us being aligned with the SEC to change that in any regard. They have an established network and a huge recruiting potential We are a top notch program. We deserve that.

My bigger concerns revolve around going to a conference that doesn't make very much sense in many areas. The Pac 12 is not exactly squeaky clean either. USC isn't even eligible, and Oregon is being investigated as we speak on recruiting violations.

[mdklatt]

They also do not share the same Anglo settlement patters.

I'm sorry. I am not trying to be rude, but you are not clear on the settlement patterns regarding the south. Hillbilly culture is half the equation in southern culture.


Is Missouri a better fit in the SEC or the Big 10? South of I-44 is hillbilly/Southerner central, so never mind the decidedly Midwestern northern part of the state, right? You keep mentioning SE Oklahoma. We keep trying to tell you, SE Oklahoma is NOT LIKE the rest of Oklahoma. Regardless of whose great great grandparents ****ed whom from whichever part of Dixie, what matters is the way we live and view ourselves NOW. And How does the ubiquitous Native American influence factor into your analysis? Don't try to tell me that Choctaws and Cherokees are Southerners just because they came from from Georgia.

Look, your treatise on ethnogeography has been fascinating, but--again--what in the hell does that have to do with joining an athletic conference? Even if I were to concede that Oklahoma is unequivocally Southern from Boise City to Broken Bow, and we all spend our Sunday afternoons whistlin' Dixie and drinking mint juleps in our seersucker finery, how does it follow that we're better off playing football against Alabama than Arizona?

[sooner59]

At this point, I would be fine with A&M staying and it staying intact. That WILL NEVER happen, though. Aggies' pride would take too big of a hit. They are gone even if they are forced into going Indy for a year. BYU as a replacement? That wouldn't make the conference any stronger. It would add some money, but the national perception wouldn't be there. And we would still be forced to expand to stay relevant, because A&M WILL end up in the SEC eventually, which means, they will go to 14 at least. That means PAC expands in response. B1G does the same. ACC/Big East goes into chaos. The Big 12 would only get some scrubs. It ain't looking good for the Big 12's future. I bet Boren is already looking for a vacation home in Cali.

[College Sports Rivalry]

Football is king in Eugene OR. And the game day environment for WashU is pretty serious as well.

Eugene is a town, not a state. I would argue that. It's a college town. You don't see many 4X4's with two Oregon flags mounted like they are going to war - as you commonly see in Oklahoma. :subdued:

[JiminyChristmas]

You think there's any chance at all that aTm stays though? I think they've got to be so pissed that they are gone somehow, someway either now or a year from now.

Starting to fear that the conference is going to settle for BYU as 10th team, and then add 2 more mid-majors to get back to 12 at some point.

[sooner59]

All of that doesn't mean ****. The only thing that matters in this is football prestige, academics, and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Give Boren a truth serum and that is what he will say.

[College Sports Rivalry]

Is Missouri a better fit in the SEC or the Big 10? South of I-44 is hillbilly/Southerner central, so never mind the decidedly Midwestern northern part of the state, right? You keep mentioning SE Oklahoma. We keep trying to tell you, SE Oklahoma is NOT LIKE the rest of Oklahoma. Regardless of whose great great grandparents ****ed whom from whichever part of Dixie, what matters is the way we live and view ourselves NOW. And How does the ubiquitous Native American influence factor into your analysis? Don't try to tell me that Choctaws and Cherokees are Southerners just because they came from from Georgia.

Look, your treatise on ethnogeography has been fascinating, but--again--what in the hell does that have to do with joining an athletic conference? Even if I were to concede that Oklahoma is unequivocally Southern from Boise City to Broken Bow, and we all spend our Sunday afternoons whistlin' Dixie and drinking mint juleps in our seersucker finery, how does it follow that we're better off playing football against Alabama than Arizona?

Culture

[silverwheels]

That is a legitimate concern. I don't think Boren would let OU end up in that kind of conference, though, but who knows. I glean a significant amount of enjoyment and entertainment from college sports, specifically OU, but if it stops being entertaining and enjoying, I have no problem finding something else to do with my time. It would suck, but I'd get over it.

[sooner59]

Culture

Read my post above yours. That is the cold hard truth.

[MeMyself&Me]

I can trace my family tree through Mizzou, Tennessee, pre revolution Virginia, then England. However, I have no family that I know in the south. I have A LOT of family that live in California that I know.

I have always viewed OK culture as being more in line with TX than anywhere else. SEC isn't just 'south', it's mostly 'old south' which isn't what OK and TX is.

That said, I don't like the SEC deal for several reason that have little to do with 'culture'. After all, I don't give a damn about the 'culture' of the teams we beat each week.

For one, 'old south' has an image problem with being poor and ignorant. Whether that's deserved is another discussion but Oklahoma, and particularly an institution of learning like OU, would be better served to be associated with other areas of the country. For an example, my wife LOVES True Blood which plays on this stereotype so hard I literally grind my teeth to sit through an episode of that show. If you're not familiar with that show, watch a few episodes so you can see how the rest of the country views the 'old south'.

Second, the academic reputation of the Pac is better than the SEC. Whether deserved or not, SEC does not conjure thoughts of academic excellence and since most of the college rankings have a 'perceived' and 'reputation' element in them, who you are associated with athletically does matter. As an alum, that is important.

Third, OU has virtually no history with the SEC teams. None really. If it's just OU and aTm going to the SEC, then we would have more history with aTm than anyone else... and that's not saying much. I've always liked the history element in college football match ups. In the SEC, we'd be starting over. Almost like saying the previous 100 years didn't matter... and oh does OU have a great history. In the Pac, at least we'd definitely be taking OSU and maybe Texas or Kansas/Mizzo and then there's Colorado who's already there... at least someone. In the B1G, we could renew with Nebbish and in theory, we'd be going with Texas too. Again, in the SEC, the most history we'd have is with aTm.

Fourth, although I've had good experience with Alabama fans, when I think of SEC fans, I think of the LSU fans that were in New Orleans the year OU played them for the NC. I would never be for joining a conference that had ONE school that had a fan base like that. I don't want to go to their place, and I don't want them to come to Norman either. This has nothing to do with 'manning up' or being tough. I should feel safe to take my FAMILY to a game. By the way, you want to talk about 'football culture'? We are NOT anything like LSU fans, and to suggest such I would find infinitely insulting.

Fifth, in the Pac, OU looks to strengthen California recruiting ties that Stoops has built up during his tenure. Although with a move to the SEC, I think OU would eventually recruit better in traditional SEC country, there's no indication that we'd see that right away. Sure took Arky a long time to adjust.

Sixth, Pac destinations are just more attractive to me. Weird people don't bother me that much I guess. Elitists do bother me quite a bit but we get plenty of that just associating with Texas (FWIW, being an elitist is not the same as being elite).

[College Sports Rivalry]

All of that doesn't mean ****. The only thing that matters in this is football prestige, academics, and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Give Boren a truth serum and that is what he will say.

Bigger more exciting games = more tickets sold and more televisions sets tuned in = more money for the University. SEC country has better athletes than western states - even California. SEC country has more college football fans.

[silverwheels]

Culture

That doesn't answer his question at all. That word and your usage of it is what he is questioning.

[3rdgensooner]

Eugene is a town, not a state. I would argue that. It's a college town. You don't see many 4X4's with two Oregon flags mounted like they are going to war - as you commonly see in Oklahoma. :subdued:Your arguments are tedious. But yes you do see flags flying.

[sooner59]

You can't let OU football go. Its a drug harder than heroine.

[silverwheels]

There's always midget porn, though, right?

[College Sports Rivalry]

I will say it another way. OU playing Bama or LSU is going to be a much bigger draw than OU playing Texas Tech, ASU, UofA and Colorado. That's not even a matter of opinion.

[silverwheels]

I don't think anyone has said anything to the contrary. That's not the point of discussion with people who prefer the Pac-12.

[mdklatt]

Culture

Eff. That. This state has quite enough insularity as is. We could do with having our horizons broadened. Look at this way. The SEC is more like the way are now, but maybe the PAC-12 is more like the way we want be going forward. First and foremost we're an institution of higher learning, not a football factory.

Besides, it would be hella sweet to tap into the Pacific Islander pipeline for linemen.

[College Sports Rivalry]

I don't think anyone has said anything to the contrary. That's not the point of discussion with people who prefer the Pac-12.

It should be. If it's academics, than why are we all on a college sports board?

[sooner59]

Bigger more exciting games = more tickets sold and more televisions sets tuned in = more money for the University. SEC country has better athletes than western states - even California. SEC country has more college football fans.

You can't sell more tickets when every damn game is sold out anyway. We don't get money from "other team's" home games. TVs are the difference, yes. But OU in a national product. People will tune in regardless of the conference. Some hate us. Some love us. They all want to watch us play for different reasons. The money will be there in either conference from TV deals. SEC would not help us get in the AAU academically/politically. The PAC will put us in route. Boren wants that. Do I think OU in the SEC would be entertaining? Yes. Many people do. But that doesn't change the facts.

[silverwheels]

Eff. That. This state has quite enough insularity as is. We could do with having our horizons broadened. Look at this way. The SEC is more like the way are now, but maybe the PAC-12 is more like the way we want be going forward. First and foremost we're an institution of higher learning, not a football factory.

Besides, it would be hella sweet to tap into the Pacific Islander pipeline for linemen.

I agree.

[sooner59]

If that's what you're into...

[silverwheels]

It should be. If it's academics, than why are we all on a college sports board?

If it's just football, why does the university even attempt to teach students? I can build a straw man, too.

[College Sports Rivalry]

Eff. That. This state has quite enough insularity as is. We could do with having our horizons broadened. Look at this way. The SEC is more like the way are now, but maybe the PAC-12 is more like the way we want be going forward. First and foremost we're an institution of higher learning, not a football factory.

Besides, it would be hella sweet to tap into the Pacific Islander pipeline for linemen.

So the direction we want to go is weaker SOS, further travel and less interesting games. That's awesome.

[JiminyChristmas]

There's always midget porn, though, right?

According to a lot of people on here, only if you belong to the SEC.

[College Sports Rivalry]

If it's just football, why does the university even attempt to teach students? I can build a straw man, too.

Any economics major would admit that football pays the bills at OU.

[sooner59]

Well, to be fair, all of the best midget porn comes out of the SEC...

[silverwheels]

Their midgets are faster, OR SO I'VE BEEN TOLD.

[silverwheels]

Any economics major would admit that football pays the bills at OU.

So we should just stop caring about academics and field just a football team, then, since they pay the bills, right?

[College Sports Rivalry]

So we should just stop caring about academics and field just a football team, then, since they pay the bills, right?

Absolutely not. However, you brought up the fact that four Big XII members were AAU accredited. One of those being UT, our biggest partner. Some of those schools have been members since the 60s. None of that has created membership for OU. Academics have more to do with how we run our state - not what conference we belong to. OU will be OU regardless of the conference. Do you want to travel to Tucson AZ highly medicated on No Doz, or do you want to live magic being played out with a home and home with Bama? Would you like Oregon to be our new border rival with all that rad Nike wear, or would you prefer a rivalry that matches the RRSO with Arkansas?

[mdklatt]

I will say it another way. OU playing Bama or LSU is going to be a much bigger draw than OU playing Texas Tech, ASU, UofA and Colorado. That's not even a matter of opinion.

This only matters if selling football tickets is your main motivation. And maybe it should be when it comes to picking a conference, I don't know. We're going to sell out home games no matter what. And OU-USC? Hell yeah I want to see that, as does most of America. If we can get people to travel Ames and Manhattan, certainly we can sell out our allocation to LA and Seattle. The travel for fans is more difficult to the West Coast, but there's already an existing fan base out there. When I've been to CA I've noticed more OU fans there than anywhere but maybe Texas.

And if we're hoping to raise our academic standards, maybe we can inspire them to step it up on the football field. Honestly, though, they're light years ahead of where they where in the 90s. Oregon and Stanford are legitimate powers, you know USC won't be down for long, UCLA, UW, and Colorado have the tradition so they have the potential, Utah is slowly becoming a force, and it sounds like we'd take Texas, Sand Aggy, and Little Brother with us. That is a formidable football lineup, and not too shabby in all the other sports. Texas would be overjoyed to have other swim teams in the conference. :rolleyes:

[silverwheels]

Absolutely not. However, you brought up the fact that four Big XII members were AAU accredited. One of those being UT, our biggest partner. Some of those schools have been members since the 60s. None of that has created membership for OU. Academics have more to do with how we run our state - not what conference we belong to. OU will be OU regardless of the conference. Do you want to travel to Tucson AZ highly medicated on No Doz, or do you want to live magic being played out with a home and home with Bama? Would you like Oregon to be our new border rival with all that rad Nike wear, or would you prefer a rivalry that matches the RRSO with Arkansas?

I've already told you I don't like anything about the culture of the SEC, so you know what my answer is.

[MeMyself&Me]

Any economics major would admit that football pays the bills at OU.

Where did my tuition go then?

[College Sports Rivalry]

This only matters if selling football tickets is your main motivation. And maybe it should be when it comes to picking a conference, I don't know. We're going to sell out home games no matter what. And OU-USC? Hell yeah I want to see that, as does most of America. If we can get people to travel Ames and Manhattan, certainly we can sell out our allocation to LA and Seattle. The travel for fans is more difficult to the West Coast, but there's already an existing fan base out there. When I've been to CA I've noticed more OU fans there than anywhere but maybe Texas.

And if we're hoping to raise our academic standards, maybe we can inspire them to step it up on the football field. Honestly, though, they're light years ahead of where they where in the 90s. Oregon and Stanford are legitimate powers, you know USC won't be down for long, UCLA, UW, and Colorado have the tradition so they have the potential, Utah is slowly becoming a force, and it sounds like we'd take Texas, Sand Aggy, and Little Brother with us. That is a formidable football lineup, and not too shabby in all the other sports. Texas would be overjoyed to have other swim teams in the conference. :rolleyes:

OU doesn't need money to raise the academic standards. They can raise the bar. The can improve their curriculum. It forces students to work harder and weeds out those dragging the ranking down.

[sooner59]

Wow. They just said that Mizzou's SR kicker had only missed 3 FGs in his career before tonight (and he has been their kicker since at least his sophomore year). But tonight, he has missed 2 FGs.

[College Sports Rivalry]

Where did my tuition go then?

To pay salaries, buy supplies and maintain the campus. This includes paying the electric bills, campus police and landscaping upkeep. Major improvements and new technology is brought in with sports revenue. In OU's case, that is football. Cal Berkeley is not going to buy OU a new science lab for Christmas.

[sooner59]

OU doesn't need money to raise the academic standards. They can raise the bar. The can improve their curriculum. It forces students to work harder and weeds out those dragging the ranking down.

Its not about academic "standards", its about academic "status". That means "as a research university". Students don't have as much to do with this as the professors are their academic research...and the grants that follow them.

[College Sports Rivalry]

OH and donations and grants.