I got a question for the Atheists of the Board

Ok, so the question really is about the Dark Ages before "civilization".

The question was, if there is no god, why do good. The reasons I gave are why.

Whether those consequences are the government, karma, or somebody that's a little more badass than me; doesn't matter. They are still consequences.

 

that doesnt make any sense.......even in the Medieval times - they had a sense of order and societal norms, rules, laws, etc

 

So you're asking, if there are no laws (but there are), what causes people to be good without God?

 

i think thats what Dean was asking

 

Why ask that?

 

I think it has something to do with the veneer of civilization (and laws) that keep us from going caveman on everyone.

 

are we born innately evil? or is that too deep a question for a message board?

 

It's all way too deep for me. But I'll tell you that there's nothing more selfish than a little child. Feed me. Pleasure me. I want. Now.

And all those laws and regs over the eons? Where'd they come from? Whoever was the "god" at the time I'm thinking. This "god" could have been a chief/emporer/etc., or it might have been a bunch of wise guys going "dudes, it ain't cool to do xxx. God/Zeus/Crom/Dagon/Set/or even that murderous SOB Muhammad might not dig that ****.

Who the **** knows?

 

I don't think so. Take the emotion of love as an example, we weren't taught to love our mothers, it was an inherent emotion. Hate, on the other hand, is a learned emotion. I doubt there were cavemen that hated other cavemen because they let their dinosaur poop in their neighbors cave.

 

I asked the question initially. If you're curious as to why I asked, go back to my original post. I'm much too lazy to retype it now.

 

Here is a question for the Christians on the board:

When you sin and ask for forgiveness, are you of the belief that God just forgives you and thats all there is to it, or do you think there is some divine penance if none befalls you from man?

 

Thank you for giving this thread purpose again, Mama. We had discussed ourselves into a corner.

 

If you don't think we're born evil, go to a daycare center and watch all those selfish brats. The #1 thing you'll hear is "MINE!"

Did they learn this behavior from their parents? I doubt it. They just want it all.

And whoever talked about a baby loving it's mother? No they don't. Look no further than a cow/calf relationship. The baby needs it's mother. It's totally reliant on it's mother. If it could get what it needs from somebody else then it would. Love is learned.

Look at cats. Evil little ****ers through and through. Selfish, conniving, and if you think your cat loves you then you're bat**** crazy. If your neighbor puts out the extra-juicy salmon spleen food your cat will quit you like a bad habit.

Of course I don't really have an opinion on any of it. Like I said, too deep...

 

You know....some would say that people are "animalistic" in their natural state.

 

Sin has consequences and should be recognized, repented, and mourned over...for a very a brief time. Once we accepted Jesus Christ we were then dead to sin and its dominion over us. We were transferred into the dominion of grace. We don't have to be guilty and shamed(How can you live victoriously if thats the case?). He gives us the power to overcome sin. God has forgiven my sins past present and future and there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. When God sees me, he sees the Righteousness of Christ. Which makes us sons and heirs and blameless in his sight.

I will continue to struggle with sin until I die, but my goal is to die daily to my flesh/self and surrender every aspect of life to him.

I don't see anywhere in the bible where purgatory is an option.

 

I disagree that love is learned, but you do have a good point about the baby/mama thing. In that instance, "need" is a better word. Also, kids are selfish, I wouldn't say evil. Well, some of them may be evil.

 

How do you explain babies who are born early in prenatal units who improve and grow at a faster rate the more they have their mothers touch, or hear the sound of their voice? Maybe that is a sort of a dependence based familiarity, but I think its also the beginning of the love a child feels for their mommy. I do know they feel love coming from the people who hold and caress them.

 

Yeah Glen!!! See Dean, we are SOOOO much smarter than you!

 

Since the fall of Adam we are all born into sin. Which means no matter how "Good" we think we are it is all filthy rags in the presence of a holy, just, and perfect God. Therefore we need grace and mercy and a new heart and mind. The Cross substitutes our inadequacies for Christ ultimate adequacy. We can't earn Gods favor but we can accept the free gift of Gods love i.e. Christs sacrifice and atonement.

 

Uh, they're ****ing retards?

Just kidding. Sorta.

Then, when they're 16 they still go full-on effed up dillweed child. That's how it works, no matter how much mommies wanna go "oooooh, ain't my baby cute/special/wonderful/blessed/charmed. I mean it is what it is.