I got a question for the Atheists of the Board

Did I anywhere say raping/pillaging/burning were done by atheists? And what do you mean "sociopath?" I understand what a sociopath is and all, but why would someone who wants it all be a sociopath - unless there is a norm or standard set saying "if you exhibit x behavior then you qualify as a sociopath - and where would this norm/standard come from?

If there's no God, no afterlife, etc. then why the hell not? Complete and total survival of the fittest. No quarter asked or given. No charity, no mercy. Dog eat dog.

My question is why wouldn't an atheist be compelled to go all Berzerker? WTH not? Conscience? Why have one if there's no ramifications/punishment? Or could a conscience by something God has given us? Or, let's just say we drop all the raping/pillaging stuff and go with oh....adultery? Why not bang your neighbor's old lady? The only place I know it says that's a no-no is in the Bible. My bulls bang all the cows and heifers they can stick their pecker into. It works in the animal world, why not with humans?

Deep subject.

 

By the way, I'm not an athiest. I'm more of an agnostic.

Take THAT trainwreck thread!!

 

It's really not that deep.

By the way, that is 100% sociapathic behavior.

 

Dude, really? You needed to post a Webster's "wtf is a sociopath?" C'mon man...

Who says it's antisocial? I mean who has determined this? Where do the norms come from? Why is it wrong to be antisocial? And yes, it is a very deep subject.

 

Christopher Hitchens died (last year I think) -considered highly intellectual, wrote books - and debated the whole atheist agenda..did not believe in God at all

before his death - he issued a statement (and i cant find it on the googles) that basically said - that any utterance of a deathbed conversion to Christ - was to be attributed to the drugs he was on at the time, or the effects of chemo on his brain - and that Christians should not take any such utterances as a real conversion.

A couple of thoughts come to mind: if he truly deep down believed as he said he did - leaving not one single percent chance that God truly did exist - then why would he ever need to issue such a statement?

and if he believes in evolution and the notion of natural selection - the scientific thinning of the herd so to speak - then why did he - and so many other atheists fight natural disease with medicine - especially cancer? whats the point.....if nature has selected you to die early from disease - why isn't that accepted for what it is?

what's the point of fighting for your life at that point - if there is no after life or here after? I understand that we have advanced medical science that prolongs our life and that "if its available why would anybody turn it down" - so i'm speaking philosophically

 

I think a definition of sociopath seemed pretty relevant, since you were unclear.

And...ok. You seem to be coming unhinged. I'll exit.

 

or maybe in millions of years of evolution having a conscience and not banging your neighbor's mate has had advantages in surviving.

 

I hope you didn't take the question as "what a moron!". The reason I asked is because I've always believed in God, so from my perspective, it's very easy for me to understand what motivates people to "do the right thing". Just trying to gain some perspective from the other side. Not really easy to explain my thought process over the internet, but there's more to it than "why do good?". Make sense?

 

Dean elaborates on my question much better than I did.

 

I think its more complicated than that. What if you know what you have done is wrong and you are also living a life failing to forgive others who trespass against you?

 

Unhinged? Somebody named tator is calling me unhinged? That's rich.

 

Nice copout. Weak, but nice.

 

something from nothing, what's not to believe? God's nature is another matter, of course.

 

i think faith in God is largely on his terms....not our own (deism)

we have the freedom of choice to make the decision to believe....or not

but if we believe and shape/mold God into what we want him to be - then it's not really the same thing

 

Pascal's Wager also presupposes that the only God is the Christian God and that the choice is believing based on that set of rules. It ignores the fact that most religions preach that non-believers are not saved, so if any one of those happens to be "correct" then it by default makes all of the others incorrect. You not only have to choose to believe, but in the precisely correct manner, which decreases your odds by orders of magnitude.

 

True forgiveness is not complicated at all. Holding grudges, judging with unequal weights, and conditional forgiveness is complicated.

Where I think you are coming from is a discussion of grace. It's free, but we cheapen it when we continue to live a lifestyle that implies we don't appreciate the cost of it. Along the same lines scripture does say that we can't be forgiven if we don't also offer forgiveness.

But my response was specifically for the comment of the "paradox" of christians that have a "you'll get yours" attitude. That's not the heart of God at all, and any christian that thinks that way isn't resembling Dad very much.

 

This is so abstract that I'm not going to try and understand what you meant or respond to the content. If you'd like to elaborate a little I'd be more than happy to "get it".

 

if you want to read about cheap grace - pick up Dietrich Bonhoefer's "The Cost of Discipleship" and read the first chapter....he's a brilliant theologian - but SUPER tough to read...most can pick out enough nuggets to get his message

 

I'm more of an agnostic rather than an atheist. I was a Christian for many years and was a deacon/elder/board head of two different churches in my 30s. I eventually came to realize that I didn't believe in the God portrayed in the Bible. There were too many inconsistencies for me. There is the one part of the Ten Commandments that says "for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me". This was always conveniently left off in most talks I heard on the commandments in church. I also eventually came to realize that people in the church were no better than the ones I knew that were not religious. They were just more hypocritical about it all.

I fully believe that we learn our mores from being raised by parents in the right way with some of them just being inherent as we grow up. There are always going to be the deviants (sociopaths, psychopaths, etc.) that aren't born with any sort of filter. Religion or being raised with parents that teach right from wrong is going to do nothing to those. I don't steal, because I don't want to be stolen from. I don't cheat on my wife as I love her and don't want to hurt her. I try and teach my children right from wrong, and I don't need the threat of going to hell for them to get it.

I don't try and ridicule other's beliefs as I do believe that the vast majority of people who go to churches aren't anymore hypocritical and do the right things and certaintly probably think about it more than I do. There are certain things I don't like however which will cause me to speak up.

I don't like the pro-creation science crowd. Creation is not a science and should not be taught as such.

I am pro gay marriage/civil unions/whatever you want to call it. This mainly harkens back to equal treatment for all. We have many gay/lesbian couples raising children these days, and it behooves us to protect these families and couples.

I don't like it when it is God's will when anything bad happens. If so, this is a God that is an a****** which I believe someone else mentioned above.

I have had Christians ask if my autistic son is demon-possessed. Huh? Really? You want me to take anything coming out of your mouth seriously?

I also get seriously tired of being looked at crosswise if I say I'm agnostic/atheist. Yes, your belief system says you should try and convert me, but it is likely I know more about the Bible and Christianity than the person who is trying to convert me. I came to my beliefs through lots and lots of reading, research and soul-searching. As an agnostic/atheist I get criticized for my beliefs, so if someone hits me there, I will hit back. Sorry, I didn't mean this to be so long, but I had a lot to say.

 

Agreed.

A more recent book by John Bevere called Extraordinary talks about grace in a light I've never heard it preached/discussed. Changed a whole lot of my mindsets. It's a very easy read also.