2015 football commit Safety JAMILE JOHNSON

What was "reported"? I'm lost, I don't know exactly what you mean.

As for this:

Look at Chuka Ndulue: Senior Year in high school: 240 lbs End of junior year at OU: 275 lbs - First, if he weighs 275 lbs, then I'm Superman. He's closer to 300, but for the sake of this example, let's go with 275. That's a 35 lb gain in 3 years.

Look at Gabe Ikard: Senior Year in high school: 240 lbs End of senior year at OU: 300 lbs. That's a 60 lb gain in 4 years.

Look at Brennan Clay: End of junior year in high school: 176 lbs End of senior year at OU: 201 lbs. That's 25 lbs.

Of course smaller players (DBs, WRs, etc) aren't going to gain 50 pounds in four years, but if you look at the "bad weight" they lose in combination with the muscle mass gained, it's much closer than you think.

Again, I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing, but to be clear, my point is that it's not crazy to think that what a kid weighs his junior year in high school may not be close to what he weighs by the time he's done at OU. I suspect it's the norm.


EDIT: I went back and re-read your post, and I understand what you meant by "that's what was reported". Sorry, I'm dense sometimes. Anyway, I still think a players body is much different his junior year in high school versus the time of graduation (or departure) from OU. It may not show up if you compare weight his junior year to weight his senior year, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Things have changed a lot at the high school level in recent years, but even the best football programs don't compare to an elite S&C/Nutrition program at an elite college level. There's just no way a kid can spend four years in a program like that and walk away unchanged.

 

Junior Senior, doesn't matter, which, whatever information I can find. These are reported numbers by Sooner resource, soonerstats.com

[TABLE="width: 740"]
[TR]
[TD]Granger[/TD]
[TD]DeMarcus[/TD]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]DT[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]320[/TD]
[TD]2009[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]327[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Williams[/TD]
[TD]Trent[/TD]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]OT[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]321[/TD]
[TD]2009[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]318[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Beal[/TD]
[TD]Jeremy[/TD]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]DE[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]254[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]267[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]McCoy[/TD]
[TD]Gerald[/TD]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]DT[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]289[/TD]
[TD]2009[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]297[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mensik[/TD]
[TD]Eric[/TD]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]TE/OL[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]246[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]288[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Alexander[/TD]
[TD]Frank[/TD]
[TD]2007[/TD]
[TD]DE[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]235[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]255[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Broyles[/TD]
[TD]Ryan[/TD]
[TD]2007[/TD]
[TD]WR[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]175[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]188[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lewis[/TD]
[TD]Travis[/TD]
[TD]2007[/TD]
[TD]LB[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]220[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]227[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stephenson[/TD]
[TD]Donald[/TD]
[TD]2007[/TD]
[TD]OT[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]275[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]307[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]32[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Proctor[/TD]
[TD]Sam[/TD]
[TD]2007[/TD]
[TD]DB[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]202[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]222[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hanna[/TD]
[TD]James[/TD]
[TD]2008[/TD]
[TD]TE[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]215[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]243[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jones[/TD]
[TD]Landry[/TD]
[TD]2008[/TD]
[TD]QB[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]211[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]218[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]King[/TD]
[TD]David[/TD]
[TD]2008[/TD]
[TD]DE[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]240[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]286[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Walker[/TD]
[TD]Casey[/TD]
[TD]2008[/TD]
[TD]DT[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]285[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]309[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Habern[/TD]
[TD]Ben[/TD]
[TD]2008[/TD]
[TD]OC[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]275[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]286[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Harris[/TD]
[TD]Lamar[/TD]
[TD]2008[/TD]
[TD]DB[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]180[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]186[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]McGee[/TD]
[TD]Stacey[/TD]
[TD]2008[/TD]
[TD]DT[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]265[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]300[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ratterree[/TD]
[TD]Trent[/TD]
[TD]2008[/TD]
[TD]TE[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]232[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]248[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Good[/TD]
[TD]Stephen[/TD]
[TD]2008[/TD]
[TD]OL[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]305[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]305[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Aladenoye[/TD]
[TD]Josh[/TD]
[TD]2009[/TD]
[TD]OL[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]342[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]316[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wort[/TD]
[TD]Tom[/TD]
[TD]2009[/TD]
[TD]LB[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]220[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]237[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Johnson[/TD]
[TD]Lane[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]TE/OL[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]264[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]303[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jefferson[/TD]
[TD]Tony[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]DB[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]198[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]212[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wilson[/TD]
[TD]Julian[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]DB[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]176[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]195[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Aaron[/TD]
[TD]Colvin[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]DB[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]176[/TD]
[TD]2013[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]182[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bell[/TD]
[TD]Blake[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]QB[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]234[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]263[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gastelum[/TD]
[TD]Caleb[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]LB[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]208[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]211[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Grissom[/TD]
[TD]Geneo[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]DE[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]233[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]254[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nelson[/TD]
[TD]Corey[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]LB[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]208[/TD]
[TD]2013[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]215[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Thompson[/TD]
[TD]Tyrus[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]OT[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]311[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]316[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

The above listed is 30 players. I didnt go searching for certain numbers. I just clicked on a player from soonerstats.com and inserted their numbers.

In other words, I didnt click on every player on the roster from 2008 to 2010.

give me more time and I will make sure I do. This is just a start.

JKM, these numbers reflect from the time they signed with OU, to the time they left OU. all players listed above were at OU a minimum of 4 years. Most 5 years. the 2010 class, most are still at OU, so their final weights are not certain, just what is being reported as of last football season.

JKM, if you can find me legitimate numbers from their Junior season, then I will plug them into the spreadsheet.

If you can't then lets be honest, your 40-50# number you threw out there is a little absurd.

 

eom

 

8timechamp...

I am arguing the opinion of JKM that players regularly gain 40-50 pounds from their Junior year in high school to the time they graduate college.

Coaching high school ball, I can say with confidence, most kids that go on to play college ball, do not gain 40-50 pounds from Junior year to the time they graduate college.

I will say that if their position requires it, and/or they make a position change, then I can see it happening more regularly. But on average, it does not.

And when some guy just throws out the opinion that a DB in high school will gain 40-50 pounds, just shows us his lack of knowledge when throwing numbers out there.

What cracks me up the most is he feels that a DB should weigh around 165 his junuior year in high school...LOL

 

he may have threw a specific number out there talking about something that can't be verified, but anyone with half a brain understands exactly what he was getting at. you (75) get so insecure about yourself every time he posts that you will try to pick apart his semantics for 4 pages and end up in the same spot everytime, "I COACH HIGH SCHOOL BALL. I PLAYED IN THE BIG 12 SO I KNOW."

a kid that is already a solid 6'1 190 as a junior in high school does not project as a corner the vast majority of the time. there is no scientific way to measure the numbers because every kid's body is different. the kid could end up a solid 188 pound corner, or he could be up around 220-230 and end up as an edge rusher or mike backer. who knows? but the majority of the time, a kid with his frame as a junior does not project as a corner and you know it.

 

There is no insecurity about it. The guy threw out a number with a bunch of "opinions" backing up his claim.

I presented some facts to combat his opinion. To blindly throw out a number range of 40-50# without the ability to back it up has set himself up for this debate or argument.

That said, I wouldn't expect someone such as yourself to understand this. Go through history of this site and you will find your drivel that is well, drivel.

Obviously you have failed to read much of what I have said. Johnson is built like a safety, but has been recruited as a Corner.

Then combat what JKM said, i gave actual numbers of players, from the time they reported to OU, till the time they were at least Seniors, most cases, in their 5th year. None of which even remotely suggests that it is normal for a kid in his position to gain 40-50 pounds.

So don't come at me like I am the bad guy here. If someone wants to blindly throw out numbers without actual credible facts to back it up, then they should be prepared to receive whatever it is they receive during rebuttal.

And if you are going to try to come at me and ridicule me, at least get some facts about me straight. I never once said I played ball in the Big 12. And I will bring up my experiences through playing and coaching, just like you would if there was anything you actually knew, and people actually talked about it.

 

BTW, talked to a guy named Dante Jones. He said gaining 40-50 pounds in this time frame isn't as normal as people want to think either. He also mentioned that it all depends position, body type, etc....kind of like I mentioned....hmmm....

BTW, he did play at OU. And he said he gained about 45 pounds in college, 190 (Senior year HS), 205, 210, 220, 235 his senior year in college. He did say that injury played a part of his weight heading into his senior season at OU.

So now, I have found 3 that gained over 40 pounds.

 

I'm guessing he meant physical stats.

 

Sigh, I feel like you only read the first sentence of my posts and then jump to conclusions.

1. I listed in my "Assumptions" that I was assuming the kid was 16, that he had a weight gaining body type (based on appearance), and that the number listed was accurate.

2. The reason that I chose the number 40-50 wasn't because of weight gained at OU, it was because most males gain a TON of weight between 16 and 19. After that age, LBM gain is incredibly difficult. The normal pattern is massive surge of height (no weight) at 14 (making you look like a beanpole), then big accumulation of weight at 15, then one last growth spurt at 16 followed by massive weight gain over the next 2-3 years with it pretty much tailing off by 19 unless your name is David Robinson. in other words, no where did I say in any of my posts that he was going to gain that weight solely at OU, I said from NOW until he was finished at OU which includes that huge weight gain as a JR.

If you look at my list (which is skewed as I was a year ahead) -> 5'8 130 (FR-14), 5'8 135 (SO-15), 5'10 155 (JR - 16), 5'10 165 (SR - 17), 5'10 187 (FR College - 18) -> You will notice that I gained 32 pounds from 16-18. This kid is 35 LBs heavier than I was as a JR. When you consider that my scrawny self gained 35 LBs in that time, is it that much of a stretch to assume this kid can gain 40?


Now let's look at Derrick Strait, one of your examples. Derrick was born on 8/27/1980 which made him 19 when he got to OU at 5'11 194. In other words, SR- 18, JR-17, SO-16, FR-15. This means 2 things -> 1) he probably followed a growth pattern similar to mine and 2) he was pretty much done growing by the time he got to OU. If he followed something similar to mine, that means he gained roughly 40 lbs from age 16-19 and 33 lbs overall.

That is for a cornerback.

Now, lets look at you. You said you were 280 when you got to college. What were you as a JR (assuming you turned 16 as a JR)? 235? 240?

 

Next one, Dante Jones

Birth Date -> March 23, 1965
Graduation -> 1983

This makes him on a split very similar to my actual one -> 17 SR, 16 JR, 15 SO, 14 FR. He was a lot taller so he was at 190 as a SR whereas I was a paltry 165. However, because of his age he still had room to put on a lot of weight as a FR (15 lbs). Working back, he was probably 170ish as a JR and 140 ish as a FR. 170 to 235 is a 65 lb gain from 16 through college. However, to my original point, more than 1/2 was accumulated in high school (35 lbs) which is where my numbers are coming from.

The central disagreement here revolves around you not recognizing that men gain a LOT of weight between age 16 and 18. Seriously, from 15 to 18 trying to keep boys fed will bankrupt you. I have smoked an extra turkey (which would feed 7) for my neighbor's twin boys when they come over and they are STILL hungry.

 

Heh I just realized that this kid is bigger as a junior than an All American Linebacker was as a SR.

 

Did you play sports in high school and college? If so, was the sport defined with muscle like football or wrestling?

If you did not play sports in college or even high school, please don't try to compare weight gain.

I have now completed a list of all players that were seniors at OU and spent at least 4 years at OU since the senior class of 2008.

Average weight gain from the time they were added to the roster to the time they left OU, average weight gain is less than 12 pounds.

I understand what you are trying to say JKM, but I am afraid you are trying to compare weight gain of a normal exercised growing adolescent body with that of one that is pushing his/her body to the extreme physical pique (Or is it peak?).

I agree, every growing body will gain weight naturally. Hell, from my 9th grade year to my Senior year in high school I gained 60 pounds, but 40 of it was from freshman year to sophomore year (going off wrestling weights). The only weight gain I had my last 3 years was natural weight with growing taller. Went from 6-1 to 6-5 in a span of 3 years.

From my personal experiences, to my job as a coach, I can say with confidence, that most athletes will not gain 40-50 pounds from the time they are 17 to the time they are done with college (average age 22). As long as they are disciplined athletes.

I will upload the pdf file of the info I got of weight growth at OU since 2008. Granted, this information could be seen as misleading, since the information is only from the time they were added to the OU roster till the time they were done at OU. In other words it does not include weights or measurements from their junior years in high school. But i do feel it is a good indicator of my side of the debate.

 

http://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/02/20/weight-differences-1/

 

JKM, when i was also a wrestler, not just a football player. I reported at 280.

I wrestled at 265-270 my final 2 seasons.

Freshman year: heavyweight @ 220-225
Sophomore year: heavyweight @ 260-265
Junior year: heavyweight @ 265-270
Senior Year: heavyweight @265-270.

After wrestling both Junior and Senior year, I hovered between 275 and 280.

I also promised myself in high school I would not weigh more than 280 heading into football. I didn't want to drop a bunch of weight for wrestling. Nor did I want to gain a bunch of weight for football.

Believe it or not, most student athletes that are striving to get a sports scholarship in college are very conscious of their weight. I shot up 40 pounds from Freshman to Sophomore so I could compete on the OL. I also worked my butt off to make it as good of weight as I could, not fat.

I really busted my *** to maintain weight. I can honestly tell you that kids today do the same as I did when they have goals.

In fact, I had a guy come to me last season upset he gained 15 pounds over the summer, he didn't realize that he gained 3 inches over the summer as well. This was a sophomore.

 

Dude I went to Sapulpa, we basically had one set of coaches in the gym so we ALL worked out together regardless of sport (minus wrestling). Wrestling has always been an oddball because most wrestlers are trying to gain strength with no weight. Their program was similar HIIT with them wearing these plastic heat suits while they worked out. Otherwise whether I was in offseason football or baseball, it was the exact same workout in a dingy bomb shelter.

Once again, I'm not saying this either. The only reason I brought it up on this kid was that he is a JUNIOR (which I assumed meant he was 16). As I have said many times in this thread, IF he still has a mass gain curve to go, he COULD be squarely in the tweener category with a 40-50 lb weight gain.

Please note the assumed age has everything to do with that statement. Just between Dante Jones and Derrick Strait we see how much of an age difference there could be in the system. That is a year and half worth of age difference as Seniors.

 

What age as a sophomore? (just to see at what age your weight gain was at)

The wrestling makes the weight gain understandable. As I stated before, they put a premium on strength gain with no weight gain.

 

I graduated at 18.
17-18
16-17
15-16
14-15


Yes, wrestling is a premium when it comes to weight gain. But as a football coach now, we do see growth, but not at the rate that you suggested.

The only time we see it is if the kid is lazy, or we have him switch positions (usually from a skilled position to a line position).

But like I said, the more serious athletes take it very serious. They are very mindful of weight gain.

 

So your numbers actually line up with mine, especially if you had that significant of a growth spurt at the 16 range.

You had the same monster weight gain at 15-16 I did -> You 40, me 20. You probably went from 5'5 to 6'1 the year before whereas I was like 5'2 to 5'8.

Where the difference comes is in the 16-17 range where you had the second major growth spurt (which would have destabilized weight gain until it was done). The question is whether you'd already achieved your frame's athletic max weight or if you were carrying too much bad weight from younger. My guess is that, especially with the Wrestling, you spent that entire time shedding bad weight for LBM (please note that this isn't meant to be offensive, just explaining what might have happened). In other words, had you been at 12-17% body fat like us "shrimps" you would have seen similar weight gains over that time.

 

To be honest, it didn't seem like bad weight. I was far from fat.

However, it was simply amazing what happened when I got to college.

They got me on a new diet. I dropped from 280 to 265 by Christmas (I was red-shirted my freshman year). I was probably in the best shape of my life (muscle wise). After dropping that weight, it seemed like it was taking forever to gain weight back from muscle mass gain.

But after about 3 weeks at 265-267, I started to see results. I started to balloon fast (weight wise) all muscle, not fat. Think high protein, very high protein diet. By the time I reported my sophomore year (freshman year on the field) I weighed 290. I had gained 10 pounds since arriving at college. By the time I reported my 3rd year, I weight 295. My 4th year, 305. My Final year, 315. Total i gained 35 pounds in college...but in the process I shredded 15 pounds and gained 50 pounds of muscle.

at 6'6 inches tall and 315, I was solid. body fat of 17%. It was truly amazing.

Had i not been red-shirted my freshman year, I don't think it would have happened that way. I absolutely hated weight lifting when i first got to college, then I fell in love with it before I was done with semester #1.