I would expect a response like this from somebody with "texas" in their username. Anyway, before I got distracted by the ugly discussion, I was going to bring something up about quitting on your team argument. If you guys think that tarnishes what Pippen did, what about the times that Kobe quit on his team?
Stars don't balk at not getting the winning shot called for them. His infamous "Sitting Bull" acts alone make him a sidekick, not a star.
Once again I'm going to bring up Kobe. What do you make of the stories of Kobe crying and separating himself from his teammates right after championships? His extreme jealousy of Shaq is much worse than Pippen feeling he earned the right to take the final shot. A star player like Pippen isn't going to be a fan of having the ball taken of his hands and put in a rookie's. His being upset is completely understandable. Sitting out of the play was a bad decision, but his teammates quickly forgave him and they went on. It's not as big of a deal as it's made out to be.
I spent a whole summer trying to emulate that shot and finally got it down to where I could hit it about 40 percent of the time...once school started, my coach ran it out of me after taking one in the first practice
Speaking of the Bulls, Does anybody remember who took the 1st shot in 99 percent of their games in the championship run era of Chicago?...Just kind of backs up Skull's point earlier?
sheesh, still with the 1.4 second game argument? PEOPLE WE MOCK PIPPEN IN DETROIT FOR THE MIGRAINE GAME.
Kobe v. Shaq, in retrospect, may very well have been Kobe saying, "Look, I'm the one that works out religiously, cares more about the game than the stuff outside of the game, and am considerably younger," while Shaq's response was probably something like, "Kobe, tell me how my *ss tastes." With Kobe being the kind of player he is, the kind of leader (and he is, even if it's not always the "right" way, necessarily..) that is he, I can see where Shaq showing up overweight, goofing around, etc... for half of the regular season, resulting in a Finals loss to Detroit, mind you... (by the time the Sleeping Giant awoke, it was too little, too late) ..would irk him. the_ouskull
Game 1- Shaq: 34 points (13-16 shooting), 11 rebounds Kobe: 25 points (10-27), 4 assists, 4 rebounds Game 2- Shaq: 29 points (10-20), 7 rebounds Kobe: 33 points (14-27), 7 assists, 4 rebounds Game 3- Shaq: 14 points (7-14), 8 rebounds Kobe: 11 points (4-13), 5 assists, 3 rebounds Game 4- Shaq: 36 points (16-21), 20 rebounds Kobe: 20 points (8-25), 2 assists, 0 rebounds Game 5- Shaq: 20 points (7-13), 8 rebounds Kobe: 24 points (7-21), 4 assists, 3 rebounds That finals loss was not on Shaq at all. In fact, it was basically everybody EXCEPT him. It had more to do with Kobe not being able to keep his **** to himself, and causing a ridiculous amount of distractions. The one game Kobe actually showed up to play, the Lakers won. It also helps that Detroit shot 171 free throws, compared to LA's 111 (+12 FT's per game for Detroit). As for calling Shaq overweight, it's a bit of a stretch. Good luck finding somebody his size with a lower bodyfat that isn't on a ridiculous amount of steroids. Why does everybody make a big deal of this? Why don't people call out Paul Pierce? Pierce is just as soft as Shaq and half the size.
Eilson "texas" is in my user name,only because that's where i live. younger folks don't seem to realize that russell was one of the best. thanx for at least responding to my previous post.
early in this thread there was a list of top 5 all time. someone said they weren't sure if russell belonged on the list. i think he does. i'm only a few weeks late. otherwise,not relevant @ all.
Define "younger folks," 'cause I'd go the other direction and say that "idiots" regardless of age, are the ones that don't realize how good Russell was. He was what basketball should be all about, all the time. As for Shaq v. Kobe... Shaq played his arse off in the Detroit series, no doubt. I said as much. But, once Karl Malone went down, Shaq couldn't do it by himself, and considering that their next best rebounder was Slava Medvedenko with about 3 per game (I'm guessing) it wasn't really Kobe's fault either. Ben Wallce was cranking out about 4 offensive boards per game, and Detroit was out-rebounding L.A. by 12 per game. Other than that one factor, the rest of the series was fairly even. (Shaq's free throw shooting really did hurt L.A. in that series, though. Something else that Kobe ranted about a bit... while going 23/25 in that same series...) But, rebounding wasn't Kobe's responsibility... scoring was. He didn't do so very efficiently, but when Detroit rolled out Rip, and Tayshaun, and and even Lindsey Hunter a lil' bit, to guard Kobe, and L.A. responded with Gary Payton (35) on Chauncey (27), Karl Malone (40) on Rasheed (29), and Kobe chasing Rip through screens all day. Yeah, I can see where they'd be down in the series. Kobe could have shot better, sure, but he was the only person on that whole Lakers team capable of getting his own shot; getting decent looks without the help of his teammates. Having to chase around a player like Rip, through screen after screen (and Detroit's bigs set NICE screens, by the way) and then turn around and get chased the same way, by three different guys, on offense... Even Kobe wore down. Keep in mind, I'm not a Kobe Lover. Usually, I'm the opposite. I'm just discussing the game. the_ouskull
Well, don't keep us waiting, old man/woman. (If you're talking Russell, I'll assume man. ) I'm 36, and have loved basketball for about 50 years. the_ouskull
I agree that it wasn't Kobe fault, but it was more Kobe's than Shaq's. Those two were the only one's that really did anything for LA. Anyway, Kobe has quit on the Lakers. I believe it was Game 7 against the Suns where he took 3 shots. At least Pippen only quit for 1.8 seconds.
Kobe > Pippen. He gets more of a pass. I don't like the rules, and I truly don't have a horse in this race (other than Pippen's face, amiright?) but I think that that's the way history will/does see it. I do. the_ouskull
Except when it comes to championships. And the respect of his teammates. But who cares about those silly things?
Actually since Shaq left you hear that his Lakers teammates have the utmost respect for him. If you dont believe me go ask Derek Fisher, or Gasol, or Artest. Also, Pipp played 2nd fiddle to the greatest basketball player ever to get his rings. Nice Try And one more thing, Pipp still has 3 years on Kobe and Kobe may well win his 5th ring this year. Now, go away as youve pissed me off, I hate defending Kobe, Barf!
