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View Full Version : Replace Kelvin with who?



stoopified
1/14/2006, 11:51 PM
I have asked this question several times in the last few yeats and have yet to get any real answers.
If we did fire Calvin, who are we realistically going to bring in that will lead us to the PROMISED LAND?Well first lets see who we can elimanate right off the bat.Coach K,Pitino,Tubby Smith, they ain"t coming no matter how much money we throw at them.They are traditional b-ball schools which have no football teams capable of overshadowing them.
Knight,Sutton,Self,Barnes: gimme a break, check their records for the last 11 years ,you will find No gap between these guys and KS,besides which one of them is a lunatic,one is in virtual retirement,the third is overated and last barely matches Kelvin's record( besides which he is a close personal friend of KS.
So tell me who will be our Moses and lead us to the PROMISED LAND?

Soonerus
1/15/2006, 12:08 AM
Nobody we keep Kelvin as long as we are fortunate enough to have him....

stoopified
1/15/2006, 12:27 AM
Nobody we keep Kelvin as long as we are fortunate enough to have him....
Exactly my point.We didn't fire Billy when he had less than stellar teams.Or Bud OR Barry ,so why the witch hunt for Kelvin? I think some people are spoiled and forget Rome was not built in a day.

birddog
1/15/2006, 12:55 AM
Yuo can't argue with his winning percentage, I know that. It's amazing he can get a "Top 5" Class to come to play in an environment more fitting for a funeral. I'm not sure what has to change to get people involved in the program. But, don't we say this every year?

OKC-SLC
1/15/2006, 01:40 AM
Chicken or egg, i'm not sure.

But let's seriously not pretend that watching a team go thru 8 minute FG droughts to score in the 40's is going to get many people in the seats at even a basketball school.

NickZeppelin
1/15/2006, 02:08 AM
LNC isn't a great place to play. It's dark, the lighting is bad, and it's not meant for basketball. It's a perfect concert type arena. That being said you can still be loud in there and make it sound great if you just show up and care. I went to the Mizzou game and it was not really empty. I would guess 6k there at the max. For a majority of the game only about 1000 people seemed to even realize a game was going on. I can't believe how our fans just didn't care. You can't have that happen at home games. Especially when you have a winning record and are playing a game that was HUGE for our team.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 09:40 AM
Exactly my point.We didn't fire Billy when he had less than stellar teams.Or Bud OR Barry ,so why the witch hunt for Kelvin? I think some people are spoiled and forget Rome was not built in a day.

Rome did't fall in a day.... either

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 10:49 AM
Yuo can't argue with his winning percentage, I know that. It's amazing he can get a "Top 5" Class to come to play in an environment more fitting for a funeral. I'm not sure what has to change to get people involved in the program. But, don't we say this every year?Style points would go a long way to increase the crowd. I used to go when Tubbs was here and there was NEVER a crowd problem. High flying, up-tempo offense is exciting. Kelvin's style, while ultimately effective is not very fun to watch. I go to about five or six (sam as football) games a year and I always find myself looking at my watch.

To answer the original question, there are quite a few up and coming coaches that would love to come to OU. Heck look at what Barnes has done down at tex and Gillespie at aTm. Those schools have zero basketball tradition like OU.

If Kelvin gets us put on probation, as much as I hate to say it, I think we keep him until sanctions are over and fire him.

CtheB
1/15/2006, 11:33 AM
I have asked this question several times in the last few yeats and have yet to get any real answers.
If we did fire Calvin, who are we realistically going to bring in that will lead us to the PROMISED LAND?Well first lets see who we can elimanate right off the bat.Coach K,Pitino,Tubby Smith, they ain"t coming no matter how much money we throw at them.They are traditional b-ball schools which have no football teams capable of overshadowing them.
Knight,Sutton,Self,Barnes: gimme a break, check their records for the last 11 years ,you will find No gap between these guys and KS,besides which one of them is a lunatic,one is in virtual retirement,the third is overated and last barely matches Kelvin's record( besides which he is a close personal friend of KS.
So tell me who will be our Moses and lead us to the PROMISED LAND?

Don't know exactly, but with the kind of money OU has to throw around, there is definitely some head coach at one of the 317 teams playing D1 basketball that would take the job.

Remember, Kelvin wasn't on anyone's radar when we found him at Wazzu.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 11:38 AM
If the OU job was open the list would be very long....... If we are willing to commit to paying well! How about one of the 10 assistants at Duke?

John Beilein
Head Coach is one name..

Again if the job were open- I believe a list of 20 top notch and up and coming coaches could be fielded for interviews.

I would much rather Sampson just realizes he needs to step up the Tempo on Offense and Press a little- run a little- we are to one dimensional.....

No Transition game...

Comparing Kansas to OU is fine as well- if I had a choice- I would not think twice about Roy williams style of play over Sampsons.

NickZeppelin
1/15/2006, 11:43 AM
Kelvin will run a little when his teams play D. Hell he's trying to get them to run right now. Problem is we are making too many mistakes on defense to allow for any transition game. No one is going to have a Tubbs like transition game anymore. It just doesn't work because you can't be that good on defense if you want to do exactly what Tubbs did and without defense it just wouldn't work.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 11:47 AM
Kelvin will run a little when his teams play D. Hell he's trying to get them to run right now. Problem is we are making too many mistakes on defense to allow for any transition game. No one is going to have a Tubbs like transition game anymore. It just doesn't work because you can't be that good on defense if you want to do exactly what Tubbs did and without defense it just wouldn't work.


Did you watch North Carolina last year? How about Kansas for several years-

I did not see A&M lighting it up and yet did we get any transition baskets..

Have you watched Ill and how they pass? We need a new scheme on offense. our players are capable of having a good year still- 11 minutes w/o a field goal in one game is fine- but several- please outlet pass push the ball get fouled something...

NickZeppelin
1/15/2006, 11:59 AM
Those teams averaged about 80 a game or around there. UNC average I think 82 a game last year. I'll look up the KU teams in the 90's and early 2000s but it was probably about 80. How many times on defense do we force a fast break off a steal? I bet it's a very low amount and probably the lowest Sampson has had. The game is so much more physical now you can't have a Tubbs like offense even he pretty much admitted that in his interview in the paper today.

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 12:37 PM
Kelvin will run a little when his teams play D. Hell he's trying to get them to run right now. Problem is we are making too many mistakes on defense to allow for any transition game. No one is going to have a Tubbs like transition game anymore. It just doesn't work because you can't be that good on defense if you want to do exactly what Tubbs did and without defense it just wouldn't work.If Kelvin hadn't run off two of the three best guards since Hollis Price after last season these problems wouldn't be happening. How bad do we need Drew Lavender to change the the tempo of the game now?

I love Kelvin but if the NCAA investigation results in probation, I'm done with watching his brand of ball. Meaning, I held my nose because he was a winner and a man of character. Without the latter, I can't do the former anymore.

Jay C. Upchurch
1/15/2006, 12:40 PM
Isn't winning the bottom line?

Kelvin Sampson at OU
Overall record 259-100 in 11 seasons
(.721 winning pct. Best in OU history)
1 Big 12 regular season title
3 Big 12 Tourney titles
NCAA Tourney Appearances 10
NCAA Tourney record 11-10
1 Final Four
1 Elite Eight
1 Sweet 16s

Billy Tubbs at OU
Overall record 333-132 in 14 seasons
(.716 winning pct. 2nd to Sampson's)
4 Big Eight regular season titles
3 Big Eight Tourney titles
NCAA Tourney Appearances 9
NCAA record 15-9
1 Final Four
1 Elite Eight
2 Sweet 16s

I attended OU when Tubbs was the man and I was a Tubbs fan. But by and large, the Sooners significantly underachieved in the NCAA Tournament under Tubbs' direction. Four times they went into the Dance as a No. 1 season, yet advanced to only one Final Four.

People will say look at what Sampson's teams did at the Dance his first four seasons at OU — losing in the first round each time. True enough. But remember this — OU didn't even earn an NCAA berth during three of the four seasons before Sampson took over for Tubbs. OU's reputation as a basketball power had fallen off the map.

If it's a matter of looking pretty then you are probably going to have a hard time ever liking Sampson's style. It's all about playing hard, being physical and doing whatever it takes to win. The new crop of players coming in next season promises to deliver a more up-tempo style, but it's never going to be anything like Billy Ball.

But you can count on one thing for certain — it will be a winning style.

And if you think because Kelvin made a mistake he is no longer a man of good character, well, that's where you are dead wrong. Good men, good people make mistakes they regret quite often. That doesn't excuse his bad judgement, but one mistake like this does not define a man or a coach.

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 12:56 PM
No winning isn't the bottom line. The games are not entertaining to watch and If he's been breaking the rules then he should be gone. Same for any other coach at OU.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 12:57 PM
People will say look at what Sampson's teams did at the Dance his first four seasons at OU losing in the first round each time. True enough. But remember this OU didn't even earn an NCAA berth during three of the four seasons before Sampson took over for Tubbs. OU's reputation as a basketball power had fallen off the map.

If it's a matter of looking pretty then you are probably going to have a hard time ever liking Sampson's style. It's all about playing hard, being physical and doing whatever it takes to win. The new crop of players coming in next season promises to deliver a more up-tempo style, but it's never going to be anything like Billy Ball.

But you can count on one thing for certain it will be a winning style.[/QUOTE]

I rather feel like we have a chance to win it all rather than no for a fact we can't.. I would also take the extra million a year in revenue from fans and consessions to upgrade the LNC...

The Student Section should be on the court or behind each basket- let's fix it- what the hell..

Anyone talking about how in the hell did Notre Dame fire so an so now?

With the current state of the Big 12 - you can loose every big game and still have a 70% winning percentage - Coppin St, Southern, what else crap teams have we beat this year SMU.

Rock on Kelvin- let's pad those stats! 8 of our wins were gimmies this year thus far....

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 12:59 PM
And if you think because Kelvin made a mistake he is no longer a man of good character, well, that's where you are dead wrong. Good men, good people make mistakes they regret quite often. That doesn't excuse his bad judgement, but one mistake like this does not define a man or a coach.One mistake? He made over two HUNDRED illegal calls over a few years. Sounds like more than one mistake. The bottom line for me is if we get embarassed by probation then he should pay the price not the fans.

King Crimson
1/15/2006, 01:17 PM
mojo, you have a short/selective memory if you don't think Billy played cupcakes OOC too.

i'm as big a fan of Tubbs (and i'd put the number of home games i went to during his tenure up against most--the whole tenure, not just 4 years) as anyone here but it's intellectually lazy and sometimes flat dishonest to pretend Billy never lost a game and we sold out everygame and played UNLV or Georgia Tech each time we laced em up non-conference to make some rhetorical strawman out of Kelvin.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 01:27 PM
If you have read what I posted TUbbs didn't even come up accept that I rather feel like we have a chance to win it all rather than know we can't play with the big boys.

I am talking about a more up tempo D and O, new O Schemes better attendance etc...

Nick- North Carolna averaged 88 points last year and Williams avg over 80 17years straight...

I am not talking Billy Ball today.

I simply stated that it would be a long list wanting the OU job if we are willing to Pay.... Don't kid yourself on that- and don't bring up Tubbs again to dispute it!

MikeInNorman
1/15/2006, 01:38 PM
I used to go when Tubbs was here and there was NEVER a crowd problem.

Official OU Men's Basketball Attendance figures, pg. 182 of the Media Guide:

1980-81: 4,695
1981-82: 7,250
1982-83: 10,084
1983-84: 10,073
1984-85: 11,070
1985-86: 10,004
1986-87: 8,332
1987-88: 9,281
1988-89: 9,903
1989-90: 10,499
1990-91: 10,159
1991-92: 7,500
1992-93: 7,724
1993-94: 7,680

ETA:per request:

1994-95: 8,718
1995-96: 9,282
1996-97: 9,420
1997-98: 9,226
1998-99: 10,248
1999-00: 11,248
2000-01: 10,324
2001-02: 10,416
2002-03: 11,266
2003-04: 12,002
2004-05: 11,571

jdsooner
1/15/2006, 01:41 PM
Sherri Coale. Maybe she could coach both teams!

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 01:43 PM
Official OU Men's Basketball Attendance figures, pg. 184 of the Media Guide:

1980-81: 4,695
1981-82: 7,250
1982-83: 10,084
1983-84: 10,073
1984-85: 11,070
1985-86: 10,004
1986-87: 8,332
1987-88: 9,281
1988-89: 9,903
1989-90: 10,499
1990-91: 10,159
1991-92: 7,500
1992-93: 7,724
1993-94: 7,680

Those are useful stats- I am also willing to bet there were 8 more regular home games a year then as well.

What are the stats from 94-2006? and we can put this to rest.

NickZeppelin
1/15/2006, 01:45 PM
How bad do we need Drew Lavender to change the the tempo of the game now?'

Not very much because he wasn't a point guard and he was an average 3 point shooter. McKenzie we could have used this year.

King Crimson
1/15/2006, 01:52 PM
Those are useful stats- I am also willing to bet there were 8 more regular home games a year then as well.

What are the stats from 94-2006? and we can put this to rest.

that is interesting, thanks MIke. what difference would more games mean if it was an average?

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 02:00 PM
that is interesting, thanks MIke. what difference would more games mean if it was an average?


Figure more cup cakes - it is harder to keep an average up with more games- it also means 70K more fans came out annually and close to 2 million in revenue for the BBALL program.

I am guessing it wouldn't change the avg very much unless it were all cup cakes and low attendance for those extra games.

Anyone have the stats from 94 to present?

King Crimson
1/15/2006, 02:09 PM
Anyone have the stats from 94 to present?

i wouldn't see why those wouldn't be in a media guide as well. i've got one from 2002....but i'm far too lazy to look for it right now.

kinda surprised that the 88 team is only teh 8th ranked in terms of attendence in Tubbs' years--the four year spike in the early 80's i assume is the 3 year Tisdale factor...and legitimately OU becoming a real national basketball....to the point that at least they talked about us some on ESPN's big east coverage (usually negatively). and those were great years with DJ/CHoo/Mccallister etc. those years were really a lot of fun.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 02:15 PM
I ran the stats on Google- It looks like Kelvin has averaged over 11K a game since 2000- so this trend is only since the Mizzou game...

It said the other home games this year were all 10-11K attendance- so someone please tell me if that isn't correct? and we are only biatching about the Mizou game.

Jay C. Upchurch
1/15/2006, 03:08 PM
In response to Big Red Ron's quote...
"The bottom line for me is if we get embarassed by probation then he should pay the price not the fans."

OU is already "embarrassed" by its lack of fan support in basketball. Why should the fans who aren't showing up for games get any consideration when it comes to those kinds of decisions?

Jay C. Upchurch
1/15/2006, 03:11 PM
OU averages between 10,000 and 11,000 in ticket sales for every game, and has for a while.

The problem is getting half of those buying tickets to show up and cheer.

Too many absentee fans.

OUstud
1/15/2006, 05:01 PM
OU averages between 10,000 and 11,000 in ticket sales for every game, and has for a while.

The problem is getting half of those buying tickets to show up and cheer.

Too many absentee fans.

...and that's the problem, right there. I guess people who have held football season tickets buy basketball tickets for points, not for wanting to go to any non-Aggy or Whorn games, and those that do go to the games because they spent their money on it don't cheer or do anything. Sure, it doesn't help that we aren't exactly BillyBalling it, but screw ticket sales, we just need people in the seats. I think if we readjusted/did away with the points system that we could get some real fans in the seats.

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 05:03 PM
OU averages between 10,000 and 11,000 in ticket sales for every game, and has for a while.

The problem is getting half of those buying tickets to show up and cheer.

Too many absentee fans.Jay, now you are using selective logic. The reason why people don't come while the sold attendence numbers are inlfated is because the BBall tix are are tied to the Football season package and remember we all think Kelvin's brand of ball is no fun to watch. Something has to give and apparently the fans have spoken by their actions.

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 05:11 PM
'

Not very much because he wasn't a point guard and he was an average 3 point shooter. McKenzie we could have used this year.You are such a frickin nimrod. Have you ever played a sport that didn't include a TV or a skin flute?

Drew Lavender is/was the best point guard on our team last year. Everett was a nice option when other teams put a big guard on Drew but otherwise, Drew was a PG made to push the ball in an upbeat tempo game plan (probably why he left). DL would have been a perfect guard in Billy Ball. McKenzie was a three point specialist but not so good on defense and was less of a PG than DL or TE.

Also, Drew is/was a better three point shooter than anyone on our team this year!

CtheB
1/15/2006, 05:22 PM
You are such a frickin nimrod. Have you ever played a sport that didn't include a TV or a skin flute?

Drew Lavender is/was the best point guard on our team last year. Everett was a nice option when other teams put a big guard on Drew but otherwise, Drew was a PG made to push the ball in an upbeat tempo game plan (probably why he left). DL would have been a perfect guard in Billy Ball. McKenzie was a three point specialist but not so good on defense and was less of a PG than DL or TE.

Also, Drew is/was a better three point shooter than anyone on our team this year!

I would like to know the last high school All-American that entered this program and stayed four years. Methinks it's Hollis Price, and none other in Kelvin's tenure. Could it be that reality inside the program is different than perception from the outside?

Two questions for answer. No affect on positive vibe intended.

PrideTrombone
1/15/2006, 05:30 PM
I would like to know the last high school All-American that entered this program and stayed four years. Methinks it's Hollis Price, and none other in Kelvin's tenure. Could it be that reality inside the program is different than perception from the outside?

Two questions for answer. No affect on positive vibe intended.

We haven't had one. Ryan Humphrey transferred, Drew Lavender transferred. We haven't had any others, I believe.

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 05:38 PM
We haven't had one. Ryan Humphrey transferred, Drew Lavender transferred. We haven't had any others, I believe.You are correct sir. Hollis was a gift and we were blessed to have him here but he was not an all american HS player. Another reason why it is so sad to see Kelvin and his team impload.

Wait wasn't Drew's teamate in HS (who came here and also transfered) a McD's All-American?

So there's three and they all left.

NickZeppelin
1/15/2006, 06:15 PM
Lavender didn't even play most of the last few games of last year when Godbold was inserted into the lineup after the KSU game.

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 06:23 PM
Lavender didn't even play most of the last few games of last year when Godbold was inserted into the lineup after the KSU game.Yeah and we were much better after that too. :rolleyes:

He was already crossways with Kelvin for off-the-court issues by then. Drew probably told Kelvin that his offense was lamer than his High school team's.

PrideTrombone
1/15/2006, 06:24 PM
You are correct sir. Hollis was a gift and we were blessed to have him here but he was not an all american HS player. Another reason why it is so sad to see Kelvin and his team impload.

Wait wasn't Drew's teamate in HS (who came here and also transfered) a McD's All-American?

So there's three and they all left.

Foust? Nah, don't think he was.

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 06:30 PM
Foust? Nah, don't think he was.I watched Foust play with Lavender in the McD's All American game. I remember that game clearly as yesterday because I kept getting confused about which of the two "little PG's" was ours. Unfortunately, I kept thinking this other little guy (who was MUCH better than Drew was ours) was Drew. Turns out that other guy was Chris Paul.

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 06:38 PM
Now I remember. Thet let Foust play in the game because it was in his hometown.

Jay C. Upchurch
1/15/2006, 06:48 PM
Foust was not a McD All-American, nor did he play in that game with Lavender.

The only prep All-Star game they both played in was the Jordan Capital Classic.

Big Red Ron
1/15/2006, 07:09 PM
Foust was not a McD All-American, nor did he play in that game with Lavender.

The only prep All-Star game they both played in was the Jordan Capital Classic.Well, there ya go. He was ONLY a Michael Jordan classic invitee. Doesn't really matter, since he too was run off of campus.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 07:32 PM
Chris Lowery name of interest?








Hometown:
Evansville, Ind.

Position:
Head Coach

Birthdate:
07/07/1972

Experience:
2nd year

Alma Mater:
Southern Illinois (1995)




















Updated Oct. 20, 2005

Few people have had a bigger hand in the success of Saluki basketball than Chris Lowery. Whether as a player, assistant coach or head coach, he has helped build Saluki Basketball into one of the top college programs in America.

Lowery, Saluki basketball and winning all seem to go hand-in-hand.

The common thread between his seven seasons as a Saluki player, assistant coach and now head coach is that ALL of his teams have advanced to post-season play.

In 2004-05, Lowery guided his alma mater to the NCAA Tournament, where it beat Saint Mary's and nearly upset Oklahoma State. At age 32, he was the youngest head coach in the tournament.

SIU finished with a 27-8 record, and Lowery, the fifth-youngest coach in Division I, was named coach-of-the-year in the Missouri Valley Conference.

NickZeppelin
1/15/2006, 07:42 PM
Yeah and we were much better after that too. :rolleyes:

He was already crossways with Kelvin for off-the-court issues by then. Drew probably told Kelvin that his offense was lamer than his High school team's.

You do realize we won the Big 12 after that point.

Gandalf_The_Grey
1/15/2006, 08:05 PM
It amuses me how lenient Nick is with Kelvin but Bob Stoops is the spawn of Satan. God knows how bad your threads would be if Bob got us on probation by directly breaking the rules himself :P

coolm
1/15/2006, 08:32 PM
but Nick also has the more accurate assessment of what is going on with Kelvin's team.

Both Lavender and Foust suffered geatly from Bruce Howards' death. He was essentially their moral and maturity compass as well as their ex-prep coach and Drew's stepfather. They had adjustment issues and Drew really didn't favor waking up for class. He also didn't favor working hard and he wasn't silent about it. His vocal nature there affected Mackenzie and even Taj Gray. Thankfully Taj's father intervened there and smacked some sense into him.

Make no mistake, the losses were painful. We desperately need competent guards right now. DeAngelo's classroom follies further torpedoed the backcourt ills and we end up stuck with Neal, an injured newbie in AJ, a JUCO xfer who hasn't come close to seeing the light, and a couple of SF's. However ... I'd rather suffer this season and work through it than let Drew's demeanor affect Scotty, Damion, Tony, Jeremy, and an already embattled Keith Clark. I suspect Kelvin felt the same way as he steered clear of anyone with even a hint of attitude when searching for a JUCO point this past summer.

If you want the real on McD's xfers then just ask Ryan. He'll make no bones about telling you he made a mistake. He's since sent apologies to Kelvin for the way things turned bad.

I'll support Kelvin as long as I think he's the right choice for OU. The minute that I think he's lied about the NCAA violations, though, is the minute I think he needs to go. I believe him about the "calls" definition because it's been an issue with many other coaches. But, the issue with contacting juniors bothers me. That rule is very simple to follow.

If it comes down to another coach then I'd pick someone with more balance. But, this is still a program on the build. More scoring will NOT fill the seats at LNC. The only thing that will do that is a better attitude among the fans and a better love for the sport. Poor offense just offers them a ready-made excuse. I hope that having the Hornets around gets them to like the game more.

The SIU coach would be a good pick as would Mike Anderson at UAB. Anderson is my personal choice because that press would effectively do what Kelvin does now - use defense to gain consistency with wins. The more open offense might open a few more doors in terms of recruiting as well.

royalfan5
1/15/2006, 08:35 PM
Chris Lowery name of interest?








Hometown:
Evansville, Ind.

Position:
Head Coach

Birthdate:
07/07/1972

Experience:
2nd year

Alma Mater:
Southern Illinois (1995)




















Updated Oct. 20, 2005

Few people have had a bigger hand in the success of Saluki basketball than Chris Lowery. Whether as a player, assistant coach or head coach, he has helped build Saluki Basketball into one of the top college programs in America.

Lowery, Saluki basketball and winning all seem to go hand-in-hand.

The common thread between his seven seasons as a Saluki player, assistant coach and now head coach is that ALL of his teams have advanced to post-season play.

In 2004-05, Lowery guided his alma mater to the NCAA Tournament, where it beat Saint Mary's and nearly upset Oklahoma State. At age 32, he was the youngest head coach in the tournament.

SIU finished with a 27-8 record, and Lowery, the fifth-youngest coach in Division I, was named coach-of-the-year in the Missouri Valley Conference.
You might want to wait to see how he maintains a program with his own recruits. He's not even the best coach in the Valley. Altman is.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 08:46 PM
You might want to wait to see how he maintains a program with his own recruits. He's not even the best coach in the Valley. Altman is.


Altman has more experience, Head to head we will have to see- Altman is another good coach- KSU will tell you that.

royalfan5
1/15/2006, 08:48 PM
Altman has more experience, Head to head we will have to see- Altman is another good coach- KSU will tell you that.KSU can tell you what happens when you run off a successful coach because people don't embrace his style.

CtheB
1/15/2006, 08:53 PM
The same KSU that just did what Altman couldn't do?

royalfan5
1/15/2006, 08:55 PM
The same KSU that just did what Altman couldn't do?
Altman was the last one before Woolridge to beat KU.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 09:59 PM
Lorenzo Romar
Tod Kowalczyk
Sean Miller
Doc Sadler
Karl Hobb
Tom Crean - maybe tough to get...

royalfan5
1/15/2006, 10:09 PM
Lorenzo Romar
Tod Kowalczyk
Sean Miller
Doc Sadler
Karl Hobb
Tom Crean - maybe tough to get...
Romar's a UW alum. He's not going anywhere. I'd let Miller and Sadler prove they can maintain their programs with there own recruiting first. Hobbs is in a good situation and is likely Calhoun's successor at UCONN, so he would be a tough sell. Crean would probably be easier to get than Hobbs just because Marquette has stagnated. If I were OU, I would take a run at Paul Hewitt at GT because his contract doesn't have a buy-out attached for the next 18 months because of an AD change, plus he's an uptempo guy. Stew Morrill at USU might be another guy worth looking at, Jimmy Patsos would be another up and comer, but he would be a better fit up here in Lincoln than down in Norman because of the states of the respective programs.

Jay C. Upchurch
1/15/2006, 10:24 PM
Chris Lowery's Southern Illinois squad is averaging a whopping 61.2 points a game this season against one of the easiest schedules in the country. No doubt he'd bring an exciting brand of hoops to Norman.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 10:40 PM
Romar's a UW alum. He's not going anywhere. I'd let Miller and Sadler prove they can maintain their programs with there own recruiting first. Hobbs is in a good situation and is likely Calhoun's successor at UCONN, so he would be a tough sell. Crean would probably be easier to get than Hobbs just because Marquette has stagnated. If I were OU, I would take a run at Paul Hewitt at GT because his contract doesn't have a buy-out attached for the next 18 months because of an AD change, plus he's an uptempo guy. Stew Morrill at USU might be another guy worth looking at, Jimmy Patsos would be another up and comer, but he would be a better fit up here in Lincoln than down in Norman because of the states of the respective programs.

Marquette crushed UCCON this year I bet they turn out pretty solid... The one think about Sadler is he has personally recruited 8-10 NBA Caliber players to a Middle Tier School over the years.

Paul Hewitt HUM...

royalfan5
1/15/2006, 10:45 PM
Marquette crushed UCCON this year I bet they turn out pretty solid... The one think about Sadler is he has personally recruited 8-10 NBA Caliber players to a Middle Tier School over the years.

Paul Hewitt HUM...
Marqutte also got rolled by Nebraska in a game that was nowhere as close as the 84-74 score indicates. They have the shooters than can steal a game, and make a napping team look silly but there not built for the long haul.

MojoRisen
1/15/2006, 11:00 PM
Marqutte also got rolled by Nebraska in a game that was nowhere as close as the 84-74 score indicates. They have the shooters than can steal a game, and make a napping team look silly but there not built for the long haul.

Then by fault OU is good!

What about Tod Kowalczyk??? Sounds like he is getting some good recruits to Milwaukee- that ain't easy.

Other than that- I hope Kelvin can just loosen up and take some initiative to learn some new offensive schemes- it is like selling cable you don't have to be cox to be time warner.

Based on Jay's last comment- Lowry is out of consideration. UAB coach sounds interesting- but KU beat em by 30 and that is more interesting.

royalfan5
1/15/2006, 11:06 PM
Then by fault OU is good!

What about Tod Kowalczyk??? Sounds like he is getting some good recruits to Milwaukee- that ain't easy.

Other than that- I hope Kelvin can just loosen up and take some initiative to learn some new offensive schemes- it is like selling cable you don't have to be cox to be time warner.

Based on Jay's last comment- Lowry is out of consideration. UAB coach sounds interesting- but KU beat em by 30 and that is more interesting.
Randy Bennet at St. Mary's would be worth looking at. His situation is somewhat limited there. UAB coach is from Birimingham, and has turned down overtures from top-notch programs in the past.

GDC
1/15/2006, 11:14 PM
Sherri Coale?:D

King Crimson
1/15/2006, 11:32 PM
UAB also put it on OSU pretty good this year the week after OSU's win over UTENN at the All-College when they were feeling pretty good about themselves. I've read in "Replace Quin with who?" threads on Mizzou boards that there is something in Anderson's ties to Nolan Richardson that make some people uncomfortbale. i don't know if that's founded or unfounded.....just something i read. FWIW.

coolm
1/15/2006, 11:38 PM
he was an assistant under Nolan

King Crimson
1/15/2006, 11:54 PM
he was an assistant under Nolan

that, I know. i mean there was something (allegedly) that he may or may not have done under Nolan that made teh Mizzou people uncomfortable with him.

Gandalf_The_Grey
1/16/2006, 12:40 AM
I think they should get Antonio Banderas to coach the basketball team....could imagine the rythem...the packed houses of babes!!!! I dare say we would be unstoppable ;)

http://www.theincrowdvlog.com/incrowdvlog/list/film/images/Antonio%20Banderas.jpg

Big Red Ron
1/16/2006, 12:51 AM
I think they should get Antonio Banderas to coach the basketball team....could imagine the rythem...the packed houses of babes!!!! I dare say we would be unstoppable ;)

http://www.theincrowdvlog.com/incrowdvlog/list/film/images/Antonio%20Banderas.jpgGood call but don't you think David Hasslehoft (sp?) would do better with the German demographic?:D

Gandalf_The_Grey
1/16/2006, 01:00 AM
HASSELHOFF SPELL IT RIGHT SATAN!!!!! Yeah he could be assistant or Co-Head Coach!

Gandalf_The_Grey
1/16/2006, 01:02 AM
We could also have Life Size Antonio Banderas Blow up doll nite!!!! http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/312/312_banderas_blowup_doll.gif

yermom
1/16/2006, 02:18 AM
...and that's the problem, right there. I guess people who have held football season tickets buy basketball tickets for points, not for wanting to go to any non-Aggy or Whorn games, and those that do go to the games because they spent their money on it don't cheer or do anything. Sure, it doesn't help that we aren't exactly BillyBalling it, but screw ticket sales, we just need people in the seats. I think if we readjusted/did away with the points system that we could get some real fans in the seats.

they have adjusted the system, you get a lot more points if you actually use the tickets, or if someone does

they should just let students swipe their cards to get in or something

MikeInNorman
1/16/2006, 10:16 AM
Official OU Men's Basketball Attendance figures, pg. 182 of the Media Guide:

1980-81: 4,695
1981-82: 7,250
1982-83: 10,084
1983-84: 10,073
1984-85: 11,070
1985-86: 10,004
1986-87: 8,332
1987-88: 9,281
1988-89: 9,903
1989-90: 10,499
1990-91: 10,159
1991-92: 7,500
1992-93: 7,724
1993-94: 7,680

ETA:per request:

1994-95: 8,718
1995-96: 9,282
1996-97: 9,420
1997-98: 9,226
1998-99: 10,248
1999-00: 11,248
2000-01: 10,324
2001-02: 10,416
2002-03: 11,266
2003-04: 12,002
2004-05: 11,571

I edited my previous post to include Kelvin attendance figures. To answer other questions previously raised, Billy averaged 15.92 home games per year, while Kelvin averages 15.27 home games per year.

okienole3
1/16/2006, 11:11 AM
http://atmizzou.missouri.edu/oct04/images/nolte.jpg

MojoRisen
1/16/2006, 11:29 AM
I edited my previous post to include Kelvin attendance figures. To answer other questions previously raised, Billy averaged 15.92 home games per year, while Kelvin averages 15.27 home games per year.

It is being said that even though ticket sales are great, only half show up to the game!

Hopefully we real off 4 close games and get the O in line.

OUstud
1/16/2006, 12:57 PM
Romar's a UW alum. He's not going anywhere. I'd let Miller and Sadler prove they can maintain their programs with there own recruiting first. Hobbs is in a good situation and is likely Calhoun's successor at UCONN, so he would be a tough sell. Crean would probably be easier to get than Hobbs just because Marquette has stagnated. If I were OU, I would take a run at Paul Hewitt at GT because his contract doesn't have a buy-out attached for the next 18 months because of an AD change, plus he's an uptempo guy. Stew Morrill at USU might be another guy worth looking at, Jimmy Patsos would be another up and comer, but he would be a better fit up here in Lincoln than down in Norman because of the states of the respective programs.

Patsos made Sporting News (or SI, pretty sure it was TSN) because he had Loyola (MD) at 7-2, a place referred to as "the Bengals, the Royals, and the Clippers put together", and all wins over D-1 schools.

Hewitt might be a good call, but this year he has struggled and they haven't quite gotten back to their Final Four quality.

Crean would be a mistake, in my opinion.

If I were to make the call (and, for the record, I don't want Kelvin gone, and I believe him when he says he wants to up the tempo), I would go after Bruce Pearl, he runs kind of a BillyBall style of play.

Sooner T-Bone
1/16/2006, 01:11 PM
How about Bob Hoffman. He has a good offensive mind!

royalfan5
1/16/2006, 01:43 PM
Patsos made Sporting News (or SI, pretty sure it was TSN) because he had Loyola (MD) at 7-2, a place referred to as "the Bengals, the Royals, and the Clippers put together", and all wins over D-1 schools
Which is why we need him in Lincoln. We're the Clippers of the Big XII.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
1/16/2006, 05:04 PM
I think that if Kelvin goes, and I'm certainly not one in that camp (unless we get serious probation like a 2-year ban) that it would pretty tough to get a proven coach to come here. I heard a good interview some time ago with a ex-football coach, don't remember which I thought had some great answers. The basic gist was that when a coach looks at a job, they look at the pay, the facilities, the tradition and then most importantly they look at the talent they have to work with, the expectations of fans/ownership and then decide if it is the best chance to reach fan expectations.

Right now we have a coach that has won more Big 12 games than any other, is arguably at least the most successful coach ever and is averaging 22-23 wins a year, coming off a league title and with the best incoming recruiting class in years set to come onboard. Now NCAA probation is a trump card and I'm putting that aside at the moment but if you were a new coach looking at the job say next year you would say.

1. Pay, very good
2. Facilities, decent but not exceptional, LNC has some shortcomings
3. Traditon, not at an elite level but again arguably second tier, I never see OU hoops being a continual contender like Duke, Kentucky,etc but you can win a title at OU, there are no built in disadvantages to overcome like say like at Texas Tech or Kansas St
4. Talent, on paper amazing next year if all the recuits come in
5. Expectations , here is THE big problem, the track record of OU hoops is win and win exciting for a period and we will start showing up, but we expect you to win. Also if you play to your teams strengths and win but it is a boring style we won't show up and you are gone even if this time last year you were the champ. Partially because of football, we expect a winner, there is nothing wrong with that but even during the Blake years support for football was good. I think a new coach would have a certain curiosity factor but I think it would take a 13-1 start before many fans would notice.

I'm not saying that a coach would ignore 1-4 and pass because of #5 but Coach X can be a hero at Texas A&M, Arizona St or somewhere like that simply making the tourney once every 3-4 years.

As for a name, I know it might get a giggle or two but I think Larry Eustachey can coach and would make the most of a second chance.

I personally hope this all turns around and KS is here for a while.

CtheB
1/16/2006, 09:25 PM
coming off a league title

Co-title.

Jay C. Upchurch
1/17/2006, 03:08 AM
That's right, make sure Kelvin and boys don't get more credit than they deserve...

CtheB
1/17/2006, 09:07 AM
Jay:

I'm just trying to clarify the fact that we didn't win the conference title outright, we shared it with Kansas. If people want to neg spek me for being factual, then this board has problems.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
1/17/2006, 09:33 AM
Point taken. We did not win the conference outright, we were the co-champs and beat the other co-champs head-to-head. OU was also Co-national champs in football in 1974 but I have no problem calling us national champs.

We all agree that we are coming off a good year last year.

NickZeppelin
1/17/2006, 11:34 AM
Jay:

I'm just trying to clarify the fact that we didn't win the conference title outright, we shared it with Kansas. If people want to neg spek me for being factual, then this board has problems.

And who won the head to head battle for KU? Didn't we win soundly?

crawfish
1/17/2006, 11:57 AM
Co-title.

Yeah, but we won the bigger half. :)

CtheB
1/17/2006, 12:39 PM
Yeah, but we won the bigger half. :)

Understood.:)

GDC
1/17/2006, 02:47 PM
Should this be "Replace Kelvin with whom?"?

CtheB
1/17/2006, 03:56 PM
Should this be "Replace Kelvin with whom"?

Well, spoken, gdc...well spoken.

CtheB
1/17/2006, 04:53 PM
Should this be "Replace Kelvin with whom"?

Well, spoken, gdc...well spoken.

Stanley1
1/18/2006, 10:23 AM
No winning isn't the bottom line. The games are not entertaining to watch and If he's been breaking the rules then he should be gone. Same for any other coach at OU.

I notice you have an avatar of Switzer. Pretty sure he "broke a few rules". Should he have been fired for that?

Didn't think so.

NickZeppelin
1/18/2006, 10:24 AM
I notice you have an avatar of Switzer. Pretty sure he "broke a few rules". Should he have been fired for that?

Didn't think so.

Except for the fact that he basically was.

Stanley1
1/18/2006, 10:53 AM
Except for the fact that he basically was.

He broke alot of rules that I'd consider more on par with what Kelvin is doing, and didn't get run off. Wasn't until our star QB was busted selling coke and there were guns being shot inside the dorm that we did. Pretty sure Kelvin making a few extra calls doesn't really compare to that.

Gandalf_The_Grey
1/18/2006, 10:56 AM
Yes Yes but a phone was required to call for the Cocaine and illegal firearms so basically the same thing

Stanley1
1/18/2006, 11:10 AM
Yes Yes but a phone was required to call for the Cocaine and illegal firearms so basically the same thing

Good point. I stand corrected. :rolleyes: :D

Gandalf_The_Grey
1/18/2006, 11:56 AM
I call that Tuba Logic ;)

Big Red Ron
1/19/2006, 05:26 PM
I notice you have an avatar of Switzer. Pretty sure he "broke a few rules". Should he have been fired for that?

Didn't think so.Well, he was and I was sad to see him go. I'll also be sad to see Kelvin go. We are disscussing apples and oranges here on several levels. Basketball vs. Football, 80's vs. 00's, NCAA's wrath over OU's landmark court case over TV revenue vs. the NCAA turning a blind eye to Kelvin because he was Chairman of the coaches association, yadda yadda yadda.

Stanley1
1/19/2006, 05:29 PM
Well, he was and I was sad to see him go. I'll also be sad to see Kelvin go. We are disscussing apples and oranges here on several levels. Basketball vs. Football, 80's vs. 00's, NCAA's wrath over OU's landmark court case over TV revenue vs. the NCAA turning a blind eye to Kelvin because he was Chairman of the coaches association, yadda yadda yadda.

Keep telling yourself that. And next time you feel the need to neg me for my opinion, just know you'll be gettin' in return.

Big Red Ron
1/19/2006, 05:44 PM
Keep telling yourself that. And next time you feel the need to neg me for my opinion, just know you'll be gettin' in return.
Don't know who the hell you think you are negging. Quit hating the best Sooner basketball coach we've had. Stanley

I'm negging you! I signed it and have very little respect for you and your opinion. Billy Tubbs > Kelvin Sampson

BTW, keep negging me back because I have a couple MILLION more spek points than you and I win everytime on that deal.

Carry on stan.

Stanley1
1/19/2006, 06:01 PM
I'm negging you! I signed it and have very little respect for you and your opinion. Billy Tubbs > Kelvin Sampson

BTW, keep negging me back because I have a couple MILLION more spek points than you and I win everytime on that deal.

Carry on stan.

Actually, you are like 6 people ahead of me in spek, so more realistically, you "might" have a couple hundred k more than me. Nice try though.

Keep it up, we'll see who comes out on top.

CtheB
1/19/2006, 06:08 PM
Jay:

I am quite disappointed that it appears our battle was merely a meaningless bout on the undercard for what is shaping up to be the main event here between BRR and Stanley.

That being said, you were a worthy foe, and our bout was good, even though most of the fans were at the concession stand waiting for the BIG ONE. :)

CtheB

Stanley1
1/19/2006, 06:10 PM
Jay:

I am quite disappointed that it appears our battle was merely a meaningless bout on the undercard for what is shaping up to be the main event here between BRR and Stanley.

That being said, you were a worthy foe, and our bout was good, even though most of the fans were at the concession stand waiting for the BIG ONE. :)

CtheB

Main Event is gonna be a short one. ;)

Big Red Ron
1/19/2006, 06:12 PM
Jay:

I am quite disappointed that it appears our battle was merely a meaningless bout on the undercard for what is shaping up to be the main event here between BRR and Stanley.

That being said, you were a worthy foe, and our bout was good, even though most of the fans were at the concession stand waiting for the BIG ONE. :)

CtheBDing, Ding!

Stan, just chill. I negged you for bringing the King into this discussion. I signed it like a man even though, I know because I'm a sponser too, that you get to see who negged you whether they signed it or not.

Big Red Ron
1/19/2006, 06:14 PM
Main Event is gonna be a short one. ;)Yeah, cuz you were knocked out on the first punch.:D

Stanley1
1/19/2006, 06:14 PM
Ding, Ding!

Stan, just chill. I negged you for bringing the King into this discussion. I signed it like a man even though, I know because I'm a sponser too, that you get to see who negged you whether they signed it or not.

Fine, you forfeit the fight then. :D

I'm done now. For real. :)

CtheB
1/19/2006, 06:17 PM
C'mon, fellas, give us something more than this Don King "$79.95 to blow somebody over" crap.

Big Red Ron
1/19/2006, 06:20 PM
C'mon, fellas, give us something more than this Don King "$79.95 to blow somebody over" crap.
Yeah, I was trying to jam his nose into his brain with the upper-cut.:D

CtheB
1/19/2006, 06:30 PM
:D

Finally, something more interesting than the amount of neg spek you can cast over each other. ;)