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  1. #1
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Replace Kelvin with who?

    I have asked this question several times in the last few yeats and have yet to get any real answers.
    If we did fire Calvin, who are we realistically going to bring in that will lead us to the PROMISED LAND?Well first lets see who we can elimanate right off the bat.Coach K,Pitino,Tubby Smith, they ain"t coming no matter how much money we throw at them.They are traditional b-ball schools which have no football teams capable of overshadowing them.
    Knight,Sutton,Self,Barnes: gimme a break, check their records for the last 11 years ,you will find No gap between these guys and KS,besides which one of them is a lunatic,one is in virtual retirement,the third is overated and last barely matches Kelvin's record( besides which he is a close personal friend of KS.
    So tell me who will be our Moses and lead us to the PROMISED LAND?
    Owen '05-'26 122-54-16 .677 (Foundation)
    Wilkinson '47-'63 145-29-4 .829 (DYNASTY 1) 3 NC
    Switzer '73-'88 157-29-4 .837(DYNASTY 2) 3 NC
    Stoops '99- PRESENT 160-39-0 .804 (DYNASTY 3) 1 NC and still counting.

    At OU tradition is about more than just one coach. 842-312-53
    .720

    Scattergun toting Posse member

  2. #2
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Soonerus's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Nobody we keep Kelvin as long as we are fortunate enough to have him....

  3. #3
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soonerus
    Nobody we keep Kelvin as long as we are fortunate enough to have him....
    Exactly my point.We didn't fire Billy when he had less than stellar teams.Or Bud OR Barry ,so why the witch hunt for Kelvin? I think some people are spoiled and forget Rome was not built in a day.
    Owen '05-'26 122-54-16 .677 (Foundation)
    Wilkinson '47-'63 145-29-4 .829 (DYNASTY 1) 3 NC
    Switzer '73-'88 157-29-4 .837(DYNASTY 2) 3 NC
    Stoops '99- PRESENT 160-39-0 .804 (DYNASTY 3) 1 NC and still counting.

    At OU tradition is about more than just one coach. 842-312-53
    .720

    Scattergun toting Posse member

  4. #4
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member birddog's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Yuo can't argue with his winning percentage, I know that. It's amazing he can get a "Top 5" Class to come to play in an environment more fitting for a funeral. I'm not sure what has to change to get people involved in the program. But, don't we say this every year?

  5. #5
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member OKC-SLC's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Chicken or egg, i'm not sure.

    But let's seriously not pretend that watching a team go thru 8 minute FG droughts to score in the 40's is going to get many people in the seats at even a basketball school.
    Last edited by OKC-SLC; 1/15/2006 at 06:47 PM.
    “When half the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is about the end of any nation." --Adrian Rogers

  6. #6
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 NickZeppelin's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    LNC isn't a great place to play. It's dark, the lighting is bad, and it's not meant for basketball. It's a perfect concert type arena. That being said you can still be loud in there and make it sound great if you just show up and care. I went to the Mizzou game and it was not really empty. I would guess 6k there at the max. For a majority of the game only about 1000 people seemed to even realize a game was going on. I can't believe how our fans just didn't care. You can't have that happen at home games. Especially when you have a winning record and are playing a game that was HUGE for our team.

  7. #7
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerJAM
    Exactly my point.We didn't fire Billy when he had less than stellar teams.Or Bud OR Barry ,so why the witch hunt for Kelvin? I think some people are spoiled and forget Rome was not built in a day.
    Rome did't fall in a day.... either

  8. #8
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Big Red Ron's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Quote Originally Posted by birddogbbq
    Yuo can't argue with his winning percentage, I know that. It's amazing he can get a "Top 5" Class to come to play in an environment more fitting for a funeral. I'm not sure what has to change to get people involved in the program. But, don't we say this every year?
    Style points would go a long way to increase the crowd. I used to go when Tubbs was here and there was NEVER a crowd problem. High flying, up-tempo offense is exciting. Kelvin's style, while ultimately effective is not very fun to watch. I go to about five or six (sam as football) games a year and I always find myself looking at my watch.

    To answer the original question, there are quite a few up and coming coaches that would love to come to OU. Heck look at what Barnes has done down at tex and Gillespie at aTm. Those schools have zero basketball tradition like OU.

    If Kelvin gets us put on probation, as much as I hate to say it, I think we keep him until sanctions are over and fire him.
    Know thy self,
    know thy enemy.
    A thousand battles,
    a thousand victories. - Sun Tzu (500 B.C.)

  9. #9
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 CtheB's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerJAM
    I have asked this question several times in the last few yeats and have yet to get any real answers.
    If we did fire Calvin, who are we realistically going to bring in that will lead us to the PROMISED LAND?Well first lets see who we can elimanate right off the bat.Coach K,Pitino,Tubby Smith, they ain"t coming no matter how much money we throw at them.They are traditional b-ball schools which have no football teams capable of overshadowing them.
    Knight,Sutton,Self,Barnes: gimme a break, check their records for the last 11 years ,you will find No gap between these guys and KS,besides which one of them is a lunatic,one is in virtual retirement,the third is overated and last barely matches Kelvin's record( besides which he is a close personal friend of KS.
    So tell me who will be our Moses and lead us to the PROMISED LAND?
    Don't know exactly, but with the kind of money OU has to throw around, there is definitely some head coach at one of the 317 teams playing D1 basketball that would take the job.

    Remember, Kelvin wasn't on anyone's radar when we found him at Wazzu.

  10. #10
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    If the OU job was open the list would be very long....... If we are willing to commit to paying well! How about one of the 10 assistants at Duke?

    John Beilein
    Head Coach is one name..

    Again if the job were open- I believe a list of 20 top notch and up and coming coaches could be fielded for interviews.

    I would much rather Sampson just realizes he needs to step up the Tempo on Offense and Press a little- run a little- we are to one dimensional.....

    No Transition game...

    Comparing Kansas to OU is fine as well- if I had a choice- I would not think twice about Roy williams style of play over Sampsons.

  11. #11
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 NickZeppelin's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Kelvin will run a little when his teams play D. Hell he's trying to get them to run right now. Problem is we are making too many mistakes on defense to allow for any transition game. No one is going to have a Tubbs like transition game anymore. It just doesn't work because you can't be that good on defense if you want to do exactly what Tubbs did and without defense it just wouldn't work.

  12. #12
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickZeppelin
    Kelvin will run a little when his teams play D. Hell he's trying to get them to run right now. Problem is we are making too many mistakes on defense to allow for any transition game. No one is going to have a Tubbs like transition game anymore. It just doesn't work because you can't be that good on defense if you want to do exactly what Tubbs did and without defense it just wouldn't work.

    Did you watch North Carolina last year? How about Kansas for several years-

    I did not see A&M lighting it up and yet did we get any transition baskets..

    Have you watched Ill and how they pass? We need a new scheme on offense. our players are capable of having a good year still- 11 minutes w/o a field goal in one game is fine- but several- please outlet pass push the ball get fouled something...

  13. #13
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 NickZeppelin's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Those teams averaged about 80 a game or around there. UNC average I think 82 a game last year. I'll look up the KU teams in the 90's and early 2000s but it was probably about 80. How many times on defense do we force a fast break off a steal? I bet it's a very low amount and probably the lowest Sampson has had. The game is so much more physical now you can't have a Tubbs like offense even he pretty much admitted that in his interview in the paper today.

  14. #14
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Big Red Ron's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickZeppelin
    Kelvin will run a little when his teams play D. Hell he's trying to get them to run right now. Problem is we are making too many mistakes on defense to allow for any transition game. No one is going to have a Tubbs like transition game anymore. It just doesn't work because you can't be that good on defense if you want to do exactly what Tubbs did and without defense it just wouldn't work.
    If Kelvin hadn't run off two of the three best guards since Hollis Price after last season these problems wouldn't be happening. How bad do we need Drew Lavender to change the the tempo of the game now?

    I love Kelvin but if the NCAA investigation results in probation, I'm done with watching his brand of ball. Meaning, I held my nose because he was a winner and a man of character. Without the latter, I can't do the former anymore.
    Know thy self,
    know thy enemy.
    A thousand battles,
    a thousand victories. - Sun Tzu (500 B.C.)

  15. #15
    Sooner Spectator Editor Jay C. Upchurch's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Isn't winning the bottom line?

    Kelvin Sampson at OU
    Overall record 259-100 in 11 seasons
    (.721 winning pct. Best in OU history)
    1 Big 12 regular season title
    3 Big 12 Tourney titles
    NCAA Tourney Appearances 10
    NCAA Tourney record 11-10
    1 Final Four
    1 Elite Eight
    1 Sweet 16s

    Billy Tubbs at OU
    Overall record 333-132 in 14 seasons
    (.716 winning pct. 2nd to Sampson's)
    4 Big Eight regular season titles
    3 Big Eight Tourney titles
    NCAA Tourney Appearances 9
    NCAA record 15-9
    1 Final Four
    1 Elite Eight
    2 Sweet 16s

    I attended OU when Tubbs was the man and I was a Tubbs fan. But by and large, the Sooners significantly underachieved in the NCAA Tournament under Tubbs' direction. Four times they went into the Dance as a No. 1 season, yet advanced to only one Final Four.

    People will say look at what Sampson's teams did at the Dance his first four seasons at OU — losing in the first round each time. True enough. But remember this — OU didn't even earn an NCAA berth during three of the four seasons before Sampson took over for Tubbs. OU's reputation as a basketball power had fallen off the map.

    If it's a matter of looking pretty then you are probably going to have a hard time ever liking Sampson's style. It's all about playing hard, being physical and doing whatever it takes to win. The new crop of players coming in next season promises to deliver a more up-tempo style, but it's never going to be anything like Billy Ball.

    But you can count on one thing for certain — it will be a winning style.

    And if you think because Kelvin made a mistake he is no longer a man of good character, well, that's where you are dead wrong. Good men, good people make mistakes they regret quite often. That doesn't excuse his bad judgement, but one mistake like this does not define a man or a coach.
    Last edited by Jay C. Upchurch; 1/15/2006 at 12:49 PM.

  16. #16
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Big Red Ron's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    No winning isn't the bottom line. The games are not entertaining to watch and If he's been breaking the rules then he should be gone. Same for any other coach at OU.
    Know thy self,
    know thy enemy.
    A thousand battles,
    a thousand victories. - Sun Tzu (500 B.C.)

  17. #17
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    People will say look at what Sampson's teams did at the Dance his first four seasons at OU — losing in the first round each time. True enough. But remember this — OU didn't even earn an NCAA berth during three of the four seasons before Sampson took over for Tubbs. OU's reputation as a basketball power had fallen off the map.

    If it's a matter of looking pretty then you are probably going to have a hard time ever liking Sampson's style. It's all about playing hard, being physical and doing whatever it takes to win. The new crop of players coming in next season promises to deliver a more up-tempo style, but it's never going to be anything like Billy Ball.

    But you can count on one thing for certain — it will be a winning style.[/QUOTE]

    I rather feel like we have a chance to win it all rather than no for a fact we can't.. I would also take the extra million a year in revenue from fans and consessions to upgrade the LNC...

    The Student Section should be on the court or behind each basket- let's fix it- what the hell..

    Anyone talking about how in the hell did Notre Dame fire so an so now?

    With the current state of the Big 12 - you can loose every big game and still have a 70% winning percentage - Coppin St, Southern, what else crap teams have we beat this year SMU.

    Rock on Kelvin- let's pad those stats! 8 of our wins were gimmies this year thus far....

  18. #18
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Big Red Ron's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay C. Upchurch
    And if you think because Kelvin made a mistake he is no longer a man of good character, well, that's where you are dead wrong. Good men, good people make mistakes they regret quite often. That doesn't excuse his bad judgement, but one mistake like this does not define a man or a coach.
    One mistake? He made over two HUNDRED illegal calls over a few years. Sounds like more than one mistake. The bottom line for me is if we get embarassed by probation then he should pay the price not the fans.
    Know thy self,
    know thy enemy.
    A thousand battles,
    a thousand victories. - Sun Tzu (500 B.C.)

  19. #19
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member King Crimson's Avatar
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    mojo, you have a short/selective memory if you don't think Billy played cupcakes OOC too.

    i'm as big a fan of Tubbs (and i'd put the number of home games i went to during his tenure up against most--the whole tenure, not just 4 years) as anyone here but it's intellectually lazy and sometimes flat dishonest to pretend Billy never lost a game and we sold out everygame and played UNLV or Georgia Tech each time we laced em up non-conference to make some rhetorical strawman out of Kelvin.

  20. #20
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Replace Kelvin with who?

    If you have read what I posted TUbbs didn't even come up accept that I rather feel like we have a chance to win it all rather than know we can't play with the big boys.

    I am talking about a more up tempo D and O, new O Schemes better attendance etc...

    Nick- North Carolna averaged 88 points last year and Williams avg over 80 17years straight...

    I am not talking Billy Ball today.

    I simply stated that it would be a long list wanting the OU job if we are willing to Pay.... Don't kid yourself on that- and don't bring up Tubbs again to dispute it!

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