If I were an Episcopal, this would tear it once and for all for me...

[Okla-homey]

just saying.

New US church leader says homosexuality no sin
Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:30pm ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Newly elected leader of the U.S. Episcopal Church Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori said on Monday she believed homosexuality was no sin and homosexuals were created by God to love people of the same gender.

Jefferts Schori, bishop of the Diocese of Nevada, was elected on Sunday as the first woman leader of the 2.3 million-member Episcopal Church. the U.S. branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion. She will formally take office later this year.

Interviewed on CNN, Jefferts Schori was asked if it was a sin to be homosexual.

"I don't believe so. I believe that God creates us with different gifts. Each one of us comes into this world with a different collection of things that challenge us and things that give us joy and allow us to bless the world around us," she said.

"Some people come into this world with affections ordered toward other people of the same gender and some people come into this world with affections directed at people of the other gender."

Jefferts Schori's election seemed certain to exacerbate splits within a Episcopal Church that is already deeply divided over homosexuality with several dioceses and parishes threatening to break away.

It could also widen divisions with other Anglican communities, including the Church of England, which do not allow women bishops.

[Scott D]

Nevada and Massachusettes.....and some of you wonder why I turn my back on 'organized religion'.

[12]

We're Episcopalians. Well, we are as long as our bishop (Don Wimberly of the Houston diocese) is at the helm. He is conservative, to put it lightly.

But yes, this is troubling to me. And no, I don't care who does what to whom, provided they both consent. Just don't do it in my home and don't force your choices to those who don't care to participate.

Too bad, because I really like being "Catholic Lite."

[mdklatt]

But yes, this is troubling to me. And no, I don't care who does what to whom, provided they both consent. Just don't do it in my home and don't force your choices to those who don't care to participate.

How is anybody forcing their choices on you?

[Jimminy Crimson]

In related news, the US Episcopal Church has a new official song: If It Makes You Happy - Sheryl Crow

cah-ray-z

[GhostOfJAS]

I don't have a dog in the Episcopalian fight. But it seems to me the Episcopal church is just the first of many denominations that will end up having a very difficult internal diaologue about how to handle the issue of homosexuality. And trust me, I understand that it won't be easy. I went through the same thing myself...over more than a decade.

I grew up in a great, stable, middle-class home with a conservative mom and dad, and went to a conservative southern baptist church 3 times most weeks from birth until I left for college. After a decade of pain I reached the conclusion that I don't believe in a god that would saddle me with such a "sin" that is so intrinsic to my very being and send me off to hell for it. If I'm wrong and end up there, then eternal separation from such a god is fine with me (call it mutual rejection, if you will). It's been over 5 years since I made peace with myself and I've never been happier.

So that's my story in one paragraph...and now the Episcopalian church is confronting the reality many of us have already had to deal with for years. It doesn't really matter to me how it ends up for the church. Even if they decide in the end to take a hardline stand against homosexuality, I respect them for having an honest discussion about it...as opposed to other denominations who have chosen a coordinated effort of demonization against gays from the pulpit and in politics.

[Sooner_Bob]

I don't have a dog in the Episcopalian fight. But it seems to me the Episcopal church is just the first of many denominations that will end up having a very difficult internal diaologue about how to handle the issue of homosexuality. And trust me, I understand that it won't be easy. I went through the same thing myself...over more than a decade.

I grew up in a great, stable, middle-class home with a conservative mom and dad, and went to a conservative southern baptist church 3 times most weeks from birth until I left for college. After a decade of pain I reached the conclusion that I don't believe in a god that would saddle me with such a "sin" that is so intrinsic to my very being and send me off to hell for it. If I'm wrong and end up there, then eternal separation from such a god is fine with me (call it mutual rejection, if you will). It's been over 5 years since I made peace with myself and I've never been happier.

So that's my story in one paragraph...and now the Episcopalian church is confronting the reality many of us have already had to deal with for years. It doesn't really matter to me how it ends up for the church. Even if they decide in the end to take a hardline stand against homosexuality, I respect them for having an honest discussion about it...as opposed to other denominations who have chosen a coordinated effort of demonization against gays from the pulpit and in politics.

Homosexuality isn't the only sin that gets "singled out" from the pulpit. Most churches don't spend Sunday after Sunday bashing gays.

Our country has turned from a stance of rejecting sin to accepting it because of the political correctness movement (among many others).

You say that you feel that God saddled you with the intrinsic sin of homosexuality . . . do you also feel that God saddles suicide bombers with their burden of choosing to blow up themselves and kill innocent people? Keeping in mind that God doesn't give preference to one sin over another.

[mdklatt]

Our country has turned from a stance of rejecting sin to accepting it because of the political correctness movement (among many others).

Like divorce, birth control, drinking, shopping on Sundays, mixed marriages? These were all considered sins at some point, or are still considered sins by certain denominations.

How do you know that the Episcopal leader is wrong? She read the same Bible as you do and came up with a different answer. What makes you think you are more in touch with God's will than she is?

[slickdawg]

It's just Catholic-lite.

[Okla-homey]

Like divorce, birth control, drinking, shopping on Sundays, mixed marriages? These were all considered sins at some point, or are still considered sins by certain denominations.

How do you know that the Episcopal leader is wrong? She read the same Bible as you do and came up with a different answer. What makes you think you are more in touch with God's will than she is?

B/c when asked about specific scripture condemning sodomy, she basically said, "yep, that's what it says, but that's not what they meant" and likens it to Mosaic dietary laws. To me, revisionism is a slippery slope. When a person chooses to accept only the scriptural rules for living of which they approve, and dismiss the stuff they don't, it kinda turns the whole thing into a "lets all hold hands and exchange ignorances" session and makes a mockery of it all. Sure, I sometimes mow the lawn on the Sabbath, but strictly speaking, I know I shouldn't. I would not respect a member of the clergy who preached that it was fine to do so in an attempt to be "inclusive" and make me feel good about myself when I do.

I acknowledge people have a right to engage in this lifestyle. I don't want them harassed or hurt in any way. I just find it personally offensive that a prelate in an major denomination would presume to pronounce the active gay lifestyle consistent with Christian faith based on her own personal interpretation of the Bible which is counter to centuries of Christian theology and the sincere deeply held beliefs of billions of people of good will. Its a bumper sticker, but I still think we should love the sinner but hate the sin.

[Jimminy Crimson]

It's just Catholic-heathen.

[usmc-sooner]

but I still think we should love the sinner but hate the sin.

I'm sure there some gay people out there who are all about loving a sinner, maybe 3 or 4 times.

[Sooner_Bob]

Like divorce, birth control, drinking, shopping on Sundays, mixed marriages? These were all considered sins at some point, or are still considered sins by certain denominations.

How do you know that the Episcopal leader is wrong? She read the same Bible as you do and came up with a different answer. What makes you think you are more in touch with God's will than she is?

Denominations don't decide what's a sin and what's not. God does.

[usmc-sooner]

I don't have a dog in the Episcopalian fight. But it seems to me the Episcopal church is just the first of many denominations that will end up having a very difficult internal diaologue about how to handle the issue of homosexuality. And trust me, I understand that it won't be easy. I went through the same thing myself...over more than a decade.

I grew up in a great, stable, middle-class home with a conservative mom and dad, and went to a conservative southern baptist church 3 times most weeks from birth until I left for college. After a decade of pain I reached the conclusion that I don't believe in a god that would saddle me with such a "sin" that is so intrinsic to my very being and send me off to hell for it. If I'm wrong and end up there, then eternal separation from such a god is fine with me (call it mutual rejection, if you will). It's been over 5 years since I made peace with myself and I've never been happier.

So that's my story in one paragraph...and now the Episcopalian church is confronting the reality many of us have already had to deal with for years. It doesn't really matter to me how it ends up for the church. Even if they decide in the end to take a hardline stand against homosexuality, I respect them for having an honest discussion about it...as opposed to other denominations who have chosen a coordinated effort of demonization against gays from the pulpit and in politics.

I've never tried to demonize gay people, I think it's wrong, disturbing, disgusting but I have never gone out of my way to harm one, put one down or any other thing. The pastor of my church feels it is wrong but says you know the whole forgiveness thing. I don't think he has ever called for the head of gay person. There were actually a lesbian couple who came to our church, he didn't harp on them.

I even knew a gay guy serving in the Navy. I never once tried to get him in trouble or turn him in. He didn't bother me I didn't bother him.

I think maybe that if someone doesn't agree with your lifestyle they aren't automatically some kind of hate monger.

[soonerscuba]

I even knew a gay guy serving in the Navy.

Shocking, the Navy, you say?

[GDC]

The sooner everyone realizes the whole religion thing is a bunch of bull**** the better off we will be.

[GhostOfJAS]

Homosexuality isn't the only sin that gets "singled out" from the pulpit. Most churches don't spend Sunday after Sunday bashing gays.

Our country has turned from a stance of rejecting sin to accepting it because of the political correctness movement (among many others).

You say that you feel that God saddled you with the intrinsic sin of homosexuality . . . do you also feel that God saddles suicide bombers with their burden of choosing to blow up themselves and kill innocent people? Keeping in mind that God doesn't give preference to one sin over another.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond to someone comparing me to a suicide bomber, so consider this a generic response (anyone who compares me to a terrorist can take their "love the sinner" and shove it up their ***). I think it's arrogant to say people who have struggled and accepted gays - either in themselves or their friends or families or neighbors - do so for "political correctness". Perhaps they simply realize all they've been fed about gays being dangerous diseased satanists is BS.

Maybe not "singled out", but evangelicals these days spend a severely disproportionate amount of time and energy talking about it - in church and in politics. Just look at the speeches and public statements by James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, et al. Ten mentions of evil homosexuals for any one mention of any other sin. I wouldn't care if they kept it behind the pulpit, but before you say "they don't speak for me as a Christian!" consider how much pull they have in government. And their constant demonization in the political arena DOES have an impact on my daily life.

I've never tried to demonize gay people, I think it's wrong, disturbing, disgusting but I have never gone out of my way to harm one, put one down or any other thing.

I don't think this makes any sense. Wouldn't you say that if I called all marines as a group "wrong, disturbing, disgusting", I was demonizing the individuals, or at least putting them down?

[Sooner_Bob]

I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond to someone comparing me to a suicide bomber, so consider this a generic response (anyone who compares me to a terrorist can take their "love the sinner" and shove it up their ***).

I knew you would latch on to that . . . and knew you'd feel there was a comparison. Which there wasn't but whatever.

I don't know why I even bothered to respond to this thread. Anyone who doesn't blindly accept "everything" is automatically labeled a bigot or a racist.

I think it's arrogant to say people who have struggled and accepted gays - either in themselves or their friends or families or neighbors - do so for "political correctness". Perhaps they simply realize all they've been fed about gays being dangerous diseased satanists is BS.

I hardly consider myself arrogant, but I do consider all the propoganda from both sides of the gay arguement BS.

Maybe not "singled out", but evangelicals these days spend a severely disproportionate amount of time and energy talking about it - in church and in politics. Just look at the speeches and public statements by James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, et al. Ten mentions of evil homosexuals for any one mention of any other sin. I wouldn't care if they kept it behind the pulpit, but before you say "they don't speak for me as a Christian!" consider how much pull they have in government. And their constant demonization in the political arena DOES have an impact on my daily life.

If both sides would just quit pushing one lifestyle on the other we'd all be happier.

[GDC]

I'm getting married in an Episcopal church in November, is that bad? I don't know **** about them. Most of my ex-wives were Catholics, they scare me.

[Stanley1]

as opposed to other denominations who have chosen a coordinated effort of demonization against gays from the pulpit and in politics.

You mean other demonimations that haven't given in to the public pressure?