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    Liberal Stuff Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

    We venture to the very heart of the hell that is Scandinavian socialism—and find out that it’s not so bad. Pricey, yes, but a good place to start and run a company. What exactly does that suggest about the link between taxes and entrepreneurship?


    Wiggo Dalmo is a classic entrepreneurial type: the Working-Class Kid Made Good.

    Dalmo, who is 39, with sandy blond hair and an easy smile, grew up in modest circumstances in a blue-collar town dominated by the steel industry. After graduating from high school, he apprenticed as an industrial mechanic and got a job repairing mining equipment.

    He liked the challenge of the work but not the drudgery of working for someone else. "I never felt like there was a place for me as an employee," Dalmo explains as we drive past spent chemical drums and enormous mounds of scrap metal on the road that leads to his office. When he needed an inexpensive part to complete a repair, company rules required Dalmo to fill out a purchase order and wait days for approval, when he knew he could simply walk into a hardware store and buy one. He resented this on a practical level—and as an insult to his intelligence. "I wanted more responsibility at my job, more control," he says. "I wanted freedom."

    In 1998, Dalmo quit his job, bought a used pickup truck, and started calling on clients as an independent contractor. By year's end, he had six employees, all mechanics, and he was making more money than he ever had. Within three years, his new company, Momek, was booking more than $1 million a year in revenue and quickly expanding into new lines of business. He built a machine shop and began manufacturing parts for oil rigs, and he started bidding on and winning contracts to staff oil drilling sites and mines throughout the country. He kept hiring, kept bidding, and when he looked around a decade later, he had a $44 million company with 150 employees.

    As his company grew, Dalmo adopted the familiar habits of successful entrepreneurs. He bought a Porsche, a motorcycle, and a wardrobe of polo shirts with his corporate logo on the chest. As rock music blasts from the speakers in his office, Dalmo tells me that he is proud of the company he has created. "We tried to build a family, and we have succeeded," he says. "I have no friends outside this company."

    This is exactly the kind of pride I often hear from the CEOs I have met while working at Inc., but for one important difference: Whereas most entrepreneurs in Dalmo's position develop a retching distaste for paying taxes, Dalmo doesn't mind them much. "The tax system is good—it's fair," he tells me. "What we're doing when we are paying taxes is buying a product. So the question isn't how you pay for the product; it's the quality of the product." Dalmo likes the government's services, and he believes that he is paying a fair price.

    This is particularly surprising, because the prices Dalmo pays for government services are among the highest in the world. He lives and works in the small city of Mo i Rana, which is about 17 miles south of the Arctic Circle in Norway. As a Norwegian, he pays nearly 50 percent of his income to the federal government, along with a substantial additional tax that works out to roughly 1 percent of his total net worth. And that's just what he pays directly. Payroll taxes in Norway are double those in the U.S. Sales taxes, at 25 percent, are roughly triple.

    Last year, Dalmo paid $102,970 in personal taxes on his income and wealth. I know this because tax returns, like most everything else in Norway, are a matter of public record. Anyone anywhere can log on to a website maintained by the government and find out what kind of scratch a fellow Norwegian taxpayer makes—be he Ole Einar Bjørndalen, the famous Norwegian biathlete, or Ole the next-door neighbor. This, Dalmo explains, has a chilling effect on any desire he might have to live even larger. "When you start buying expensive stuff, people start to talk," says Dalmo. "I have to be careful, because some of the people who are judging are my potential customers."

    Welcome to Norway, where business is radically transparent, militantly egalitarian, and, of course, heavily taxed. This is socialism, the sort of thing your average American CEO has nightmares about. But not Dalmo—and not most Norwegians. "The capitalist system functions well," Dalmo says. "But I'm a socialist in my bones."

    Norway, population five million, is a very small, very rich country. It is a cold country and, for half the year, a dark country. (The sun sets in late November in Mo i Rana. It doesn't rise again until the end of January.) This is a place where entire cities smell of drying fish—an odor not unlike the smell of rotting fish—and where, in the most remote parts, one must be careful to avoid polar bears. The food isn't great.

    Bear strikes, darkness, and whale meat notwithstanding, Norway is also an exceedingly pleasant place to make a home. It ranked third in Gallup's latest global happiness survey. The unemployment rate, just 3.5 percent, is the lowest in Europe and one of the lowest in the world. Thanks to a generous social welfare system, poverty is almost nonexistent.

    Norway is also full of entrepreneurs like Wiggo Dalmo. Rates of start-up creation here are among the highest in the developed world, and Norway has more entrepreneurs per capita than the United States, according to the latest report by the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor, a Boston-based research consortium. A 2010 study released by the U.S. Small Business Administration reported a similar result: Although America remains near the top of the world in terms of entrepreneurial aspirations -- that is, the percentage of people who want to start new things—in terms of actual start-up activity, our country has fallen behind not just Norway but also Canada, Denmark, and Switzerland.


    If you care about the long-term health of the American economy, this should seem strange—maybe even troubling. After all, we have been told for decades that higher taxes are without-a-doubt, no-question-about-it Bad for Business. President Obama recently bragged that his administration had passed "16 different tax cuts for America's small businesses over the last couple years. These are tax cuts that can help America—help businesses...making new investments right now."

    Since the Reagan Revolution, which drastically cut tax rates for wealthy individuals and corporations, we have gotten used to hearing these sorts of announcements from our leaders. Few have dared to argue against tax cuts for businesses and business owners. Questioning whether entrepreneurs really need tax cuts has been like asking if soldiers really need weapons or whether teachers really need textbooks—a possible position, sure, but one that would likely get you laughed out of the room if you suggested it. Or thrown out of elected office.

    Taxes in the U.S. have fallen dramatically over the past 30 years. In 1978, the top federal tax rates were as follows: 70 percent for individuals, 48 percent for corporations, and almost 40 percent on capital gains. Americans as a whole paid the ninth-lowest taxes among countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a group of 34 of the largest democratic, market economies. Today, the top marginal tax rates are 35 percent, 35 percent, and 15 percent, respectively. (Even these rates overstate the level of taxation in America. Few large corporations pay anywhere near the 35 percent corporate tax; Warren Buffett has famously said that he pays 18 percent in income tax.) Only two countries in the OECD—Chile and Mexico—pay a lower percentage of their gross domestic product in taxes than we Americans do.

    But there is precious little evidence to suggest that our low taxes have done much for entrepreneurs—or even for the economy as a whole. "It's actually quite hard to say how tax policy affects the economy," says Joel Slemrod, a University of Michigan professor who served on the Council of Economic Advisers under Ronald Reagan. Slemrod says there is no statistical evidence to prove that low taxes result in economic prosperity. Some of the most prosperous countries—for instance, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, and, yes, Norway—also have some of the highest taxes. Norway, which in 2009 had the world's highest per-capita income, avoided the brunt of the financial crisis: From 2006 to 2009, its economy grew nearly 3 percent. The American economy grew less than one-tenth of a percent during the same period. Meanwhile, countries with some of the lowest taxes in Europe, like Ireland, Iceland, and Estonia, have suffered profoundly. The first two nearly went bankrupt; Estonia, the darling of antitax groups like the Cato Institute, currently has an unemployment rate of 16 percent. Its economy shrank 14 percent in 2009.

    Moreover, the typical arguments peddled by business groups and in the editorial pages of The Wall Street Journal— the idea, for instance, that George W. Bush's tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 created economic growth—are problematic. The unemployment rate rose following the passage of both tax-cut packages, and economic growth during Bush's eight years in office badly lagged growth during the Clinton presidency, before the tax cuts were passed.

    And so the case of Norway—one of the most entrepreneurial, most heavily taxed countries in the world—should give us pause. What if we have been wrong about taxes? What if tax cuts are nothing like weapons or textbooks? What if they don't matter as much as we think they do?
    I'm sure I've already pissed off some people with that question—and not just the rich ones. It's hard these days to say anything positive about taxes without being accused of economic treason. President Barack Obama's health care plan and his proposal to allow certain Bush tax cuts to expire in 2012—a move that would cause the top marginal tax rate on individuals to go up by 4.6 basis points, to the rate that prevailed in the late 1990s—have caused the administration to be eviscerated by business groups and their allies. "We are essentially undoing the very thing that has made America exceptional: the free enterprise system," wrote congressional candidate (and now a Republican congressman from New York) Richard Hanna in a letter published by the National Federation of Independent Business. "We can no longer devalue the energy of the entrepreneur this way." Newt Gingrich, a presidential hopeful and the former Speaker of the House, has called Obama's presidency the first step toward "European socialism and secularism," which he has suggested is a greater threat to our country than Islamic terrorism.

    MOAR!
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  2. #2
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    I think posts of canned internet pics should be taxed heavily.

    Ditto with really long cut and paste jobs.

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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourbon St Sooner View Post
    I think posts of canned internet pics should be taxed heavily.

    Ditto with really long cut and paste jobs.
    I think New Orleans should be bulldozed and a Disneyland set up in it's place. Oh, wait...
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    I think we should all have a snowball fight in the nude.

  5. #5
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Dorks that talk about any subject all the time are full of crap.

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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    I think we should all listen to 3G.

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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    As long as you don't incessantly talk about 3G.

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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    I think I rescind my previous statement concerning 3g.

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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by The View Post
    I think New Orleans should be bulldozed and a Disneyland set up in it's place. Oh, wait...
    The guy you voted for thinks otherwise.

    New Orleans Saints SB 44 Champs. Suck it!

  10. #10
    Not Exactly Right soonerbrat's Avatar
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    i don't feel like reading all that. can you give me the reader's digest version?
    Whenever a boy comes you should always have something baking.

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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourbon St Sooner View Post
    The guy you voted for thinks otherwise.

    New Orleans Saints SB 44 Champs. Suck it!
    Who? I wrote in Bill Hicks. He doesn't give a **** about New Orleans. Or much of anything else these days, wither.
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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member saucysoonergal's Avatar
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    I really like the Honey Chicken at my favorite Chinese place. I just stumbled onto it by accident and it is like candy I tell you! YUM!!!
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerbrat View Post
    i don't feel like reading all that. can you give me the reader's digest version?
    Politics aren't for womenfolk. You should be more concerned about sandwich recipes and Cosmo articles about how to please your man.
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by My Opinion Matters View Post
    I think we should all listen to 3G.
    This is a mistake. It will only lead to being drunk on Jager and lost on an unfamiliar continent.
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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member saucysoonergal's Avatar
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by The View Post
    Politics aren't for womenfolk. You should be more concerned about sandwich recipes and Cosmo articles about how to please your man.
    Is that what you do when you aren't getting your shoes thrown on the roof?
    Apathetic Posse Ringleader


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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by saucysoonergal View Post
    Is that what you do when you aren't getting your shoes thrown on the roof?
    I never really liked shoes anyways.
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    What? 3rdgensooner's Avatar
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by The View Post
    This is a mistake. It will only lead to being drunk on Jager and lost on an unfamiliar continent.
    Quit whining, you found your way back.

  18. #18
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by The View Post
    Who? I wrote in Bill Hicks. He doesn't give a **** about New Orleans. Or much of anything else these days, wither.
    But our mayor just raised taxes. It's been like a utopia ever since. I'm going to go start a business.

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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourbon St Sooner View Post
    But our mayor just raised taxes. It's been like a utopia ever since. I'm going to go start a business.
    Good for you!
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    Re: Why you dorks that talk about taxes all the time are full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdgensooner View Post
    Quit whining, you found your way back.
    Yeah, but the hangover was hell and chk was laughing at me.
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