OU vs.oSu men's baketball,who has a brihgter future?

[stoopified]

Based on what has transpired so far at OU under first year coach Jeff Capel,I think the advantage is OU's.Capel has OU playing competitively against everyone as the season winds down,while Mr.Floppy(Sutton) not only has trouble standing up,so apparently does his team.

I can't help wondering how good OU would be this year if Reynolds,James, Mayfield (known collectively in my mind as THE TRAMPOLINE TRIO(for the way they bounced out of OU's future),had honored their word and LOI.Last I checked Reynolds was averaging 12.5 points a game and 4 assists with a good assist to TO ratio,Mayfield was averaging about 4 points and 2.5 rebounds a game,while James is 7&7 guy(points & rebounds).Next year with the players already signed (Blake Griffin,Chris Early,Tony Neysmith,Cade Davis) and possible 1 or 2 additions in April we should (IMHO) be back in the league upper divsion and in THE DANCE.

Mr. Floppy meanwhile has had better talent than OU(admittedly thinner numbers)and has manged to go from TOP 10 Nationally to eighth place in the Big 12.An accomplishment worthy of the first annual Boo Blake Coaching Award(baketballDivision.).The only thing that can save Junior from a major hotseat next year is a hot finish.If there isn't a big improve ment by the Pokes next year the Orange Mob will be howling.Only time will tell.

Why was it that the EXPERTS assumed Junior was a better coach than Capel?They MUST HAVE thought he was better as oSu was universally picked to finish ahead of OU.Maybe it was the auperior coaching record ,lets see Capel was 79-41 coming into this season and Mr. Floppy was uh,lets see here,0-0.The only reason I can come up with is the S -u -t-t-o-n on the end of his name.Yeah thats a good reason,just ask DePaul.On the plus side TT will also find that out after Bobby Knightmare retires.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

The question obviously could lead to a debate between OU and OSU fans over who has better recruits coming in, etc. Depending on the publication ours is probably better but some have OSU's class being better.

Only time will tell but as a basis of comparison I think this OSU team is a little like the MU team under Snyder a few years ago that was ranked #4 at one point before missing the tourney. I don't think this OSU team is nearly that talented but they have clearly mailed it in. They have depth issues and they are a pretty slow team.

OU is more similar to A&M a couple years ago. Not that we bottomed out have gone 0-16 or 1-15 like that A&M team but we have a team that plays hard, does the things that are coachable very well and has a good young core of players. (I'm not saying Maze will turn out to be AC LawIV) There's definitely some talent but we are 2-3 players short.

I'm not trying to knock Carter and Walker, especially since Carter has played so well during the conference season but I think collectively we are probably considerably better inside. Remove Carter, add Blake Griffin, Clark and T Griffin and Longar have another year experience.

Neal is going to be tough to replace as a shooter. Time will tell if we do but I don't think he is irreplacable. Love Walker's leadership but I bet any recruit we have on campus next year will have more offensive skills.

Plus I think evidence suggests Capel CAN coach and the team will improve.


The jury is out whether Sutton is head coaching material or not and OSU loses Boggan, a 20ppg guy. He will be much tougher to replace for them.

I think the immediate future, next 2-3 years definitely look better for OU.

[101sooner]

After Gallagher Iba was completed and OSU made their Final Four run, OSU fans just assumed that they had arrived as an elite program. It just doesn't work that way. They may not sniff a Final Four for 30 years. Just because you have a student body that tries to act like Duke fans doesn't make the program Duke. If an average program hires a bad coach, then they will suck. Sean has completely lost his team.

[Okieflyer]

Eddies gone!

Nuf said.

[tommieharris91]

After Gallagher Iba was completed and OSU made their Final Four run, OSU fans just assumed that they had arrived as an elite program. It just doesn't work that way. They may not sniff a Final Four for 30 years. Just because you have a student body that tries to act like Duke fans doesn't make the program Duke. If an average program hires a bad coach, then they will suck. Sean has completely lost his team.

I wish we had that kind of passion for basketball. Hell, sometimes I wish we had that kind of passion for football. By the way, I really do think Sean Sutton has lost his team. Except for today, they haven't played with any sembelance of heart or focus. At the end of the game today, OU players were really unhappy (especially Godbold). You could tell that, although they were the less talented team, they invested all they possibly could into this game. They didn't give up after being down 19 points. They kept trying, looking for open shots, playing good defense, hustling, etc. When I watch oSu play, they just look like they don't go after loose balls and have centers taking 3-point shots. Capel today got a technical for giving it to the refs that wore burnt orange, and also threw a basketball onto the court in protest of another call.

At the end of their game today, one of the cowboy players got an offensive rebound with 5 seconds left and down 2 points. Instead of taking an easier layup which would have taken the game to overtime, their player goes out to the 3-point line and almost airballs the last shot. I don't know if the player simply lost focus or that Sutton didn't hammer into his players' heads that they were down 2 points and were 4-0 in overtime games, but it definitely showed a lack of focus on someone's part. I really don't think they make (or made) this type of mistake on their way to 15-1.

[LittleWingSooner]

It depends on how good OU's freshmen are next year. I like our young guys right now but I outside of Crocker I don't see a star in the making with any of them. OSU has a few younger guys that are really talented.

[royalfan5]

Not strictly OU/OSU speaking but as a whole the Big XII did a great job hiring coaches last year. All of last years hires except Sutton brought significant track records of success, that should make the conference as a whole better, and the weak links will get chewed up. Those weak links could turnout to be pretty good coaches in the long run. I don't think Jr. Sutton will be Joey Meyer, but I wouldn't shocked if he turns into the second coming of Murray Bartow. The North could be really stacked in a year or two, with the coaches that were brought in. If you told me NU was going to have 16 wins with the talent we have in November, I would have looked at you as if you just said that Baylor would win the South in football. Andeson, Huggins, and McDermott have done solid jobs so far too with out much to work with. I have seen nothing to suggest that Capel won't be an outstanding coach. With that influx of coaching talent, I can only come to the conclusion that OSU is screwed.

[King Crimson]

At the end of their game today, one of the cowboy players got an offensive rebound with 5 seconds left and down 2 points. Instead of taking an easier layup which would have taken the game to overtime, their player goes out to the 3-point line and almost airballs the last shot. I don't know if the player simply lost focus or that Sutton didn't hammer into his players' heads that they were down 2 points and were 4-0 in overtime games, but it definitely showed a lack of focus on someone's part. I really don't think they make (or made) this type of mistake on their way to 15-1.

i saw that, that was weird.

[GoState]

I agree about the last shot of the TTU game. I was yelling at the TV for Boggan to just put the ball up and hope for a basket and/or foul. I can see going for the win by taking a fairly quick 3, but when Harris missed and Boggan got the rebound that close to the basket and could tie, he's got to take it. Whew. At least we played like we cared this time around.

Regarding the original poster. I don't know yet. I'm impressed with what Capel has done this year at OU. In some ways, they reminded me of Sampson teams; scrap and claw and remain in games. Your guys don't quit. Clearly, his guys are wanting to win. It's always good to see players like Carter have a breakout year, although he hasn't been consistent...but when he's good, he's very good. With the 2nd Griffin coming in and LL getting better, your inside game could be really nice next year.

For us, I'm not sure one way or the other yet. On one hand, Sean Sutton inherited a team that lost in the first round of the NIT last year. And there were some significant subtractions from that group and we only added Obi, who got hurt, and Tyler Hatch. Similar to what the OP mentioned about OU getting players you should have, if we keep all of our recruits/players we were expecting then things would probably be far different (Flowers, Green, as well as keeping Johnson, Fleming, and Brown)...hell, that's a whole starting team! Losing Obi was probably the biggest wrench in the works. We were 11-0 when he got hurt and have gone 8-9 since. He was our one constant slasher, as well as a tough defender. When the shots aren't falling - and believe me, they haven't fallen for us in awhile - you've got to have someone drive for easy scores. We just haven't had someone do that with any consistency. Eaton is trying and has had some success, but is still sporadic.

I wish I could say with certainty that Sean was the right person for the job. I hate nepotism/cronyism (and most other 'isms, for that matter). It would've been better if Sean had gone elsewhere on his own - some directional school, or a place of the caliber SMU, VMI, etc and learned the breaks away from Eddie. Then the prodigal son could come back better for the years he spent away coaching on his own. But...it didn't work out that way... If we're having this conversation this time next year about OSU players not competing, it will be hard to continue endorsing Sean. For now though, I feel pretty confident that we'll have a better season next year. Better than OU? My prediction is that we'll both be in the NCAA tournament next year, but not much more than that.

[Big Red Ron]

I agree about the last shot of the TTU game. I was yelling at the TV for Boggan to just put the ball up and hope for a basket and/or foul. I can see going for the win by taking a fairly quick 3, but when Harris missed and Boggan got the rebound that close to the basket and could tie, he's got to take it. Whew. At least we played like we cared this time around.

Regarding the original poster. I don't know yet. I'm impressed with what Capel has done this year at OU. In some ways, they reminded me of Sampson teams; scrap and claw and remain in games. Your guys don't quit. Clearly, his guys are wanting to win. It's always good to see players like Carter have a breakout year, although he hasn't been consistent...but when he's good, he's very good. With the 2nd Griffin coming in and LL getting better, your inside game could be really nice next year.

For us, I'm not sure one way or the other yet. On one hand, Sean Sutton inherited a team that lost in the first round of the NIT last year. And there were some significant subtractions from that group and we only added Obi, who got hurt, and Tyler Hatch. Similar to what the OP mentioned about OU getting players you should have, if we keep all of our recruits/players we were expecting then things would probably be far different (Flowers, Green, as well as keeping Johnson, Fleming, and Brown)...hell, that's a whole starting team! Losing Obi was probably the biggest wrench in the works. We were 11-0 when he got hurt and have gone 8-9 since. He was our one constant slasher, as well as a tough defender. When the shots aren't falling - and believe me, they haven't fallen for us in awhile - you've got to have someone drive for easy scores. We just haven't had someone do that with any consistency. Eaton is trying and has had some success, but is still sporadic.

I wish I could say with certainty that Sean was the right person for the job. I hate nepotism/cronyism (and most other 'isms, for that matter). It would've been better if Sean had gone elsewhere on his own - some directional school, or a place of the caliber SMU, VMI, etc and learned the breaks away from Eddie. Then the prodigal son could come back better for the years he spent away coaching on his own. But...it didn't work out that way... If we're having this conversation this time next year about OSU players not competing, it will be hard to continue endorsing Sean. For now though, I feel pretty confident that we'll have a better season next year. Better than OU? My prediction is that we'll both be in the NCAA tournament next year, but not much more than that.

Fair and well thought out. I'd give ya some spek but you are still aggie.

I think whichever team get Jai Lucas might end up slightly better. This year's Sooner team is a point guard away from the NCAA tournament. We don't have a single guard on our roster that played PG in HS.

[poke4christ]

Fair and well thought out. I'd give ya some spek but you are still aggie.

I think whichever team get Jai Lucas might end up slightly better. This year's Sooner team is a point guard away from the NCAA tournament. We don't have a single guard on our roster that played PG in HS.

Don't you allready have the number 10 point coming in?

[tommieharris91]

Tony Neysmith. I would really like Jai too though.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

It depends on how good OU's freshmen are next year. I like our young guys right now but I outside of Crocker I don't see a star in the making with any of them. OSU has a few younger guys that are really talented.

Actually I think Maze probably has a bigger upside and I can definitely see him becoming all all conference level player. Athletically he is about there now. He just needs to eliminate some of his mistakes to go with some of the good things he does. If you believe 1. That Capel can coach 2. that our players will work hard in the offseason & 3. that a year's experience will make a difference I don't see how our young guys won't improve.

[LittleWingSooner]

The problem with Maze is that he has no jump shot and he isn't a point. If he can get a jump shot then he can be really good.

[OSUAggie]

Both programs have very bright futures.

It's easy to rip Sean right now, because of the team's slide, but it isn't as if Eddie never let one of his teams slide ('99 & '02 to name a couple, plus they were terrible in '96 and '97). It appears :fingerscrossed: that this group has decided to wake up (other than dumb *** Boggan), and hopefully that will translate into two huge wins to end the regular season and a win or two in the Big XII Tourney to solidify their NCAA bid.

With the influx of talent next year, plus some addition by subtraction (Boggan & Monds gone), the team should be in decent shape if the players currently on campus can actually progress from one year to the next. The keys to next year are Kenny Cooper stepping up his game and Byron Eaton losing some weight. Marshall Moses and James Anderson should be able to contribute pretty heavily next season, with Sidorakis and Thomas likely redshirting. Also, Martavius Adams might be able to get some minutes down low. Jai Lucas would be a big get for backcourt depth, but I'm not holding my breath with him.

As for OU, the job Capel has done this year has been solid. Although the start was quite shaky, they rebounded nicely to post a few wins and have generally been competitive in conference play, although the record doesn't reflect how close they are to the upper half of the league. Capel/staff appear to be very competent recruiters, and his ability to get his team to respond this season has been quite remarkable. That seems to be a really good mixture for a bright future.

As to which program has the brighter future, I'd say OSU for two reasons: 1, I'm completely biased. 2, The on-campus talent right now is better in Stillwater, and the recruiting classes are pretty much even for 2007 (if Lucas goes to either school that will put that class over the other one, however). Plus, OSU, while struggling mightily throughout most of January and February, has had a far better year than OU.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

The problem with Maze is that he has no jump shot and he isn't a point. If he can get a jump shot then he can be really good.

Agree on the jump shot however I definitely think he can be a PG. If we sign Jai Lucas than he will be the #1 but I think Maze definitely could be a PG, in fact I think he probably is better used in the role because he can break people down off the dribble.

[NormanPride]

Yeah, I've thought Maze has looked pretty good at the point. He's only started a few games, and still is getting used to play at a D-1 level. He'll be really good.

[LittleWingSooner]

He's a turnover machine at point guard and an average passer.

[crawfish]

Maze can become a very good PG. He has quickness and good wheels. To be a great PG, he'll need to become a better shooter and passer.

The best PG's of the Sampson era - Quannas White and John Ontjes - were seriously limited in many ways yet still found a way to win. I don't doubt Maze can succeed.

[crawfish]

Oh, and as far as who has the brighter future, I'm still a bit unsold.

Capel, I give him a C+ for his effort this year. He will end up about where we expected him to - 7-9 or 6-10, NIT bubble. He gets a slight bump because, for a while, we looked like we might be NCAA bound.

Sutton gets a solid D. They did well early but have completely collapsed as of late. Internal strife seems high. They might finish above us, but they had the talent and expectations to be so much higher.

For the record, I'll bump Capel an entire letter grade if he lands Lucas.