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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Okla-homey's Avatar
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    Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Regardless of where you come down on US immigration policy, I think this was a good decision. Battered women, regardless of their immigration status, need a way out of the abusive relationship and this decision helps make escape possible.

    For the record, I don't care who ya are or where you're from...if you hit women, you are scum.

    U.S. Court Orders City to Ensure Aid for Battered Immigrants

    By NINA BERNSTEIN, NY Times
    Published: August 30, 2006

    A federal judge yesterday ordered the city to stop illegally denying food stamps and other aid to battered immigrant women and children and to overhaul the error-plagued computer programs and training manuals that continue to lead welfare workers to turn them away.

    The judge determined that high-level city policymakers had long been aware of the systemic problems, but did little or nothing to fix them until a group of battered women filed a lawsuit late last year. As a result, if the city and state continue to fight the lawsuit, the judge said, he will be highly likely to find them liable for “deliberate indifference” to violations of the plaintiffs’ federal and state rights.

    “It is not the policy of the United States, nor of the State of New York, to leave destitute the battered immigrant wives and children of lawful U.S. residents just because their abusive husbands are no longer supporting them or providing them with a basis for obtaining aid,” the judge, Jed S. Rakoff of United States District Court in Manhattan, wrote in his 83-page decision. He certified the lawsuit as a class action and issued a preliminary injunction against the city and state.

    The judge commended the city for fixing some of the problems since February, when he issued a partial injunction and held nine days of hearings in the case. But he added that problems persisted because of inadequate training, poor computer design and faulty directives.

    “The simple truth, moreover, is that the ameliorative actions now taken by the city and state defendants would not likely have been taken if this lawsuit had not been brought and had the court not issued its initial injunction,” he wrote.

    The decision is awkward for Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who is preparing to unveil a plan for attacking poverty in the city, a central goal of his second term. The plan is expected to focus on children, young adults and the working poor.

    Jane Tobey Momo, senior counsel for the city, said officials were reviewing the opinion to determine the city’s next steps. “While we are disappointed in the court’s findings,” she wrote in a statement, “we are pleased that the court recognized and commended the city for the extensive recent steps taken to ameliorate the difficulties in delivering benefits to noncitizen immigrants.

    “The difficult and changing federal and state statutes, regulations and policies present continuing challenges to the process,” she added.

    When the lawsuit was filed in December by the New York Legal Assistance Group and the Legal Aid Society, the lawyers called it a last resort, saying that officials had failed to fix problems that forced hundreds of women to choose between staying safe and feeding their families, despite government policies aimed at supporting them until they can get on their feet.

    About a dozen plaintiffs, mostly identified only by initials, include a woman from Senegal helping to prosecute the man accused of torturing her and murdering her sister; a Mexican mother of two whose husband chased her with a gun; and a Bangladeshi woman whose husband, since hospitalized for mental illness, kicked her in the abdomen while she was pregnant, cut up her clothes and threatened to kill her when she tried to go to work.

    Several fled to domestic violence shelters, only to find themselves unable to buy food or medicine for their children. In an affidavit, one breast-feeding mother wrote of going hungry and of feeling powerless as she and her young children lost weight.

    The abuse, documented in orders of protection, police reports and letters from domestic violence shelters, was not in question. Nor was eligibility for aid, often affirmed through administrative “fair hearings,” only to be denied again or automatically cut off.

    One of the basic problems lay in the pull-down computer menu that caseworkers used when entering information about a noncitizen applying for aid. The list of eligible immigration categories mistakenly omitted “battered qualified alien,” the category in which these women and children fit.
    "Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time." -- Abraham Lincoln, (1809-1865) Lawyer and President who saved the United States.

    "Without opportunities on the part of the poor to obtain expert legal advice, it is idle to talk of equality before the law"-- Justice Chas. Evans Hughes

  2. #2
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Gandalf_The_Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Scum is letting them off light

  3. #3
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 jeremy885's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Legal-yes they should be protected, but they shouldn't be given preferential treatment for their own immigration status. They should get a 90 day waiver, and then they either have to get a work visa or go home.

    Illegal-get them out of their situation first and then deport their asses back to their home countries.


    Sounds harsh, but people will take advantage of a "battered qualified alien" exemption right after they grant any special status to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beetdigger
    Given that 90% + of the comments on this board are not serious, I think that the true error is to assume that someone IS serious when they make a comment. Rather, assuming they were NOT serious should be the bias. The fabric of the board is really not too complex

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    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 frankensooner's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    I can hear Tony Monanya saying, "but you see I am a victim of domestic abuse"

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Okla-homey's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    see imbedded comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy885
    Legal-yes they should be protected, but they shouldn't be given preferential treatment for their own immigration status. They should get a 90 day waiver, and then they either have to get a work visa or go home. But what if they don't speak English well (yet), no marketable skills and have three or four kids and are thus unable to support them w/o gov't assistance? I think 90 days is too short. I think as long as the hypothetical legal alien battered wife shows evidence she is trying to improve her lot by job training and/or education the gubmint should be bound to help her and her kids out. After all, its not her fault she's in the fix she's in. I think that's prolly where the judge in this case is coming from too. The situation is further complicated in many instances when one of her children is born here and thus a US citizen. We can't deport that kid and we wouldn't want to give him to his sorry bastage father either

    Illegal-get them out of their situation first and then deport their asses back to their home countries. I agree unless one or more of her kids was born here (see above comment.)


    Sounds harsh, but people will take advantage of a "battered qualified alien" exemption right after they grant any special status to it. Just my opinion mind you, but its prolly unlikely women would fein battered wife status.
    "Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time." -- Abraham Lincoln, (1809-1865) Lawyer and President who saved the United States.

    "Without opportunities on the part of the poor to obtain expert legal advice, it is idle to talk of equality before the law"-- Justice Chas. Evans Hughes

  6. #6

    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    they wont fein battered status?

    get out much?

    does feining rape count?

  7. #7
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Okla-homey's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by jk the sooner fan
    they wont fein battered status?

    get out much?

    does feining rape count?
    But couldn't a seasoned investigator be able to figure that out? Seriously.
    "Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time." -- Abraham Lincoln, (1809-1865) Lawyer and President who saved the United States.

    "Without opportunities on the part of the poor to obtain expert legal advice, it is idle to talk of equality before the law"-- Justice Chas. Evans Hughes

  8. #8

    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Okla-homey
    But couldn't a seasoned investigator be able to figure that out? Seriously.
    most times yes....other times not so much

  9. #9
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Jimminy Crimson's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    We need to get rid of the anchor baby problem.

    That would solve a LOT!

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member AlbqSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    I read somewhere that 50,000 women are battered every year in the U.S.

    Dumb arse me - - I have been eating em plain all these years.
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with ketchup.

  11. #11
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Okla-homey's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimminy Crimson
    We need to get rid of the anchor baby problem.

    That would solve a LOT!
    That would require a new constitutional amendment re-defining the criteria for US citizenship by birth in the United States as stated in the Fourteenth Amendment. I don't think anyone could get that done.

    I maintain the only feasible and practical solution to the illegal immigrant problem is to effectively seal our southern border. We also need to acknowledge the fact we aren't rounding up the ten million or so who are already here. We need to to just nut-up to the fact they are here and we aren't getting rid of them. We could secure our southern border if Congress would act. Its 1700 miles but it could be done.
    "Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time." -- Abraham Lincoln, (1809-1865) Lawyer and President who saved the United States.

    "Without opportunities on the part of the poor to obtain expert legal advice, it is idle to talk of equality before the law"-- Justice Chas. Evans Hughes

  12. #12
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Jimminy Crimson's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Okla-homey
    That would require a new constitutional amendment re-defining the criteria for US citizenship by birth in the United States as stated in the Fourteenth Amendment. I don't think anyone could get that done.
    If you are here legally (green card, visa, guest worker, vacation, etc) then what you squirt out has citizenship rights. If you broke the effin law and have no place in the US of A, neither does what you pop out.

    DE-POR-TA-TION!

  13. #13
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Scott D's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    I don't remember that article saying any of them were illegal immigrants. Gotta love the leaps in logic here
    "The mark of a great player is in his ability to come back. The great champions have all come back from defeat." - Sam Snead

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Okla-homey's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott D
    I don't remember that article saying any of them were illegal immigrants. Gotta love the leaps in logic here
    This is true. These people are resident aliens who would normally be denied benefits and entitlements under most federal and state programs.
    "Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time." -- Abraham Lincoln, (1809-1865) Lawyer and President who saved the United States.

    "Without opportunities on the part of the poor to obtain expert legal advice, it is idle to talk of equality before the law"-- Justice Chas. Evans Hughes

  15. #15
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Jimminy Crimson's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott D
    I don't remember that article saying any of them were illegal immigrants. Gotta love the leaps in logic here


    I skimmed the article, I just assumed. heh

  16. #16
    Soon to be Memphibian

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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimminy Crimson
    If you are here legally (green card, visa, guest worker, vacation, etc) then what you squirt out has citizenship rights. If you broke the effin law and have no place in the US of A, neither does what you pop out.

    DE-POR-TA-TION!
    Again, this requires a Constitutional amendment.
    "The choices we discern as having been made in the Constitutional Convention impose burdens on governmental proceses that often seem clumsy, inefficient, even unworkable, but those hard choices were consciously made by men who had lived under a form of government that permitted arbitrary governmental acts to go unchecked." INS v. Chadha, 462 U.S. 919 (1983) (Burger, C.J.)

  17. #17
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Jimminy Crimson's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Rich
    Again, this requires a Constitutional amendment.
    This is true.

    Depending on the outcome of the elections, this next session might be a good time to give it a whirl.

  18. #18
    Soon to be Memphibian

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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimminy Crimson
    This is true.

    Depending on the outcome of the elections, this next session might be a good time to give it a whirl.
    Still wouldn't fix what you want to fix (or at least what you're talking about in this thread.)

    The children in this case are children of US Citizens-and as such have automatic US Citizenship regardless of where they're born or the legal status of their mother.
    "The choices we discern as having been made in the Constitutional Convention impose burdens on governmental proceses that often seem clumsy, inefficient, even unworkable, but those hard choices were consciously made by men who had lived under a form of government that permitted arbitrary governmental acts to go unchecked." INS v. Chadha, 462 U.S. 919 (1983) (Burger, C.J.)

  19. #19
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Okla-homey's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Rich
    Still wouldn't fix what you want to fix (or at least what you're talking about in this thread.)

    The children in this case are children of US resident aliens-and as such have automatic US Citizenship regardless of where they're born or the legal status of their mother.
    fixed it.
    "Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time." -- Abraham Lincoln, (1809-1865) Lawyer and President who saved the United States.

    "Without opportunities on the part of the poor to obtain expert legal advice, it is idle to talk of equality before the law"-- Justice Chas. Evans Hughes

  20. #20
    Soon to be Memphibian

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    Re: Interesting legal development in the area of immigration policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Okla-homey
    fixed it.
    It was my assumption from the article that the husbands were citizens and the wives weren't yet.

    However, you are correct-"lawful US resident" doesn't necessarily imply citizenship.
    "The choices we discern as having been made in the Constitutional Convention impose burdens on governmental proceses that often seem clumsy, inefficient, even unworkable, but those hard choices were consciously made by men who had lived under a form of government that permitted arbitrary governmental acts to go unchecked." INS v. Chadha, 462 U.S. 919 (1983) (Burger, C.J.)

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