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  1. #61
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Hamhock's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by jk the sooner fan
    how is daycare any different than school?

    not sure that it is. there is some point that a child is ready to interact with others and doesn't need the close nurturing of it's mother. obviously, each child is different and we may not be able to know when exactly that time is. i feel pretty safe it saying in ain't 6 weeks.
    heh.

  2. #62
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member 1stTimeCaller's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    I've never raised a kid but I was a kid.

    If there were one surefire way to raise perfect kids everyone would be doing it. For those of you that think stay at home moms or dads are the only way to go for everyone else, you're wrong.
    For those of you that think both parents working and kids in daycare is the only way to go for everyone else, are wrong.
    Those that think breastfeeding is the only way to go for everyone, are wrong.
    one day

  3. #63
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Hamhock's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    I've never raised a kid but I was a kid.

    If there were one surefire way to raise perfect kids everyone would be doing it. .
    I disagree. Many parents are too absorbed with themselves, their careers, or money to do what is best for their kids. I'm not just talking about staying at home, but to say that parents always do what they think is best for their kids is dead wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    For those of you that think stay at home moms or dads are the only way to go for everyone else, you're wrong.
    For those of you that think both parents working and kids in daycare is the only way to go for everyone else, are wrong.
    Those that think breastfeeding is the only way to go for everyone, are wrong.

    mmm....breastfeeding....

    heh.

  4. #64
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member 1stTimeCaller's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhock
    I disagree. Many parents are too absorbed with themselves, their careers, or money to do what is best for their kids. I'm not just talking about staying at home, but to say that parents always do what they think is best for their kids is dead wrong.

    mmm....breastfeeding....

    So it's your position that there is one surefire way to raise a happy, intelligent, well adjusted kid?

    I agree with you that some maybe many parents are too absorbed with themselves to do what's best for their kids. Happens in stay at home situations as well as working parents.
    one day

  5. #65
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Taxman71's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    The key to a happy marriage is clearly spelled out by Jimmy Soul:

    If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you


    A pretty woman makes her husband look small
    And very often causes his downfall
    As soon as he marries her then she starts
    To do the things that will break his heart

    But if you make an ugly woman your wife
    you'll be happy for the rest of your life
    An ugly woman cooks meals on time
    And she'll always give you peace of mind

    Don't let your friends say you have no taste
    Go ahead and marry anyway
    Though her face is ugly, her eyes don't match
    Take it from me, she's a better catch

    Say man!
    Hey baby!
    I saw your wife the other day!
    Yeah?
    Yeah, an' she's ug-leeee!
    Yeah, she's ugly, but she sure can cook, baby!
    Yeah, alright!

  6. #66
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Sooner_Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by crawfish
    For any marriage, if the family isn't more important than the career for both the man and the woman, there is gonna be trouble.

    My wife and I chose together for her to quit her job and raise the kids. It was a tough decision and there were many prices to pay, but neither one of us regret it. I don't begrudge those who choose not to make that decision.

    Same here. It was tough to adjust to the single income, but we did it. Now that our kids are in school my wife has decided to go back to teaching fulltime. So it all works out in the end.

  7. #67
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Hamhock's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    So it's your position that there is one surefire way to raise a happy, intelligent, well adjusted kid?
    that is absolutely NOT what I am saying. Way too many factors involved to prescribe a single formula. All I'm saying is that the notion that parents make these decisions with the child's best interest in mind is naive.

    I am still waiting on someone to walk me down the logical thought path that justifies putting a 6 week old kid in daycare as in the best interest of the kid. i'm not saying it never is, i'm just saying that it normally is not.

    the idea put forth earlier that you should do it if it makes enough net money to buy more stuff for the kid is, in my opinion, what is part of wrong with society today.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    I agree with you that some maybe many parents are too absorbed with themselves to do what's best for their kids. Happens in stay at home situations as well as working parents.
    I won't say it never happens in stay at home moms, but the idea that a mom chooses to put a career on hold in order to raise her kids is self absorbed, seems a little strange to me.
    heh.

  8. #68
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member 1stTimeCaller's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhock
    that is absolutely NOT what I am saying. Way too many factors involved to prescribe a single formula. All I'm saying is that the notion that parents make these decisions with the child's best interest in mind is naive.
    What a parent perceives to be in their kid's best interest and what really is in the kid's best interest are not always the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhock
    I am still waiting on someone to walk me down the logical thought path that justifies putting a 6 week old kid in daycare as in the best interest of the kid. i'm not saying it never is, i'm just saying that it normally is not.
    Why is it so bad? Why is it in the kid's best interest to to stay at home? What age is acceptable for a kid to not be with his mom 24 hours a day? Seriously, walk me down that path. I'm just going on what I know was the case with my brother and me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhock
    the idea put forth earlier that you should do it if it makes enough net money to buy more stuff for the kid is, in my opinion, what is part of wrong with society today.
    To each his own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhock
    I won't say it never happens in stay at home moms, but the idea that a mom chooses to put a career on hold in order to raise her kids is self absorbed, seems a little strange to me.
    I never made that argument. But since you brought it up, maybe, just maybe, the person that puts their career on hold begins to resent the fact that they had to put their career on hold.

    My only point is that there is more than one way to raise a good kid. If you think that there is only one you are wrong.
    one day

  9. #69
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member colleyvillesooner's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    My only point is that there is more than one way to raise a good kid. If you think that there is only one you are wrong.

    I think the burning question everyone has is how were you raised so we can all not do that.
    Sometimes I think I drink alot, then I see, like, the Motley Crüe behind the music, and realize I'm a huge *****.

  10. #70
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Viking Kitten's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    What a parent perceives to be in their kid's best interest and what really is in the kid's best interest are not always the same.



    Why is it so bad? Why is it in the kid's best interest to to stay at home? What age is acceptable for a kid to not be with his mom 24 hours a day? Seriously, walk me down that path. I'm just going on what I know was the case with my brother and me.



    To each his own.



    I never made that argument. But since you brought it up, maybe, just maybe, the person that puts their career on hold begins to resent the fact that they had to put their career on hold.

    My only point is that there is more than one way to raise a good kid. If you think that there is only one you are wrong.
    Well put. If I hadn't been busy paying attention to my children last night, I would have typed something along these lines instead of rolling my eyes.

  11. #71
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member 1stTimeCaller's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by colleyvillesooner
    I think the burning question everyone has is how were you raised so we can all not do that.


    My dad was an over the road truck driver and my mom is a school teacher. I was never breast fed and spent my days at the lady's house across the street that kept kids. To be honest, I know my mom was never able to stay home to take care of my brother and me other than the summer time but I really can't remember the first three years of my life.

    I'd say that my brother and I turned out fine. I'm a little weird, OK, a lot weird but I'm a productive member of society
    one day

  12. #72
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Hamhock's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    What a parent perceives to be in their kid's best interest and what really is in the kid's best interest are not always the same.
    No argument here.

    I'm not saying that a parent is wrong because they think it is in the best interest of their kid to put them in daycare and it is, in my infinite wisdom, not best. I'm saying that many parents ignore what is best for their kids all together. I personally know of several instances where the mom has said, "It may be best for my kid for me to stay home, but we're not willing to take the financial hit. " and "It may be best for my kid to stay home but I don't want to give up my career".



    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    Why is it so bad? Why is it in the kid's best interest to to stay at home?
    It is my opinon that, on average, the best place for a child to be nurtured is not a daycare, but with his own mother. I recognize that is just my opinon and you have a right to feel that daycare is just as good as the mother.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    What age is acceptable for a kid to not be with his mom 24 hours a day? Seriously, walk me down that path. I'm just going on what I know was the case with my brother and me.
    First of all, 24 hours/day is a sensationalizing extreme. I never said that. My original question that started this whole discussion was how many awake hours does a kid spend with daycare vs. mother. As I said earlier, I don't know the age, it is different for each kid. Maybe the mom is worthless and the kid is best served by being in a daycare after 6 weeks.



    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    I never made that argument. But since you brought it up, maybe, just maybe, the person that puts their career on hold begins to resent the fact that they had to put their career on hold.
    You did make the argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    "I agree with you that some maybe many parents are too absorbed with themselves to do what's best for their kids. Happens in stay at home situations as well as working parents.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    My only point is that there is more than one way to raise a good kid. If you think that there is only one you are wrong.
    I'll state for the second time, that I don't think there is only one way to raise a kid.

    For the record, I was put in daycare after 6 weeks and was a latchkey kid at a very early age. I turned out ok and think my mom is the greatest woman to ever live.
    heh.

  13. #73
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Pricetag's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by crawfish
    For any marriage, if the family isn't more important than the career for both the man and the woman, there is gonna be trouble.
    Did anyone catch the episode of "Wifeswap" a few weeks back where the wealthy working couple had a kid, but then hired a "home manager," cook, housekeeper, etc., to do everything around the home? The "home manager" basically did all the parenting, and they hardly knew their teenage daughter.

    They were very frank about how they valued their careers too much to divert any time away from it. I wanted to beat both of them about the head and shoulders. Why the heck even have a kid, then?
    La ola es mía.

  14. #74
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 sooner n houston's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Ask any school teacher which kid they would rather have in their class.
    "You learn so much from a loss like this," Ash said. "You learn what it takes to play at the level Oklahoma plays."

  15. #75
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member colleyvillesooner's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by sooner n houston
    Ask any school teacher which kid they would rather have in their class.
    Can I just ask you since you seem to know the answer? Or are you a school teacher? My head hurts.
    Sometimes I think I drink alot, then I see, like, the Motley Crüe behind the music, and realize I'm a huge *****.

  16. #76
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 sooner n houston's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Point: Don't Marry Career Women
    By Michael Noer
    How do women, careers and marriage mix? Not well, say social scientists.

    Guys: A word of advice. Marry pretty women or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Blondes or brunettes. Just, whatever you do, don't marry a woman with a career.

    Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional women are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat, less likely to have children, and, if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it. A recent study in Social Forces, a research journal, found that women--even those with a "feminist" outlook--are happier when their husband is the primary breadwinner.

    Not a happy conclusion, especially given that many men, particularly successful men, are attracted to women with similar goals and aspirations. And why not? After all, your typical career girl is well-educated, ambitious, informed and engaged. All seemingly good things, right? Sure…at least until you get married. Then, to put it bluntly, the more successful she is the more likely she is to grow dissatisfied with you. Sound familiar?

    Many factors contribute to a stable marriage, including the marital status of your spouse's parents (folks with divorced parents are significantly more likely to get divorced themselves), age at first marriage, race, religious beliefs and socio-economic status. And, of course, many working women are indeed happily and fruitfully married--it's just that they are less likely to be so than non-working women. And that, statistically speaking, is the rub.

    To be clear, we're not talking about a high-school dropout minding a cash register. For our purposes, a "career girl" has a university-level (or higher) education, works more than 35 hours a week outside the home and makes more than $30,000 a year.

    If a host of studies are to be believed, marrying these women is asking for trouble. If they quit their jobs and stay home with the kids, they will be unhappy (Journal of Marriage and Family, 2003). They will be unhappy if they make more money than you do (Social Forces, 2006). You will be unhappy if they make more money than you do (Journal of Marriage and Family, 2001). You will be more likely to fall ill (American Journal of Sociology). Even your house will be dirtier (Institute for Social Research).

    Why? Well, despite the fact that the link between work, women and divorce rates is complex and controversial, much of the reasoning is based on a lot of economic theory and a bit of common sense. In classic economics, a marriage is, at least in part, an exercise in labor specialization. Traditionally men have tended to do "market" or paid work outside the home and women have tended to do "non-market" or household work, including raising children. All of the work must get done by somebody, and this pairing, regardless of who is in the home and who is outside the home, accomplishes that goal. Nobel laureate Gary S. Becker argued that when the labor specialization in a marriage decreases--if, for example, both spouses have careers--the overall value of the marriage is lower for both partners because less of the total needed work is getting done, making life harder for both partners and divorce more likely. And, indeed, empirical studies have concluded just that.

    In 2004, John H. Johnson examined data from the Survey of Income and Program Participation and concluded that gender has a significant influence on the relationship between work hours and increases in the probability of divorce. Women's work hours consistently increase divorce, whereas increases in men's work hours often have no statistical effect. "I also find that the incidence in divorce is far higher in couples where both spouses are working than in couples where only one spouse is employed," Johnson says. A few other studies, which have focused on employment (as opposed to working hours) have concluded that working outside the home actually increases marital stability, at least when the marriage is a happy one. But even in these studies, wives' employment does correlate positively to divorce rates, when the marriage is of "low marital quality."

    The other reason a career can hurt a marriage will be obvious to anyone who has seen their mate run off with a co-worker: When your spouse works outside the home, chances increase they'll meet someone they like more than you. "The work environment provides a host of potential partners," researcher Adrian J. Blow reported in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, "and individuals frequently find themselves spending a great deal of time with these individuals."

    There's more: According to a wide-ranging review of the published literature, highly educated people are more likely to have had extra-marital sex (those with graduate degrees are 1.75 more likely to have cheated than those with high school diplomas.) Additionally, individuals who earn more than $30,000 a year are more likely to cheat.

    And if the cheating leads to divorce, you're really in trouble. Divorce has been positively correlated with higher rates of alcoholism, clinical depression and suicide. Other studies have associated divorce with increased rates of cancer, stroke, and sexually-transmitted disease. Plus divorce is financially devastating. According to one recent study on "Marriage and Divorce's Impact on Wealth," published in The Journal of Sociology, divorced people see their overall net worth drop an average of 77%.

    So why not just stay single? Because, academically speaking, a solid marriage has a host of benefits beyond just individual "happiness." There are broader social and health implications as well. According to a 2004 paper entitled "What Do Social Scientists Know About the Benefits of Marriage?" marriage is positively associated with "better outcomes for children under most circumstances," higher earnings for adult men, and "being married and being in a satisfying marriage are positively associated with health and negatively associated with mortality." In other words, a good marriage is associated with a higher income, a longer, healthier life and better-adjusted kids.

    A word of caution, though: As with any social scientific study, it's important not to confuse correlation with causation. In other words, just because married folks are healthier than single people, it doesn't mean that marriage is causing the health gains. It could just be that healthier people are more likely to be married.
    "You learn so much from a loss like this," Ash said. "You learn what it takes to play at the level Oklahoma plays."

  17. #77
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member 1stTimeCaller's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    the idea that a mom chooses to put a career on hold in order to raise her kids is self absorbed
    is not the same as

    "I agree with you that some maybe many parents are too absorbed with themselves to do what's best for their kids. Happens in stay at home situations as well as working parents.
    I know a lady that is a stay at home mom. Her kids watch PBS all day every day. Is PBS wrong for kids? No, that's not what I'm saying. She uses the TV to babysit the kids so she can do what she wants. They do go to the park from time to time but she stays at home because she doesn't want to work, not so she can raise kids. They get in her way.

    That, my friend, was the point I was making about not all stay at home mom's have their kid's best interests at heart. 'Career on hold' was never written in my second quote.
    one day

  18. #78
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member crawfish's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    You know, without career women we'd have to hire hookers to cheat on our wives.

    VIVA THE CAREER WOMAN!!!

  19. #79
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member IB4OU2's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller


    My dad was an over the road truck driver and my mom is a school teacher. I was never breast fed and spent my days at the lady's house across the street that kept kids. To be honest, I know my mom was never able to stay home to take care of my brother and me other than the summer time but I really can't remember the first three years of my life.

    I'd say that my brother and I turned out fine. I'm a little weird, OK, a lot weird but I'm a productive member of society
    but there was a little process training glitch when you transitioned from diaper to the potty was'nt there?

  20. #80
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Hamhock's Avatar
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    Re: Don't marry a career woman

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stTimeCaller
    is not the same as



    I know a lady that is a stay at home mom. Her kids watch PBS all day every day. Is PBS wrong for kids? No, that's not what I'm saying. She uses the TV to babysit the kids so she can do what she wants. They do go to the park from time to time but she stays at home because she doesn't want to work, not so she can raise kids. They get in her way.

    That, my friend, was the point I was making about not all stay at home mom's have their kid's best interests at heart. 'Career on hold' was never written in my second quote.

    That's a very good illustration of your point and I agree with you completely.

    Don't her kids go to school?
    heh.

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