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  1. #21
    Yacht Rocker

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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by OUDoc
    You like to hold hands in the moonlight, don't you?
    I prefer to be a Polly Positive instead of a Nancy Negative.

  2. #22
    Mmm... ...ribs.

    BigRedJed's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Guys, what I'm saying is this: the NBA wants the deal in Seattle to work out. If it doesn't, it doesn't. But Seattle is a major market, a world-class city. If hoop fails up there (not to mention with a 40 year old franchise that has a title under its belt), it's a bigger black eye to the league than if New Orleans can't support a team post-hurricane. Hell, everyone knows they couldn't even do so pre-Katrina. The league didn't really want Shinn to move there anyway, and it was immediately apparent the move was a mistake.

    If the deal doesn't work out, we get the Sonics. There's of course a very good chance that happens. However, if it does get worked out, Bennett and the other investors will stand to reap tremendous profits in Seattle, whether by selling the team or riding it out for a few years.

    But I think you're wrong about saying moving the Hornets back to NOLA reeks of PC. What it does is end the debate about whether the team can go back, it ends the uncertainty, and it ends the bitching. New Orleans, the city that was letting the team wither and slide towards bankruptcy, is now demanding their team back. So give it back. You'll be giving them enough rope to hang themselves. When the team fails, the league can throw up its hands and say, "we tried!"

    Then you have the following situation: provided Seattle comes through, you have a revitalized team in a quality, major market, and you have legitimate reason to move the Hornets to a market where they will thrive, with nobody saying OKC "stole" their team. It's brilliant.

    The Hornets come back to OKC to much fanfare, everyone breaks out their Hornets gear, and the love affair resumes. Oh... ...but they have a new owner. The old one finally got leveraged into selling.

    I believe that is the scenario the league would prefer.

    But if Seattle drops the ball, well then we get the Sonics, and the Hornets flounder until they get sold and/or move elsewhere. Not as attractive to the league, but an acceptable scenario. One team in OKC, which the league believes has proven itself, and one team to another city that is also anxious to get the NBA.
    Well, crap.

  3. #23
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Mjcpr's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Will you still be able to wear your Chris Paul jersey when he's signed a FA contract with the Knicks?


  4. #24
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Who gets to attached to players anymore? NBA rosters have a complete turnover, what, every three years? Rooting for players is more of a college fan mentality.
    I'm not happy until you're not happy.

  5. #25
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Gandalf_The_Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjcpr
    Will you still be able to wear your Chris Paul jersey when he's signed a FA contract with the Knicks?

    ****...The Knicks only sign 6'5"- 6'6" Center Power Forward Combo's. If the Knicks keep it they will be the only team in the league since 1978 to have a 6'1 PG 6'2" SG 6'5" SF 6'5" PF 6'5" C

  6. #26
    Mmm... ...ribs.

    BigRedJed's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Dude, I'll rock the Hornets CP3 jersey no matter who signs him when he turns FA, and no matter what team is playing in the FC. I have a man crush on him that rivals the one I have on Wayne Coyne.
    Well, crap.

  7. #27
    Mmm... ...ribs.

    BigRedJed's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    If you're lucky, I'll remember to wear a T-shirt under it.
    Well, crap.

  8. #28
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Gandalf_The_Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    I think Courtney Paris would be the Knick's biggest PF if she was there this year

  9. #29
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Mjcpr's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedJed
    Dude, I'll rock the Hornets CP3 jersey no matter who signs him when he turns FA, and no matter what team is playing in the FC. I have a man crush on him that rivals the one I have on Wayne Coyne.
    I was just joking because if the NOLA scenario plays out, I can't imagine players of his caliber wanting to stay there. If the Hornets are destined to returned to OKC I hope he stays though.

  10. #30
    Mmm... ...ribs.

    BigRedJed's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    A little more: the league will be expanding again within the next few years. If Seattle builds an arena AND the nearly impossible happens -- that is, George Shinn finds a way to survive in NOLA -- the timeline will be moved up and OKC will get an expansion franchise. The franchise will be owned by Clay and whichever of his partners choose to sell their interest in the re-invigorated Supersonics (at a healthy profit).

    Contrary to my previous musings, I'm pretty convinced there is no chance Shinn will be offered Seattle or an interest in it. Besides, he will be broke. The league doesn't want him as an owner. He has refused to sell, or even to give OKC partners first right of refusal in case he sells, dies or becomes incapacitated, so starving him is the only way to get him out of the league (his choice).

    If he goes broke in NOLA, the league will retain ownership of the team, much like MLB did with the Expos/Nationals. They can then name the city the team relocates to. Or, old George could change his mind and elect to sell. The only problem for him is that the league can dictate who he sells to. They can also expressly forbid him to move the franchise again. He is screwed.

    Everyone (including fans and media in Seattle) is just assuming the Sonics are coming here. Not so fast. There will be an honest effort to retain them in Seattle. Mark my words. It's better for the league to have teams in Seattle and OKC than OKC and NOLA, or OKC and wherever. If the ship is righted in Seattle it will also give Clay and Co. some serious profit potential.

    Get ready for George Shinn to start treating OKC really poorly. The handwriting is on the wall; he knows OKC has slipped through his grasp, and he will start a last-ditch effort to kiss up to NOLA. Witness his attempt to get the opening night game moved from OKC to NOLA.

    He's fighting a losing battle, though. The Hornets' one and only major sponsor pre-Katrina has filed for Chapter 11 and moved from New Orleans. The corporate base doesn't exist. The population base is 2/3 the size, and it would be by far the smallest NBA city. Keep in mind that pre-Katrina they were STILL last place in attendance in the league.

    The Hornets play in NOLA next year, and will be playing in OKC, Kansas City, Vegas or somewhere else within a year or two of that move. The NBA can say they gave NOLA an honest effort and it failed, so no egg on its face. The Hornets are then moved to a city can support them, with a new owner.

    Which city they move to only depends on whether the Bellevue arena deal gets done for the Sonics, which is actually a stronger possibility than most people think. If it does, you are likely to have two NBA teams owned by investors with Oklahoma City ties.

    Ed Evans could almost certainly buy out Clay and Co. when the time comes for them to buy the Hornets or an expansion franchise. He headed up the effort to get the Nationals moved to D.C. and was the expected owner of the team. He was shocked when the Nationals went to a competing owners group. He has been looking to own a major league team for some time, and didn't even know Clay until the Supersonics deal began coming together. If you don't know his story, he was formerly president of Dobson in OKC and now is chairman of Syniverse Technologies in Tampa. I suspect the reason just he and Clay were there for the news conference is so that he can emerge as the new owner, and be a known quantity, if events allow. No sense clouding things up by having Aubrey and everyone else attending.

    The one thing everyone (including myself) needs to understand and deal with: there is ZERO chance for an NBA team in OKC during the 2007-2008 season. Clay and Co. have given Seattle 12 months to perform, and the clock doesn't start ticking until closing in October. That would create an impossible timeline for relocation of the Sonics for that season. The league also wants to get the Hornets to NOLA ASAP to get the other wheels in motion.

    That leaves us without hoop for at least a year. Get used to it. By the way, there is also thought that it would be less likely for a relocating Sonics team to get a warm welcome on the heels of a Hornets season. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and hoops fans would be foaming at the mouth for the new franchise if they have to endure a year or two without the NBA.

    On a personal note, I just hope whichever team ends up here gives Hornets season ticket holders first right of refusal on their current seats.
    Well, crap.

  11. #31
    Mmm... ...ribs.

    BigRedJed's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    If you read all of that, thanks for your time. Believe me, it took much longer to type it.
    Well, crap.

  12. #32
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    This is off-topic a bit, but has the NHL shown any interest in OKC since the Hornets success? Also, does the NBA ultimately own their franchises' names, and not the franchises themselves?

  13. #33
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member slickdawg's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by OklahomaTuba
    Who cares about the NBA, its the WNBA that really counts.
    The ladies still play true basketball, as Naismith intended.

  14. #34
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Dio's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    [NOLA troll] But THE LEASE runs through 2012 [/NOLA troll]
    "ESPN and Texas are now one and the same." -Stewart Mandel

  15. #35
    Mmm... ...ribs.

    BigRedJed's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    There was some discussion about this team or that team moving to OKC on the heels of the Hornets initial success here, but I think it was mostly posturing. Teams that wanted better local support used OKC as a threat to their own communities.

    I think the worst thing that could happen to OKC's sports future right now would be to get an NHL franchise. The NBA is more of a marquee endeavor, and it's now a lock for OKC. One of the reasons it works so well here is because there's not a huge competition for the sports entertainment and sponsorship dollar. That changes if the NHL arrives.

    And believe me, I was a huge proponent of getting an NHL team here, when it looked like that was our best shot at a major league franchise.
    Well, crap.

  16. #36
    Mmm... ...ribs.

    BigRedJed's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    George Shinn signed the lease, not the NBA. If he goes bankrupt, it won't matter. By the way, the city of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana have both violated terms of that lease, and some good lawyering could also make an argument that the "act of God" last year fundamentally changed the NOLA market in such a way that it would create an unfair burden to require play there. It wouldn't be out of the question to have the lease voided.

    Even if a lease buyout is necessary, the number that has been thrown around most often is $10 million. When the Sonics just sold for $350 million, and reportedly turned down $425 million, and when the alternatives are to lose millions per year in a horrible market or make millions per year in a thriving market, $10 million is a laughably small amount. The whole discussion of the NOLA lease has been a smokescreen from the start. It's inconsequential.
    Well, crap.

  17. #37

    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Ouch.



    www.sportsline.com/columns/story/9573738

    Oklahoma City Sonics? Hornets? Not gonna happen

    NBA groupie Oklahoma City will get its heart broken by the SuperSonics and Hornets, and the only people who don't know it are those who live in Oklahoma City.

    At the moment Oklahoma City looks good for an NBA franchise by 2008, whether it's the Hornets, who adopted OKC as a second home after Hurricane Katrina leveled New Orleans, or the Sonics, who were purchased last week by an OKC group.

    Well, looks deceive. So do professional franchises and owners and leagues, all of whom use one city against another. In this scenario OKC is the city that's going to get used. With history for bifocals, you can see Oklahoma City's depressing destiny from a long way off. The innocent folks of OKC? They can't see anything. They're too close to the situation, too involved, blinded by lust.

    Charlotte knows that lust. So do Tampa Bay and Washington, D.C.

    Oklahoma City boosters will tell you they're different than jilted cities of the past. That they're close, so close, to getting an NBA team. The Hornets look good, considering New Orleans didn't support the team before the hurricane and can't support it now, and considering OKC fans bought more than 10,000 season tickets when the Hornets hastily moved there this past season. The Sonics look even better, considering their new ownership is led by an OKC businessman, Clay Bennett, who has been trying for years to bring home a major sports franchise.

    One way or another, the NBA is coming to Oklahoma City. That's what OKC boosters believe. Last week Oklahoman columnist Berry Tramel wrote, "OKC suddenly has two quarterhorses in the derby, and its permanent NBA chances never have been better. Hornets or Sonics, one or the other, almost surely will be Ford Center tenants beyond next season."

    Given what you know about the situation in New Orleans and the ownership in Seattle, that sounds reasonable. Almost surely the NBA is coming to Oklahoma City.

    Then again ... when it comes to a city's pursuit of a sports franchise, "almost surely" will almost always get your heart broken.

    Look at Tampa Bay. Yes, Tampa Bay got its Major League Baseball team, but don't forget the torture it endured before winning the expansion Devil Rays.

    When Tampa Bay investors agreed to buy the Minnesota Twins in 1984, commissioner Bowie Kuhn nixed the deal. In 1985, Tampa Bay investors agreed to buy the Oakland A's for $37 million; Oakland backed out of the deal. In 1987, Tampa Bay went after the Twins again, agreeing to buy the team for $65 million. That deal crumbled during further negotiations. In 1988, the Chicago White Sox came so close to moving to Tampa Bay that team employees were polled to see who would move South with the team. Although 60 percent said they'd move, the White Sox stayed put.

    There's more.

    Along the way, St. Petersburg built a $130 million stadium to turn its annual MLB flirtation into marriage, with 22,000 season tickets spoken for. In 1991, baseball rewarded Tampa Bay diligence by giving an expansion franchise to ... Miami. In 1992, St. Pete tried to buy the Seattle Mariners, but the Marlins helped throttle that by citing their need for in-state exclusivity. Later in 1992, San Francisco owner Bob Lurie agreed to sell the Giants to a Tampa Bay group, but NL owners veoted the deal.

    This could be you, Oklahoma City.

    You also could be Washington, D.C., which lost its MLB franchise in 1971 and spent 34 years trying to get one back. In 1973, a D.C. group agreed to buy the San Diego Padres, even choosing Frank Robinson (strange but true) as the team's next manager, but had to give the franchise back after failing to close the deal in three weeks. In 1976, baseball expanded not to the nation's capital, but to Toronto and Seattle. In 1991, with Washington, D.C., again on the list, baseball grew to Miami and Denver.

    In February 1995, Major League Baseball described Washington, D.C., as "a very viable candidate for expansion." Two weeks later MLB awarded teams to Tampa Bay and Phoenix. Later that year, a Washington, D.C., group agreed to buy the Houston Astros for roughly $150 million, only to have commissioner Bud Selig squash the deal.

    If you're NBA groupie Oklahoma City, you're comforted that Tampa did finally get its expansion team, and Washington, D.C., did finally get the Expos. But compare those cities to OKC. No comparison, know what I mean? The sunny Tampa Bay market beats the crap out of dusty OKC. Washington, D.C., is one of the leading cities in the world, while Oklahoma City is one of the leading cities in Oklahoma.

    So what'll get between NBA groupie Oklahoma City and its NBA team? No clue, but it'll be something. The Hornets and Sonics have several years left on current leases, which give their cities time on arena and infrastructure issues. The NBA could decide not to let either franchise leave its internationally known city for OKC, which would be the smallest, least diverse market in the league. Boll weevils could destroy downtown OKC.

    This is not a painless process. Charlotte knows. Charlotte has been linked to almost every small-market franchise in baseball, with Minnesota Gov. Arne Carlson once glumly predicting the Twins would become the Charlotte Twins. Didn't happen. Charlotte got so abused by baseball that earlier this year, when the Marlins announced plans to explore other cities and mentioned Charlotte, Charlotte basically said not to bother.

    Charlotte has read this book, many times, and knows how the story ends. Could someone please send the book to Oklahoma City? Oklahoma City only knows what NBA owners are telling it.

    Which means Oklahoma City doesn't know anything.

  18. #38
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Partial Qualifier's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Wow, I can definitely see the parallells between those two MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL markets and OKC's situation
    that guy's a buffoon for acting like he's got a pulse on the situation

  19. #39
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member JohnnyMack's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    I don't think Stern lets the Sonics out of Seattle. Just can't see it happening. All emotion aside, it's in the NBA's best interest to have a franchise in Seattle moreso than OKC.

  20. #40
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member GrapevineSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Alright OKC NBA hoop fans...

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyMack
    I don't think Stern lets the Sonics out of Seattle. Just can't see it happening. All emotion aside, it's in the NBA's best interest to have a franchise in Seattle moreso than OKC.
    True.

    Of course it was in the NFL's best interests to have an expansion team in Los Angeles for the 2002 season.

    When the city couldn't get it's sh*t together, the NFL basically had no choice but to award a franchise to Bob McNair.

    I could easily see the same situation occurring in Seattle where the NBA does everything it can to ensure a team stays there, but gets left no choice because the city and it's owners can't agree on financing for a new arena.

    And it is silly to compare OKC to the situation Tampa Bay and Charlotte faced with landing Major League Baseball franchises. The NBA is the only game in town in Sacramento, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, Portland, and Memphis.

    Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single baseball market where the MLB is the only game in town.
    Just imagine there's a really obnoxious graphical sig here

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