Ullrich, Basso, and Mancebo

[hurricane'bone]

gone before the Tour even starts.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf200...ory?id=2505072

This is unbelievable....

More tidbits:

Tour organizers had earlier sought to have the entire Astana team -- which also includes favorite Alexandre Vinokourov -- excluded. But the Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled against it on Thursday.

Prudhomme said Friday that the court might have ruled differently had it had access to the latest information from the Spanish probe.

"So many names" of Astana riders appear in the Spanish investigation "that it looks like a system of team doping," he said.

GO Big George!

[jk the sooner fan]

you know i was thinking after reading this......compare Barry Bonds to Lance Armstrong......alot of "where there's smoke there's fire" surrounding both.....but we give Lance a free ride, but not Barry

i'm no fan of Barry Bonds, but its interesting......my guess is that it has more to do with the wide appeal of baseball compared with cycling....and the fact that "doping" in baseball is more easily recognizeable than it would seem to be in cycling

but if the top contenders in the race are doping, then it makes you wonder a little bit about all the controversy surrounding Armstrong.....

[jk the sooner fan]

hmmm, was really hoping for a little more discussion on this.....

[Paperclip]

Ok, I'll play. I think the difference is they've actually investigated Armstrong and he came back clean. All investigations of Bonds lead to him being juiced.

[GrapevineSooner]

Lance is also a more likeable athlete.

Bonds???

Ehhh, not so much.

[jk the sooner fan]

Ok, I'll play. I think the difference is they've actually investigated Armstrong and he came back clean. All investigations of Bonds lead to him being juiced.

oh i dunno, i havent read anything but circumstantial against Bonds.....its one of those "smells and looks like a duck, so it must be a duck"

Armstrong is taking on the French who most Americans despise anyway...but the French who investigated Armstrong sure seem to have enough evidence against a buttload of cyclists in this years race

[Scott D]

oh i dunno, i havent read anything but circumstantial against Bonds.....its one of those "smells and looks like a duck, so it must be a duck"

Armstrong is taking on the French who most Americans despise anyway...but the French who investigated Armstrong sure seem to have enough evidence against a buttload of cyclists in this years race

I find it suspicious that the French seem to be finding all of this evidence dealing with non-French riders. I seriously doubt it's merely a coincidence.

[hurricane'bone]

I think with the amount of teams that had their heads chopped off in the last 48-72 hours, the fact that Discovery made it through should say something. I mean...this is like '98 all over again.


About the free pass Lance is given, I think the big thing for me is, I know how his body changed because of the cancer. He went from being a bulky-built rider to being sleek becuase he lost so much of his muscle mass and weight during chemo, and his body rebuilt itself differently afterwards. If you haven't, I'd suggest reading "It's not about the bike" it is an easy read and lets you into his personal life a little.

[jk the sooner fan]

I think with the amount of teams that had their heads chopped off in the last 48-72 hours, the fact that Discovery made it through should say something. I mean...this is like '98 all over again.


About the free pass Lance is given, I think the big thing for me is, I know how his body changed because of the cancer. He went from being a bulky-built rider to being sleek becuase he lost so much of his muscle mass and weight during chemo, and his body rebuilt itself differently afterwards. If you haven't, I'd suggest reading "It's not about the bike" it is an easy read and lets you into his personal life a little.

Lance isnt accused of using the same body building steroids that Bonds is, he's accused of using (i believe) a drug that increases the oxygen levels in the bloodstream, which gives him more endurance

i think

[Sooner_Bob]

I just can't believe that Ullrich, et al. are being suspended on pretty much a what if . . . I haven't searched any news stories, but is there actually any hard evidence?

A guy I used to work with in Albuquerque is a huge biking fan and I'm sure he's got an opinion on this. I might have to check with him about it.

[hurricane'bone]

Lance isnt accused of using the same body building steroids that Bonds is, he's accused of using (i believe) a drug that increases the oxygen levels in the bloodstream, which gives him more endurance

i think

In addition to a whole lot of other stuff. Lance was a different type of rider before his chemo...and when he came back many people thought that he was using many different performance enhancing drugs to be able to do what he did, included EPO (which is the drug you mentioned)

[Scott D]

I just can't believe that Ullrich, et al. are being suspended on pretty much a what if . . . I haven't searched any news stories, but is there actually any hard evidence?

A guy I used to work with in Albuquerque is a huge biking fan and I'm sure he's got an opinion on this. I might have to check with him about it.

my understanding of it was they basically booted anyone who had ever seen this particular doctor whether it was recently, or within the last few years.

[Sooner_Bob]

my understanding of it was they basically booted anyone who had ever seen this particular doctor whether it was recently, or within the last few years.

So has the doctor admitted to assisting folks dope, gain access to HGH, steroids or what?

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

you know i was thinking after reading this......compare Barry Bonds to Lance Armstrong......alot of "where there's smoke there's fire" surrounding both.....but we give Lance a free ride, but not Barry

i'm no fan of Barry Bonds, but its interesting......my guess is that it has more to do with the wide appeal of baseball compared with cycling....and the fact that "doping" in baseball is more easily recognizeable than it would seem to be in cycling

but if the top contenders in the race are doping, then it makes you wonder a little bit about all the controversy surrounding Armstrong.....

I don't think the situation is similar other than they are both athletes at the top of their sports that were accused of cheating. Armstong has not been given a free ride. He has been tested for drugs literally hundreds of times and has always come back clean. Baseball on the other hand is just starting to put in a drug testing program that is very limited compared to the testing done in cycling. Cyling tests are totally random, year round.

In the case of Ulltich, Basso, Mancebo etc I don't believe any of them failed any tests. (I think the only test Ullrich ever failed was for ecstacy one year and that was in the offseason). The timing of the investigation and being possibly linked to that doctor meant that the tour didn't want anyone possibly connected to start the race. It could turn out to be totally unfair to some if not all the other riders, although at worst if just makes Armstong's accomplishment look all the more amazing.

It is always possible that Armstrong found a way to beat the system but the evidence seems to suggest that not only was he clean but also that some of the allegations against him were outright fabrications. He has won several big lawsuits which means he has gone extra steps to prove in a court of law that he is correct. I buy into the theory that an unforseen benefit of nearly dying from cancer is that his body was better suited to racing. People have every right to be skeptical but I think the dude is clean.

Bonds on the other hand has a mountain of circumstantial evidence that pretty well leaves no doubt that he cheated. If you didn't watch the sunrise but you see the sun in the sky you have circumstantional evidence that there was a sunrise. About the only thing missing a a picture of Conte shoving a needle in his azz. About the only defence Bonds offered was a lawsuit trying to stop publication of the Game of Shadows book, not because the info was false but because of how the information was obtained. I think Bonds gets the brunt of the bad press because of the records he is breaking and the fact that he is a prickly bastard.

I really enjoy the Tour. It is pretty much the only time I ever watch OLN.

[colleyvillesooner]

I really enjoy the Tour. It is pretty much the only time anyone watches OLN.

fixed.

[mrowl]

Lance has come back clean everytime tested.

Bonds is guilty based on testimony to a grand jury. And that his hat size tripled in 2 seasons.