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  1. #21
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Skysooner's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Traber said something the other day about Kelvin being a better coach than Sherri. I just don't see it. Sherri did more with less than Kelvin ever did. Yes, Kelvin's teams are generally solid, but they don't seem to improve that much over a certain threshold once they hit the ceiling during the season. Maybe this is because the players aren't the best in basketball or maybe it is just the generally no-mistake style that Kelvin plays.

    They mentioned the other night that Sherri was likely going to be a hall of fame coach eventually. I liked what I saw out of the team on the outlet passes as mentioned in a previous post. In the B12 Championship game, we throttled Baylor despite their having many more possessions than we had. I'm a big fan of the women's team for sure.
    Metaphors be with you!

  2. #22
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Mjcpr's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by Skysooner
    Traber said something the other day about Kelvin being a better coach than Sherri. I just don't see it. Sherri did more with less than Kelvin ever did.
    I don't know about that. Kelvin definitely has his flaws, but he has always been known as a coach that gets every last drop out of the talent he has (until recently). An overachiever, if you will. The Final Four team's best player is an average NBA player, I would THINK (I'm no expert, obviously) that Paris would be equivelent to an NBA lottery choice.

    I am NOT saying Sherri is not a good coach, she is, I'm just saying I don't think it's as cut dried as you made it out to be that she's a better coach than Kelvin. Judging him on the very recent past, yes......but not on the whole. Not yet anyway.

  3. #23
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Mjcpr's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Also, I apologize for my spek comment to '04.

    That should have read 'Good post, 04'........not 'Goo post...'.

  4. #24
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member NormanPride's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Well, look at Sherri's team this past year compared to this year. What did we gain? A dominant inside presence. And that's been the key for the transformation from first round out to a tough Stanford team to a Sweet 16 favorite as a 2 seed.

    Kelvin has not had that kind of opportunity, really. We would be in a similar position this year if we returned almost everyone and got a great point guard to drive the O.

    Also, I thought we had all agreed it was our bad defense that killed us? The offense may have looked ugly this year, but it put up points like all the others did, right? What was the ppg stat this year?
    Quote Originally Posted by badger
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  5. #25
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Stanley1's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    So 04, how many boards you gonna post this on? SoonerTimes next? The "secret" board?

    Fun.

  6. #26
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 CtheB's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanPride
    Well, look at Sherri's team this past year compared to this year. What did we gain? A dominant inside presence. And that's been the key for the transformation from first round out to a tough Stanford team to a Sweet 16 favorite as a 2 seed.

    Kelvin has not had that kind of opportunity, really. We would be in a similar position this year if we returned almost everyone and got a great point guard to drive the O.

    Also, I thought we had all agreed it was our bad defense that killed us? The offense may have looked ugly this year, but it put up points like all the others did, right? What was the ppg stat this year?
    Norman, I always truly enjoy your insights, even when we do not agree, but I think one thing that is overlooked is the fact that Sheri got that dominant inside presence, and built the team around it. She knows her talent and puts it in positions to win.

    I argue that Kelvin sometimes has a "square peg, round hole" approach to his team. Regardless of the talent, it's expected to fit within his same scheme, i.e. Johnnie Gilbert handling the basketball 25 feet from the goal.

    For that, I think Sheri has an edge on Kelvin in that she shows flexibility (easy there pervs) in her approach. Her scheme compliments her talent, rather than fitting the talent into her scheme.

  7. #27
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Mjcpr's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley1
    So 04, how many boards you gonna post this on? SoonerTimes next? The "secret" board?

    Fun.
    Did you mess up your spek comment too?

  8. #28
    Oh wow! Oh wow! Oh wow!

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    Thumbs up Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by ouflak
    Well since you guys are stroking each other up so much on this thread, can we come to an agreement as a board for just the next week or two?

    Any thread on Women's basketball remains only about women's basketball. I think the ladies have deserved atleast that amount of respect at this point. If anybody absolutely feels the need to post some snide comment about the men's team while reading a thread about the lady's team, they post it here. Agreed?
    Wow that sounds like a good idea!

  9. #29
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Stanley1's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjcpr
    Did you mess up your spek comment too?

  10. #30
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member NormanPride's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by CtheB
    Norman, I always truly enjoy your insights, even when we do not agree, but I think one thing that is overlooked is the fact that Sheri got that dominant inside presence, and built the team around it. She knows her talent and puts it in positions to win.

    I argue that Kelvin sometimes has a "square peg, round hole" approach to his team. Regardless of the talent, it's expected to fit within his same scheme, i.e. Johnnie Gilbert handling the basketball 25 feet from the goal.

    For that, I think Sheri has an edge on Kelvin in that she shows flexibility (easy there pervs) in her approach. Her scheme compliments her talent, rather than fitting the talent into her scheme.
    I can see that, definitely. I'm just saying Sampson hasn't had that amazing player, really. I haven't really paid enough attention to the Ladies as I should, so I can't comment on Coach Coale's history in adjusting... I don't know why, but I never caught the games last year, and I tried to... She has seemed more flexible, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by badger
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  11. #31
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Stanley1's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Not really, she's just had two complete studs that make her look good. Without Dales, and without Paris, Coale has had seasons that more closely resemble Kelvin's.

  12. #32
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member NormanPride's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley1
    Not really, she's just had two complete studs that make her look good. Without Dales, and without Paris, Coale has had seasons that more closely resemble Kelvin's.
    I'd agree a bit with the Dales team, but this team performs well even when Courtney is on the bench. Yeah, CP3 makes us a crapload better, but it's not like she's the only reason this team is a 2 seed...
    Quote Originally Posted by badger
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  13. #33
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 okienole3's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley1
    Not really, she's just had two complete studs that make her look good. Without Dales, and without Paris, Coale has had seasons that more closely resemble Kelvin's.
    Yeah, but Coale got the studs and kept them here. That has to count for something.

  14. #34
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Newbomb Turk's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by Skysooner
    In the B12 Championship game, we throttled Baylor despite their having many more possessions than we had.
    They had more possessions cause we turned the ball over a brazillion times. We throttled them cause they shot like crap.

  15. #35
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 CtheB's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanPride
    I can see that, definitely. I'm just saying Sampson hasn't had that amazing player, really. I haven't really paid enough attention to the Ladies as I should, so I can't comment on Coach Coale's history in adjusting... I don't know why, but I never caught the games last year, and I tried to... She has seemed more flexible, though.
    Norman, an honest question for you, if Kelvin had that amazing player, do you think his scheme would allow that player to take center stage?

    Also, good point on the girls, its fairly obvious she has an unbelievable talent in Paris and some other great players, and the talent is the answer to winning.

    My fear with Kelvin, and this will be argued, is that we really haven't progressed with the talent. He's never had two draftable NBA guys on a team in his career at OU, and this year's team struggled more than prior versions. Two of the players that have left the program were his only two Parade AA in his tenure. I argue how well he coaches ballyhooed players.

    His best teams, the Final Four/Elite Eight teams, had two great players in Price and McGhee, but neither were drafted. Fill it out with Ere, White, and Gilbert/Bookout, all good role players.

    I am one that believes if Kelvin stays, he needs to start recruiting his kind of player, not the kid everyone wants. Sure, we won't have any kids hit the NBA, or maybe only 1 every 12 years, but it seems like he is more successful with red chips than blue chips.

  16. #36
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member NormanPride's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by CtheB
    Norman, an honest question for you, if Kelvin had that amazing player, do you think his scheme would allow that player to take center stage?

    Also, good point on the girls, its fairly obvious she has an unbelievable talent in Paris and some other great players, and the talent is the answer to winning.

    My fear with Kelvin, and this will be argued, is that we really haven't progressed with the talent. He's never had two draftable NBA guys on a team in his career at OU, and this year's team struggled more than prior versions. Two of the players that have left the program were his only two Parade AA in his tenure. I argue how well he coaches ballyhooed players.

    His best teams, the Final Four/Elite Eight teams, had two great players in Price and McGhee, but neither were drafted. Fill it out with Ere, White, and Gilbert/Bookout, all good role players.

    I am one that believes if Kelvin stays, he needs to start recruiting his kind of player, not the kid everyone wants. Sure, we won't have any kids hit the NBA, or maybe only 1 every 12 years, but it seems like he is more successful with red chips than blue chips.
    I'm not sure what Sampson would do with a Chris Paul or a Luol Deng... Though his general workhorse/sharing attitude seems to sway me more towards "he'd squander them". But that's unfair to KS, as he's never had that guy.

    And the rest, I agree. The recruiting worries me, as I don't know why he "went away" from the guys he knew would work. Godbold is a perfect Sampson player, but Taj and Terrell weren't. Someone mentioned Taj at the 5 rather than the 4, and I think that would have been better. I wonder if it will come out that one of the two was a cancer on this team, and that's why it screwed up so much?
    Quote Originally Posted by badger
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  17. #37
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member TopDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Some of you speak as though flexibility is an inherently good thing.

    When John Blake was flexible, he was made a mockery of. Joe Paterno is the anti-flex and it worked out great for him. Why? A wise man once said "It ain't the x's and o's, it's the Jimmys and Joes."

    The talent on Sherri Coale's team is relatively MUCH better than the talent on Kelvin Sampson's team. That wasn't the case last year, though, when our women's team went 17-13 (with Coach Coale's flexible coaching style) and it looked like she had failed to capitalize on her 2002 Final Four run.

  18. #38
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member TopDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by CtheB
    Norman, an honest question for you, if Kelvin had that amazing player, do you think his scheme would allow that player to take center stage?
    Looking at this year, when Michael Neal got hot, our offensive scheme changed quite a bit. Or, at least, he took center stage. Unfortunately, he was the only consistently good shooter we had and teams finally figured out that if they stopped Michael Neal, they could stop us.

  19. #39
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Stanley1's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by CtheB
    Norman, an honest question for you, if Kelvin had that amazing player, do you think his scheme would allow that player to take center stage?

    .
    He's never had a CP, but he's always had one or two guys that were his "go to guys". Najera got the majority of the shots, Hollis, Brewer, Erdmann, etc.

  20. #40
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member NormanPride's Avatar
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    Re: Like Two Ships Passing in the Night........

    Quote Originally Posted by TopDawg
    Some of you speak as though flexibility is an inherently good thing.

    When John Blake was flexible, he was made a mockery of. Joe Paterno is the anti-flex and it worked out great for him. Why? A wise man once said "It ain't the x's and o's, it's the Jimmys and Joes."

    The talent on Sherri Coale's team is relatively MUCH better than the talent on Kelvin Sampson's team. That wasn't the case last year, though, when our women's team went 17-13 (with Coach Coale's flexible coaching style) and it looked like she had failed to capitalize on her 2002 Final Four run.
    Calling Blake flexible is a bit of a misnomer... That's like calling water stretchy.
    Quote Originally Posted by badger
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