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  1. #1
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member picasso's Avatar
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    Krauthammer: Hamas

    Just in case you missed it.

    Election of Hamas: Truth in advertising
    By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER Washington Post Writers Group
    2/6/2006




    WASHINGTON -- Amid much gnashing of teeth, the Hamas victory in the Palestinian elections is being called a disaster. On the contrary. It is deeply clarifying and ultimately cleansing. If the world responds correctly, it will mark a turning point for the better.

    The Palestinian people have spoken. According to their apologists, sure, Hamas wants to destroy Israel, wage permanent war and send suicide bombers into discotheques to drive nails into the skulls of young Israelis, but what the Palestinians were really voting for was efficient garbage collection.

    It is time to stop infantilizing the Palestinians. As Hamas leader Khaled Meshal said in a news conference four days after the election, "The Palestinian people have chosen Hamas with its known stances." By a landslide, the Palestinian people have chosen these known stances: rejectionism, Islamism, terrorism, rank anti-Semitism, and the destruction of Israel in a romance of blood, death and revolution. Garbage collection on Wednesdays.

    Everyone is lamenting the fall of Fatah and the marginalization of its leader Mahmoud Abbas. This is ridiculous. The election exposed what everyone knew and would not admit: Abbas has no constituency. Would it have been better to keep funneling billions of dollars from

    the EU and a gullible U.S. to the thoroughly corrupt administration of a hapless figurehead? Billions that either end up in Swiss bank accounts or subsidize countless gangs of young men carrying guns?

    The current nostalgia for Fatah moderation is absurd. What moderation? Yasser Arafat's 1993 paper recognition of Israel's right to exist was as fraudulent as his famous Oslo side letter renouncing terrorism. He spent the next seven years clandestinely sponsoring terror, then openly launched a four-year terror war, the most vicious in the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

    With this election, we can no longer hide from the truth: After 60 years, the Palestinian people continue to reject the right of a Jewish state to exist side-by-side with them. Fatah -- secular, worldly and wise -- learned to lie to the West and pretend otherwise. Hamas -- less sophisticated, more literal and more bound by religious obligation to expel the Jews -- is simply more honest.

    This election was truth in advertising. Now we know. What to do?

    The world must impress upon the Palestinians that there are consequences for their choices. And so long as they choose rejectionism -- the source of a 60-year conflict the Israelis have long been ready to resolve -- the world will not continue to support and subsidize them.

    And that means cutting off Hamas completely: no recognition, no negotiation, no aid, nothing. And not just assistance to a Hamas government, but all assistance. The Bush administration suggests continuing financial support for "humanitarian" services. This is a serious mistake.

    First, because money is fungible. Every dollar we spend for Palestinian social services is a dollar freed up for a Hamas government to purchase rockets, guns and suicide belts for the "Palestinian army" that Meshal has already declared he intends to build.

    Second, because it sends the Palestinians precisely the wrong message. If they were under a dictatorship that imposed rejectionism upon them, there would be a case for helping a disenfranchised Palestinian people. But they just held the most open and honest exercise of democracy in Palestinian history. The Palestinian people chose. However much they love victimhood, they are not victims here. They are actors. And historical actors have to take responsibility.

    They want blood and death and romance? They will get nothing. They choose peace and coexistence? Then, as President Bush pledged in June 2002, they will get everything: world recognition, financial assistance, their own state with independence and dignity.

    In August 2001, Hamas sent a suicide bomber into a Sbarro pizzeria in Jerusalem. He killed 15 innocent Israelis, mutilating many dozens more. A month later, Hamas student activists at al-Najah University in Nablus celebrated the attack with an exhibit, a mockup of the smashed Sbarro shop strewn with blood and fake body parts -- a severed leg, still dressed in jeans; a human hand dangling from the ceiling. The inscription (with a reference to the Qassam military wing of Hamas) read: "Qassami Pizza is more delicious."

    The correct term for such a mentality is not militance, not extremism, but moral depravity. The world must advise the Palestinian people that if their national will is to embrace Hamas -- its methods and its madness -- then their national will is simply too murderous and, yes, too depraved for the world to countenance, let alone subsidize.

    The essential first lesson of any newborn democracy is that national choices have national consequences. A Hamas-led Palestine, cut off entirely, will be forced to entertain second thoughts.

  2. #2
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Hamas, Nazis, all the same **** to me.

    Elections brought them both in, and war will end them both.

  3. #3
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Widescreen's Avatar
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Krauthammer speaks the truth. We'll see if Bush has a backbone.

  4. #4
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    If we do isolate them (no recognition, no aid) what incentive will they have to behave? Rational people might realize that once they start behaving they'll be rewarded, but not before. However, rational thought is in short supply in Middle East politics. Hamas will use the West's reaction to further inflame anti-Western sentiment. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
    I'm not happy until you're not happy.

  5. #5
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member picasso's Avatar
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    my brother pointed the article out to me. He's lived over there and said it hit the nail onnen ze head.

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Widescreen's Avatar
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt
    If we do isolate them (no recognition, no aid) what incentive will they have to behave? Rational people might realize that once they start behaving they'll be rewarded, but not before. However, rational thought is in short supply in Middle East politics. Hamas will use the West's reaction to further inflame anti-Western sentiment. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
    Well, it's obvious the money-for-behavior thing didn't work so I say we just save our money - or use it to kill more baddies.

  7. #7
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt
    If we do isolate them (no recognition, no aid) what incentive will they have to behave? Rational people might realize that once they start behaving they'll be rewarded, but not before. However, rational thought is in short supply in Middle East politics. Hamas will use the West's reaction to further inflame anti-Western sentiment. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
    This won't end well.

    Not with Iran showing its teeth again IMO. Hope I am wrong.

  8. #8
    Stayatworkdad yermom's Avatar
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    at least we wouldn't be funding their bombs and ****

    let 'em starve or whatever

    of course, Isreal isn't exactly innocent in this either

  9. #9
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Octavian's Avatar
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by OklahomaTuba
    Hamas, Nazis, all the same **** to me.

    Elections brought them both in

    sort of...the nazis never received a majority vote from the masses when they came to power

  10. #10
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Widescreen
    Well, it's obvious the money for behavior thing didn't work so I say we just save our money - or use it to kill more baddies.
    Sounds like as good a plan as any. Why is it that all the warmest parts of the planet are so perpetually ****ed up? Central Africa. Central/South America. The Middle East. India. SE Asia. Maybe the problem is perpetual heat stroke.
    I'm not happy until you're not happy.

  11. #11
    Stayatworkdad yermom's Avatar
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    i would kinda think it's because it's easier to survive with no money

    the people with nothing to live for live longer

  12. #12
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member IronSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt
    If we do isolate them (no recognition, no aid) what incentive will they have to behave? Rational people might realize that once they start behaving they'll be rewarded, but not before. However, rational thought is in short supply in Middle East politics. Hamas will use the West's reaction to further inflame anti-Western sentiment. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
    I think there's a pretty good chance you're right on that. If we cut off everything they'll just get more ****ed off at us for it. But you know what? **** 'em. There is absolutely no reason why we need to give them anything or recognize them for anything. And it's not like we're overflowing with money anyway. Save some cash, do something actually useful with it, and let them do what they want.

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member IronSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt
    Sounds like as good a plan as any. Why is it that all the warmest parts of the planet are so perpetually ****ed up? Central Africa. Central/South America. The Middle East. India. SE Asia. Maybe the problem is perpetual heat stroke.
    Haven't there been studies that show that people lget more easily antagonized and generally more aggressive during heat waves? Seems like I've heard that.

  14. #14
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by yermom
    i would kinda think it's because it's easier to survive with no money
    You're definitely onto something, there. It takes a lot more cooperation to survive in harsher climates, so northern civilizations were created by people who had more incentive to not kill everybody they disagreed with and less free time to do it even if they wanted to.
    I'm not happy until you're not happy.

  15. #15
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by IronSooner
    Haven't there been studies that show that people lget more easily antagonized and generally more aggressive during heat waves? Seems like I've heard that.
    Yes, but they're acclimated to the heat near the Equator.
    I'm not happy until you're not happy.

  16. #16
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by Octavian
    sort of...the nazis never received a majority vote from the masses when they came to power
    Yeah, but there was no majority by any party and the nazis had the largest party.

    A tad different, but the ideology is very much the same.

  17. #17
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 handcrafted's Avatar
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    I'm with Tuba. This won't end well.

    The depraved Muslims (to use CK's accurate terminology) are bloodthirsty and willing to martyr themselves, and their "prophecies" are self-fulfilling. In the end, we'll have to give them what they long for: a violent death while they scream some Arabic crap about allah and mohammed. We're about to enter into an extended (perhaps decades-long) war in the Middle East. The only way we'll avoid it is if countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc. sack up and *help us* defeat the militant types. If they just sit on the sidelines, like they've been doing, we and the rest of the world will be forced to just mow 'em down. No more Palestine. No more Iran. No more Syria if they get in the way.

  18. #18
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Widescreen's Avatar
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    The fact is that the arab 'street' just isn't very smart. They continue to believe whatever their dictators/imams tell them to believe despite decades of repeated failure. When I look at these riots every night, I can hardly believe what I'm seeing. On the other hand, it has yielded some good comedy. I saw a skit the other night with a bunch of people demonstrating with placards that said "Death to Marmaduke!"

  19. #19
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by handcrafted
    I'm with Tuba. This won't end well.

    We're about to enter into an extended (perhaps decades-long) war in the Middle East. The only way we'll avoid it is if countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc. sack up and *help us* defeat the militant types. If they just sit on the sidelines, like they've been doing, we and the rest of the world will be forced to just mow 'em down. No more Palestine. No more Iran. No more Syria if they get in the way.
    I agree.

    Whats scares me is Iran and their involvement in all this.

    Once Iran has a nuke, and starts ******* with the oil supply, all bets are off IMO.

    Either we deal with it now, before they have one (easier), or wait till they have one and can really cause some trouble. I have no doubt they will either.

    I sincerly feel there are some really tough days ahead here. I just hope we still have the strength as a nation that we had in 1914, 1941 and during the cold war. The leftists make me doubt that we do though.

  20. #20
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    Re: Krauthammer: Hamas

    Quote Originally Posted by IronSooner
    I think there's a pretty good chance you're right on that. If we cut off everything they'll just get more ****ed off at us for it. But you know what? **** 'em. There is absolutely no reason why we need to give them anything or recognize them for anything.
    We're really up against a wall. Bush has gone on and on about democracy taking hold in the Middle East, implying that free elections are the best way to gain the West's favor. Okay, fine. But now Palestine is essentially going to be punished for having free elections. What a ****ing mess.

    How long until we get out of oil rehab and can put the Middle East on our ignore list?
    I'm not happy until you're not happy.

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