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  1. #41
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member jkm, the stolen pifwafwi's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by TXBOOMER
    I'll never forget freezing my arse off at the Cotton Bowl against Arkansas watching Hybl stink it up bad. I hope whichever one of OUr QB's that end up starting far surpass Nate's underachieving career at OU. I keep hoping Bomar can live up to the hype (JW with good knee's). He might one day....I think perhaps we are expecting a little much a little soon from him. If PT gives us the best chance to win let's go with it. One thing for sure, Stoops will play who gives us the best chance to win.

    JKM...Nice breakdown except Bush>>>>>Carter. I'll have to wait and see that one.
    a lot of humor here. nate stunk it up in what amounted to the same play calling we would call the following year against okie state, yet you think carter was better than bush? you can count on one hand the number of guys carter blocked without help in his career. most of the time he went one on one there was a DT running free in the backfield...

  2. #42
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member TopDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    The masochist in me decided to read the Orange Bowl article in SI after this year's debacle. In one part, there is an SC player or coach talking about how they told one of their DTs that if he was blocked one-on-one by Carter, he'd sit out the rest of the game. Something like that.

  3. #43
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    A lot of our fans are drunk on the Kool-Aid about how good Carter was.

  4. #44
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Yeah...that Rose Bowl MVP sure did underachieve

  5. #45
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member TopDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino
    A lot of our fans are drunk on the Kool-Aid about how good Carter was.
    For a true freshman, thrown unexpectedly into the mix on an unexperienced O-line in 2001, he was good.

    For a four-year starter, playing O-line with a fairly talented group of other O-linemen in 2004, he wasn't as good as I expected.

  6. #46
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Yep. He didn't improve much in those four years.

  7. #47
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member FaninAma's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
    a lot of humor here. nate stunk it up in what amounted to the same play calling we would call the following year against okie state, yet you think carter was better than bush? you can count on one hand the number of guys carter blocked without help in his career. most of the time he went one on one there was a DT running free in the backfield...
    I think the way USC's DL dominated our OL in the OB started with Vince's position. Is it urban legend or did the USC DL coach actually tell his DTs before the OB that he'd bench their @$$es if he saw even one play where OU's center blocked either one of them?
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  8. #48
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member TopDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma
    I think the way USC's DL dominated our OL in the OB started with Vince's position. Is it urban legend or did the USC DL coach actually tell his DTs before the OB that he'd bench their @$$es if he saw even one play where OU's center blocked either one of them?
    Dang, Fanin...I know we used to have our arguments, but I didn't think I'd still be on your ignore list.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopDawg (one post after the one you quoted)
    The masochist in me decided to read the Orange Bowl article in SI after this year's debacle. In one part, there is an SC player or coach talking about how they told one of their DTs that if he was blocked one-on-one by Carter, he'd sit out the rest of the game. Something like that.

  9. #49
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member FaninAma's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopDawg
    Dang, Fanin...I know we used to have our arguments, but I didn't think I'd still be on your ignore list.
    Sorry man. I got lazy and didn't read the entire thread. Plus, you've never been on my ignore list. I ususally hang on your every word when I read your posts.
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  10. #50
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member TopDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma
    Sorry man. I got lazy and didn't read the entire thread. Plus, you've never been on my ignore list. I ususally hang on your every word when I read your posts.
    Yeah, we had too much fun driving each other crazy in those days to put each other on ignore. It's kinda funny to think that there was a time when I was about as far left as this board went and you were about as far right. *sigh* Memories.

  11. #51
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member jkm, the stolen pifwafwi's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    i also forgot to mention that nate was playing with a broken collarbone in the arkie game. you combine that with long's first game playcalling and well, it tweren't pretty. chuck has come a long way since then getting better every year. if he continues his improvement this year then we'll win some more games than i think we will, but if he regresses...

  12. #52
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Sooner04's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopDawg
    I'll never forget sitting in a comfortable chair during the Sugar Bowl watching Jason White stink it up bad...with better talent surrounding him.
    I'll never forget sitting in a comfortable chair during the Orange Bowl watching Jason White fold like a cheap tent during the last game of his career.

  13. #53
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member TopDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooner04
    I'll never forget sitting in a comfortable chair during the Orange Bowl watching Jason White fold like a cheap tent during the last game of his career.
    ...no matter how hard I try.

  14. #54
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
    i also forgot to mention that nate was playing with a broken collarbone in the arkie game. you combine that with long's first game playcalling and well, it tweren't pretty. chuck has come a long way since then getting better every year. if he continues his improvement this year then we'll win some more games than i think we will, but if he regresses...
    Also, let's not forget that when he was throwing and not on his back in the Cotton Bowl, Hybl wasn't horrible. He didn't rack up the yards, but he set a Cotton Bowl record for completions with 24 and only had eight incompletes.

    What really stunk up that game was our total rushing yards (56), our yards per carry(1.6), our penalties (9-76), our sacks allowed (4-27) and Arkansas' offense.

  15. #55
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopDawg
    The masochist in me decided to read the Orange Bowl article in SI after this year's debacle. In one part, there is an SC player or coach talking about how they told one of their DTs that if he was blocked one-on-one by Carter, he'd sit out the rest of the game. Something like that.
    Man, USC treated us like bitches. And we let them. That still really pisses me off.

  16. #56
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member TopDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Beanbag
    Man, USC treated us like bitches. And we let them. That still really pisses me off.
    From what I've read of the two games, USC went into the Orange Bowl with the same confidence that we went into the 2000 OU/tx game with.

  17. #57
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 OUstudent4life's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    so jkm, in light of the BJW statement, how do you compare Wolfe and Walker?
    The Dude abides.

  18. #58
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    I'de almost bet money that Stoops would like to see Bomar take the reins over Thompson. Thompson has been around for several years and even with the advantages that should pose aparently has yet to pull away from the pack. It's not to say that PT isn't the next star. It just doesn't look that way. Bomar obviously offers more upside. I wouldn't wish a QB controversy on anyone. Not even you guys. I just can't see Stoops actually making the final decision until someone has the chance to be proven under fire.

  19. #59
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member jkm, the stolen pifwafwi's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
    odds and evens (offense)

    QB race

    its very similar to the hybl/white race of 2001. the more experienced QB is playing it safe, not making mistakes while the youngster is going hog wild. talent level favors the youngster but decision making favors the vet. of course, there is one wild card here and that is that the vet is a gamer, not a practice player while the youngster seems to be the opposite. the youngster can sit back and just torch the defense in skelly drills but then presses way to much in the scrimmages. what is the verdict? personally, i think it will be the UCLA game before we have a legit starter. why is that? because i think 2001 still haunts stoops, especially after watching hybl progress the next year. personally, i don't think he cares who wins but he wants each QB to rub off on the other - he wants thompson to be more aggressive and he wants bomar to be more careful with the ball. keeping the competition open into the first couple of games will help that.

    the biggest question marks that i have about thompson are does he have the vision to see the wide open guy and can he be accurate enough to hit the short slant in stride. strange, these were hybl's biggest weaknesses too. in this offense, with AD there is always going to be someone open. the ability to find that guy and allow him to do his thing is the major difference between a 24 ppg offense ans a 36 ppg offense.

    the biggest question marks about bomar are decision making and memory. does he have the ability to be patient for the wide open guy or does he take the first available decent option? the latter is what gives young QBs trouble because they think they have the talent to squeeze the ball in there and instead it gets picked. why is memory in here? because you can't lose confidence in yourself no matter how bad of a day you are having. from reading between the lines, bomar presses during scrimmages and then gets frustrated when something bad happens. just like a shooter in basketball, the last pass, no matter how ugly it was, has to be a completion in your mind. just like white before him, he is struggling with both of these early in his career.

    i think the one advantage that thompson has, and it will be his biggest asset in games, is his ability to fake the ball, whether in the zone read, play-action or in the open field. why? because guys who are deceptive are incredibly hard to stop in the college game. a player can be deceptive in many ways - he can be deceptive athletically like brad smith or barry sanders or he can be deceptive optically like paul seems to be. from what i've seen he is just good at with the zone read, but if he adds a pump fake and perfects his play-action fake he very well could be one of "those guys". for anyone who has played football you know the guy i'm talking about. the guy who is 10 yards past the LOS and pumps his arm like he is going to throw and you join the parachute club. you know he can't throw, you know its a fake, but your body jumps anyway. he does a play action fake and the cameraman gets you dizzy trying to find the ball.

    as far as talent level compared to the 2001 team, i think that thompson and hybl are about the same right now (thompson less passing, but more running) and bomar is a little behind white(white had an extra year for the decision making). however, i think that both QBs should progress faster than white and hybl (who were injury plagued all year) if they can stay healthy.

    OL
    in 2001, we trotted out romero, duncan, carter, skinner, and jerod fields. this year we are trotting out joseph, chaisson, bush, chester, and millington.

    romero > joseph (both are injury prone so watch out)
    duncan = chaisson
    bush >>>>> carter
    chester = skinner
    millington ~ fields (conventional wisdom says he'll be better)
    moses >>>>> tsmith (blocking only)

    are we as good as last year? no. are we better than we were in 2001, yes. i'd compare this OL to 2002 or 2003 which bodes well for a running game.

    WRs

    2001 we had fagan, norman, woolfolk, tsmith with mackey and savage rotating in. this year we are going to have wilson, rankins, kelly, moses, and some other freshman rotating in. wilson is the best receiver out of the bunch and it isn't close. he can run any route, can catch the ball in traffic, and while he doesn't have breakaway speed he can still hurt you after the catch. rankins is a huge question mark for me because while he has some skill he has yet to play a 1/2 of a season without getting hurt. the freshmen are also a big unknown. i just don't think any of us would be able to handle both of them dropping the winning TD pass like texas's highly touted freshmen did.

    running backs

    AD makes everyone better than what they are. every key for the defense starts and ends with AD. the question is whether chuck utilizes this fact to give an advantage to the other offensive players against the defense or whether we try our current brute force attack. if we just line up and try smash-mouth, i'd be shocked if AD lasts throughout the season.

    punt returner

    this position needs to be open until they find someone who has a knack for it. by knack i mean consistent 10+ yards per return.

    overall

    as you can see, our offense is a conundrum. yes, we lost a lot of talent, but on the other hand we have a lot more talent returning than we did in our worst offensive campaign under stoops (2001). of course, the 2001 offense also enjoyed a bunch of defensive points and short fields. although i won't know for sure until after i see some of our newbies in action, i'm thinking ~30 ppg
    wow, talk about missing the boat on thompson, especially with regard to the running game. even worse, there were a bunch of coaches that missed it just as bad as i did. his refusal to run cost us the TCU game, the one game this season i believe we underacheived. otherwise, i think the QB race unfolded about like the 2001 season.

    the OL ended up somewhere between the 2001 and 2002 season. the following evaluations were close, but...

    romero > joseph (both are injury prone so watch out)
    correct
    duncan = chaisson
    i think chaisson didn't have a particularly good year
    bush >>>>> carter
    chester was better, but bush was not
    chester = skinner
    more like bush = skinner. chester ended up a huge surprise.
    millington ~ fields (conventional wisdom says he'll be better)
    look at me, i quit before the season started.
    moses >>>>> tsmith (blocking only)
    correctomundo

    WRs

    rankins ended up exactly like i thought he would. wilson got hurt early but still gutted it out for some key catches. the unknown RS FR ended up being, um, bad. the TR FR ended up looking really good.

    RB

    :shudder:

    ppg

    off by 2.7. frickin TCU

  20. #60
    Sooner Starter DarrellZero's Avatar
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    Re: Very funny, scotty. now beam down my clothes.

    Still not bad prognostication though.

    I was shocked at how bad Chaisson played early in the year. An offensive line is so symbiotic, you just never know how it's going to come together.

    I wonder if Paul looks back on the TCU game and wishes he had played more aggressively. I think we're better off with Rhett now, but man, it was ugly there for a while.

    We need a punt return game in the worst way.
    Last edited by DarrellZero; 12/14/2005 at 01:14 PM.

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