Dirty recruting in the B1G?

[Mazeppa]

Meyer and Harbaugh? Naaa

http://www.foxsports.com/college-foo...uckeyes-012716

[tycat947]

Extremely comical!

"We at the Big Ten don't want to be like the SEC in any way, shape or form," Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema -- who left for an SEC job about 10 months later -- said at the time.

[SoonerMarkVA]

I don't find anything objectionable about flipping, but grey shirting and dropping (after a point) are despicable, along with pulling ships on "non-performers" who are already part of your team. And I don't see the XII doing that, so this whole "everybody's doing it" crap doesn't fly with me.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I don't find anything objectionable about flipping, but grey shirting and dropping (after a point) are despicable, along with pulling ships on "non-performers" who are already part of your team. And I don't see the XII doing that, so this whole "everybody's doing it" crap doesn't fly with me.

Hmmm. Why do you feel that way? Don't recruits switched their commitments? Do player not sometimes leave a school, transfer after a year or two? Why is it only "despicable" when a coach changes his mind about a kid and not the other way around?

The school is making a financial investment with these kids in the form of their scholarships, grants-in-aid, stipends, etc. So, if a coach sees that a kid is wasting the school's time and money, or is likely to do so, the coach has the responsibility to tell the kid.

If you ask me, the coach does the right thing by going ahead and telling the kid. But, don't pretend this is a one way street.

[SoonerMarkVA]

Hmmm. Why do you feel that way? Don't recruits switched their commitments? Do player not sometimes leave a school, transfer after a year or two? Why is it only "despicable" when a coach changes his mind about a kid and not the other way around?

The school is making a financial investment with these kids in the form of their scholarships, grants-in-aid, stipends, etc. So, if a coach sees that a kid is wasting the school's time and money, or is likely to do so, the coach has the responsibility to tell the kid.

If you ask me, the coach does the right thing by going ahead and telling the kid. But, don't pretend this is a one way street.

Because I hold the school, which holds the bulk of the power, to a higher standard. Also, it's the kids with the fewest options who are hurt the most by the practice.

Pulling an offer from a recruit early enough in the process is acceptable to me, especially as a result of a coaching change. Waiting until January to do so is not. Greyshirting definitely is not, nor is because a kid didn't perform satisfactorily during a given year that his scholarship isn't renewed for next year, or if they have a significant injury that will keep them from performing at a certain level. That doesn't include kids who dog it, or don't put in academic work, or get into trouble. Many players just don't pan out to be as good as you thought they'd be, but they still do everything right.

When things are stacked enough against the players that situations like Mayfield's are upheld by the rules, then there is an unacceptable imbalance of power.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Because I hold the school, which holds the bulk of the power, to a higher standard. Also, it's the kids with the fewest options who are hurt the most by the practice.

Pulling an offer from a recruit early enough in the process is acceptable to me, especially as a result of a coaching change. Waiting until January to do so is not. Greyshirting definitely is not, nor is because a kid didn't perform satisfactorily during a given year that his scholarship isn't renewed for next year, or if they have a significant injury that will keep them from performing at a certain level. That doesn't include kids who dog it, or don't put in academic work, or get into trouble. Many players just don't pan out to be as good as you thought they'd be, but they still do everything right.

When things are stacked enough against the players that situations like Mayfield's are upheld by the rules, then there is an unacceptable imbalance of power.

It's not an imbalance of power. No one forces a kid to go to one school or another. They make a choice, and can choose to transfer to another school.

And, especially in this case: a kid with an offer to Michigan. You'd be hard pressed to tell me this is the only school that kid has a scholarship offer from. In fact, he has three other FBS offers: Missouri (where he's being recruited by Josh Heupel and Joe Jon Finley), Rutgers, and Virginia: http://sports.yahoo.com/smu/football...Swenson-145265

He made a commitment when Brady Hoke was the coach, anyway, not Harbaugh. He's fine whether Michigan wants him or not.

As far as other recuits, they are accepted to the schools with a lower set of academic standards; so, the bar has already been lowered for them to even get in.

It's a two-way street: sometimes a coach lets a kid go, sometimes a kid lets a coach/school go. No sob story for this kid, he committed to a coach who is no longer there, and still has multiple FBS offers to choose. He's fine.

[Tear Down This Wall]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...inal-condition

[KantoSooner]

I suspect that a judge would err on the side of favoring the student athlete on the grounds that the university has vastly greater bargaining power and thus it was never an 'even' negotiation to start with.
But that, like a lot of our legal logic, is derived from the early to mid twentieth century when much more socialist/communitarian thinking held sway.
I doubt these kids are going to miss out on a free education because Harbaugh gives them the bum's rush.

[SoonerMarkVA]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...inal-condition

Before they sign is a greyer area. My injury assertion was for a player already on scholarship.

That said, even in that area, we have made the other choice before:

The Sooners have honored scholarships for recruits with career-ending injuries before. After this year's National Signing Day, it was revealed that a back injury would force tight end signee Laith Harlow to give up football. Harlow was given a medical scholarship and he is now a freshman at OU.

Also, you say kids can transfer, which is true, but they lose at least a year unless they are willing to take their talent down a few notches. Again, no such penalties exist for coaches or Universities. That also doesn't account for the possibility that a school who would have taken a player now doesn't have room. Yes, you can say caveat emptor but most of that risk falls onto the player, and even the ones who leave when the school doesn't want them to have skin in the game when they lose a year of eligibility, or the school can stick it to the player just for grins like Kliffy did to Mayfield.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Before they sign is a greyer area. My injury assertion was for a player already on scholarship.

That said, even in that area, we have made the other choice before:


Also, you say kids can transfer, which is true, but they lose at least a year unless they are willing to take their talent down a few notches. Again, no such penalties exist for coaches or Universities. That also doesn't account for the possibility that a school who would have taken a player now doesn't have room. Yes, you can say caveat emptor but most of that risk falls onto the player, and even the ones who leave when the school doesn't want them to have skin in the game when they lose a year of eligibility, or the school can stick it to the player just for grins like Kliffy did to Mayfield.

You do realize that, I hope, that no one owes these kids anything, right?

The kid gives the college his word - his "commitment" - and maybe he keeps it, maybe he doesn't. It doesn't cost him anything.

It costs the school something because it is the entity footing the bill for the coaches' agreements with these kids. The coach, then, is responsible for only bringing in kids - and, keeping kids on board - that fit in the program.

This kid got caught up in a coaching change. It's that simple. He has other FBS offers. There is nothing to see here.

[badger]

Let's face it; the football bubble is about to burst. Pick any combination of the following and football is done in 50 years:
- It's not profitable for most schools
- It costs a lot of money to pay coaches in college
- It costs a lot of money to pay players and coaches in the NFL
- It costs a lot of money for football gear at all levels
- Tickets cost a lot of money in college and NFL
- Stadiums and other facilities cost a lot of money at all levels
- Concussions
- Injuries always seem the worst in football compared to other sports
- Off-field issues always seem the worst in football compared to other sports
- Boosters seem more ruthless in football compared to other sports
- The adults (parents, schools, coaches, boosters, NFL owners and leadership, etc etc)always seem more ruthless in football compared to other sports

If anything, "kids" need to know early-on that college football is a business if you are going D-1 -- the recruiting process and everything else is going to be adult-time. The "fun" football ended in elementary school.

[SoonerMarkVA]

It's not an imbalance of power. No one forces a kid to go to one school or another. They make a choice, and can choose to transfer to another school.

And, especially in this case: a kid with an offer to Michigan. You'd be hard pressed to tell me this is the only school that kid has a scholarship offer from. In fact, he has three other FBS offers: Missouri (where he's being recruited by Josh Heupel and Joe Jon Finley), Rutgers, and Virginia: http://sports.yahoo.com/smu/football...Swenson-145265

He made a commitment when Brady Hoke was the coach, anyway, not Harbaugh. He's fine whether Michigan wants him or not.

As far as other recuits, they are accepted to the schools with a lower set of academic standards; so, the bar has already been lowered for them to even get in.

It's a two-way street: sometimes a coach lets a kid go, sometimes a kid lets a coach/school go. No sob story for this kid, he committed to a coach who is no longer there, and still has multiple FBS offers to choose. He's fine.

Have to say, I'm happy the way it turned out. All's well that ends well in this case, especially for OU. Hope the kid has a great career here and beyond and Harbaugh can suck it.

I noticed one of Harbaugh's 4-star OTs decommitted and is going to Stanford. Now he can double suck it.

[Sabanball]

I don't find anything objectionable about flipping, but grey shirting and dropping (after a point) are despicable, along with pulling ships on "non-performers" who are already part of your team. And I don't see the XII doing that, so this whole "everybody's doing it" crap doesn't fly with me.

So then, how do you feel about players that make verbal committments, then change their mind and 'jump ship' to another school at the last minute? I don't see or hear any feigned outrage over that common practice.

[KantoSooner]

Honestly, Sabanball? I getted pissed. But I have to realize that you're talking an 18 year old kid, often of a relatively deprived background, negotiating with what are, in essence. 1/4 billion dollar per year businesses. Not Fortune 50's, but very damn big with very scary resources. And the schools play this game yearly. The recruit gets one shot and no practice.
So, annoying as it is to me, I tend to push the risk onto the universities, swallow hard and live with the consequences.
OU would do just fine without football, though I'd miss it. I trust Bama would as well.

[KantoSooner]

"I getted" jeez, not enough coffee.

I get.

[Sabanball]

I will be the first to admit that recruiting can be a dirty business. It's the nature of the beast. When coaches are being paid over $4 million/yr, they have to justify it and produce results. You have to get players to do that. It is what it is.

[KantoSooner]

True. But I feel little pity for said coaches; and if the rule tilt a bit towards the players in one small part of the game, so be it. Make the coaches sweat a little. Keeps 'em young.