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  1. #1
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Soonerjeepman's Avatar
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    gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Ok,
    Liberals/Dems are always spouting off about we need -

    more gun laws due to innocent folks being killed...(even though we have enough laws)

    to repeal death penalty if ONE innocent person is put to death...(the best judicial system in the country)

    but now they are willing to let thousands of refugees in, bringing in the chance that terrorist willing to kill Americans (FBI has said our process will not work)

    just interesting...

    michael moore offering his house to refugees...cool
    How do you know if you get there, if you don't know where you are going?..oh and I had 1,713 post on the "other board"..I hate being a rookie again!

  2. #2
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 dwarthog's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    I think the liberal elites that are for these refugees should open their arms wide and embrace them in their neighborhoods as well.

    Hamptons, Hollywood, etc. Setup some low cost housing etc. so these refugees can get to know their new liege's.

  3. #3
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    you guys cling to a "well regulated militia" because it is in the constitution. But, you will suspend your constitutional rights out of fear.

    Youre a little right about the cognitive dissonançe of the left. If the cost of executions were cheaper I might be on board. I just wish we could do more background checks for weapons. Hell, the NRA is against limiting firearm purchases to those on the terrorist watch list.

  4. #4
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post
    you guys cling to a "well regulated militia" because it is in the constitution. But, you will suspend your constitutional rights out of fear.

    Youre a little right about the cognitive dissonançe of the left. If the cost of executions were cheaper I might be on board. I just wish we could do more background checks for weapons. Hell, the NRA is against limiting firearm purchases to those on the terrorist watch list.
    I've argued the meaning 'well regulated militia' until I'm blue in the face. That term 100% does not mean what you think it means and every single statement by our Founding Fathers is contrary to your interpretation as well as plain old common sense. Because, honestly, the first thing Madison thought when crafting the Bill of Rights was "All of these amendments limit the power and scope of government over the individual, but I'm going to make sure this second one stops people from owning guns without being in a government approved militia even though we just fought and won a Revolution based entirely upon the fact individuals had their own firearms." Yep, seems legit to me.

  5. #5
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    I've argued the meaning 'well regulated militia' until I'm blue in the face. That term 100% does not mean what you think it means and every single statement by our Founding Fathers is contrary to your interpretation as well as plain old common sense. Because, honestly, the first thing Madison thought when crafting the Bill of Rights was "All of these amendments limit the power and scope of government over the individual, but I'm going to make sure this second one stops people from owning guns without being in a government approved militia even though we just fought and won a Revolution based entirely upon the fact individuals had their own firearms." Yep, seems legit to me.
    I see your point. I think there was also intimation that we were the militia. We are very unregulated. The state militias took on that role in my mind.

  6. #6
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    question sic'em. Why is the term well-regulated in there if it has no meaning? Your interpretation ignores those words.

  7. #7
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Turd_Ferguson's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post
    question sic'em. Why is the term well-regulated in there if it has no meaning? Your interpretation ignores those words.
    question db. Why are you such a liberal db? Your douchiness has gotten old.

    OleVet Posse Instigator

  8. #8
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by Turd_Ferguson View Post
    question db. Why are you such a liberal db? Your douchiness has gotten old.
    Why don't you put me on ignore? It would be healthier for you.

  9. #9
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post
    question sic'em. Why is the term well-regulated in there if it has no meaning? Your interpretation ignores those words.
    The term "well regulated" is given a contemporary modern interpretation when it's anything but. The term was used to describe something done "properly" as in "well and proper." In the proper historical context, one might say "Kim Kardashian needs to regulate herself." In other words, she needs properly maintain her actions and conduct. This was the essence of that term.

    The expectation by the Founding Fathers was that individuals would, unquestionably, own their own firearms and organize themselves into local community militia groups. The point of the "well regulated" part is to ensure the importance of proper training and maintaining these community militias. In order to achieve that end, individuals had to own their own firearms. The Founding Fathers had absolutely no expectation (and would abhor the suggestion) that the "militia" would constitute official government regulated national guard units. They wouldn't necessarily oppose their existence; they would oppose describing them as the 'militias' found within the 2nd Amendment.

    There are a few obvious reasons why this is the case. 1)The Bill of Rights were entirely laid out to protect individual liberty from government encroachment. The idea that the second amendment on that list would be used to regulate gun ownership by the government would have negated the entire purpose of the amendment for reason #2. 2)The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to guard against the tyranny of the government. Gun ownership was considered necessary in order for the citizen, either as an individual or part of a self-organized militia, to ensure his (or now her) own liberty by protecting themselves and their communities from a tyrannical government. The suggestion that Madison intended for the government to regulate the very means by which the individual protected himself from tyranny is so absurd that it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of Madison, the Constitution, and that entire generation.

    I understand the liberal/progressive argument for wanting to amend the 2nd Amendment. I get that. I vehemently disagree, but I understand. I also respect the argument (although, again, I vehemently disagree) that the 2nd Amendment is "out of date." What I don't respect is this historically absurd argument that the 2nd Amendment's language was crafted in such a way as to ensure the government's right to regulate the private ownership of firearms. That's simply bat**** crazy.

  10. #10
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    The term "well regulated" is given a contemporary modern interpretation when it's anything but. The term was used to describe something done "properly" as in "well and proper." In the proper historical context, one might say "Kim Kardashian needs to regulate herself." In other words, she needs properly maintain her actions and conduct. This was the essence of that term.

    The expectation by the Founding Fathers was that individuals would, unquestionably, own their own firearms and organize themselves into local community militia groups. The point of the "well regulated" part is to ensure the importance of proper training and maintaining these community militias. In order to achieve that end, individuals had to own their own firearms. The Founding Fathers had absolutely no expectation (and would abhor the suggestion) that the "militia" would constitute official government regulated national guard units. They wouldn't necessarily oppose their existence; they would oppose describing them as the 'militias' found within the 2nd Amendment.

    There are a few obvious reasons why this is the case. 1)The Bill of Rights were entirely laid out to protect individual liberty from government encroachment. The idea that the second amendment on that list would be used to regulate gun ownership by the government would have negated the entire purpose of the amendment for reason #2. 2)The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to guard against the tyranny of the government. Gun ownership was considered necessary in order for the citizen, either as an individual or part of a self-organized militia, to ensure his (or now her) own liberty by protecting themselves and their communities from a tyrannical government. The suggestion that Madison intended for the government to regulate the very means by which the individual protected himself from tyranny is so absurd that it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of Madison, the Constitution, and that entire generation.

    I understand the liberal/progressive argument for wanting to amend the 2nd Amendment. I get that. I vehemently disagree, but I understand. I also respect the argument (although, again, I vehemently disagree) that the 2nd Amendment is "out of date." What I don't respect is this historically absurd argument that the 2nd Amendment's language was crafted in such a way as to ensure the government's right to regulate the private ownership of firearms. That's simply bat**** crazy.
    Thanks for the well put response. You're probably right. The issue is that when someone like me says "it would be nice to be able to screen some of these mentally challenged folks from getting access to firearms" or "parents who don't secure their weapons should be held accountable" or "if John Doe sells a gun to someone who he has no idea if he's eligible to buy a gun or not, we might want to think about how to manage that" we're treated with the "from my cold dead hand" mantra as if we're proposing immediate gun registration/confiscation. These are statements that are not "liberal" or even anti gun. I honestly know of no one that I think shouldn't have the weapons that they have. I live in Cherokee County and there are plenty of guns around here. I grew up in a household with 4 loaded guns hidden an known areas and I never fvcked with them.

    http://www.people-press.org/2015/08/...-on-gun-sales/

    85% of people want expanded background checks. 79% Republicans. Before some arsehole pipes up about liberal polls realize that you can't have a 29% +/-.

  11. #11
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Ton Loc's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Any of you morons out there actually understand the refugee process or do you just think we open the doors and let them walk right in?

    Oh - you don't understand but are willing to make decisions based on your ignorance in the subject. Good to see nothing has changed around here.
    It takes one to know one, and I know you don't know a damn thing.

  12. #12
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ton Loc View Post
    Any of you morons out there actually understand the refugee process or do you just think we open the doors and let them walk right in?

    Oh - you don't understand but are willing to make decisions based on your ignorance in the subject. Good to see nothing has changed around here.
    By definition a Moron cant really understand much can they? so are you calling yourself a moron by asking that question?
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  13. #13
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Ton Loc's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by olevetonahill View Post
    By definition a Moron cant really understand much can they? so are you calling yourself a moron by asking that question?
    I thought the very fact that any of us post in here and argue uselessly against things we will never change makes us all morons.
    It takes one to know one, and I know you don't know a damn thing.

  14. #14
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 dwarthog's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ton Loc View Post
    Any of you morons out there actually understand the refugee process or do you just think we open the doors and let them walk right in?

    Oh - you don't understand but are willing to make decisions based on your ignorance in the subject. Good to see nothing has changed around here.
    I think that whatever the process is, that this admin screws it up and lets in terrorists.

    Or alternatively you could say that there really is no way to successfully vet 100% of the refugees from "those" country you let in.

    You decide since you are smart.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qae...ry?id=20931131

  15. #15
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ton Loc View Post
    I thought the very fact that any of us post in here and argue uselessly against things we will never change makes us all morons.
    See, and I thought that disagreeing agreeably could lead to a broader mind. Sic'em has brought some enlightenment to me on various issues. Others have as well but if I can't name them all I might as well not name any as I'd hate to offend someone like Turd by leaving them out. I don't always agree but I can see the world from their points of view. It adds perspective and context. Typically, that takes place when the terms "moron, "douchbag", "fvckstick", etc. are not utilized. That said, it takes place somewhere between the timeframe of a full moon and a lunar eclipse.

  16. #16
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ton Loc View Post
    I thought the very fact that any of us post in here and argue uselessly against things we will never change makes us all morons.
    Well done,
    Cept I dont much argue I know we cant change much if anything, I usually just poke em with a stick and keep the fires burning LOL
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  17. #17
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by dwarthog View Post
    I think that whatever the process is, that this admin screws it up and lets in terrorists.

    Or alternatively you could say that there really is no way to successfully vet 100% of the refugees from "those" country you let in.

    You decide since you are smart.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qae...ry?id=20931131
    From your link: "One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said."

    Sucks to be that poor sucker. Hope he got the 72 virgins treatment.

  18. #18
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by olevetonahill View Post
    Well done,
    Cept I dont much argue I know we cant change much if anything, I usually just poke em with a stick and keep the fires burning LOL
    And if I do anything remotely similar to that you give me shat about it. Go figure.

  19. #19
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post
    And if I do anything remotely similar to that you give me shat about it. Go figure.
    Thats my JOB, Pay Tention ya Moran LOL
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  20. #20
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Ton Loc's Avatar
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    Re: gun laws, death penalty and refugees...

    Quote Originally Posted by dwarthog View Post
    I think that whatever the process is, that this admin screws it up and lets in terrorists.

    Or alternatively you could say that there really is no way to successfully vet 100% of the refugees from "those" country you let in.

    You decide since you are smart.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qae...ry?id=20931131
    I'm smart enough to read and not blindly trust some talking head or politician I saw on the evening news or heard on my talk radio station.

    It was 2 not dozens.

    Since 2001 - 3 refugees out of almost 1 million have been charged with plotting anything. I believe that is from 2015 I believe the statistic I read said more cows have killed people than refugees since then. I'd say that's pretty good vetting. The current refugee process takes around 18 months. You can get a visa much easier and in way less time.

    Also - just for fun. Governors and State reps have no power deciding whether or not their state can accept refugees. Nor can they stop refugees from crossing state lines and settling in their state.
    It takes one to know one, and I know you don't know a damn thing.

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