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  1. #21
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREX View Post
    ---Who told you that?
    My wife who's been teaching since circa 1987. She was the state teacher of the year in her field twice and fielded offers from some of the private schools. She did not receive an offer that was for more than she was making at the time. I'm sure that some pay more but most pay less and don't waste resources with silly things like benefits. There are some awesome private schools but there are some crappy ones as well.

  2. #22
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    No. No more money for liberal indoctrination...
    Everything progressives do is aimed at weakening democracy, capitalism and the social and cultural institutions that support those things...... They are about subjugating people and being a ruling class.

  3. #23
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Turd_Ferguson's Avatar
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHumanAlphabet View Post
    No. No more money for liberal indoctrination...
    Spek.

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  4. #24
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    The free market would step in and fill the void left by public education. Private education would become competitive and tuition rates would be set at whatever the market values the education at. When you eliminate all of the tax revenue that is seized and pumped into a failed institution, parents would have the money they need for tuition.
    I'm framing this and putting it in my "In case of being tempted by Libertarianism, break glass" box.

    When making statements like this, "Free Market" and any pronouns referring thereto should be capitalized.

    Where has this ever worked in humanity's post-tribal history? Failing that, do you have any analysis that supports any of your three statements, other than your belief that "free markets" are the best mechanism for meeting every common need (other than police, defense, and courts, of course <rolleyes>)?

    OK your second statement is probably accurate, but that's not a good thing because at a market price, far too many parents would be priced out of that market. Those parents' children would be left even further behind; each generation would get worse, and before long you have virtual if not actual peonage. (As to the incoming comments from the rest of you, yes the current system is trending that way too. However, it makes no sense to jump to something worse just because your current system has problems.)
    Ukraine: Not Our Fight.

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  5. #25
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    In answer to OP Question
    HELL NO.
    http://www.soonerfans.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=38933&dateline=130040  9398

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  6. #26

    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    There have been major decisions made regarding education at both the college and University level as well as in the Primary and Secondary levels that have played a big role in the funding our schools receive today. They are;
    1) School Superintendents. Oklahoma has I believe 500 plus school superintendents. Of course I would assume that each has a staff. This number far exceeds most states. For a population of 3.5 million, this is a waste of tax payer money. Add in Administration costs. Check out Norman and see all of the buildings around town devoted to offices for primary/secondary school administrators. I would love to know the percentage of the total annual school budget administration cost comprise. What do these people do all day?

    2) With close to 40 colleges, Universities and Jr Colleges all funded in whole or in part by Oklahoma Taxpayers, this equates into quantity education instead of quality education. Iowa has by comparison 19 public and colleges and Universities for a state only about half a million less citizens. No surprise that both the University of Iowa and Iowa State University are both ranked higher academically than both OU and osu.
    These colleges in outposts like Alva, or Tishomingo or Goodwell were established when Oklahoma had an agrarian economy at the turn of the Century when it was important that Jed could help with the farm part of the day and then go to College the rest of the day.
    With way too many colleges and Universities on the state payroll, and no politician that would ever propose eliminating some of the schools, we end up not funding our Universities like we should. It would destroy some of these communities, so nothing will ever be done.
    So we have what we have by poor decisions made over 100 years ago. How can it be fixed?
    "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"

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  7. #27
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    I have never and will never vote for a tax increase/school bond, ever. Furthermore, I support completely abolishing public education and fully privatizing.
    I never approve of any tax increases. The government is MONSTROUSLY way too big as it already is .
    Put a lid on it! Kiss it goodbye. We gave it away, and apparently thought it made sense to do so.

  8. #28
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHumanAlphabet View Post
    No. No more money for liberal indoctrination...
    icing on the "No way" cake.
    Put a lid on it! Kiss it goodbye. We gave it away, and apparently thought it made sense to do so.

  9. #29

    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    I recall Proposition 1017 back in 1990 which was a Billion dollar funding plan for Education. It was going to solve all of our funding concerns for the foreseeable future.

    An evaluation was done ten years later and the average test scores......had dropped.
    "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"

    -----Winston Churchill

  10. #30
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post
    My wife who's been teaching since circa 1987. She was the state teacher of the year in her field twice and fielded offers from some of the private schools. She did not receive an offer that was for more than she was making at the time. I'm sure that some pay more but most pay less and don't waste resources with silly things like benefits. There are some awesome private schools but there are some crappy ones as well.
    ----The teachers at my kids school get paid more than public teachers and have excellent benefits----Try and expand your horizons a bit

  11. #31
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Thank you all for your feedback

    Already, there is a lot of money that state legislators are not allowed to touch, but there is a growing concern that with the oil downturn that every state agency is facing huge budget cuts in the coming years.

    In recent years, the answer our state legislature has had is to cut expenses when revenue falls. It may be getting to the point that it is time to look for ways to increase revenue instead of just cut expenses.

    So... alternate question for the thread: Which STATEWIDE taxes would you vote in favor of to increase education funding, either K-12/higher ed or both?

    1- Sales tax
    2- Property tax
    3- Income tax

    Personally, I liked our local Tulsa County proposition earlier this year that passed that had everything outlined and you knew the local impact, because that's where we live.

    I agree that the government has been very poor stewards of taxpayer money at all levels lately, but given the strings attached to certain proposals, this would have more oversight than just writing the government a blank check.

    There is, of course, the concern that the legislature will just cut whatever new revenue this tax is projected to generate if it passes...

  12. #32
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREX View Post
    ----The teachers at my kids school get paid more than public teachers and have excellent benefits----Try and expand your horizons a bit
    My kids go to a very highly thought of school and the real estate costs more because of it. I'm good with that. My horizons are expanded as much as they need to be. I'd put private school on an 80/20 type rule. 20% of it is great and superior to that provided in public schools. 80% is, at best, comparable to public with a lot being below that. Maybe I'm wrong but I have real life experiences that have established the perception. Some teachers don't need the benefits and are happy to work in a private environment where they don't have to mess with the unwashed masses that can come with the public schools or the bureaucracy.

    If I lived in a city like Tulsa or OKC I might want to live in an area that would see me putting my kids in private schools. I don't.

  13. #33
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post
    My kids go to a very highly thought of school and the real estate costs more because of it. I'm good with that. My horizons are expanded as much as they need to be. I'd put private school on an 80/20 type rule. 20% of it is great and superior to that provided in public schools. 80% is, at best, comparable to public with a lot being below that. Maybe I'm wrong but I have real life experiences that have established the perception. Some teachers don't need the benefits and are happy to work in a private environment where they don't have to mess with the unwashed masses that can come with the public schools or the bureaucracy.

    If I lived in a city like Tulsa or OKC I might want to live in an area that would see me putting my kids in private schools. I don't.
    ---Go look at test scores that compare Private and Public schools ----You are clueless----80/20? you making this up as you go?
    Last edited by REDREX; 10/22/2015 at 05:13 PM.

  14. #34
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Turd_Ferguson's Avatar
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREX View Post
    80/20? you making this up as you go?
    Isn't that what she normally does?

    OleVet Posse Instigator

  15. #35
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Soonerjeepman's Avatar
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    $2 an hour, "baby sitting", *7 hours * 22 kids* 185 days. $57K I'll take that to just baby sit. Thanks.
    How do you know if you get there, if you don't know where you are going?..oh and I had 1,713 post on the "other board"..I hate being a rookie again!

  16. #36
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by badger View Post
    OU president David Boren is proposing it and the petition drive has started.

    Linky

    Personally, I am torn.

    Pros:
    - More money for education
    - Education needs more money
    - Oil revenue declines means state will have huge shortfalls in the coming years
    - Education funds still haven't made it back to pre-recession levels
    - Allowing voters to decide on taxing themselves, rather than legislators

    Cons:
    - Like the lottery, may be used as an excuse for the legislature to not fund education fully on its own
    - The sales taxes in this state are already high
    - Sales taxes are regressive (i.e. hit the poorest the hardest)
    - The state should be funding education by itself already
    - The state legislators chose to cut income taxes, so now we're going to raise sales taxes at the same time?!

    Help me out, SF.com. What side should I take?
    Of course the powers that be, and David Boren is very much one of them, want to cut taxes on the higher end of the scale (i.e., income tax), and raise them on the rest of us (sales tax). How very redistributive of him (upward, that is).
    Ukraine: Not Our Fight.

    More epicycles!

  17. #37
    Stayatworkdad yermom's Avatar
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    i'm just glad we had so much extra money for the state that we were able to lower taxes and still be able to fund everything

  18. #38
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREX View Post
    ---Go look at test scores that compare Private and Public schools ----You are clueless----80/20? you making this up as you go?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

    80/20 is a common ratio. If you'll notice I said it was my perception. I'm not arrogant enough to claim that I'm right. Maybe I am. What I do know is that my wife was the state teacher of the year in a field that the private schools eat up like Perine eats up cornerbacks and the offers that she received were for less than she was making at a rural 3A school. State teacher salaries have increased some since then and I'm sure private schools have as well.

  19. #39
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    https://k12.niche.com/rankings/priva...ll/s/oklahoma/

    29 schools. 20% would be 6 of them. I'd go as far as to say I have a positive perception of the top 8 of these. I'm not sure of #9. What I KNOW is that #15 is far below what is provided locally. So, I think it would be fair to say that MY PERCEPTION is that the top 8 are superior to general public schools. I'm pretty sure that MSM and Metro are comparable to the local high quality public schools but I could be wrong. I tried to find some comparisons but couldn't. Those comparisons will be similar to taking the whole football team's 40 time and comparing it to the 40 times of the soccer team. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

    There are actually 229 private schools in Oklahoma. Holland Hall, Cassidy, etc. are great. They also get kids who's parents are willing to spend significant $ to educate them. There's a strong correlation between that social group and success in testing and school in general. It's like your argument is that the Air Raid/Spread is superior to all offenses. Some teams run it great. Kansas runs the Air Raid/Spread. There are more college teams out there running the spread/Air Raid/Pistol and not doing it well than are doing it well. We just don't pay much attention to them.

    Muskogee high school is a rough place with some kids who give 0 F's and parents who give less. But, there are some really good kids that come out of that school and it is MUCH superior to the church school down the road that is #15. Plus, your kid goes to college and already knows what pepper spray smells like and has lived some life.

  20. #40
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Would you support a penny sales tax to support education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

    80/20 is a common ratio. If you'll notice I said it was my perception. I'm not arrogant enough to claim that I'm right. Maybe I am. What I do know is that my wife was the state teacher of the year in a field that the private schools eat up like Perine eats up cornerbacks and the offers that she received were for less than she was making at a rural 3A school. State teacher salaries have increased some since then and I'm sure private schools have as well.
    ----This is a stupid argument even for you----Private schools do a much better job than Public school----Why do you think the Public education system in this country is so bad?
    Last edited by REDREX; 10/23/2015 at 12:46 PM.

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