Unexpected receiver addition....

[KantoSooner]

Tear, you really take the cake. The young man wants to come walk on. I'm not expecting anyone to turn cartwheels, but, what the hell? Maybe he got better in the past several years. It happens.
We've had enough All World guys who can't manage to perform or stay on campus. And thats not just us: a lot of the 'top' talent ends up notso hotso.
So, this young man is more than welcome in my book.

[BoulderSooner79]

Using Welker as an example of someone not good enough for OU just because he played for Tech? Good enough for the Pats/Broncos, but not the Sooners? I'm having a tough time following that one.

[cvsooner]

Apparently TDTW wants the Sooners to be Soviet hockey...recruit only the absolute top, work them mercilessly and only lose a game once every two decades. It ain't happening, not in this day and age. He yearns for the old Bud Wilkinson days when the Sooners were indeed very good but also built a 47-game winning streak beating up on the likes of Kansas, Iowa State, Oklahoma A & M...actually not much has changed, really, other than the fact that everybody else got a lot better at football.

[graphster]

Welker 2000-2003

Texas Tech 0-4 versus OU. Final two years, experienced Welker loses to OU 60-15 and 56-25. Welker scores 1 touchdown combined in the two games, the only touchdown he scored in four games against Oklahoma.

Welker is lucky Tech gave him a scholarship. He'd have sat on our bench his freshman year while we won a national title. And, it's unlikely he'd have ever started at game at OU.

He should always be grateful to Texas Tech, for sure, who are always desperate for any player to agree to spend four years of their lives in Lubbock. But, OU never needed him.

As it stood, OU beat Welker and Tech every year, played for three conference titles and two national titles without him. It's good that he got to play in the galleryfurniture.com Bowl, Tangerine Bowl, Alamo Bowl, and Houston Bowl while with Tech. Those are, for the players who are involved, probably fun. The parents are likely proud to sit in the half empty stadiums and watch them as well.

LOL. Welker has done more in the NFL than all of the Stoops era Sooner WRs have, combined.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Really? You are using team stats to prove how good a player is? Welker is going to be in the college football HOF and might have a shot at the NFL HOF.

In 2000, he would have redshirted just like the other receivers in his class -> Will Peoples and Mark Clayton.
In 2001, he would have been instrumental after we lost Mackey and Clayton to injuries. He also would have been our Punt Returner if anyone remembers the revolving door back there.
In 2002, he would have stepped in when Peoples went down. Peoples was never the same after that so he wouldn't have been an impact there.
2003/2004 - It would have been Clayton/Jones/Welker/Bradley primary with Travis Lewis/Rankins on spot duty.

Maybe. You don't have any idea. We didn't run an offense anywhere similar to Texas Tech's, so he wouldn't have had the same opportunites here that he had there. That's the point.

We didn't need him, and he didn't need us. The receivers we had were bigger and also great blockers. He just ran around in that high school offense Leach used at Tech, catching balls four yards behind or past the line of scrimmage. He got lucky when the Chargers dealt him to New England, a team which doesn't let its quarterback throw down the field very far. It was perfect for him.

He should thank his lucky stars that he didn't come to OU, either as a walk-on or scholarship player. He was a system player who found two systems that worked for him. Thousands of players don't find that. He got lucky twice, and should be thankful for it.

We didn't need him. And, for the record, the College Football Hall of Fame is a joke. There are tons of coaches in there with losing records and players who did not lead their programs to any type of championships. Submit your own name and some fake credentials to the College Hall and they might let you in as well.

[cvsooner]

I think of Jalen Saunders, who was heavily recruited by Fresno State and wound up with us. I'd love to have a couple more like him. Top recruits don't always--in fact, frequently--don't pan out. I'm with JKM: find football players and make them better. We seem to have settled into a pattern of finding excellent athletes who aren't very good at playing football, and that, if anything, has been the big issue for us in the past seven or eight years.

[Curly Bill]

Recruiting is largely a crapshoot, and regardless of the number of stars a kid has it's a tough deal to identify and sign the ones that will excel as college players.

OU's problem is that it doesn't seem able to do this as well as it once did earlier in the Stoops tenure, and I dare say OU's development of players once here has also slid.

Will the new coaching changes help in this regard? We shall see. I'd say that I'm more pessimistic than optimistic.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Other than being human and, therefore, walking upon two legs, there is no similarity between Saunders and this Baxter kid.

Saunders had offers from Power Five schools, more than one. He played at Fresno State as a freshman, returning kicks and working into the receiver rotation there to the tune of being third on the team in receptions. His sophomore season, he was all conference. Then, he transferred to OU.

Baxter hasn't done anything of the sort that Saunders did. He committed to June Jones' SMU outfit as it was tanking. Couldn't cut get qualified and spent two years at a JUCO. After being courted by a number of notoriously poor football programs, he chose USF.

When he couldn't complete the monumental task of taking 12 hours to get qualified, he chose to walk-on at OU.

Saunders was good enough to play as a freshman and had himself squared away off the field as well. He was on scholarship at Fresno and OU. This Baxter kid, he hasn't squared himself away off the field twice now. He's in his fourth year away from high school football and hasn't played a snap of real college football. There is no similarity, football-wise, whatsoever, between Saunders and Baxter.

This is no major coup in recruiting. Properly put, this is a footnote.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I think of Jalen Saunders, who was heavily recruited by Fresno State and wound up with us. I'd love to have a couple more like him. Top recruits don't always--in fact, frequently--don't pan out. I'm with JKM: find football players and make them better. We seem to have settled into a pattern of finding excellent athletes who aren't very good at playing football, and that, if anything, has been the big issue for us in the past seven or eight years.

I'd take another Saunders - a proven entity by the end of his sophomore year - as well. But, this kid ain't it.

[Curly Bill]

And as an addendum to my above post:

It does trouble me, as I've joked about on here before, that more and more OU seems to be in competition less and less with the likes of Alabama, LSU, and the likes for recruits, and more and more in competition with North Texas, New Mexico, ULM, and the like.

[graphster]

Maybe. You don't have any idea. We didn't run an offense anywhere similar to Texas Tech's, so he wouldn't have had the same opportunites here that he had there. That's the point.

We didn't need him, and he didn't need us. The receivers we had were bigger and also great blockers. He just ran around in that high school offense Leach used at Tech, catching balls four yards behind or past the line of scrimmage. He got lucky when the Chargers dealt him to New England, a team which doesn't let its quarterback throw down the field very far. It was perfect for him.

He should thank his lucky stars that he didn't come to OU, either as a walk-on or scholarship player. He was a system player who found two systems that worked for him. Thousands of players don't find that. He got lucky twice, and should be thankful for it.

We didn't need him. And, for the record, the College Football Hall of Fame is a joke. There are tons of coaches in there with losing records and players who did not lead their programs to any type of championships. Submit your own name and some fake credentials to the College Hall and they might let you in as well.

Do you even watch the games? Our offense relied pretty heavily on slot receivers taking people apart with underneath passes. There was a time when Hybl was criticized by the fan base for never throwing downfield, we threw underneath so much. In 2004-2007, we became more of a power run team due to Peterson, but prior to that (and since then), we have used the short passing game as a major part of the offense.

There's a reason that guys like Clayton and Broyles (along with Saunders and Iglesias), who were great small/quick type receivers similar to Welker, were able to have so much success at OU.

Welker would have made a bigger impact at OU than several of the 4 and 5 star guys we got who ended up not being able to run routes, catch the ball, or stay out of trouble (DeJuan Miller, Trey Metoyer, etc...).

I'm not even sure what this argument is about. Dude is walking on and will compete for a spot. Apparently we should only accept walk-ons who have offers to Bama and Ohio State.

[SicEmBaylor]

In TDRW's world, any player who isn't a 4*-5* player on consistent national championship caliber teams is absolute trash. Any player or coach who doesn't win a national championship is trash. Any school that isn't an 'old money' blue-blood program is trash.

In his world, only the absolute best players in the country would even be allowed to compete and even then only if they come from a dozen or so top universities. Everyone else should just play flag football.

[Curly Bill]

Specifically as it relates to this kid - if he wants to walk on more power to him & good luck.

My above comments were related to recruiting in general.

[Tear Down This Wall]

In TDRW's world, any player who isn't a 4*-5* player on consistent national championship caliber teams is absolute trash. Any player or coach who doesn't win a national championship is trash. Any school that isn't an 'old money' blue-blood program is trash.

In his world, only the absolute best players in the country would even be allowed to compete and even then only if they come from a dozen or so top universities. Everyone else should just play flag football.

You're almost on point. The point is Oklahoma (Alabama, Michigan, USC, etc.) don't rely on the table scraps of SMU, North Texas, etc. Over the last few recruiting periods, we've signed too many linemen - in my opinion - that didn't have have offers from great programs, but who were courted for months and years by the Houstons and North Texases of the world.

If you have to rely on 2-star players and hope like hell they work out, that's fine. But, there's no point in Oklahoma-type programs doing it.

What has happened here is an SMU/USF-caliber player has walked on to the team. It was posted here as though we'd made some significant pick up - more laughably, Jalen Saunders was brought into the conversation.

It's not a significant pick up. It's not a Jalen Saunders-type of athlete; not even close. It's nothing more than another walk-on who likely will never earn a scholarship.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Do you even watch the games? Our offense relied pretty heavily on slot receivers taking people apart with underneath passes. There was a time when Hybl was criticized by the fan base for never throwing downfield, we threw underneath so much. In 2004-2007, we became more of a power run team due to Peterson, but prior to that (and since then), we have used the short passing game as a major part of the offense.

There's a reason that guys like Clayton and Broyles (along with Saunders and Iglesias), who were great small/quick type receivers similar to Welker, were able to have so much success at OU.

Welker would have made a bigger impact at OU than several of the 4 and 5 star guys we got who ended up not being able to run routes, catch the ball, or stay out of trouble (DeJuan Miller, Trey Metoyer, etc...).

I'm not even sure what this argument is about. Dude is walking on and will compete for a spot. Apparently we should only accept walk-ons who have offers to Bama and Ohio State.

The reason Hybl was criticized was he threw to the running back too much. Q was 2nd on the team in receptions with 55 in 2001...behind tight end Trent Smith, who had 61. Top two receivers in what would have been Welker's redshirt freshmen year were the running back and tight end.

Welker only led Texas Tech in receptions his senior year.

You overblow Welker to the extreme. He didn't start his freshman year at Tech, and would have sat on the bench at OU. He'd have been behind many experienced receivers in 2001 and 2002 at OU. He might have transferred out by 2003 as well because by then Mark Clayton was already established as the go-to guy.

OU had no need for Wes Welker, and that's why he wasn't offered a scholarship. Texas Tech is always desperate for anyone; and, so, they gave Welker a shot. But, he didn't walk on and light it up from the get go.

Again, he got into two great situations - for him. He needed those systems he played in. He did a great job of doing what he did for his size. But, OU never needed him, and he wouldn't have been able to make much of a dent in the lineup had he walked on here.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The reason Hybl was criticized was he threw to the running back too much. Q was 2nd on the team in receptions with 55 in 2001...behind tight end Trent Smith, who had 61. Top two receivers in what would have been Welker's redshirt freshmen year were the running back and tight end.

Welker only led Texas Tech in receptions his senior year.

You overblow Welker to the extreme. He didn't start his freshman year at Tech, and would have sat on the bench at OU. He'd have been behind many experienced receivers in 2001 and 2002 at OU. He might have transferred out by 2003 as well because by then Mark Clayton was already established as the go-to guy.

OU had no need for Wes Welker, and that's why he wasn't offered a scholarship. Texas Tech is always desperate for anyone; and, so, they gave Welker a shot. But, he didn't walk on and light it up from the get go.

Again, he got into two great situations - for him. He needed those systems he played in. He did a great job of doing what he did for his size. But, OU never needed him, and he wouldn't have been able to make much of a dent in the lineup had he walked on here.

Just to reset 2001,
we had a crazy number of injuries in the WR corps (clayton, mackey)
we had Josh Norman forgetting how to catch.
we had Hybl set throwing records to the RB
and then White set a record for throwing to the TE.
we had multiple long bombs to Savage and peoples
but only clayton that could work underneath
when he went down we tried it with Fagan - who was good at the WR screen and not much else

The thing about Welker is that he was a master of the option route (whereas clayton was best at the shallow cross). The option route forces you to commit 2 defenders to that area typically giving up the intermediate route. The 2 of them together would have been nasty as long as someone could run the fade/post to pull the safeties back.

It isn't that different than when the Pats set all sorts of offensive records doing that with Welker and the kid from Florida.

[SicEmBaylor]

I've always been a fan of Hybl. He deserves more credit than he gets.

[Curly Bill]

I've always been a fan of Hybl. He deserves more credit than he gets.

You're saying this as a Baylor fan right?

[SicEmBaylor]

You're saying this as a Baylor fan right?

No. This is the OU side of me speaking.

[Curly Bill]

No. This is the OU side of me speaking.

Hmmmmm....Well, to each their own I guess.