He'd be an upgrade over what we have nowOriginally Posted by Curly Bill
He'd be an upgrade over what we have now
Well, certainly over what we had last year. I'm hoping all of them are MUCH improved this year.
And, although it would take some doing, sometimes sports works that way: you try and fail at something for what seems like forever and then it suddenly starts to work.
"I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown
Conversely, I loathed Landry. Not as a person -- he seems to be a fine upstanding man...but as a player? Christ.
OU hasn't had a truly great QB since Bradford.
You want Hybl, but not Landry?
Can't say I loathed him, even as a player. But frustrated? Oh yes. The man was gifted beyond measure. Ask me to bet on who could put a football into a 5 gallon bucket, moving, 70 yards away, guarded by some athletic freak...and I'd bet on Landry Jones.
Ask me if I'd take that same bet if we added that he would be ''rushed' by two Brownie Scouts? Not with my own money.
"I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown
Not exactly. I'm just judging each in the context of the time they played. Head to head, Landry is more talented.
Landry had oodles of talent, but he lacked that killer instinct. The guy looked like a wet blanket on the sideline. He just didn't have that commanding presence/leadership in those games when his raw talent alone wasn't enough to win.
No question about that!
But that speaks to how bad we are at the position right now, not how good Hybl was.
Behold the pale horse. The man who sat on him was death, and Hell followed with him.
Olevet Posse Pistolero
Winner of the Nobel Peace Prize 2015.
Landry was a frustratingly up and down, but I don't think Heupel/Norvell did him any favors past his sophomore year. Norvell had too many WR corps that were 1-WR deep. I think we'd have a much better opinion of Landry had Broyles not went down, and had he not been thrust in the unenviable and unexpected position of replacing a Heisman trophy winner mid-season with his red-zone target already down for the year.
I agree that Bradford isn't truly great, but I think Bradford and RG3 might be about the only truly great Big XII QB's in the last decade or so. That's totally off of the top of my head, and I'm tired, so I may end up emphatically rescinding that statement.
I'm also going to strongly disagree with the lack of killer instinct statement. His back-to-back against WVU and OSU was one of the gutsiest performances I've ever seen, and it wasn't just the stats. It was unreal.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=323220277
http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=323290201
OU isn't 'relying' on 2*players. A coaching staff would be remiss not to take the opportunity to add a walk-on that might very well be a valuable asset. It's low risk / high reward. If the coaching staff did as you suggested guys like Lane Johnson (NFL Draft Round: 1 / Pick 4) or Aaron Ripkowski (NFL Draft 2015 Round 6 / Pick 206) would never have seen the light of day at OU. Those guys weren't even considered good enough to be offered by the SMU's or New Mexico States.
Don't worry. You're right, he's wrong. OU had a highly ranked class last year...and for many years. We are not relying on no names.
"I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown
Hybl was gutsy and put everything on the line. I still remember him hanging in the pocket and taking shot after shot against K-State in 2001. Landry never really gave you that type of feel. I remember a few times when he would even slide or go out of bounds 2 yards short of the first down on third down.
But if White doesn't get hurt in 2002, Hybl doesn't get the chance to redeem himself and probably isn't remembered the same way. People hated him during the 2001 season, and a lot of folks still feel like OU could have played for another NC if White doesn't blow out a knee in Lincoln.
Last edited by graphster; 8/4/2015 at 06:52 PM.
I agree that we were pretty stacked at WR from 2001-2004, but still feel like Welker would have made it onto the field. And the fact is that we aren't anywhere near that stacked at WR right now.
First of all, thank you for using your brain.
Second, that's exactly what I've said all along. He'd have seen the field here, but not near as much as he did at Texas Tech. He'd have never been the main target here. Mangino ran a different offense than Leach. That is, he ran an offense that gave us Big 12 championships and a national title.
Leach, of course, threw the ball a ton, and Welker was the beneficiary in that offense at that school. That was the right school for Welker; OU wasn't. And, yet, he still only led Tech in receptions once. And, like all Leach teams, Tech never sniffed a championship while Welker was there. His final two seasons, in fact, OU crushed Tech...as should happen every season if Stoops and his coaching staff have their heads pulled out of their as*ses.
Back then, we were about winning championships, not rewriting passing and receiving records. Here, Welker would have been a 30-40 reception guy along the lines of a Will Peoples, Brandon Jones, or Jejuan Rankin during that time period.
Good luck often comes to hard workers; and, that's the story of Wes Welker. His hard work paid off at a place that could give him more of a spotlight in college, Texas Tech. When he went pro, he took the long route, but was given the ultimate opportunity when he went to New England from Miami.
The Patriots ran a perfect offense to plug guys in and out. Brady has been the mainstay with the Pats; but, they've had a slew of receivers over the years. It's been Brady and that system that has made temporary stars out of many average to above average receivers.
David Patten, Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, Reche Caldwell, Julian Edelman along with Welker all led New England in receptions during Brady's career. It has never been a Dallas Cowboy Triplets-type of thing up there. The receivers come and go, get plugged in, think they deserve more money, and then get cut loose. The ownership and coaches know the deal is Brady. With the type of offense they run, they've been able to plug guys in at receivers - and, at running back as well - and still do well year in and year out.
Welker, for sure, had a nice run with the Pats. But, he was not the backbone of the deal. They won championship before and after him. He was just another guy they plugged in for awhile until money became and issue. Then, he was cut loose...and Julian Edelman stepped in and did the same thing Welker had done before...and Caldwell...and Givens...and Branch...and Brown...and Patten.
Last edited by Tear Down This Wall; 8/5/2015 at 12:44 PM.
"General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
President Ronald Reagan at the Berlin Wall, June 12, 1987
Most of his career would have been under Long, not Mangino as he was the same class as Clayton. I think that he and Clayton both would have been in the 75 catch range because he would have fulfilled a crazy critical role in the offense -> getting the 1st down on 2nd and 3rd and 5.
Good point on Mangino versus Long. Mangino 2000-2001, Long would have been 2002-04.
Leading receivers in 2002, the Rose Bowl season: Trent Smith with 46, Will Peoples with 39. That was the season Q went off for 1,800+ yards rushing. Given Q's season and no receiver getting over 40 catches, that surely wouldn't have been a year that Welker would have exploded.
Over at Texas Tech, however, Welker became one of the main focuses of the offense in 2002, finishing second in receptions for the Red Raiders.
That's what I'm saying. His opportunities here would not have been the same here as they were there.
In 2003, what happens? Mark Clayton emerges at OU, leads the team in receptions; Welker, in his senior year, finally leads Texas Tech in receptions.
In 2004, Clayton again is the man for OU. Welker was sitting on the benches of San Diego and Miami in the NFL that season. No catches, but he had his foot in the door.
So, again, Tech was the right place for Welker. OU had guys in place and for what would have been most of his OU career, the OU's leading receivers was tight end Trent Smith.
As it happens, Smith and Clayton also played in the NFL. So, it's not as though we had a collection of stiffs on campus that Welker would have run circles around - as a walk on.
What we had worked for us,and worked to a championship caliber. Welker helped Tech do what their main goal is - just get to a bowl game. He caught enough to get a free agent pass to the NFL. He made the best of that. Congrats to him.
"General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
President Ronald Reagan at the Berlin Wall, June 12, 1987
So, just to be clear, how is OU at WR in general? Setting this kid aside for a moment...
Fun bit of trivia: Does anyone know who scouted and recruited Welker to Texas Tech?
HINT: It was Art Briles.
Last edited by SicEmBaylor; 8/5/2015 at 03:02 PM.
I still can't accept Welker as just a system guy or just a hard working/over achiever. That guy had both talent and skills. Tech was certainly a good fit for him at the college level, but he would have done fine at OU too - he would have won a starting spot. Brady certainly makes his receivers look good, but they were noticeably less effective when he was out of the line-up while he was in his prime. He was a master at finding space in a zone and was stocky and strong enough to beat press coverage - he was a buzz saw of swim moves and hand fighting that wore defenders out. And if they got too cocky in tight man coverage, he would get behind them. Of course, once he ruptured the ACL and had a decade of wear behind him, he got too slow and expensive - happens to all players. He also held or was tied with the NCAA record for punt returns for TDs and was a good returner in the NFL too, so he was plenty athletic (again, in his prime).
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