Old Soviet-style...technically, almost everyone is employed; but, what is being manufactured that the world needs?Originally Posted by FaninAma
Sad that some countries don't understand it. Actually, it's sad that we're moving towards it after fighting against it for decades and finally killing it in 1989.
"General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
President Ronald Reagan at the Berlin Wall, June 12, 1987
Looks like a "NO" vote the Greek people are idiots----- http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...AWKN?ocid=iehp
Last edited by REDREX; 7/5/2015 at 05:43 PM.
Yeah, get ready for my Big Fat Greek Depression.
Somehow this seems appropriate.
Don't people over there have bank accounts and knew that a NO vote would result in an automatic "haircut" love that word for confiscation tax of 10-20%?? They are so addicted to the teat, they can't stop...
Everything progressives do is aimed at weakening democracy, capitalism and the social and cultural institutions that support those things...... They are about subjugating people and being a ruling class.
I just don't get this thinking. The previous bailout measures lowered their GDP by 29%. 29. When you are in a bad deal you get out of it, you don't sign on for more of the same. Greece is balking at one thing and one thing only -> If your plan lowers GDP, we don't pay it.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/greek-fi...dum-1436162284
Yanis Varoufakis resigned. He used to be a VP of Steam, and I remember some of my gaming friends getting a woody over the fact that he was announced as the new Greek Finance Minister thinking management of micro-transactions in games would translate to a national economy. He's a self-described Marxist -- surprise , surprise, surprise how that turned out.
Could some one give me the Cliff's Notes version of the Greek economy? Why are they so Communist and so indebted to a central government payroll or dole? Did all the hard working, risk taking Greeks leave the country for the U.S. to open a restaurant?
Everything progressives do is aimed at weakening democracy, capitalism and the social and cultural institutions that support those things...... They are about subjugating people and being a ruling class.
Nah, they're busy smearing baklava in little boys' asses.
Greece is a lot like Mexico, most of the money is tied up in the hands of a few shipping magnates. Greece based shipping firms have 20% of the world's freight hauling capacity. The problem is that shipping firms have a billion ways to dodge taxes and they have used pretty much all of them to do it. After shipping, their 2nd item is tourism which greatly benefits from a lowered currency (which in the EU they don't have). After that is agriculture (cotton and such).
The fundamental problem is that the Greek Regime that pushed them into the EU couldn't do currency related math and see its impact on tourism and their internal situation. They entered the EU when the euro was at an all time high (which fixed the price of the drachma) so all of their internal payments are fixed to that number. So while the euro has declined those internal and external payments haven't.
It wasn't very long before they realized the problem on the tourism end - they have zero advantage over any other EU state with pricing and since the EU is their primary source of tourism, it shrunk. At that point, the euro killed them and they had to go seek a bailout. They fulfilled all of the conditions of the bail out an then some (there are tons of articles about how they were a model of implementing austerity). There was just one small problem - those conditions were based on economic theory at the IMF that turned out to be wrong.
The IMF forecasted that if they did what they said right now Greece's GDP would be 1% less than it was when they signed the bail out and unemployment right now should be 11%. GDP has contracted 29%. Unemployment is 26%.
There are payday lenders that treat customers better than what the IMF did with Greece.
Nice summary. Having a standard currency helped strong currency nations like Germany but is killing those who need a weaker currency for the type of economy they have. I truly believe that the IMF and the ECB along with Greece's other creditors wanted to make an example out of Greece to discourage other debtor nations from trying to default on their loans.
Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.
Totally agree. As a guy who loves game theory watching Yanis Varoufakis come up with a strategy where he pits the pride/arrogance of the political side of the EU against the pride/arrogance of the economic side has been pretty cool to watch. If Greece gets a decent deal to get out of this mess, it will be pretty much all because of him.
---Greece will be gone from the EU if the think that is good for them then vote No----It will not be good for them-Funny how people want loans repayed
The entitlement culture is wrecking Greece, as it will wreck us. Entitlements are so ingrained into the American culture today, and they have been taught by the government that they are "entitled" to those goodies, paid for by hard working Americans, many are the same ones demonized on a daily basis by the left that they somehow owe more, that the top 10% of the income earners "only" paying 70% of the total federal income tax burden is somehow not enough and that the wide variance between wealthy and poor Americans is getting larger. This is of course is a reason for the left to impose more taxes on the well to do.
Does having a large segment of your population dependent upon the federal government ever bother any leftists? Do they understand that if the government collapsed, what these folks are going to do to survive? Think Ferguson, but instead coming to your house and mine.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
If Greece leaves the EU they have a lot better chance of paying those loans. One year after they left, I wouldn't be surprised if their GDP grew 10%.
This is wrong in so many ways. The problem was that previous Greek governments signed external deals that were not in their country's best interest. The current administration is doing everything they can to tweak those deals so that they can get out of being a debtor nation.
Also, I really wish OU would require people to take Logic.
Your second point illustrates that 100% of the people in the US are dependent on the federal government for safety. Le Sigh.Does having a large segment of your population dependent upon the federal government ever bother any leftists? Do they understand that if the government collapsed, what these folks are going to do to survive? Think Ferguson, but instead coming to your house and mine.
Also one other thing about the new terms - the IMF wants to levy a 15% VAT tax on hotels and other touristy things. It just verifies that this isn't a negotiation, this is a shakedown.
this just in, a Frenchman is not surrendering
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tho...ebt-2015-07-06
---If they leave and print new Greek money that does not create wealth--They will never get out of the problem without YEARS of sacrifice and lower spending----a lot lower
Greece's problems are many. They cooked to books to get into the Euro in the first place.
It's little wonder they are in this big mess now.
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