minimum wage push

[Soonerjeepman]

Heck, raise it to $30.00 an hour. If $10.00 is good, $15.00 is better, then Heck give them $30.00 an hour.
Seriously, what 90% of those making minimum wage are in high school living with mom and maybe Dad?
Anyone want to bet that a vast majority of these politicians promoting these increases have NEVER owned a business in their life?
Lastly for those making a minimum wage in their mid-twenties or older...what kind of a loser are these people? If you arrive at a job at minimum wage, and you have even an average work ethic, most employers will give you a raise pretty soon, because for most employers, and I am one, finding and retaining good employees are your biggest challenge. There are so many lazy, irresponsible People out there, that you want to hang onto a solid worker, and you do that by paying them more. More government meddling in business. They just can't help themselves.

bingo....

being a community organizer is something good~

[champions77]

If you want to blame job losses To overseas, then look no farther than the Labor Unions and government regulations and tax policies. Labor Unions who extorted wages out of businesses have ruined the garment, steel and almost the auto industry by demanding pay, benefits and retirement that was completely out of scale with the market For what those types of vocations should be paying is to blame, and the consequences of that we're very predictable. Paying a high school graduate $30 an hour, $50 an hour including benefits, is not what someone that bolts On the rear bumper of a Tahoe is worth.

[Tear Down This Wall]

If you want to blame job losses To overseas, then look no farther than the Labor Unions and government regulations and tax policies. Labor Unions who extorted wages out of businesses have ruined the garment, steel and almost the auto industry by demanding pay, benefits and retirement that was completely out of scale with the market For what those types of vocations should be paying is to blame, and the consequences of that we're very predictable. Paying a high school graduate $30 an hour, $50 an hour including benefits, is not what someone that bolts On the rear bumper of a Tahoe is worth.

You have to know by now that leftists never will understand that. That is why we are going to be Venezuela II once my kids are in their 40s.

[badger]

You mean saving?

I mean not-spending. Call it saving, call it hording, they're not spending, similar to consumers after the gas price drop. The ones trying to put a positive spin on all of the lost regional oil-related jobs said that the rest of the economy would thrive because people had more money to spend instead of spending it all on gas. Nope; consumers chose to save/horde/not-spend.

Sadly, when the oil prices inevitably rise again, I don't see our oil jobs returning to similar levels

[Since71ASooner4Life]

I mostly agree with you. Those people making fast food a career used to work in the industries that we have since shipped to China and Mexico. The big dogs are the targets of this kind of movement. They will not be touched. They WILL get their margin one way or the other.

Is there anyone who thinks the USA ought to stop exporting $1.5 Trillion every year? Those exports must be depriving people of jobs in those countries we export to, no? I bet the same boneheads who think they deserve $15 an hour for flipping burgers and want to complain about imports don't have a problem with the effects of our exports. No, actually that kind of thing never crosses their narrow minds.

[Serenity Now]

Is there anyone who thinks the USA ought to stop exporting $1.5 Trillion every year? Those exports must be depriving people of jobs in those countries we export to, no? I bet the same boneheads who think they deserve $15 an hour for flipping burgers and want to complain about imports don't have a problem with the effects of our exports. No, actually that kind of thing never crosses their narrow minds.

So, are you saying that we don't have a trade deficit that's a problem?

[Since71ASooner4Life]

So, are you saying that we don't have a trade deficit that's a problem?

My point was that to blindly denounce importation of foreign goods as so many of the minimum wage boneheads and unions like to do makes no sense - they are simply showing their ignorance/lack of education. I made no statement about trade deficits. But since you are on the topic, I'll respond by saying that in and of itself, I don't see a trade deficit as the problem that some with a political agenda like to suggest that it is. To talk about one facet of an economy without the context of the rest of it doesn't address the complete picture. There are countries who are net exporters - are their economies fine? China? Japan? Across all social classes the average American's economic standing within the world doesn't suggest to me that our trade deficit is killing off our country. Relative to their peers around the world who perform similar tasks, our white and blue collars on average have a superior standard of living. And compared to their peers, our poor live like kings and queens. So if across all social classes the average American is doing better than his peers around the world, how does that support the notion that in and of itself our trade deficit is such a terrible problem?

[Serenity Now]

My point was that to blindly denounce importation of foreign goods as so many of the minimum wage boneheads and unions like to do makes no sense - they are simply showing their ignorance/lack of education. I made no statement about trade deficits. But since you are on the topic, I'll respond by saying that in and of itself, I don't see a trade deficit as the problem that some with a political agenda like to suggest that it is. To talk about one facet of an economy without the context of the rest of it doesn't address the complete picture. There are countries who are net exporters - are their economies fine? China? Japan? Across all social classes the average American's economic standing within the world doesn't suggest to me that our trade deficit is killing off our country. Relative to their peers around the world who perform similar tasks, our white and blue collars on average have a superior standard of living. And compared to their peers, our poor live like kings and queens. So if across all social classes the average American is doing better than his peers around the world, how does that support the notion that in and of itself our trade deficit is such a terrible problem?

I have little problem with importing goods. I have a problem with a system design that sees US workers having their jobs taken. Again, anecdotally, the Oklahoma Wrangler plants weren't union. And, I'm not a big proponent of unions. Get rid of them. I agree with 77 about unions, mostly. A guy with a HS diploma running a machine in Detroit deserves to be paid a reasonable wage. I think we all know that they've gotten more than a reasonable wage. And, before you go off on us "leftists", this is a bipartisan issue. NAFTA is a good example. GHWB initiated it and took the photo ops. It went into effect under Clinton.

[Since71ASooner4Life]

I have little problem with importing goods. I have a problem with a system design that sees US workers having their jobs taken. Again, anecdotally, the Oklahoma Wrangler plants weren't union. And, I'm not a big proponent of unions. Get rid of them. I agree with 77 about unions, mostly. A guy with a HS diploma running a machine in Detroit deserves to be paid a reasonable wage. I think we all know that they've gotten more than a reasonable wage. And, before you go off on us "leftists", this is a bipartisan issue. NAFTA is a good example. GHWB initiated it and took the photo ops. It went into effect under Clinton.

I'm not going to talk about political orientation, but I wish you would actually respond to something I said instead of going off in other directions. The fact is that the United States is a huge exporter - $1.5 Trillion per year and trailing only China and the entire European Union. Why is it that you folks who cry about imports refuse to acknowledge that trade is good for both parties? Protectionist ideology is nonsense. I never heard a laborer in this country say he only wished he could be paid like laborers in other countries - no, he wants to be paid like a white collar who has invested $100K in college tuition, for doing unskilled tasks. That isn't reality - not here, and nowhere else in the world. It is a failure to acknowledge that we live in a global economy and the macroeconomic forces off supply and demand for unskilled labor are what determine his income, not a conspiracy of CEOs. He refuses to acknowledge that it is his responsibility that he's unskilled, and only wants to blame and cry unfair. The uneducated person who thinks a protectionist trade policy and $15 an hour wages would solve his woes is dead wrong - his income would double while his expenses go up by a larger multiple, making him poorer. The answer is to acquire skills, and be paid like skilled Americans who have great economic prospects and high standards of living.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I have little problem with importing goods. I have a problem with a system design that sees US workers having their jobs taken. Again, anecdotally, the Oklahoma Wrangler plants weren't union. And, I'm not a big proponent of unions. Get rid of them. I agree with 77 about unions, mostly. A guy with a HS diploma running a machine in Detroit deserves to be paid a reasonable wage. I think we all know that they've gotten more than a reasonable wage. And, before you go off on us "leftists", this is a bipartisan issue. NAFTA is a good example. GHWB initiated it and took the photo ops. It went into effect under Clinton.

Idiot. Bush may have proposed NAFTA, but Clinton and every dim-witted president since has kept it alive.

What is the matter with you idiots? They are all the same at the top...selling us off to China - left and right, right and left.

[Serenity Now]

I'm not going to talk about political orientation, but I wish you would actually respond to something I said instead of going off in other directions. The fact is that the United States is a huge exporter - $1.5 Trillion per year and trailing only China and the entire European Union. Why is it that you folks who cry about imports refuse to acknowledge that trade is good for both parties? Protectionist ideology is nonsense. I never heard a laborer in this country say he only wished he could be paid like laborers in other countries - no, he wants to be paid like a white collar who has invested $100K in college tuition, for doing unskilled tasks. That isn't reality - not here, and nowhere else in the world. It is a failure to acknowledge that we live in a global economy and the macroeconomic forces off supply and demand for unskilled labor are what determine his income, not a conspiracy of CEOs. He refuses to acknowledge that it is his responsibility that he's unskilled, and only wants to blame and cry unfair. The uneducated person who thinks a protectionist trade policy and $15 an hour wages would solve his woes is dead wrong - his income would double while his expenses go up by a larger multiple, making him poorer. The answer is to acquire skills, and be paid like skilled Americans who have great economic prospects and high standards of living.

The laborers that I know are happy to have non-union work in our area starting out at $17/hour. Power plants, paper mills, etc. It's the next level down that migrated to Mexico that hurt Oklahoma.

Just because we export a butt load doesn't mean that a trade deficit is a good thing. We can't not make anything. While we have a great skilled workforce, we also have a large unskilled workforce. Everyone can't have college degrees. There's a balance that is required in my opinion.

[Serenity Now]

Idiot. Bush may have proposed NAFTA, but Clinton and every dim-witted president since has kept it alive.

What is the matter with you idiots? They are all the same at the top...selling us off to China - left and right, right and left.

Why are you such a punk? I blamed them both. In fact, I never voted for Clinton because of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...rade_Agreement See the picture of Bush signing it? I blame Clinton as well.

I bet you're a f'n picnic to live with.

[Since71ASooner4Life]

The laborers that I know are happy to have non-union work in our area starting out at $17/hour. Power plants, paper mills, etc. It's the next level down that migrated to Mexico that hurt Oklahoma.

Just because we export a butt load doesn't mean that a trade deficit is a good thing. We can't not make anything. While we have a great skilled workforce, we also have a large unskilled workforce. Everyone can't have college degrees. There's a balance that is required in my opinion.

I didn't say a trade deficit was a good thing - what I did say was that if you look at the complete picture of the US standards of living across the social classes, relative to their global counterparts, its hard to find criticism of the US system. Of course there are belligerent people who will argue blindly in favor of any cause which benefits themselves, with a to hell with everyone else attitude. They stomp their foot screaming about what is so wrong with the way something is, but lack the fundamental economic acumen to justify what they are saying with any kind of fact based argument. I've been waiting 54 years to hear someone tell me where on earth there is a better and more fair system than the US. It doesn't exist. As much as I hate aspects of capitalism, a system which directly links rewards to what one has earned is the most fair system. I feel badly for uneducated / unskilled people who struggle to make ends meet. But the solution isn't that the rules to the game are rigged and need to be changed, its to make yourself more marketable however that has to be done. Not everyone is capable - that is the harsh reality of life.

[Serenity Now]

I didn't say a trade deficit was a good thing - what I did say was that if you look at the complete picture of the US standards of living across the social classes, relative to their global counterparts, its hard to find criticism of the US system. Of course there are belligerent people who will argue blindly in favor of any cause which benefits themselves, with a to hell with everyone else attitude. They stomp their foot screaming about what is so wrong with the way something is, but lack the fundamental economic acumen to justify what they are saying with any kind of fact based argument. I've been waiting 54 years to hear someone tell me where on earth there is a better and more fair system than the US. It doesn't exist. As much as I hate aspects of capitalism, a system which directly links rewards to what one has earned is the most fair system. I feel badly for uneducated / unskilled people who struggle to make ends meet. But the solution isn't that the rules to the game are rigged and need to be changed, its to make yourself more marketable however that has to be done. Not everyone is capable - that is the harsh reality of life.

Reasonable statement. My hunch is that NAFTA was a long term plan to try to equalize the US with our neighbors in an effort to disincentivize illegal immigration. If the US and Mexico were water levels, it was an effort to let some water flow from the US to Mexico to try to equalize the two. The upside was that we got to send stuff to Canada also.

[Soonerjeepman]

went to burger king this morning before painting...(summer work)...

all mexican but the asst manager. Sign in the back said "If you can't do your job right then go elsewhere"

I made a comment about the sign...the asst manager (a lady) said that BK just got bought out by some company and the new policy was to NOT hire minors (under 18) anymore. BUT she also said that $15 min wage was wrong...that just means $5 a gallon gas eventually...understands it just rolls downhill.