WILL BHO leave office in January 2017?

[champions77]

It's in my wheel house yes! I'm a former national officer in the Children of the Confederacy, and I'm currently a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. The actual war history of the conflict doesn't interest me nearly as much as the political history and the political theory of the conflict (I'm much more a WWII buff when talking actual war history). But the politics of the war are front and center in my wheel house. I don't know that I'd go so far as to say the US Constitution was more pro-slavery, but the rest of that is absolutely true. There were slave holding Union states (remember the Union did not go to war to end slavery; the Union went to war to preserve the Union), and the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in territory that wasn't even the United States. It was a PR stunt. The war was not going horribly well for the Union, and public will to continue fighting people who just wanted their own government was waning. So Lincoln moved the goal posts. Instead of fighting to deny people the right to form a government of their own choosing; he convinced the public to fight to ensure freedom. One is clearly a more erstwhile goal than the other.



This is 100% right. It went both ways, in fact. The south could ship its raw goods to Europe and import finished products cheaper with a higher profit than by shipping raw material north and buying northern goods. It's why the south favored free-trade. The north always wanted higher tarrifs which would have cut into the south's profits and made goods more expensive to import which would allow the north to set even higher prices. The south had little means of production, but they had the raw goods. The situation was reversed for the north. The abolitionist movement was even started and encouraged, in part, by northern farmers (and even industrial workers) who resented the south's source of 'free' labor. Which, despite the lack of political and legal freedom, slaves often lived under better living conditions than inner-city factory workers. Even after the war, those northern factory workers did NOT want former slaves coming north because they would work for less and would steal jobs. Which is another thing you don't hear about...

There is a lot that our children are NOT taught about the Civil War. A lot.
WW II buff? My wife and I toured Normandy summer of 2013, staying at Bayeux, France four nights. Also got up to Berchtesgaden, Germany and toured the "Eagles nest". Had a fantastic time. Planning to get back in the next few years. A lot we were not able to see due to time constraints. Don't recall ever have the feeling I had when walking down Omaha Beach (Fox Green Sector, eastern end of Omaha) knowing what occurred there and the courage and bravery our soldiers displayed. Gives me goose bumps just thinking of it.

[Serenity Now]

I watched the first 30 minutes of Private Ryan last night while I was letting the NBA game get out in front of the commercials (first world problems). Heart breaking to think about the human loss in that time on both sides.

[TAFBSooner]

Oddly enough, there were also about half a dozen Chinese in the Confederate Army...

Among the first 'Germans' captured at Normandy were several Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they were captured by the US Army.

[champions77]

I watched the first 30 minutes of Private Ryan last night while I was letting the NBA game get out in front of the commercials (first world problems). Heart breaking to think about the human loss in that time on both sides.

With ALL that went wrong in Operation Overlord and the carnage that ensued, makes me wonder if the media we have today covered that operation, what would be the response? Eisenhower asked to resign, planners of the invasion vilified for their incompetency, Anti-War protestors marching on the White House, investigations as why so many things went wrong?

[Turd_Ferguson]

With ALL that went wrong in Operation Overlord and the carnage that ensued, makes me wonder if the media we have today covered that operation, what would be the response? Eisenhower asked to resign, planners of the invasion vilified for their incompetency, Anti-War protestors marching on the White House, investigations as why so many things went wrong?

Of course that would happen. There's no common sense anymore. We had it back in the day.

[olevetonahill]

Back to OP Question, Of course he will leave, If not we just call This Guy

[Turd_Ferguson]

DAMN!!!

[TAFBSooner]

With ALL that went wrong in Operation Overlord and the carnage that ensued, makes me wonder if the media we have today covered that operation, what would be the response? Eisenhower asked to resign, planners of the invasion vilified for their incompetency, Anti-War protestors marching on the White House, investigations as why so many things went wrong?

WWII was a just war.

Iraq 2.0 was not.




There's also the fact that D-Day went a lot more wrong for Fritz than it did for the Allies.

[TAFBSooner]

It's in my wheel house yes! I'm a former national officer in the Children of the Confederacy, and I'm currently a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. The actual war history of the conflict doesn't interest me nearly as much as the political history and the political theory of the conflict (I'm much more a WWII buff when talking actual war history). But the politics of the war are front and center in my wheel house. I don't know that I'd go so far as to say the US Constitution was more pro-slavery, but the rest of that is absolutely true. There were slave holding Union states (remember the Union did not go to war to end slavery; the Union went to war to preserve the Union), and the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in territory that wasn't even the United States. It was a PR stunt. The war was not going horribly well for the Union, and public will to continue fighting people who just wanted their own government was waning. So Lincoln moved the goal posts. Instead of fighting to deny people the right to form a government of their own choosing; he convinced the public to fight to ensure freedom. One is clearly a more erstwhile goal than the other.



This is 100% right. It went both ways, in fact. The south could ship its raw goods to Europe and import finished products cheaper with a higher profit than by shipping raw material north and buying northern goods. It's why the south favored free-trade. The north always wanted higher tarrifs which would have cut into the south's profits and made goods more expensive to import which would allow the north to set even higher prices. The south had little means of production, but they had the raw goods. The situation was reversed for the north. The abolitionist movement was even started and encouraged, in part, by northern farmers (and even industrial workers) who resented the south's source of 'free' labor. Which, despite the lack of political and legal freedom, slaves often lived under better living conditions than inner-city factory workers. Even after the war, those northern factory workers did NOT want former slaves coming north because they would work for less and would steal jobs. Which is another thing you don't hear about...

The primary reason for South Carolina (the first and the worst) attempting to secede from the Union, as given in their "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union " of 24 December 1860:

... increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery ...

While later claims have been made after the war's end that the South Carolinian decision to secede was prompted by other issues such as tariffs and taxes, these issues were not mentioned at all in the declaration.



And a more minor quibble:

"Which, despite the lack of political and legal freedom, slaves often lived under better living conditions than inner-city factory workers. "

Maybe, except for that whole whip thing.

[Serenity Now]

The primary reason for South Carolina (the first and the worst) attempting to secede from the Union, as given in their "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union " of 24 December 1860:

... increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery ...

While later claims have been made after the war's end that the South Carolinian decision to secede was prompted by other issues such as tariffs and taxes, these issues were not mentioned at all in the declaration.



And a more minor quibble:



Maybe, except for that whole whip thing.

And the selling of children. I had a soft moment this morning as I looked at our cat who just had 5 kittens. We've got them all homes but she's going to have to part with them when they are just babies.

[BoulderSooner79]

With ALL that went wrong in Operation Overlord and the carnage that ensued, makes me wonder if the media we have today covered that operation, what would be the response? Eisenhower asked to resign, planners of the invasion vilified for their incompetency, Anti-War protestors marching on the White House, investigations as why so many things went wrong?

Given the technology differences between then and now, such criticism would be justified. But I'm sure large military operations still have tons of screw-ups; the technology just moves where the human errors happen.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

With ALL that went wrong in Operation Overlord and the carnage that ensued, makes me wonder if the media we have today covered that operation, what would be the response? Eisenhower asked to resign, planners of the invasion vilified for their incompetency, Anti-War protestors marching on the White House, investigations as why so many things went wrong?

Eisenhower would never have been president, either. Ugly to contemplate how things would have gone from there.

[ouwasp]

BHO will leave on time...And not a moment too soon.

If HRC is incoming, the left will be giddy and anxious to see the ultimate glass ceiling being shattered. If it's a white GOP guy, the wistful attitude of much of the media will be delicious.

[BoulderSooner79]

BHO will leave on time...And not a moment too soon.

If HRC is incoming, the left will be giddy and anxious to see the ultimate glass ceiling being shattered. If it's a white GOP guy, the wistful attitude of much of the media will be delicious.

You only mention the "left" - so if it is HRC, how will the "right" react?

[olevetonahill]

You only mention the "left" - so if it is HRC, how will the "right" react?

Simple

[Eielson]

If we follow 8 years of BHO with 8 years of HRC, I wonder if we'll ever have anything other than white males ever again.

[BoulderSooner79]

Simple

So, we just rename Obamafest->Hillaryfest and otherwise things stay the same.

[Eielson]

So, we just rename Obamafest->Hillaryfest and otherwise things stay the same.

But then we'll all be sexist instead of racist. Personally, I welcome the change, as this racism thing is getting boring.

[Soonerjeepman]

I don't care for the white half of obama anymore than the black half...it all stinks~

[olevetonahill]

But then we'll all be sexist instead of racist. Personally, I welcome the change, as this racism thing is getting boring.

Im ambidextrous I can go either way with the Izms