As mentioned in other posts, we are not completely innocent in our dealings with Persia.Originally Posted by ouwasp
What is in it for us, reducing centrifuges, reduction on uranium and the capacity to enrich, and a reduction of plutonium. What is in it for the hardliners but more war and mismanagement. Christ, we make foreign policy based on the wishes of another nation state, that is f*cked up. Who gives a fat sh*t what Bibi and his ilk like, they are not drivers of our security policy.
So I assume you'd support a tax hike to pay for the next round of adventurism in the ME. The last war the warmongers supported was so effective...and cheap.
How the GOP Became the Israel Party
When the unexpectedly detailed P5+1 framework agreement with Iran was announced last Thursday, Illinois Republican Mark Kirk made a bizarre comment. “We all know” said the senator, that this is going to end with “a mushroom cloud somewhere near Tehran”—a result of Israel having to go to war to “clean up the mess” made by American and European negotiators. A few days earlier John McCain had expressed the wish that Israel “go rogue” and attack Iran in order to upend the Iran negotiations.
It would have been one thing if such comments had come from backbench congressmen. But McCain is a former GOP presidential nominee, one of his party’s most prominent foreign policy spokesmen. Kirk is the co-sponsor of what was, until recently, the major Senate legislation intended to scuttle the Iran negotiations—a leader in GOP “pro-Israel” circles. Yet neither remark sparked a repudiation, or even any reaction at all. They were what one expects from the GOP these days, recklessness about war and peace fused with a passion for Israel. It was if all the diffuse sentiments which once fueled American nationalism and militarism were concentrated into a tight stream and displaced onto Israel, turning the country into the fantasy surrogate of American hawks. The conservative belief in American exceptionalism is like Zionism, Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol boasted. Kirk and McCain may know that Americans have little enthusiasm for another Mideast war; the U.S. Army understands perfectly well that no occupation of Iran could be sustained, and America would have zero international support if it tried. But no matter, they have Israel.
http://www.theamericanconservative.c...-israel-party/
It's a war that our grandchildren can pay for.
Er? The deal is designed to stop or at least slow down an Iran nuke. It includes INSPECTIONS which will never happen if things are status quo. But the bottom line is that the country in the most danger if Iran were to develop a nuke is IRAN. Israel has many times the technology and fire power of Iran and could turn it into a pile of smoking ashes without even going the nuke route. And given their intelligence network, there is no way Iran could develop a bomb in secret. Israel wants the current sanctions to remain in perpetuity because it keeps Iran crippled economically and thus limiting their regional influence. Shouting the nuke danger is a proven way to stir nationalism and win elections as Netanyahu just demonstrated.
Any negotiations with a rogue regime that continually espouses "We will annihilate the US and Israel" and "Death to America" while negotiations are being held must be viewed with an extraordinary amount of suspicion and skepticism. As a matter of fact, having such dialogue during negotiations for an important treaty is unheard of, and would be a reason to walk away in the past.
Anyone that has any degree of doubt and concern over these negotiations is perfectly understandable based on what we have seen in the past from this Administration, and the Iranians. I am sure BHO and Kerry were forced by the Mullahs to conduct these negotiations with a great deal more honesty and integrity than they have with the American people where lies, distortions and deception by the Obama Administration have been largely ignored by the Media. We now know that his landmark legislation the ACA would have had a zero chance of passing if the American people had been told the truth. Why anyone, including the Mullahs, would believe anything BHO says now without suspicion, is completely understandable.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
Yet we've had presidential nominees sing beach boy tunes about bombing Iran, we have a former ambassador to the UN write an op-ed about regime change and war, and various assorted hawks openly discuss the efficacy of bombing the f*ck out of a sovereign nation. I am certain they few our hardliners with the same amount of skepticism.
And what, exactly, would have been their motivation for doing those things?
OleVet Posse Instigator
They think that projecting an "image" of toughness is cool, they are woefully informed about the world in which they live, they think it will be cheap, easy, and Iranians will shower us with rose pedals after we blow them up. Take your pick, add more, who knows why, they need your vote.
No, I'm asking you what did Iran ever do to get such tough/cool/woefully informed/vote needing ****ers, to act like that toward Iran?
OleVet Posse Instigator
A - Being insulted by 1979-80 - by both the hostage crisis and the revolution against our boy the Shah.
Q - What would have been Iran's motivation for 1979?
A - 1953, when our CIA toppled a democratic regime in Iran to install said Shah.
Q - What would have been the CIA's motivation for 1953?
A - Keeping the oil revenues streaming to British and US oil interests.
Opinion - It's properly the CIA's job to deal with threats to our national security. It's not their job to be hit men for US corporations.
Ukraine: Not Our Fight.
More epicycles!
They apparently DO think it's the job of the USG to be hit men for corporations.
I think they know perfectly well it won't be cheap, easy, or appreciated by the victims. That was the sales pitch used in 2002-03. Didn't fool me then. I hope it fools nobody this time around.
Their best weapon, however, is that now the majority of people think it doesn't matter how they vote, write letters, or debate on message boards, the warmongers gonna make war.
Ukraine: Not Our Fight.
More epicycles!
Hostage crisis, marine barracks in Lebanon, some folks think Hezbollah was behind Khobar. Plenty of reasons for firebrands on both sides to talk tough.
Who is this "THEY" of which you speak?
Typical Lib, you throw every one in the same generic conservative pot.
Quote
If God wanted Men to look women in the eyes, He wouldnt have gave em Boobs !
So what? Do you mean that despite the fact that this "sovereign" nation has been a major exporter of terrorism around the world. That their leaders have executed thousands of their own citizens and they have voiced their intentions to destroy the US and Israel for decades, and we are supposed to afford them some type of respect? You seem to give them an excuse for their despicable behavior.
Your naivety of Iran reminds me of this Administration. Do you think if we were real nice to them they would change their ways? Of course you do.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
Our good pals the Saudis are also major exporters of terrorism yet we just sent them a bunch of weapons. They too have executed thousands, so have the Chinese, so did the Shah before the 79 revolution. The US and Israel have screamed about regime change in Iran for decades now. No excuse, just objective.
Your naïveté of how the world really works reminds of all the misleading statements made by neocons before the Iraq war. Do you think if we start another war in the ME it will get them to change their ways? Of course you do, cause it worked so well in Iraq.
Saudis? They are the "nice guys" in the middle east compared to the Iranians. No comparison. Surprised at the level of "compassion" you have for these murdering cowards.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
Naïveté.
I'm not happy with the Israelis using us as tools to do their dirty work and Congress is lapping it up.
5-0
BOY HOWDY !!!!
Saudis are the nice guys? I guess if you just count the royal family and can count on them staying in power forever. Lots of Saudi money goes to supporting the likes of ISIS and Al Qeuda and the average Saudi citizen see us as infidels that should have our heads lopped off.
Posting Permissions
