Brilliant Idea from Eric Striker

[Tear Down This Wall]

Then how would they milk money out of the students?

When I was a freshman, OU added a foreign language requirement to all degrees. I was rather annoyed about it and went off on Colonel Sanders (my ChemE advisor). His response was that there was a very loud minority at the school that felt that students owed OU a percentage of all future wages above and beyond what you could get with a high school diploma. In other words, education should be like syndication residuals that they got paid on for the rest of lives.

Totally agree with you and others about the cost and milking the students.

Even back in the 80s, I worked two jobs to get through college. I can't even imagine it today.

There has to be a niche somewhere in education where some outfit will finally break down and start post-high school colleges that only teach what is necessary. By my count, we've got at least two generation of kids who have been hoodwinked into thinking college is just a places where you go and get "open-minded" about bullsh*t academic philosophies.

If a kid isn't going to be a doctor, engineer, scientist, or something technical along those lines, they need to be put into two- or three-year programs where they are taught business skills. Things they'll need even if they never really own a business.

Teach them skills they'll need to not have the wool pulled over their eyes while engaging in regular life tasks such as the mortgage process, car purchase versus car lease, financial agreements, such as credit cards, etc.

The 2008 financial collapse was nothing but a huge picture of people not knowing what the f*ck they were signing or doing. More of that will come down the pike if we can't get a generation of kids to quit fixated on their skin color, religion, political affiliation and other crap that too many idiotic professors tell them are important.

Here is what life comes down to, no matter what color your skin or where you were born:
(1) CAN YOU PAY YOUR BILLS ON OR BY THE DUE DATE, AND FOR THE AMOUNT WHICH YOU OWE?
(2) CAN YOU FIND AND KEEP A JOB THAT ALLOWS YOU TO DO (1) YEAR AFTER YEAR, DECADE AFTER DECADE?

More humanities classes. Idiotic. Teach the kids how to be men and make a living.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually agree with TDTW. Seriously...almost word for word...as in, I was about to post, and now I might not because he said everything I wanted to say.

One thing I will add, though, is that there are already an obnoxious amount of gen-eds and humanities courses, and in those, there are already plenty of options to take "multi-cultural" type classes. The way things are set up, you'd almost have to go out of your way to completely avoid taking some kind of class about Native Americans and/or Africans/African-Americans. I think I tallied almost a semester's worth. There are really good odds that most of those SAE's on the bus took some kind of "African-American Studies" class. How'd that work out?

TDTW is correct about a lot, prolly most of the stuff he says. I will readily admit he comes up with head scratchers sometimes.

[KantoSooner]

No. Wanting the youth to be educated in subjects that will do them, and the country, the most economic good in life is not "fearful." It's smart.

.

Read my intervening. I think we would very well better serve the students, the state and the university itself by spinning off professional schools and cutting out all but what is needed for licensing. And leaving the university to education of those who are either idly wealthy or possessed of some strange drive for knowledge. It'd cost less, you'd get the same or greater volumes of trained workers and they'd be untroubled, mostly, by extraneous thoughts.

After all, modern physics was essentially invented by a second rate customs clerk. The airplane by a couple of rural bicycle mechanics. Academic training is not really necessary to accomplish things, even great things, in this life.

Now, that the personal computer was inspired through a combined study of ancient Hindu religious poetry, calligraphy and copious consumption of LSD whilst rambling around forests in Oregon, as classically collegiate as that sounds, should not be taken as a counter argument.

I mean, we do so well at predicting the future anyway, what could possibly go awry with an educational system that prepared students exclusively for the jobs of today?

One small example: let's say we get a true conservative government. (yes, probably a pipe dream, but indulge me). Said government does what true conservatives have been going about for at least three generations and actually succeeds in creating a tax system that both works and allows you to file on something the size of a post card. (and, such a system does exist. Check out Japan, never took me more than five minutes to fill out and file. Loved it.) What happens to all of our CPAs? Tax Lawyers? etc? The folks who went for one of the ultimate 'smart' jobs. One potential outcome would be, 'Outta work'. Middle aged. With zero reapplicable skills. Do I think that will happen? No. But it might. And it might be a nifty idea to not be overspecialized.

[KantoSooner]

The 2008 financial collapse was nothing but a huge picture of people not knowing what the f*ck they were signing or doing. .

And here I thought it was more about highly trained technocrats in huge banks and trading houses on Wall Street who were buying enormous 'asset packages' without the vaguest clue about what was in the bag and other highly specialized technocrats who were stuffing said 'asset packages' with piles of BS and selling them off to their half bright colleagues. All the while the highly trained, specialized and rigorously selected securities cops spent their time jailing Martha Stewart rather than following up on the repeated letters from mathematicians warning them that Bernie Madoff simply could not be generating the returns he was claiming. And trust me, Wall Street bankers are no one's idea of 'broad' people.
Huh. And to find out it was all on account of people signing revolving credit plans they didn't understand at Sears.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

And here I thought it was more about highly trained technocrats in huge banks and trading houses on Wall Street who were buying enormous 'asset packages' without the vaguest clue about what was in the bag and other highly specialized technocrats who were stuffing said 'asset packages' with piles of BS and selling them off to their half bright colleagues. All the while the highly trained, specialized and rigorously selected securities cops spent their time jailing Martha Stewart rather than following up on the repeated letters from mathematicians warning them that Bernie Madoff simply could not be generating the returns he was claiming. And trust me, Wall Street bankers are no one's idea of 'broad' people.
Huh. And to find out it was all on account of people signing revolving credit plans they didn't understand at Sears.

people and institutions getting rid of crap financial deals thrust upon the mortgage lenders by the democrats in congress. It doesn't read like that's what you said there, but who's surprised?

[Eielson]

A university education should, by definition, produce people who are broadly educated. Even if they go on to be brain surgeons, theoretical physicists, Broadway vocalists or historians of the Cult of Amun. That's what university does. In addition to your 'major' you learn other stuff. Hopefully to enrich your practice of your major; at the very least to give you some context.

In an ideal world, we would take all these music, art, and cultural classes, and we'd leave OU as "well-rounded" individuals. In practice, however, it doesn't work, and that part of the system has been broken for years. I learned a lot at OU about being a more "well-rounded" individual, but that didn't come from the classroom. It came from interacting with a diverse student population.

Let's do what actually works.

If you don't want that. If you have no 'need' for that: Don't go to a university.

It's not that simple. Plenty of people don't want that, and have no need for it, but are required to do it in order to get the kind of career they desire.

[Soonerfan88]

Many universities do require a multicultural class for graduation and it is usually something that is already fit into your core courses. As a business student (not at OU), I was required to take either Multicultural Communication or International Business because it's a global economy and you have to understand how to work in it.

A lot of this started with the baby boomers declaring their children would do better in life and made them get a college degree even if the kid didn't want or need one. Vo-techs certificates, or whatever they are called today, and Associate of Applied Science degrees are all that are necessary for 75% of the workforce.

TDTW and Kanto are both right about the 2008 meltdown.

[SoCalBigRed]

Striker's idea is good, but naive. With the assault on America being taught already in our schools, it would be likely an Overview of Multicultures class would be more of the same.

Unfortunately, this is the ugly, brutal truth of it.

I don't trust anything being taught about "America" in our collegiate system. Sorry.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
Striker's idea is good, but naive. With the assault on America being taught already in our schools, it would be likely an Overview of Multicultures class would be more of the same.

Unfortunately, this is the ugly, brutal truth of it.

I don't trust anything being taught about "America" in our collegiate system. Sorry.

I'm afraid in far too many cases nowadays, the assault takes place all the way through the school system K-12, as well as college.

[KantoSooner]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
Striker's idea is good, but naive. With the assault on America being taught already in our schools, it would be likely an Overview of Multicultures class would be more of the same.I'm afraid in far too many cases nowadays, the assault takes place all the way through the school system K-12, as well as college.

Okie Dokie. You vote? Vote for a different secretary of education. We have an open and responsive political system that runs the public schools. And it has been that way since we've had public schools. So, to lodge this sort of sour, systemic condemnation of our educational system is tantamount to a rejection of the entire American political experiment from the Founders on down.
I don't think you want to go there, but maybe you do. And, if so, please be so good as to propose, in some degree of detail, what you'd put in its place and how, with brute force being disallowed for stylistic reasons, you'd get there from here.

[badger]

Maybe it would help if the goal --- getting students to be outside their own comfort zone by learning and experiencing other cultures --- could be accomplished in a way that doesn't make students spend more time and money on additional course requirements.

Volunteer work, club membership, community outreach, attendance at museums, church, or fine arts events... make a big list of things students can do on a monthly basis to fulfill a "broaden your horizons" requirement. No additional tuition/fees required! No "hate America" indoctrination worries!

[graphster]

Fans of college football who hate most of the things that colleges represent and try to accomplish. Virtually no understanding of what higher education is, why it's important, and what role it plays in a liberal democratic society. Amazing.

Go root for the Dallas Cowboys whatever NFL team is most popular these days. You aren't fans of the University of Oklahoma, anyways. You're just here for the football, so go focus on professional football where that's all that matters anyways.

[graphster]

BTW, the "assault on America" isn't coming from the schools these days. It's coming from the Oklahoma state legislature and governor's office.

[KantoSooner]

the goal --- getting students to be outside their own comfort zone by learning and experiencing other cultures !

You obviously haven't been following the conversation, Badgie. There's a significant faction, perhaps even an overwhelming majority for all I know, who are of the opinion that this is not 'the goal' and should not be. Rather that higher ed should in no way challenge students to examine their values or beliefs instead operating in the mode of a tech manual or checklist. Preferably with as few 'meaningless' footnotes as possible.Optimally, perhaps, the whole thing could be done on-line in the form of work books.

[graphster]

You aren't the majority or a major faction. Virtually nobody thinks that. Thankfully.

[Tear Down This Wall]

BTW, the "assault on America" isn't coming from the schools these days. It's coming from the Oklahoma state legislature and governor's office.

Lay down the pipe and get into rehab, son.

[Tear Down This Wall]

This "getting the kids out of their comfort zone" is baloney. It is a cop out. If I go to work, mind my own business, pay my bills on time, and choose a safe place to raise my family, I'm doing the right thing. It isn't a "comfort zone" just because just because some faggoty academic wonk doesn't think there are enough gays and minorities around my family (although, my wife is Mexican - not Hispanic American - Mexican from Mexico; so, we get plenty of that nonsense from time to time).

The most laughable thing in these whole "comfort zone" arguments to me are that those making them completely ignore that fact that Asians come over here, take over a part of a town and become prosperous. The Asians never demand that we "study their culture" or "understand their culture." They could give a rip.

They are working their yellow butts off and banking the highest per capita income in the U.S. these days. And, they make sure their kids do the same at school. Ditto Indians, Pakistanis, and most of the recent African immigrants.

The only groups running around begging for people to "understand them" are the Black Americans and Hispanic Americans. If you sit in one place and just cry, "It's not fair!" all the time, you'll never get anywhere.

The Asians, Indians, new Africans, and Pakistanis are running circles around Black and Hispanic Americans, and much of White America as well. White America is full of lazy sluggards waiting for something to happen these days, and getting their increasingly-whiny as*ses kicked by the same Asians, Indians, new Africans, and Pakistanis.

Here's the only thing that needs to be understood: Shut up and study! And, study something that is actually useful to an employer, or that will give you the skills to start your own business - and employ the Black and Hispanic Americans who were too busy complaining about "fairness" to figure out how to own what you own.

[Tear Down This Wall]

And, I'll say more...

What of these black students who want to be "understood?" They are hypocrites. These are the type of people who would look at a successful Black American like Clarence Thomas and call him an "Uncle Tom." Why? Because he worked hard enough to get where he is, and doesn't brook the excuses of the black American blowhards like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

[KantoSooner]

Here's the only thing that needs to be understood: Shut up and study! And, study something that is actually useful to an employer, or that will give you the skills to start your own business.

Amen, brother!
But then have the common decency and self awareness to understand that you know nothing of government or philosophy, because you never studied them. So, when questions about governmental or political philosophy come up, kindly sit down, shut up and let those who studied such things take charge.

We had precisely such a system up to the advent of the GI Bill when, in a fit of pinko commie-ism, it was decided that maybe, just maybe, the average Joe, given the opportunity at higher education, could grasp the same broad learning that those folks with summer 'cottages' on Penobscot Bay did. Sorry to have wasted your time for the last 70 years. It was a silly idea anyway.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Amen, brother!
But then have the common decency and self awareness to understand that you know nothing of government or philosophy, because you never studied them. So, when questions about governmental or political philosophy come up, kindly sit down, shut up and let those who studied such things take charge.

We had precisely such a system up to the advent of the GI Bill when, in a fit of pinko commie-ism, it was decided that maybe, just maybe, the average Joe, given the opportunity at higher education, could grasp the same broad learning that those folks with summer 'cottages' on Penobscot Bay did. Sorry to have wasted your time for the last 70 years. It was a silly idea anyway.

Hey, dickbrain...my minor was Political Science, okay? Is that good enough for you? Just because I studied it - and, studied it more than most people - doesn't mean I have to check my brain at the door on behalf of people who shill for government programs and half-baked college courses, alright?

Further, I have a Juris Doctorate, so I understand how laws are made. Even setting aside the fact that I earned more PoliSci hours than most did, I also pulled back the academic curtain on Legal Oz and understand how it all works.

And, my wife is Mexican...technically, a minority. Although, from the day she came to America to now, she's never been one to sit around and wait for someone to "understand her culture." She and her sister hit the ground running and began a cleaning business that began with houses and evolved to cleaning businesses. And, they did ti barely speaking the language when they got here. And, in Mexico, the went to colleges that taught them business principals, not "understanding other cultures" or "how to whine like an American minority."

Therefore, I'm likely overqualified to speak. I'm the living and breathing example of taking in all of that PoliSci and Legal crap when I was young and thought it was important. Thank God experience in life and business gave me the common sense enough to eventually recognize that 99.9% of it was bullsh*t, that no one cares, and at the end of the day, you've got to put your dick to the grindstone and work to succeed if your last name isn't Kennedy, Bush, Gore, or Rockefeller.

So, you, sit down and shut up. I'm qualified enough academically to speak. I'm a business owner to boot, so I can speak as to what kids need to survive once they get out of school and have to support themselves. I've seen my wife and her sister succeed as immigrants in this country.

And, let me tell you, when I see a resume chock full of philosophy, humanities, history, government, and other like garbage, it goes into the trash can. I need - just as other businesses do - kids who understand business.

I don't have time to f*ck with kids and their philosophies. They change from generation to generation - but this remains the same: Bill are due when bills are due, for the amounts due. Can enough money be generated to cover them and the overhead of the business, with some profit over that to keep the business evolving and the doors open.

To do those things, I don't have to "understand different cultures." All I have to do is keep working my as*s off.