Sigma Alpha Epsilon...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

The bus was full of pledges on their way to the annual founder's day formal in OKC. Someone's date video's the song and then posted to U-Tube thinking it would be funny. And as you can clearly see in the video the faces of not only some of the fraternity pledges but the DATE's as well. Rest assured the names of the dates and their respective sororities will be discovered and retribution for them will follow.
Stupid, senseless and basically indefensible however if one thinks this type of behavior is unique to OU Greek life they are stupid and naive or both. Also, the recruit we lost committed to Alabama!! A bastion of civil rights and tolerance for those of all color (as long as you can play football).
Kick these idiots (the individuals) who did this off campus, and move on.

Thanks for the updat Katy... I figured it was some formal. Also, I knew the football recruit was a red herring. He was lokking elsewhere, this gave him a face saving way. I am sure Stoops was not unprepared for this kids choice.

BTW, I can't remember when, late 70s, early or late 80s, but didn't SAE get into bad trouble with either pledge hazing, drinking or road trip, something bad happening? I remember lots of For Sale signs being stolen around town and being put onto the SAE front lawn... Could be false memories as wel.

[Tear Down This Wall]

By extension and based on the same hysteria that led to Boren shutting down the entire fraternity he really needs to just shut down the entire University because I am sure there are other students there who have used the N word and/or otherwise harbor racists thoughts on occassion. I am familiar with where Boren started his professional career as an attorney and when he was there(Seminole) the area was not known as an area of racial tolerance. To be consistent, if Boren or anybody in his family has ever used the N word he needs to resign today!

I want complete interracial purity of thought, by gawd....of course if you're a minority/liberal(i.e. Joe Biden) you are excused from this requirement and are allowed to say anything derogatory you want about ANY race in your community.

Do I have it about right?

On a more serious note.....of course Boren had to react the way he did. To do otherwise would have been to invite the wrath of the PC gods down on his and OU's collective heads. Parents need to teach their kids that they need to assume that anything that they say that is caught on video will eventually end up in public. I know I certainly have impressed that on my kids. I also told them not to assume they weren't being videoed when they were in public.

Hopefully, the Pac-12 will see what a leftist patsy Boren is and extend us another invitation into their conference. Anything that gets us out of the Big 12. Taking down a pointless fraternity in the process would just be a bonus on top of it.

[SicEmBaylor]

Two expelled:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state...a4e963d74.html

Boren's a lawyer and OU's filled with lawyers and a fairly good law school, so I'm sure they know what they're doing.



So the real problem was that they said that SAE would never have an n-word member.... that was discriminatory and prohibited by law.

Lawyers are so tricky

This aspect of it makes me sick. I'm not defending what they said, but that should NOT be grounds for dismissal from the university entirely. Saying 'N1GGER' is not prohibited by law. See? Did I just break the law?

[BigTip]

The privacy thing is another thing that irks me about this deal. This "atrocity" was committed in private. Not on the radio, or at a talent show, or at a basketball game. This was not observed by a university official. It was almost as private a setting as one's living room.

It sort of makes me think of Russians ratting out their neighbors because they heard anti-party talk through the walls.
"This isn't Russia. Is this Russia? This isn't Russia Danny."

[BigTip]

This aspect of it makes me sick. I'm not defending what they said, but that should NOT be grounds for dismissal from the university entirely. Saying 'N1GGER' is not prohibited by law. See? Did I just break the law?

Exactly. Where does it stop?
"I hate Obama"
Is that enough to get expelled now?
"I hope the Sooners lose this week."
Is that hate speech (Yes! lol) But it is obviously being said, in Norman at least, to get a rise out of someone.

I just think a line has been crossed and the more people think about it the less of a "hero" Boren is going to be.

[aurorasooner]

I believe those stupid idiots in the video should be expelled

Now as far as the other guys in that house who weren't on that bus, and may having only been studying for midterms (big if here), I'm not sure throwing them out on street with just a couple of days notice and right before midterms is a credible course of action for the University Prez, unless of course the Univ has found them alternate acceptable living quarters, is paying their moving expenses, and is also refunding their March rent/dues, as it was probably due on the 1st.
Possibly a better course of action would have been for the Univ. to confiscate the house and treat it as dorm with appropriate security thru the rest of the semester, or until April 1st or at least until after spring break/midterms.
I don't know maybe the University gave them the some options, and they said "screw it" we're out of here.

[SicEmBaylor]

I believe those stupid idiots in the video should be expelled

Based on what, precisely? What law did they break? What policy were they in violation of? It was a private event, and what they said is not illegal distasteful though it may be.

Evidently the Washington Post agrees. If I were an attorney, I'd represent those kids pro-bono. They are going to sue the **** out of OU, and I hope they win.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...racist-speech/

[FaninAma]

Based on what, precisely? What law did they break? What policy were they in violation of? It was a private event, and what they said is not illegal distasteful though it may be.

Evidently the Washington Post agrees. If I were an attorney, I'd represent those kids pro-bono. They are going to sue the **** out of OU, and I hope they win.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...racist-speech/

Remember, this is the same man who did everything in his power to sweep the suicide bomber incident at the KSU game a few years back under the rug.

[Soonerjeepman]

I would imagine some of those kids' parents have some deep pockets and clout. That will result in some lawsuits against being kicked out so soon since they were not involved.

As far as free speech...yup. I'm sure the black frats has never referred to the white kids as "cracker", "whitey"..etc. The problem is white folks don't give a $hit about those names...

[aurorasooner]

I'm not really sure you have to break any law or even be convicted to be expelled from any university, just break the ambiguous student code.
I do agree with you that the University has probably opened themselves up for a lawsuit(s), especially from the students who were not involved, but were punished.
Those students who were involved probably just want to let it blow over, maybe transfer and/or just move on, though (since it's racial), as any such lawsuit would probably bring out ugly facts that these students (and especially their parents) would just like to remain hidden.
However, I did notice that Boren said the expelled students could appeal, if they wanted to.

[FaninAma]

And so it starts...Boren slammed for his hypocrisy:
http://www.foxsports.com/college-foo...iolence-031015

"Oklahoma Stands Tall Against Racism, Weak Against Violence"

You knew that one was coming.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm not really sure you have to break any law or even be convicted to be expelled from any university, just break the ambiguous student code.
I do agree with you that the University has probably opened themselves up for a lawsuit(s), especially from the students who were not involved, but were punished.
Those students who were involved probably just want to let it blow over, maybe transfer and/or just move on, though (since it's racial), as any such lawsuit would probably bring out ugly facts that these students (and especially their parents) would just like to remain hidden.
However, I did notice that Boren said the expelled students could appeal, if they wanted to.

What rule in the student code?

[SicEmBaylor]

And so it starts...Boren slammed for his hypocrisy:
http://www.foxsports.com/college-foo...iolence-031015

"Oklahoma Stands Tall Against Racism, Weak Against Violence"

You knew that one was coming.

Great piece.

[BigTip]

And so it starts...Boren slammed for his hypocrisy:
http://www.foxsports.com/college-foo...iolence-031015

"Oklahoma Stands Tall Against Racism, Weak Against Violence"

You knew that one was coming.

Look at my first post. I pointed out this hypocrisy. It's just so glaring in it's nature.

From the linked article:
"Punishing people for unpopular opinions is infinitely scarier to me than any unpopular opinion anyone could ever have."
A very good summary of why this entire incident makes me so uncomfortable.

[BigTip]

Evidently the Washington Post agrees. If I were an attorney, I'd represent those kids pro-bono. They are going to sue the **** out of OU, and I hope they win.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...racist-speech/

The credentials of the writer of this article:

Eugene Volokh teaches free speech law, religious freedom law, church-state relations law, a First Amendment Amicus Brief Clinic, and tort law, at UCLA School of Law, where he has also often taught copyright law, criminal law, and a seminar on firearms regulation policy.

Reading this article just makes me more mad and makes me realize that Boren, and the university, are going to end up paying a lot for their actions.

[aurorasooner]

What rule in the student code?

I don't really have time to do your homework for you right now, but there's a pretty good thread on it over at TD OT lounge. I think this is the link, and it was on page 6 or 7, about half way down.


http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p...r-racist-video

[SicEmBaylor]

I don't really have time to do your homework for you right now, but there's a pretty good thread on it over at TD OT lounge. I think this is the link, and it was on page 6 or 7, about half way down.


http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p...r-racist-video

2014-2015

VI. Student Responsibilities

Prohibited Conduct
These definitions include, but are not limited to, the following:
1. Abusive conduct: Unwelcome conduct that is sufficiently severe and pervasive that it alters the
conditions of education or employment and creates an environment that a reasonable person would
find intimidating, harassing or humiliating. These circumstances could include the frequency of the
conduct, its severity, and whether it is threatening or humiliating. This includes physically abusing
a person or holding a person against his or her will. Simple teasing, offhanded comments and
isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not amount to abusive conduct.

That's a pretty flimsy basis for expulsion, but I can see how it could be used and interpreted as the basis for the expelling two students. HOWEVER, here's another issue: Does the Student Code of Conduct apply when a student is neither on university property nor attending a university sponsored function?

[Sooner8th]

This aspect of it makes me sick. I'm not defending what they said, but that should NOT be grounds for dismissal from the university entirely. Saying 'N1GGER' is not prohibited by law. See? Did I just break the law?

You really are one ignorant hypocritical bigot. You and your states rights, sons of the confederacy and war of northern aggression - btw you never did respond to the timing issue you have with lincoln calling up the troops three days AFTER southern traitors attacked Fort Sumter. You had a meltdown freak out when you thought someone was insulting your "southern patriots". You want everyone to be PC with your beloved south but not with shouting the n-word? HUH.............

[SicEmBaylor]

You really are one ignorant hypocritical bigot. You and your states rights, sons of the confederacy and war of northern aggression - btw you never did respond to the timing issue you have with lincoln calling up the troops three days AFTER southern traitors attacked Fort Sumter. You had a meltdown freak out when you thought someone was insulting your "southern patriots". You want everyone to be PC with your beloved south but not with shouting the n-word? HUH.............

What fact am I ignorant of? I'm also neither hypocritical nor am I a bigot. They are racist pieces of ****, and there is no defending what they said. What bothers me is that you can expel someone for what they said at a public university. I've questioned the legal or university statutory basis for their expulsion, and I believe it sets a dangerous precedent. Expelling someone for exercising their free speech, regardless of the fact that it was racist speech, is disturbing to me. And, yes, I would defend them if I were an attorney.

Now, I don't remember your specific question. I get bored with threads after awhile, and I just stop reading them, but I promise I'm not ducking an argument. I'm more than happy to answer any question you may have. Yes, Lincoln called up troops after Confederate forces fired on a Federal garrison sitting on sovereign South Carolina territory after it had been re-enforced with troops and supplies.

But that's getting off subject here...

[Sooner8th]

What fact am I ignorant of? I'm also neither hypocritical nor am I a bigot. They are racist pieces of ****, and there is no defending what they said. What bothers me is that you can expel someone for what they said at a public university. I've questioned the legal or university statutory basis for their expulsion, and I believe it sets a dangerous precedent. Expelling someone for exercising their free speech, regardless of the fact that it was racist speech, is disturbing to me. And, yes, I would defend them if I were an attorney.Now, I don't remember your specific question. I get bored with threads after awhile, and I just stop reading them, but I promise I'm not ducking an argument. I'm more than happy to answer any question you may have. Yes, Lincoln called up troops after Confederate forces fired on a Federal garrison sitting on sovereign South Carolina territory after it had been re-enforced with troops and supplies.But that's getting off subject here...

You are ignorant of the fact the the word your so gleefully used is used to subjugate and oppress a group of people for more than a hundred years. You beloved southerners started a war over feeling subjugated and oppressed. You are a hypocrite, got your shorts in a wad and proceeded to tell the poster not to insult to the "southern patriots", yet you would defend these guys freedom of speech. Yes you can expel someone a public university for what they said - it is called a code of conduct that you agree to when you enroll. Just because you are going to a public university does not mean you can say anything you want. Funny how blacks were prohibited from attending your beloved south's state supported universities - even though they paid taxes. Of course you don't remember my question, you stated the reason the south attacked sumter was because lincoln called up 75k troops when he in fact called them up three days after your beloved traitors attacked the United States of America. The fort is and was sovereign UNITED STATES OF AMERICA territory and it had been re-enforced with troops and supplies because it was well known your traitors were going to attack it. Let's get one thing clear for you - you live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Not some states that got together and have rights that supersede the federal government, the Supremacy Clause a provision in Article Six, Clause 2 of our constitution makes that clear.