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  1. #21
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member FaninAma's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rock on sooner View Post
    I was stationed in northwest Pakistan during the 7 Day War...your dad was correct to
    have a worried look...there was a ton of stuff to be worried about...at every overseas
    station in my field of endeavor (USAFSS) there was high alert and an inordinate amount
    of electronic traffic. It was at that time I became convinced that the IDF was, pound for
    pound, the finest fighting force on the planet. The Egyptians didn't have a prayer.

    Having said that, I don't believe bombing Iran is the answer. What I think is more
    plausible is what the P5+1 is trying to do. If Iran can be slowed, then I think the
    Mossad can and would decapitate their scientific community, as has been done to
    a small extent already. At least that is more desirable than more all-out war, into
    which we would surely be drawn.

    It is certainly obvious that Obama comes up short in a number of areas but trying
    to avoid another major conflict is not one of them.
    Kudos for your service. Actually it was my uncle. Neat guy. He worked a lot with General Hrzosky(has a gate at Tinker named after him.)

    The amazing thing about that war was the Arab countries led by Egypt and Nasser attacked Israel first. I remember being out at Draper Lake (which is just South of Tinker) collecting rose rocks and watching aircraft after aircraft after aircraft taking off and flying over us.

    I also remember the IDF commando raid on Entebbe. That was an amazing operation. I know a lot of people are pointing to the fact that Netanyahu claimed Iraq and Saddam Hussein had WMDI's and the fact that none turned up is a reason to discredit him. I think Israeli intelligence knew exactly what was going on in Iraq. I think that in the runnup to the Iraq invasion in 2001/2001 that Hussein sent most of the weapons to Syria hence Syria's large stockpile of WMDIs/chemical weapons.

    Bombing Iran is not the answer. The Arab countries are going to have to figure a way to end the sectarian war going on in their culture. The west cannot do it for them. The hatred of the West and Israel is essentially attempts by dictators in the region to redirect the hatred from this sectarian conflict away from themselves and toward outside targets....and heaven knows we have done a lot of things that make that task easy.
    Last edited by FaninAma; 3/5/2015 at 02:25 PM.
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  2. #22
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member FaninAma's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooner8th View Post
    You and yours are laughable. Why is it always when a democrat takes office immediately the charge of immaturity is leveled. Just another old worn out rightwingnut talking point.
    Sorry, but there is NOTHING in Obama's background that would give me any confidence that he can deal with the ME crisis. Further, there is nothing in his background that would ever allow me to give my blessing to my son to join the military with him as CIC. He is a lightweight and he is out of his depth.
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  3. #23
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Sooner in Tampa's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma View Post
    Sorry, but there is NOTHING in Obama's background that would give me any confidence that he can deal with the ME crisis. Further, there is nothing in his background that would ever allow me to give my blessing to my son to join the military with him as CIC. He is a lightweight and he is out of his depth.
    But, but, but Barry killed Bin Laden!!!!


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  4. #24
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSoonerThanLater View Post
    .alot of people said the same thing before getting involved in WWII..
    We only got involved in WWII because 1)Japan directly attacked the United States and 2)Germany declared war on us. Otherwise, we would have had no business getting involved in that war either.

  5. #25
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by champions77 View Post
    Israel has been our most steadfast ally for decades and is the most stable democracy that exists in the middle east, and we are going to treat them the same as other countries that have been breeding grounds for terrorists that have been responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans?

    And you don't feel the need to worry about Iran until "after" they start lobbing nuclear missiles in our direction? I don't know the last time I have read anything so devoid of rational thought or common sense.

    There is a really good reason that we have not had to fight a war on our soil. We take the fight to the homeland of those intent on doing us harm.
    They take billion in taxpayer funds to subsidize their military, they routinely spy on the United States, and their lobbying efforts here in the United States are disgraceful. They are not our most 'steadfast ally' by any means. No country in the middle east is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans -- terrorist organizations are responsible for that. Furthermore, those thousands of Americans are dead in large part because of our relationship with Israel.

  6. #26
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma View Post
    I assume you are not a big fan of the Book of Revelations. If Israel feels there is an imminent nuclear attack planned against them they will strike quickly and fiercely. I know you weren't around during the 7 Day War when Israel had Egypt's army surrounded in the Sinai(sp) but the world was onthe brinkof all out war. My uncle supervised the maintenance of the B-52 fleet at Tinker. There was massive mobilization of the B-52's and AWACs. I was 9 at the time and asked him why so many aircraft were flying around. He didn't answer but had a very worried look on his face. He did explain about 10 years later. I think the lack of historic perspective and overall naivette about the ME by Obama significantly increases the risk of a serious escalation of the conflict. Electing an ideologue with no leadership experience at this time in history may turn out to be a disaster. Thank you low information voters.
    I don't think our foreign policy should be conducted on the basis of Biblical prophecy and, in any case, I'm not a Christian.

  7. #27

    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    They take billion in taxpayer funds to subsidize their military, they routinely spy on the United States, and their lobbying efforts here in the United States are disgraceful. They are not our most 'steadfast ally' by any means. No country in the middle east is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans -- terrorist organizations are responsible for that. Furthermore, those thousands of Americans are dead in large part because of our relationship with Israel.
    Those innocent countries harbor these monsters knowing full well what they do and what they're about, and if you think that there would not still be terrorists groups out there intent on killing us, even if we had no relationship with Israel, then you sir have a sad case of naivety and delusion.

    Any credibility you had on this board was removed when you stated that we should not worry about Iran until they actually attack us. Most recognize it would probably be too late by then. That is a prescription for our ultimate demise.
    Last edited by champions77; 3/5/2015 at 04:01 PM.
    "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"

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  8. #28
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member FaninAma's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    I don't think our foreign policy should be conducted on the basis of Biblical prophecy and, in any case, I'm not a Christian.
    I forgot you are a Deist. I'm not a big believer in the prophecies found in Revelations, either. But it sure is a bit spooky to see these ancient texts referring in detail to a place and scenario place that descibes an immense military showdown. It also describes how the Jewish people will be isolated and surrounded by their enemies, a process that seems to be taking place today.

    And you may think that what happens to Israel won't affect you or your family but I can guarantee you that a full out attack on Israel will result in a military confrontation that will effect every man, woman and child on earth.

    And if Israel thinks they are going to be annihlated they will institute their own version of mutually assured total destruction. They have over a 100 nuclear warheads and at least one long range nuclear submarine that can stay submerged for months after the initial attack.
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  9. #29
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by champions77 View Post
    Those innocent countries harbor these monsters knowing full well what they do and what they're about, and if you think that there would not still be terrorists groups out there intent on killing us, even if we had no relationship with Israel, then you sir have a sad case of naivety and delusion.

    Any credibility you had on this board was removed when you stated that we should not worry about Iran until they actually attack us. Most recognize it would probably be too late by then. That is a prescription for our ultimate demise.
    I didn't say there wouldn't be terror groups if we had no relationship with Israel. I said our relationship with Israel exacerbates the issue. The other major contributing factor to anti-American sentiment and jihad is American interference in the domestic affairs of Muslim nations which is precisely what we do when we presume to dictate terms to sovereign nation. Iran is a sovereign nation with rights. Until and unless Iran uses its weapons against us, we have no standing in demanding that they not pursuit this weapon system or that weapon system. It's the height of arrogance for the United States to presume to tell a sovereign nation what it may or may not do.

    There's an utterly bizarre line of thinking that just because Iran has a nuclear bomb that they intend to use it. Pakistan has yet to use theirs.

  10. #30
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member FaninAma's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    I didn't say there wouldn't be terror groups if we had no relationship with Israel. I said our relationship with Israel exacerbates the issue. The other major contributing factor to anti-American sentiment and jihad is American interference in the domestic affairs of Muslim nations which is precisely what we do when we presume to dictate terms to sovereign nation. Iran is a sovereign nation with rights. Until and unless Iran uses its weapons against us, we have no standing in demanding that they not pursuit this weapon system or that weapon system. It's the height of arrogance for the United States to presume to tell a sovereign nation what it may or may not do.

    There's an utterly bizarre line of thinking that just because Iran has a nuclear bomb that they intend to use it. Pakistan has yet to use theirs.
    So you are okay with Israel doing whatever they need to do to protect themselves after we leave them isolated and alone?

    Pakistan isn't constantly being attacked and threatened by a bunch of religious fanatics, either.
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  11. #31
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Turd_Ferguson's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma View Post
    I forgot you are a Deist. I'm not a big believer in the prophecies found in Revelations, either. But it sure is a bit spooky to see these ancient texts referring in detail to a place and scenario place that descibes an immense military showdown. It also describes how the Jewish people will be isolated and surrounded by their enemies, a process that seems to be taking place today.

    And you may think that what happens to Israel won't affect you or your family but I can guarantee you that a full out attack on Israel will result in a military confrontation that will effect every man, woman and child on earth.

    And if Israel thinks they are going to be annihlated they will institute their own version of mutually assured total destruction. They have over a 100 nuclear warheads and at least one long range nuclear submarine that can stay submerged for months after the initial attack.
    It looked better when you typed ASSRED instead of assured.

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  12. #32
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma View Post
    So you are okay with Israel doing whatever they need to do to protect themselves after we leave them isolated and alone?
    Absolutely, yes.

  13. #33
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member FaninAma's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    Absolutely, yes.
    Then we should have never stopped them from wiping out Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria in the 7 Day War. Once we did that we sort of put ourselves in the position of not leaving them vulnerable to the threats of these countries and their allies in the future...although it looks like Egypt is actually forming a strategic alliance with Israel to help thwart the threat of radical Islam to their country.
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  14. #34
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma View Post
    Then we should have never stopped them from wiping out Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria in the 7 Day War. Once we did that we sort of put ourselves in the position of not leaving them vulnerable to the threats of these countries and their allies in the future...although it looks like Egypt is actually forming a strategic alliance with Israel to help thwart the threat of radical Islam to their country.
    The 7 Days War was some time ago. Are we supposed to subsidize their defense in perpetuity? Now, it is a reasonable argument to point out we have likely already stopped them from taking out Iran's nuclear program -- a move that Israel is perfectly entitled to take. At some point, we need to stop doubling down on past mistakes.

  15. #35

    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    I didn't say there wouldn't be terror groups if we had no relationship with Israel. I said our relationship with Israel exacerbates the issue. The other major contributing factor to anti-American sentiment and jihad is American interference in the domestic affairs of Muslim nations which is precisely what we do when we presume to dictate terms to sovereign nation. Iran is a sovereign nation with rights. Until and unless Iran uses its weapons against us, we have no standing in demanding that they not pursuit this weapon system or that weapon system. It's the height of arrogance for the United States to presume to tell a sovereign nation what it may or may not do.

    There's an utterly bizarre line of thinking that just because Iran has a nuclear bomb that they intend to use it. Pakistan has yet to use theirs.
    Sovereign nation with rights? What rights, the right to export terrorism around the world killing thousands in their path? I'm sorry but when you conduct yourself as they have done since 1979, you relinquish your rights, you no longer are a Nation in good standing, given the benefit of the doubt in world issues.

    They have screamed to the heavens their intentions of destroying both Israel...and the United States for years. And some, like you and our weenie President, give them the benefit of the doubt, when their actions and our experiences with them for the last 36 years, raises a multitude of doubts.

    So no, they should be treated as an enemy that you cannot trust. Trust is something you earn over time. Show us that somehow you are now different, and then we will give you some credibility.
    "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"

    -----Winston Churchill

  16. #36
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma View Post
    Then we should have never stopped them from wiping out Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria in the 7 Day War. Once we did that we sort of put ourselves in the position of not leaving them vulnerable to the threats of these countries and their allies in the future...although it looks like Egypt is actually forming a strategic alliance with Israel to help thwart the threat of radical Islam to their country.
    Realizing full well this is 20/20 hindsight, given the conditions of the ME
    48 years later, we should have! The Suez Canal would never be an issue,
    Assad would be a camel jockey in the desert somewhere, Jordan's king would
    be flying attack helicopters for Isreal, Lebanon and Palestine would still be a
    gleam in Iran's eye, the Saudis tremble when Bibi burps and Iran would be
    a get-out-of-jail card in the overall game of the Oil Monopoly game that the
    Great Satan plays. Now, by gawd, how's that for fantasy!? Makes as much
    sense as some of the nonsense in this thread.....:-)

  17. #37
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member FaninAma's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    The 7 Days War was some time ago. Are we supposed to subsidize their defense in perpetuity? Now, it is a reasonable argument to point out we have likely already stopped them from taking out Iran's nuclear program -- a move that Israel is perfectly entitled to take. At some point, we need to stop doubling down on past mistakes.
    Although I like Rand Paul I am not willing to go into full isolationist mode. I still support the NATO agreement as well as our support for Japan and Taiwan in the South China Sea area.
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  18. #38
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 SoonerProphet's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ard-line-mind/

    The speech on Tuesday really amounted to little more than a list of hard-liners’ unrealistic demands and their impractical alternatives to the current policy. As they see it, Iran must give up practically everything, and Iran will do this if it is put under sufficient pressure. If Iran has failed to give up everything, this “reasoning” goes, that must be only because there has not yet been enough pressure, and so they always favor more coercive measures no matter how often those measures have failed to change regime behavior in the past. They insist on demanding total capitulation from the other side, but fail to recognize that insisting on maximalist gains gives Iran every incentive to develop its nuclear program as it sees fit. Demanding capitulation from the other side naturally provokes greater resistance, and dictating terms to nationalists is typically a guaranteed way to ensure rejection of terms.

  19. #39
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerProphet View Post
    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ard-line-mind/

    The speech on Tuesday really amounted to little more than a list of hard-liners’ unrealistic demands and their impractical alternatives to the current policy. As they see it, Iran must give up practically everything, and Iran will do this if it is put under sufficient pressure. If Iran has failed to give up everything, this “reasoning” goes, that must be only because there has not yet been enough pressure, and so they always favor more coercive measures no matter how often those measures have failed to change regime behavior in the past. They insist on demanding total capitulation from the other side, but fail to recognize that insisting on maximalist gains gives Iran every incentive to develop its nuclear program as it sees fit. Demanding capitulation from the other side naturally provokes greater resistance, and dictating terms to nationalists is typically a guaranteed way to ensure rejection of terms.
    American Conservative magazine hits the nail on the head -- as usual.

  20. #40
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu speech to Congress disrepectul and racist!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma View Post
    Although I like Rand Paul I am not willing to go into full isolationist mode. I still support the NATO agreement as well as our support for Japan and Taiwan in the South China Sea area.
    Don't give me that isolationist crap. You're better and smarter than to repeat that nonsense. Rand Paul is not an isolationist. There are no isolationists in the United States, to my knowledge, and certainly none in government. Rand Paul leans toward non-interventionism while his father is fully non-interventionist.

    What "isolationism" really means to the neoconservatives who repeat that lie is that non-interventionists oppose military adventurism. It's ironic to me that the same people who claim Paul is an "isolationist" are the same people who want to retain the Cuban embargo and isolate Iran.

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