heh...Originally Posted by olevetonahill
heh...
So here is NBC, the ones that rigged a Chevy pickup with the side mounted gas tanks with a device to insure that an explosion would result from a side impact, feigning outrage at Brian Williams lie, but refuse to hold BHO to the same standards, time and time again? Probably influenced Brian Williams to exaggerate the truth a tad. Sure makes for a lot more interesting story telling on Letterman.
When the lies of Bill Clinton were exposed and his fans reasoned it away with "I voted for the President of the United States, not the Pastor of the United States". Nice. As if someone that lies one time about one thing, would not lie about something else is naivety at the highest degree.
A the next press conference, would it not be nice to have a reporter when questioning BHO preface his remarks by saying "Now Mr. President it is a proven fact that you are a liar. So why would you expect us to believe you now as to this particular issue?" The fact that BHO, despite the fact that he has been caught in numerous lies, has a 40% approval rating? Standards and values have been compromised in this country. And it does not serve us well. We can only pray that we'll vote for the person that is the most trustworthy in 2016, the one that allows his past to be examined and has a history of surrounding himself with honorable people of unquestionable integrity. Not the one that gives the best speech, or is perceived as the "coolest".
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
Too bad the right doesn't hold faux "news" and republican presidents to the same standard. Fox News apologizes 4 times for inaccurate comments about Muslims in Europe http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/18/medi...slam-comments/
Hey at least they Apologize. What inaccurate comments did they make about Muslims in Europe?
How many times has your hero apologized for the lies and misinformation he has perpetuated during his 6 plus years? You do agree that without his multiple lies, his signature legislation, the ACA, would have never been passed, right? What a legacy. And some would say that morals and integrity are not important considerations when choosing a President? Maybe the most ignorant thing I've ever heard.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
You don't know? This was a HUGE story - look it up. I gave you a link. NBC and williams both apologized, is it good enough like the faux "news" apology is? obama did apologize for the some losing their insurance. Tell me - has bush or ANY republican apologized for saying tax cuts wouldn't cause deficits? Has bush or ANY republican apologized for lying about everything to do with iraq? NO....
I am not going to do to great lengths to defend W. He did spend money like a liberal democrat. He certainly was not a conservative. Neither is Jed. The tax cuts were his way of stimulating the economy, no worse than the deficits created by your hero, as a matter of fact BHO will have created ten trillion in debt in 8 years, W four. Both created way too much debt.
As to W lying about Iraq? So W was the dumbest President in US History, at least that's what the left claims, but was smart enough to hoodwink Congress and the American people into going to War? Sorry but that dog doesn't hunt. It's an absurd theory, not based on fact. Even before W was President, many dems are on record as stating that Saddam cannot be allowed to have WMD's. Intell confirmed this.
We should never have to apologize in fighting evil. Saddam, using poison gas, a WMD, murdered thousands of Kurds in Northern Iraq. Maybe the story that should be told today is how our Commander in Chief, in giving our play book to the enemy, by giving out troop withdrawal time frames and what we would do or not do, allowed ISIS (the JV Team) to gain a strategic stronghold in Iraq, now occupying thousands of square miles, effectively giving away any advantages we had gained from our previous deployment. All because he was going to placate his leftist base, regardless of what negative consequences that would result. A residual force, left behind, would have prevented what we have today.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
You mean like a conservative republican. In constant 2009 dollars reagan increased spending by 80%, bush 1 by 29% over 4 years, clinton the same 29% but over 8 years, bush II 66% over eight years, obama only 17.5% over 6 years. You have got to be kidding me. NONE of those reasons were given to invade iraq. NONE. Iraq has WMD's we know that for a FACT. Mushroom clouds. I see you are following jeb's talking points - my brother was right and it is all obama's fault. unfvckingbelievable............................... ..............
That narrative has been ignored by the left forever. There was little doubt in A LOT of peoples heads about Saddam and WMDs and they were not just Americans!! I think Saddam WANTED the world to think he had WMDs so there would be a certain amount of fear in dealing with Iraq.
There is a hell of a lot of evil in this world, and it is neither necessary nor our responsibility to rid the world of it. Removing Saddam was one of the worst Presidential decisions in American history. Saddam was a secular leader who kept the radical jihadists in his country under control brutal and evil though he may have been. Everything that has happened in Iraq since is a direct consequence of that initial decision to invade despite the fact that so many now blame ISIS on Obama. The man deserves universal scorn and criticism, but not on that issue.
Nobody gave the Jihadists our 'playbook.' That's as dumb as it is asinine. They have a very long memory, they're very patient, and it's their territory. It doesn't matter a hill of beans whether we announced a pullout date or not -- we created a vacuum in Iraq the Jihadists have been more than capable, predictably, of filling. Unless you believe that the United States should remain deployed in Iraq in-perpetuity, this is a problem that was created when the first American soldier touched Iraqi soil in 2003. And if you think we ever had an 'advantage' in Iraq then you're delusional. There was no lasting advantage; there was only an unsustainable short term advantage.
If you do not believe that announcing our future intentions publicly in a war zone is not giving our enemy an advantage, then you are lacking serious common sense. You keep putting it all on Bush. And I am certainly not a "Bush apologist", but you conveniently forget how many people at the time, were intent on removing Saddam Hussein from power, both parties. When the war dragged on, it all of a sudden became "Bush's War" as if he was the only one in our government in favor or it.
By the way, I don't think it is necessary to throw out personal attacks on here because I may possess an opposing view than yours. You remind me some of 8th who resorts to personal attacks when disagreeing with someone. Pretty weak shtick.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
AGAIN - none of these reasons were given at the time. It was all about he HAD WMD's and mushroom clouds.
What do you mean sudden became "Bush's War"? It was ginned up by cheney and bush! The whole damn rotten thing.
Pre-War Quotes from Democrats
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998. *
"Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them."
President Clinton, Jan. 27, 1998. * video
"Fateful decisions will be made in the days and weeks ahead. At issue is nothing less than the fundamental question of whether or not we can keep the most lethal weapons known to mankind out of the hands of an unreconstructed tyrant and aggressor who is in the same league as the most brutal dictators of this century."
Sen. Joe Biden (D, DE), Feb. 12, 1998 *
"It is essential that a dictator like Saddam not be allowed to evade international strictures and wield frightening weapons of mass destruction. As long as UNSCOM is prevented from carrying out its mission, the effort to monitor Iraqi compliance with Resolution 687 becomes a dangerous shell game. Neither the United States nor the global community can afford to allow Saddam Hussein to continue on this path."
Sen. Tom Daschle (D, SD), Feb. 12, 1998 *
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeleine Albright, Feb. 18, 1998. *
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb. 18, 1998. *
"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998. *
"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998. *
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeleine Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999. *
"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL) and others, Dec, 5, 2001. *
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002. *
"We know that he has stored away secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002. *
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002. *
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002. *
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002. *
"My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. I'm a co-sponsor of the bipartisan resolution that's presently under consideration in the Senate. Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave threat to America and our allies..."
John Edwards (D, NC), Oct. 7, 2002 * video
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002. *
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002. *
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002. *
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members.... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct. 10, 2002. * video
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002. *
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003. *
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
You are desperately trying to re-write history. Those first ones have nothing to do with attacking iraq. The rest of them was listening to cheney's cherry picked and made up intel. Hell, they even fooled colin powell, who in turn fooled me. It was a war ginned up by cheney and bush under false pretenses - PERIOD.
8th, I know you are desperately trying to lay 100% on Bush, and Bush was the driving force in going to war, agreed. But to try and remove the dems from any culpability in the matter is a silly exercise on your part. History has a way of leaving a lasting footprint. Sometimes it favors you looking back...and sometimes it does not. The fact is that a lot of dems, even way before W, wanted Saddam gone. Their words are proof of that, and they're well documented.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
I am desperately trying to lay 100% on Bush? Can't even use a new word? It is a 100% on bush. There is a HUGE difference between wanting him gone and willing to go to war to do it. It's like being married and wanting to sleep with someone else and doing it. Again - bush's war. PERIOD - no debate.
You mean stand up there giving speech after speech, talking about how we cannot allow Saddam to have WMD's, but it takes someone else who has a set to do what they could only talk about?
Must be in the democrat DNA. I don't know how many "tough guy" speeches your hero has given, a guess by now you have conveniently forgotten the "red line" speech on Syria that Putin had to bail him out on. BHO is a very scary guy to have leading us right now. Your adversaries sense when you are weak, and they will be their most aggressive when they see or sense that.
Gosh knowing what we now see in Putin, I wonder what BHO was promising Putin through Medvedev that night on the stage when the live mike picked up BHO's promise to Putin? Do what you want, we won't interfere? Putin figured out BHO was weak when he cancelled the missile defense system for Eastern Europe that was promised by W. I think he did that the first week he was in office. That was followed by the "apology tour" right? What a show of strength.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
For those that have forgotten what a horrible despot Saddam was;
Life in Iraq under Saddam
On July 8, 1982 Saddam Hussein drove into the city of Dujail, Iraq. After six men attempted to ambush the dictator, thousands of Dujail residents were thrown in jail and tortured. At least 148 men and boys were executed on orders signed by Saddam Hussein. link video
Saddam pursued a long-term program of persecuting the Iraqi Kurds, including the use of chemical weapons. During the Iran/Iraq war, Saddam appointed his cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid, as his deputy in the north. In 1987-88, al-Majid led the "Anfal" campaign of attacks on Kurdish villages. Amnesty International estimates that more than 100,000 Kurds were killed or disappeared during this period. link link
As well as ensuring his absolute control inside Iraq, Saddam tried to make Iraq the dominant power of the region. In pursuit of these objectives he led Iraq into two wars of aggression against neighbors, the Iran-Iraq war and the invasion of Kuwait. link link
On June 27, 1993 Vice President Al Gore said, "But there's no question about the fact that he and his Baathist regime in Iraq rule by terror and atrocity, and they have intimidated the people of Iraq by imposing such suffering upon them to let him remain in power. He tortures people, kills people and so he has remained in power and that's unfortunate." link
The Oil-for-Food Program was established by the United Nations in 1995 and it terminated in late 2003. Its intent was to allow Iraq to sell oil on the world market in exchange for food, medicine, and other humanitarian needs. The program was introduced as a response to arguments that ordinary Iraqi citizens were inordinately affected by the economic sanctions aimed at demilitarizing Saddam Hussein's Iraq, imposed in the wake of the first Gulf War. Under UN supervision, the Oil-for-Food program became a major financial scandal allowing Saddam to pocket billions of dollars through kickbacks and other illicit deals. In addition to the billions of dollars Saddam received illegally under Oil-for-Food, many more billions were gained by smuggling oil to neighboring countries outside of the program. During this period, the United States Navy searched thousands of ships bound for or departing Iraq as part of its Maritime Intercept Operations and the enforcement of U.N. economic sanctions. link link
The Baath Party was the only legal political party in Iraq. It pervaded all aspects of Iraqi life. Membership, was necessary for self advancement and conferred benefits from the regime. link link
Army officers were an important part of the government's network of informers. Suspicion that officers had ambitions other than the service of the President led to immediate execution. It was routine for Saddam to take pre-emptive action against those who he believed might conspire against him. link link
Human rights abuses under Saddam:
4000 prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib Prison in 1984.
3000 prisoners were executed at the Mahjar Prison between 1993 and 1998.
About 2500 prisoners were executed between 1997 and 1999 in a "prison cleansing" campaign.
122 male prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in February/ March 2000. A further 23 political prisoners were executed there in October 2001.
In October 2000, dozens of women accused of prostitution were beheaded without any judicial process. Some were accused for political reasons.
Women prisoners at Mahjar were routinely raped by their guards.
Methods of torture used in Iraqi jails include using electric drills to mutilate hands, pulling out fingernails, knife cuts, sexual attacks and 'official rape'.
Prisoners at the Qurtiyya Prison in Baghdad and elsewhere were kept in metal boxes the size of tea chests. If they did not confess they were left to die. link link link
Saddam issued a series of decrees establishing severe penalties for criminal offences. These include amputation, branding, cutting off ears, and other forms of mutilation. Those found guilty of slandering the President could have their tongue removed. video link
Much of the recent controversy surrounding Abu Ghraib has made only vague reference to the prison's nightmarish past. Under Saddam Hussein, some thirty thousand people were executed there, and countless more were tortured and mutilated, returning to Iraqi society as visible evidence of the brutality of Baathist rule instead of being lost to the anonymity of mass graves.
video video link link
Saddam's son Udayy maintained a private torture chamber known as the Red Room in a building on the banks of the Tigris disguised as an electricity installation. He ordered the Iraq football team to be caned on the soles of the feet for losing a World Cup match. He created a militia in 1994 which used swords to execute victims outside their own homes. He has personally executed dissidents, for instance in the Shia uprising at Basra which followed the Gulf War. video video link
Members of Saddam's family were also subject to persecution. Some 40 of Saddam's relatives, including women and children, were killed. link link
The Fedayeen (Uday Hussein's militia) assassinated opposition figures, broke the backs of those accused of lying to the government and chopped off tongues, fingers, hands and heads. Sometimes victims were decapitated and the heads were delivered to their families. link link
On September 17, 2002 President George W. Bush wrote, "The great struggles of the twentieth century between liberty and totalitarianism ended with a decisive victory for the forces of freedom—and a single sustainable model for national success: freedom, democracy, and free enterprise. In the twenty-first century, only nations that share a commitment to protecting basic human rights and guaranteeing political and economic freedom will be able to unleash the potential of their people and assure their future prosperity. People everywhere want to be able to speak freely; choose who will govern them; worship as they please; educate their children—male and female; own property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom are right and true for every person, in every society—and the duty of protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages." While the President was not specifically referring to Iraq this September 2002 National Security Strategy report defined the foreign policy goals of the Bush Administration (sometimes called the Bush Doctrine). The National Security Strategy was updated in March 2006. link link
On March 11, 2003 ABC's Nightline reported that thousands of Marsh Arabs were murdered by Saddam Hussein. Marsh Arabs live in an area along the southern border of Iran and Iraq believed by many to be biblical site of the Garden of Eden. During the 1990's the wetlands were drained for two primary reasons. Draining of the wetlands allowed Saddam to seize political control over the region and it also gave improved access for oil exploration. ABC reported that since 1991 an estimated 100,000 Iraqi Marsh Arabs had become refugees in Iran. video
On April 9, 2003 U.S. forces entered the city of Bagdad. CBS News reported, "With the regime's feared security forces nowhere to be seen, Iraqis dared to cheer U.S. troops and attack the symbols of Saddam's rule. They danced in the streets, waving rifles, palm fronds and flags, and defaced posters of the longtime Iraqi president..." link video
In October of 2003, an Iraqi torture tape was obtained by the media. On the tape, what appear to be Fedayeen Saddam members and Republican Guard troops are shown administering cruel punishments, including chopping off fingers, cutting off tongues, breaking a wrist with a heavy stick, and throwing people off a multi-story building. Also depicted is a beheading by sword, which takes several attempts to complete. video link link
In July of 2004, the Iraqi National Olympic Committee put on display torture devices which were used by Uday Hussein to punish soccer players who failed to perform to expectations. Journalists were shown medieval-style torture equipment, including an "iron maiden-like" casket with metal spikes fixed to the inside. Talip Mutan, an Olympic Committee official said, "There were torture camps of Uday Hussein where sportsmen and women had been murdered or tortured, beaten and left to rot. Your worst nightmares came true in those camps. Using an iron maiden, Uday used to punish not only athletes but also everyone who made him angry. Tortured people were kept in it for hours. When he was nearly dead, he would be brought out..." Also on display was a chain whip with steel barbs the size of a tennis ball attached to the end. Uday would also beat them with iron bars, tan the soles of their feet, and drag them on pavements until their backs became bloodied, then dunk them in sewage to ensure the wounds became infected. video link link
On March 24, 2006 U.S. Joint Forces Command published the "Iraqi Perspectives Project: A View of Operation Iraqi Freedom from Saddam's Senior Leadership." This unclassified report defined the nature of Saddam's regime by stating, "His atrocities differ from those of Hitler and Stalin only in scale, not intent." Inside Iraq societal relations broke down as neighbor no longer trusted neighbor and citizens feared denunciation even by their own family. "In a meeting of Baath Party officials one of Saddam's thugs singled out for special praise to Saddam a man who had executed his own brother for blaspheming the regime." link
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
JESUS...........................what part of none of these were brought up for a reason to go to war do you not get? Keep coping and pasting and build your case in your mind. Iraq was bush's war, you voted for him twice, get over it.
Hey I'm really not here to condone our involvement in Iraq at all. Probably was not the right decision. But I think it is a tad disingenuous for those on here to make it out like Saddam didn't do that many bad things and that the war was 100% on George W. Bush, and the Democrats were 100% against it. Also the notion that we did not have many problems with Muslims until we invaded Iraq. Nothing could be further from the truth. These monsters have been killing innocent people around the world for centuries.
Iraq? Hindsight is 20/20. You could second guess a lot of things, a lot of decisions in the past. Your "vision" is always better looking back than looking forward.
Do I want Jeb Bush to be the Republican nominee for President? HELL NO!!
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-----Winston Churchill
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