hey 8, How about that Faux NBC News?

[SicEmBaylor]

Too bad conservatives don't have the same standards for rightwingnuts as they do for mainstream news anchors.

Weak. Here's a pretty good example of why your 'lemming' statements are absolute bull****. I have absolutely no problem at all calling out and admonishing those on my own 'side' when they need to be. In fact, it's pretty much all I do. There's little value in blaming liberals for being liberal -- you can't blame a wolf in wolf's clothing; however, I detest statist 'conservatives' who are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Point being this: Only a lemming's first reaction to a news story like this would be to lash out at supposed transgressions by the other side rather than immediately own up to how unethical and wrong Williams' has been. You really have no standing, legitimacy, or credibility left.

[Soonerjeepman]

You really have no standing, legitimacy, or credibility left.

did he/she ever have any?

[SicEmBaylor]

did he/she ever have any?

I'm not sure, actually. I just started reading his (I'm going out on a limb here) posts fairly recently. There may have been a time he made good compelling arguments, but I haven't seen it.

[Sooner8th]

Weak. Here's a pretty good example of why your 'lemming' statements are absolute bull****. I have absolutely no problem at all calling out and admonishing those on my own 'side' when they need to be. In fact, it's pretty much all I do. There's little value in blaming liberals for being liberal -- you can't blame a wolf in wolf's clothing; however, I detest statist 'conservatives' who are wolves in sheep's clothing.Point being this: Only a lemming's first reaction to a news story like this would be to lash out at supposed transgressions by the other side rather than immediately own up to how unethical and wrong Williams' has been. You really have no standing, legitimacy, or credibility left.

Here is where you are an ignorant fvcking conservative. Brian Williams says something, not on his program, but on a late night talk show and you are freaking out like the rest of conservative media. He is not an elected public office of the party you have decided his is in. Piyush is an ELECTED CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN who LIED about no go zones in europe, claiming they exist, when none exist. Your righwingnut go to publishes a story that it is in fact it is true - but reading the story it is the exact opposite of the claim piyush made up that there are no go zones in European cites where the police are afraid to go is stated in the article and you are such and lemming and/or too stupid to comprehend what is being said by the authorities in these cities. Like all true conservatives he just made sh!t up. Yet you will try to hang williams around the neck of democrats and fully support and defend piyush. You have never had no standing, legitimacy, credibility, nor integrity at all.

[SicEmBaylor]

Here is where you are an ignorant fvcking conservative. Brian Williams says something, not on his program, but on a late night talk show and you are freaking out like the rest of conservative media.

Do I appear like someone who has freaked out at any point about Brian Williams? The post you just quoted would be the only time I've mentioned Brian Williams, and I'm not interested in Williams so much as I'm interested in your pathological, blind, and slavish devotion to your ideology to such an extent that your first reaction wasn't to condemn Williams but lash out at those you perceive to be your enemies. It's very telling -- perhaps as telling as anything you've ever said or written here or elsewhere.

He is not an elected public office of the party you have decided his is in. Piyush is an ELECTED CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN who LIED about no go zones in europe, claiming they exist, when none exist.

I didn't read through the rest of this thread, but I have absolutely no clue in hell who you are talking about or the European incident you refer to...nor am I interested. This isn't about whatever supposed-wrong you can pull out of your grab bag; this is about your reaction to Brian Williams. Is Brian Williams a public official? No. But he's supposedly one of the most trusted journalists in television who is the anchor and managing editor of the top network news division. Again, I'm less interested in the Williams story itself and more interested in your reaction. It seems the height of hypocrisy for you to constantly complain about "Faux News" and dismissing anyone you don't deem a legitimate journalist only to fail to condemn the many many proven lies of a man who is at the apex of that of those journalists you so esteem.

Your righwingnut go to publishes a story that it is in fact it is true - but reading the story it is the exact opposite of the claim piyush made up that there are no go zones in European cites where the police are afraid to go is stated in the article and you are such and lemming and/or too stupid to comprehend what is being said by the authorities in these cities. Like all true conservatives he just made sh!t up. Yet you will try to hang williams around the neck of democrats and fully support and defend piyush. You have never had no standing, legitimacy, credibility, nor integrity at all.

You seem to make a lot of assumptions about what I have said or not said around here. I assure you that posts in which I defend Republicans or mainstream conservatives are few and far between. It's easy to make assumptions, but I've been around here for a very very long time and I've made many many political posts -- the overwhelming majority of them are well outside anything you consider to be mainstream conservatism. I'm not sure what credibility you think I lack since I go to great pains to remain consistent both in my paleoconservative/libertarian ideology and general principles. I assure you that I detest the overwhelming majority of Republicans and conservatives that you seem to think I sit around here defending. I don't expect you to read every post I've ever written, but take a moment to educate yourself on the person with whom you're arguing.

[Sooner8th]

I didn't read through the rest of this thread, but I have absolutely no clue in hell who you are talking about or the European incident you refer to...nor am I interested. This isn't about whatever supposed-wrong you can pull out of your grab bag; this is about your reaction to Brian Williams. Is Brian Williams a public official? No. But he's supposedly one of the most trusted journalists in television who is the anchor and managing editor of the top network news division. Again, I'm less interested in the Williams story itself and more interested in your reaction. It seems the height of hypocrisy for you to constantly complain about "Faux News" and dismissing anyone you don't deem a legitimate journalist only to fail to condemn the many many proven lies of a man who is at the apex of that of those journalists you so esteem.You seem to make a lot of assumptions about what I have said or not said around here. I assure you that posts in which I defend Republicans or mainstream conservatives are few and far between. It's easy to make assumptions, but I've been around here for a very very long time and I've made many many political posts -- the overwhelming majority of them are well outside anything you consider to be mainstream conservatism. I'm not sure what credibility you think I lack since I go to great pains to remain consistent both in my paleoconservative/libertarian ideology and general principles. I assure you that I detest the overwhelming majority of Republicans and conservatives that you seem to think I sit around here defending. I don't expect you to read every post I've ever written, but take a moment to educate yourself on the person with whom you're arguing.

Too fvcking funny - conservatives on here blasted me not being up on the latest faux outrage about williams and you state "I have absolutely no clue in hell who you are talking about or the European incident you refer to...nor am I interested." Typical, ignoring a HUGE story that a leading conservative elected official, piyush jindal, take an interest in world events. I find you laughable for caring about something brian williams said - not on the job mind you - but on a light night talk show while ignoring a leading conservative elected official going overseas and making sh!t up. Apply the same standards to faux "news" that you have "supposedly one of the most trusted journalists in television who is the anchor and managing editor of the top network news division". You are interested in MY reaction, well OK. Whether or not his helicopter was shot at as he claimed - once again not on his job as "supposedly one of the most trusted journalists in television who is the anchor and managing editor of the top network news division" mind you, effects me nor you nor anyone else none whatsoever. What policy does that story influence? NONE. Faux "news" backing dumbass dubya on cuttin' taxes won't turn surpluses into deficits, iraq having wmd's, there are death panels in the ACA DOES effect my life by molding public opinion to a bunch of cant think for themselves lemmings does. As for knowing about you, I do. I read your profile and I LOL at you when I read the "war of northern aggression" I have seen you state on here that the south attacked fort sumter because lincoln mobilized some troops. The fact is the lincoln called for 75k troops three days AFTER fort sumter was attacked - the confederacy committed the first act of aggression and started the civil war. Don't be stupid and believe conservative southern revisionist history. My question to you is - why do you hate America? Why do you support a foreign nation who took up arms and attacked the good ol' US of A? You have no clue about "paleoconservative/libertarian ideology and general principles" you are being force fed by the kochs. You don't live in kansas, I do. The kochs don't believe in no taxes - they believe in no taxes on THEM. My taxes went up while the kochs were ELIMINATED. When a surplus that a democrat handed over to a republican went to deficit guess which tax bracket scheduled to be lowered is being pushed back? You got it - the lowest. Don't be such a lemming and actually understand the game the kochs are playing with their self-severing ideology

[TAFBSooner]

Do I appear like someone who has freaked out at any point about Brian Williams? The post you just quoted would be the only time I've mentioned Brian Williams, and I'm not interested in Williams so much as I'm interested in your pathological, blind, and slavish devotion to your ideology to such an extent that your first reaction wasn't to condemn Williams but lash out at those you perceive to be your enemies. It's very telling -- perhaps as telling as anything you've ever said or written here or elsewhere.


I didn't read through the rest of this thread, but I have absolutely no clue in hell who you are talking about or the European incident you refer to...nor am I interested. This isn't about whatever supposed-wrong you can pull out of your grab bag; this is about your reaction to Brian Williams. Is Brian Williams a public official? No. But he's supposedly one of the most trusted journalists in television who is the anchor and managing editor of the top network news division. Again, I'm less interested in the Williams story itself and more interested in your reaction. It seems the height of hypocrisy for you to constantly complain about "Faux News" and dismissing anyone you don't deem a legitimate journalist only to fail to condemn the many many proven lies of a man who is at the apex of that of those journalists you so esteem.



You seem to make a lot of assumptions about what I have said or not said around here. I assure you that posts in which I defend Republicans or mainstream conservatives are few and far between. It's easy to make assumptions, but I've been around here for a very very long time and I've made many many political posts -- the overwhelming majority of them are well outside anything you consider to be mainstream conservatism. I'm not sure what credibility you think I lack since I go to great pains to remain consistent both in my paleoconservative/libertarian ideology and general principles. I assure you that I detest the overwhelming majority of Republicans and conservatives that you seem to think I sit around here defending. I don't expect you to read every post I've ever written, but take a moment to educate yourself on the person with whom you're arguing.

Please take a moment to educate me on what exactly you mean by paleoconservative. I somehow doubt the Wikipedia definition corresponds exactly to your beliefs. For example, do you identify with distributism?

I'm also thinking that paleoconservative and libertarian aren't all that close on the 2-D.

[SicEmBaylor]

Please take a moment to educate me on what exactly you mean by paleoconservative. I somehow doubt the Wikipedia definition corresponds exactly to your beliefs. For example, do you identify with distributism?

I'm also thinking that paleoconservative and libertarian aren't all that close on the 2-D.

Excellent questions, actually. I went ahead and scanned the Wiki entry for paleoconservatism, and I didn't read anything in particular that I took major issue with. It's actually fairly spot on (a very minor quibble or two notwithstanding). I'm especially pleased they included a section on the Jeffersonian/southern agrarian tradition among some paleoconservatives since I do identify with the Jeffersonian/southern agrarian tradition within paleoconservatism despite the fact I've never 'literally' been involved in agriculture in any shape, form, or fashion...but of course the term doesn't really have anything to do with that in any case.

By 'paleoconservative' I mean almost exactly what the Wiki article laid out. The article would seem to split the Catholic paleocons from the ‘southern tradition’ paleocons. The contention between the two seems to be oversold a bit by wikipedia, but it is true there are elements of Catholic paleocon thought that I reject especially since I have little fondness for Catholicism in general. In any case -- I consider myself part of the 'old right.' I believe Jefferson was right in his belief that the United States was created and ought to remain a small de-centralized Republic. I believe the United States was created as the embodiment of the European enlightenment and conservatism, fundamentally, is about preserving those principles represented within our founding documents and both traditional and social institutions (less so the latter but more on that later). I believe the United States was built on western European tradition, and that western European cultural heritage and tradition is important, should be protected, and should be valued above multi-culturalism. Immigration, therefore, is a policy that I steadfastly oppose in any form whether it be legal or illegal immigration. I also oppose student visas to study in the United States. As another example: I believe American-style (small r) republicanism is best suited for Americans, and I absolutely oppose Wilsoniansim that makes spreading American democracy around the globe the cornerstone of American foreign policy. It means that I’m a non-interventionism who values working relationships with nations, regardless of how distasteful we find their government. I also oppose free-trade agreements with non-equitable/non-comparable nations and economies. I believe free-trade has fundamentally destroyed the United States’ ability to produce physical goods, and I believe it has resulted in a lower standard of living.

Paleoconservatism and libertarianism are a bit closer than you think, especially on foreign policy issues. Many paleoconservatives tend to side in with libertarian-leaning politicians. Sometimes, it’s a matter of both sides arriving at the same conclusion for vastly different reasons. I’m not a perfect paleoconservative by any means which is why I indicated I have a libertarian streak. I do value traditional American values and social institutions, but not to the extent that I support law or policy to enforce said tradition which puts me slightly outside of the paleoconservative mainstream (but not necessarily outside the Jeffersonian tradition). I support marriage equality; although, I believe (notwithstanding the 14th Amendment which should be repealed) it is and ought to remain a state issue to be decided legislatively rather than judicially. My personal belief is that government has no business sanctioning marriage one way or the other -- it should be a private contract between two (or more) consenting adults. I also support an end to the drug war (which some paleoconservatives do as well to an extent), and the legalization of marijuana. Ultimately, from a legal standpoint, it’s fair to say that I value an individual’s liberty over the preservation of social norms and values. However, that isn’t to say that I don’t believe those social values and institutions shouldn’t be protected and valued in other non-legally binding ways. Most paleoconservatives are Christians, whether protestant or Catholic; however, I am a Deist. That doesn’t put me outside the Jeffersonian tradition either for obvious reasons. My libertarianism ends at the border of the United States. Too many libertarians make the argument that national borders are arbitrary and should be abandoned entirely or that restricting the movement of people is a form of tyranny -- I couldn’t disagree me. I have a libertarian streak, but that libertarian streak is fully contained within the legal borders (physical or otherwise) of the United States.

The question of distributism is tricky for me. To be direct -- no, I don’t identify myself as a distributist, but there are elements of distributism that I subscribe to. I have long argued and absolutely believe that big business represents as big a threat to the liberty of the individual as big government, and I have never understood why more conservatives aren’t as distrustful of big business as they are big government. The former is as capable of infringing upon your rights and liberties as the former. A person’s right to capital and to personal property is the most fundamental right of any American. I also believe in ensuring as fair a marketplace as possible. The degree to which I support the distributists is probably best illustrated by the fact that I support local and state community efforts to protect privately-owned/small businesses from predatory practices by national or multinational corporations. For example, I’m perfectly fine with a local community refusing to grant a permit within city limits to WalMart. Traditional small-town America with its local businesses and civic organizations are worth protecting. What I’ve never understood about distributists is how they think they can pave a ‘third way’ between capitalism and socialism (whatever form that may take). At the end of the day, I really believe distributism is impossible and they must end up on one side or the other….I come out on the side of capitalism.

[TAFBSooner]

(saving electrons . . .) Most paleoconservatives are Christians, whether protestant or Catholic; however, I am a Deist. That doesn’t put me outside the Jeffersonian tradition either for obvious reasons. (snip)

Thank you for the thoughtful response. There's a lot there to think about, and me without time to research for the next few days.

I knew there are Deists today (should it be "there are still Deists" or "once again there are Deists"?), but hadn't met any. Do some people inherit Deism from their family, or do pretty much all of them come to it from surveying the alternatives? (I'm a UU, coming from a Methodist background.)

[SicEmBaylor]

Thank you for the thoughtful response. There's a lot there to think about, and me without time to research for the next few days.

I knew there are Deists today (should it be "there are still Deists" or "once again there are Deists"?), but hadn't met any. Do some people inherit Deism from their family, or do pretty much all of them come to it from surveying the alternatives? (I'm a UU, coming from a Methodist background.)

Most seem to come from some sort of Christian-tradition, but that's not always the case. There are also different types of Deists that range on a scale from Christian Deism to nearly agnostic. I'm much closer to the Christian Deist side of the scale which is to say that I think Christianity sets an excellent moral framework for mankind in a broad/general sense. I believe Jesus was a real man, and he was a great teacher of how man ought to treat their fellow man, but I do not believe he was the son of God. I don't believe in the 'miracles' of the Bible or the rather fantastical tales. I don't believe in hell. I don't believe in sin. I don't believe God takes an active participant role in human affairs. I also don't believe in the more dogmatic aspects of Biblical teaching.

I was raised Methodists, but we were not frequent church-goers. In my childhood, one of my closest friends was the Methodist minister's son until they moved so that was the most time I ever spent in church. Whether it be Sunday school or church itself, I was never comfortable with certain aspects of Christianity. I never bought into what they were selling hook, line, and sinker. This increased as I got older, and I really struggled to reconcile my beliefs with an actual Christian denomination -- I look at Unitarians for awhile. The truth is that I was always a Deist in my heart, but it took me awhile to realize it.

[champions77]

I have to laugh at the righteous indignation the left is showing for one of their "mouthpieces" being exposed as a liar. They seem very content to let their hero BHO spew his lies, deception and misinformation on a daily basis, and they are usually quite comfortable with the sycophants at NBC, ABC and CBS not reporting the news or giving 15 second spots when it is critical of the President, while exaggerating or amplifying any perceived accomplishments.
The main stream media, both in print form and on TV have carried BHO's water throughout his time in the National spotlight. And have shown themselves to be lacking any degree of professionalism or objectivity in doing so. So when they feign being agitated over something like the Brian William's one lie, as if they all of a sudden have a moral code they hold anyone to, it again shows how ridiculous the left is.

[okie52]

[okie52]

[okie52]

[TheHumanAlphabet]

You don't know what those words mean, because you are conservative republican. There is not a conviction or a core ideology that you will not abandon when a conservative republican breaks them. You will support a person whole wholeheartedly right up until those core values destroy our country. dubya is the prime example. In other words - fvck off ignorant *******, you are too stupid to understand anything beyond simpleton talking points.

I am so glad you know me that well that you can describe me so well. While you are at it and know me so well, please tell me what type of degree I have, I forget...also, where do I live, I need directions home this evening...

[Sooner in Tampa]

Here is where you are an ignorant fvcking conservative. Brian Williams says something, not on his program, but on a late night talk show and you are freaking out like the rest of conservative media. He is not an elected public office of the party you have decided his is in. Piyush is an ELECTED CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN who LIED about no go zones in europe, claiming they exist, when none exist. Your righwingnut go to publishes a story that it is in fact it is true - but reading the story it is the exact opposite of the claim piyush made up that there are no go zones in European cites where the police are afraid to go is stated in the article and you are such and lemming and/or too stupid to comprehend what is being said by the authorities in these cities. Like all true conservatives he just made sh!t up. Yet you will try to hang williams around the neck of democrats and fully support and defend piyush. You have never had no standing, legitimacy, credibility, nor integrity at all.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Troll ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Proven plagiarist and liar. Just a vacuous copy and paste troll.

[Sooner8th]

I have to laugh at the righteous indignation the left is showing for one of their "mouthpieces" being exposed as a liar. They seem very content to let their hero BHO spew his lies, deception and misinformation on a daily basis, and they are usually quite comfortable with the sycophants at NBC, ABC and CBS not reporting the news or giving 15 second spots when it is critical of the President, while exaggerating or amplifying any perceived accomplishments. The main stream media, both in print form and on TV have carried BHO's water throughout his time in the National spotlight. And have shown themselves to be lacking any degree of professionalism or objectivity in doing so. So when they feign being agitated over something like the Brian William's one lie, as if they all of a sudden have a moral code they hold anyone to, it again shows how ridiculous the left is.

So now brian williams is one of our mouthpieces huh? Was he on his show when he told that story? NO. Too bad you don't apply those same lofty standards to actual rightwing mouthpieces as you apply to people you you have deemed to be a liberal spokesman. How many blatant lies has rush told? How often does faux "news" lie? Everyday, but that doesn't seem to bother you. How about the huge whopper of a lie your boy elected republican conservative official claiming there are no go zones in europe. Embarrassed and humiliated conservative republicans on two continents. Focus on something important.

[Sooner8th]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Troll ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Proven plagiarist and liar. Just a vacuous copy and paste troll.

Two words - you know them.......................tyler duden.............dumbass

[Sooner in Tampa]

So now brian williams is one of our mouthpieces huh? Was he on his show when he told that story? NO. Too bad you don't apply those same lofty standards to actual rightwing mouthpieces as you apply to people you you have deemed to be a liberal spokesman. How many blatant lies has rush told? How often does faux "news" lie? Everyday, but that doesn't seem to bother you. How about the huge whopper of a lie your boy elected republican conservative official claiming there are no go zones in europe. Embarrassed and humiliated conservative republicans on two continents. Focus on something important.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Troll ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Proven plagiarist and liar. Just a vacuous copy and paste troll.

[Sooner8th]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Troll ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Proven plagiarist and liar. Just a vacuous copy and paste troll.

.........................................Tyler Durden......................................