And that makes me even more furious about our QB situation. Before watching OSU go through three ridiculously good QBs this season, I was somewhat okay with giving the guys we put out there a chance to work through their problems. After this, though, I'm just mad. How does Ohio St have three QBs that run and throw well and we don't even have one? That is on the OC/QB coach/QB recruiters/talent evaluators, and those guys need to get working or be fired.
Why doesn't he ever drop to the turf and sizzle like bacon when he scores? Is that too much to ask? -CobraKai on Adrian Peterson
k
Hey... maybe T BOONE can pony up and start a Stilleater newspaper... but the players would probably just use it to roll the weed.
Yes I was jealous too. And TCU built a wide receiver into a total boss at QB. I think both are more an indicator of coaching than recruiting.
The enduring image of Oklahoma was that ridiculous double–middle finger of a game-icing kick. It was probably an accident, which somehow made it more, not less, insulting. It was as though Stoops had partied so hard on the corpse of the SEC that he woke up with an unplanned tattoo.
Yup. Heupel was promoted beyond his abilities. As a QB coach, dedicated to that position and on the field during the game, he is outstanding. Juggling that and OC, at least when up in the booth, he is a bust in both.Originally Posted by soonergirlNeugene
There is a saying around my company that "People tend to rise to their highest level of incompetence." My boss told me that once, and I told him if I was any MORE incompetent, I'd be management material!
Aries
It's called the 'Peter Principle'. We had it in Air Traffic Control also, those who couldn't cut in on the radar any longer were moved up to management...
"Image is what people think we are. Integrity is what we really are"
I agree with Soonermark - Heupel was good at developing QB's Sam, Landry, but once he went up to the booth and started scheming, both aspects were krap!!! Instead of developing our QB's, he game planned and poorly I might add, and was trying to force a round peg into a square hole - i.e. making our QB's fit into a scheme instead of making the scheme fit our QB's skill set. I'm sorry but it is time for Josh to go, if he doesn't, do you really expect anything different next year? I think Baker Mayfield will be the starter next year when all is said and done, unfortunately for Trevor, Heupel did a tremendous disservice to him by not developing him, and to an extent Trevor bought into his one big victory in the Sugar Bowl last year and thought it would carry him through this year. I won't even begin to disucss the **** poor play our our defense, or lack there of! I will say that the talent was there, but the coaching was not. I like Coach Montgomery ( he should stay) but the rest should be sent packing to include Mike. His head isn't in the game, and his coaching of both players and coaches stinks right now. Please Bob for the Love of God, make changes, if you don't you better put your castle on the market now so you can sell it in 2016! I don't want to see Bob go - I simply want to see a positive change - that will require him growing a pair and sending several coaches packing! and Don't wait until NSD, because then the pickings for good assistants will be less!
I agree that changes must come. I think Josh should go back down on the field and
get in the ear of the QB as he comes off the field. I watched him do that with Sam &
LJ, even their back ups, if Bob ever used them. Their growth was obvious and the
results followed. TK and CT both have some talent that Josh can develop...zone reads,
read progression, ball release, defensive reads, the fine, nitpicky things that make good
great. As for an OC on staff now, I don't think Norvell is it. Surely, Bob can find an out-
standing OC to bring to an elite program.
I feel that our D is in good enough shape, if our O can give them a chance to rest, instead
of 3 and outs. With a more competent O, recruiting will pick up, fill our needs and we can
get back to where we belong. To sum up, and repeat the obvious, fixing the QB situation/O
is paramount. imo...
Does anyone else have stock phrases that people say that just bother the crap out of you? This is one of them for me. Has anyone ever thought about the permutations associated with this phrase?
We typically have around 85 plays with 4 options off of each (think Bubble Screen, Fake Bubble Screen long bomb, Fake Bubble Screen Draw, et). So given that, we might have 400 plays in the playbook for a system. Now lets say that we have 3 QBs on campus with each QB having 50% of the playbook that is unique to them. That would mean we'd end up with 800 plays that the WRs and RBs have to know in case any of the 3 QBs is on the field. Given that we have 46,500 minutes of official practice time from last game to first game, we could practice each play a maximum of 20 reps (3 minutes per play).
But why stop there? Each of those WRs and RBs have plays that they are better at, so why not add an extra 10 play for each RB and WR that could play? Eventually we'd be at 1200 plays in the book.
+1, Don't forget Okie State's backup freshman looked light years ahead of both Knight and Thomas, too. And Clemson's backup QB played lights out as well.
That part doesn't frustrate me..Jones went 18-35 for 243 yards, 1TD and 1INT..and beat Alabama.
If a QB here has that stat line, we aren't beating anyone.
Bazinga
Yep, it's the whole package. We got by under Sam and a good part of Landry's career beating people because our QB would put up monster numbers that masked problems in other areas (defense, running game).
With that said, it's also clear that we are no longer getting anywhere near that level of production from the QB position (or the WRs for that matter) on a regular basis. It's also clear that we keep recruiting/playing dual threat QBs, and do not consistently utilize that part of their skillset very effectively. Has been the case going back all the way to when Thompson was QB.
Whether Heupel is good at QB coaching or not, we have been highly fortunate to ever be 2 deep at the QB position under Stoops. Forget about 3 deep. The only time we were 2 deep was with White/Hybl. I suppose you could make an argument for Bomar/Thompson, but both of those guys were green that year. Same with TK/BB. The common denominator? QB controversy. We did bring in a JUCO in Halze to back up Bradford that one year.
So QB coaching goes beyond simply having one QB who is good to great. It goes all the way to Bob Stoops and his reluctance to give backup QBs any meaningful snaps and, I'm guessing, practice time. When our starter goes down, we wilt, plain and simple. That's not Heupel. That's Stoops.
In fairness, Clemson's backup had been the starter before and was a senior. Of course, they could've trotted out a dead man at QB and still beat us. It just would've been 33-6 instead because he did have that one kickass throw when he got popped pretty good.
For these programs feeling buyer's remorse after the big wins escape the coaches... it might be time to rethink how college coaches are paid.
Make the base salary low; offer really high incentives for big wins.
Are we really paying Bob Stoops $5 million annually for 8-5? Too bad we couldn't write a little bit of that off after losing a few games at home, the bowl and finishing unranked.
I am honestly not that convinced in Heupel as a QB coach. I know people say that the dropoff in QB production/development is due to him moving to the booth, but I'm starting to question that.
Bomar was inconsistent for most of 2005. Thompson was serviceable but not great in 2006. Our offense in both of those years was largely driven by the running game, not the QB play.
Bradford put up monster numbers in 2007 and 2008. This was the golden era of offense under Wilson. Of course, it didn't hurt that we were also loaded on the offensive line and at the skill positions during that time.
Landry was awful in 2009. Single handedly lost us the game in Lincoln, along with several other games. He improved a lot in 2010, and then plateaued and didn't really improve much after that. Decision-making was a problem for his entire career. Landry threw some of the most head scratching INTs I've ever seen from a QB.
Bell and Knight have been average to awful in 2013 and 2014. Neither improved noticeably during their time at QB. TK continues to make horrible decisions/reads, which (as opposed to arm strength of footspeed) is something that you should ideally be able to coach. Bell was about the same, without the big play running ability.
Having a hard time believing that we can't find another QB coach out there to get similar production levels from 4 and 5 star recruits.
Last edited by graphster; 1/2/2015 at 02:13 PM.
Ohio State won the game running the ball.......
Hey... maybe T BOONE can pony up and start a Stilleater newspaper... but the players would probably just use it to roll the weed.
Bomar was a true freshman QB who improved over the course of 2005. PT was a converted wide receiver and played a lot better than TK has this year. Landry was awful in 2009, again going back to Stoops' habit of not having serviceable backups. In fairness, LJ was a freshman that year so I don't know how prepared he could've been. 2011 was the first season Heupel had OC duties. It is from then on that our QB play has stagnated. Landry showed no improvement over his last two years. BB and TK have been busts.
Understood. I'm just saying that there's actually not a lot of evidence over the past 7-8 years that Heupel is a great QB coach.
Don't forget that Bomar and Landry were also both top QB recruits in HS. And both redshirted. Look at how well Jameis Winston and Johnny Manzeil played in their freshman year. Look at Bradford in his. You get guys that talented, you expect them to be ready to play early on. Zero 5 star QBs, in this day and age, come in expecting to sit on the bench for 3 years before taking a snap.
Regardless, I have a hard time believing that you couldn't find another QB coach out there who could get the same, if not better, levels of production from the players we've had. And maybe could have even gotten more out of those guys, and/or recruited and evaluated better.
The last part I definitely agree with.
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