10 wins only tells part of the story. If we aren't part of the national championship landscape then 10 wins is no more than a talking point. The decision to keep or replace coaches needs to be based on some objective criteria. Being afraid of making a hiring decision shouldn't be a reason to remain status quo.Originally Posted by Texas Golfer
I think JKM has it nailed down pretty well. The game Bob and Mike Stoops learned and grew up in has changed, and while they've attempted to adapt, they haven't quite gotten there and aren't comfortable with the current game and scheme and even the players.
As for someone else...I really have no idea. The obvious candidates aren't coming, or you'd have to throw so much money at them that it's not worth it. Even then, there are no guarantees.
Saban was major embarrassed in the Sugar Bowl against Utah a few years ago, and there were some bonehead plays last year (a million yard field goal with no time left against Auburn), and of course he trotted out the 'consolation bowl' argument last year. No guarantees.
Stoops is and can be an excellent coach. Right now, none of us really know if the problem is too much micromanaging or not enough. And ultimately it doesn't matter what we think...it matters what the Board of Regents thinks, and I'm sure they'll let Stoops know what they think. Until then, it's just a lot of spleen venting.
The problem with using Saban as your example is Saban is in the National title hunt almost every year. He has the occasional year where he loses 2 games and isn't in it, but Bob has been on the downward spiral for several years in a row. Saban had a down year last year and this year (I hate to say it) will probably win the national title and if not he was at least in the game.
Who are the obvious candidates that aren't coming? We haven't made any attempts to see if they'd be interested. Not saying we'd get Saban or Meyer. We haven't asked anyone. I think Briles or Patterson would leave their school to come here. I'd look at Scott Frost OC for Oregon, Kirby Smart DC for Alabama.
Briles and Patterson won't leave. Briles' entire coaching career is in Texas, high school and college. He's a Texan through and through and quite happy at Baylor. Patterson is established at TCU and has the program where he wants it. A coordinator would jump at the chance to come to Oklahoma.
Cogito sumere potum alterum - I think I'll have another drink.
There are only a couple of coaches that are clearly better than Stoops, and we aren't getting any of them. We're not getting Harbaugh, Meyer, Saban, or any of the NFL guys like Pete Carroll. Patterson isn't an upgrade. Briles might, but that's still TBD, and even UT couldn't get him, so we sure aren't.
Hiring a coordinator makes sense in some situations, but it's beyond me why anybody would even think about firing a guy like Stoops just to grab a guy with absolutely no HC experience.
I'm not saying Bob needs to go. I'm more of a Mike, Josh, BJW and Kish need to go. They shouldn't even have been allowed to get on the plane, should have been fired before they even made it inside the locker room. Bob won't do it and that's one of the reasons I don't really care for him to stay. He won't make the tough decisions. Mike's defense sucked and there was talent and yeah it was inexperienced but they didn't get better they got worse as the season went on. That's poor coaching.
Bob Stoops is not going to be fired and he's not going to fire his brother. But hey, there's always Alabama...
"Image is what people think we are. Integrity is what we really are"
Yes but part of that reason is that Alabama (the state) is producing talent at unhistorical levels. If Oklahoma was producing 2-3 1st round picks every single year (guaranteeing 7-8 on a team), we'd be in the national title hunt every year. Right now, Alabama is producing as much 1st round talent as Texas and there is a lot less competition for those players. Ever since the state of Texas embraced the spread, the teams who recruit the "best" in Texas have had their average talent level reduced dramatically.
You guys like to make fun of the Alabama victory, but it's meaningful, seeing as it came against one of the only guys who could replace Bob. I can't recall anybody that's outdueled Bob for any length of time other than Briles. He's got the edge on Snyder, overmatched Belotti, wiped his *** with Gundy, outdueled Leach and Patterson, shamed Brown, punched Jimbo in the mouth, lost a close one to Meyer, and traded blows with Saban.
I don't know how you expect to easily replace this guy.
I was going to watch the 1st half again tonight, but then I watched Clemson's 1st offensive play and we had 3 defensive players out on the edge and all 3 of them whiffed and acted like clowns who had never played defensive football before. I really don't know how you could put any other way than just poor pathetic coaching.
Back when Stoops came here, if any of his players pulled that kind of "let somebody else make the play" they would've been benched indefinitely.
We've either recruited some way below average players or there's some other problem percolating behind the scenes. Just sad. Geez. I know LSU got beaten today by ND, but if there would've been 3 LSU defenders out there instead of ours, the Clemson guy would've had his head ripped off.
When three guys whiff, that's "failure to execute." It's not like they've never been taught to how to tackle.
Ultimately, yes, our coaching staff brought those players in, so it's their responsibility to bring guys in that can execute, but by those standards, any type of shortcoming on the field is always coaching with no exceptions. We might as well blame the coaches for everything that goes wrong, and not worry about analyzing any of it.
I suppose we may be able to give Mike a bit of pardon for his defensive scheme if any of those three whiffers were brought in by other coaches, though.
I don't know about "You guys" but that was Hoover's comment. I loved the Bama victory and I don't want Bob fired. I just want the aliens who abducted him to send him back...
"Image is what people think we are. Integrity is what we really are"
Is Clemson really 34 pts better than you guys? Heck no. Simply put, Oklahoma looked like a team that didn't want to be there. Sound familiar??
Oklahoma will begin working with the Pacific Institute after the 2009 season.
"(Oklahoma coach) Bob Stoops' words to me were, 'I want exactly what Alabama got,'" Institute instructor Antowaine Richardson said.
The University of Alabama --All-Time leader with 10 AP NC's in the modern era and back-to-back AP NC's 3 times (64/65, 78/79, 11/12)
We got our asses handed to us, and we own that.
Your turn.
Out of the top 16 players recruited this year by Alabama only 4 are from Alabama.
The players they're recruiting this year have had no impact on their past or present success.
Also, the year the state of Oklahoma produced Gresham, Bradford, and McCoy, I'd bet OU had similar numbers. Those guys obviously had a pretty big impact even though it was only three guys.
Right, but he said "producing" as in the present tense.
The state of Alabama is still producing excellent players. It's just not that Alabama is getting them all anymore. Auburn is being successful in home town recruits, too.
Cogito sumere potum alterum - I think I'll have another drink.
Correct. Saban recruits nationally and relentlessly goes wherever the talent is. Blake Barnett, the top-rated QB of the 2015 class, is from California and signed with us and Derrick Henry, the all-time leading HS rusher(who you saw in last yrs sugar bowl) is from the state of Florida. We recruit coast to coast--we have to, as mentioned our state does not produce enough D-1 talent to support our program. We've finished with the number one class (as rated by Rivals) 5 of the last 6 yrs, and never out of the top 10 in the 8 yrs he's been here.
Of course, recruiting is only one piece that is vital to achieving and maintaining a highly successful program, you also need coaches that that can develop talent, which I think both Saban and Stoops are very good at. What has really surprised me though and seems to run parallel to your program's recent slide is that you all don't seem to be getting the amount of elite pkayers that you used to, and it has been reflected in the recruiting rankings. I know that recruiting is not an exact science, yada yada yada... But rankings are usually a pretty good indicator. I'd like to read an honest, detailed assessment of your recruiting over the last 6-7 yrs from one of you and to what extent you think that might tie in to the current state of your program.
Last edited by Sabanball; 12/31/2014 at 05:33 PM.
Oklahoma will begin working with the Pacific Institute after the 2009 season.
"(Oklahoma coach) Bob Stoops' words to me were, 'I want exactly what Alabama got,'" Institute instructor Antowaine Richardson said.
The University of Alabama --All-Time leader with 10 AP NC's in the modern era and back-to-back AP NC's 3 times (64/65, 78/79, 11/12)
Auburn only has 4 commits of the 4-5 star type from within Alabama. I'll stipulate that on a per capita basis Alabama is producing some good talent but the preponderance of recruits for both of these schools is coming from out of state. It isn't in-state talent that is making Alabama the premier program in the country. It is coaching and the ability of these coaches to go where they want and recruit the talent they want.
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