Long post on random topics about this football team..Worst Thread Title Ever.

[cvsooner]

I don't understand the "have confidence in" bit. I mean, when Bob and Mike first got here, they are working with an entire roster recruited by John Blake, i.e., mostly diamonds in the rough.

How can they have, within two seasons, had those guys hoisting the crystal ball, yet have no confidence in these blue chips they've been recruiting ever since?

Come on, man. The defensive line in 2000 was Ryan Fisher, Cory Heinecke, Barry Holleyman, Jeremy Wilson-Guest Kory Klein, and Ramon Richardson - four Blake holdovers, a true freshman, and a JUCO in a 4-3 defense. And, Wilson-Guest could barely walk due to back problems by the end of the season. These were not guy offered by every one. And, we shut down a bunch of teams.

"Have confidence in"? Come on.

That's what I'm talking about when I say maybe these coaches at OU are too comfortable.

Well, a couple of possibilities come to mind. Maybe this is a coaching staff that isn't all that great at evaluating talent. It could also be, to some extent, that the physically gifted aren't terribly good football players. My own experience was that the best natural athletes I've ever been around weren't necessarily great students of the game, and if they didn't have the physical advantage could be out-strategized and out-executed. (I sound like Bob, but there's a lot of truth there.) I think that's why great, notable players for the most part don't make very good coaches, because they just do what they do. Whereas the less gifted have to work at it really hard and can find a way to become a better player.

The ones who can convey that knowledge to players and get results make for very good coaches. There's also the issue of motivation. I'm not sure Bob is all that great a motivator, though I see him trying.

I know both Bob and Mike were pretty good to very good DBs, 30-plus years ago. Not so sure they're great coaches especially at their positions. Cale Gundy seems to be a good coach though he's coaching a position he didn't play. Josh Heupel does okay strictly as a QB guy but his record as an OC calling the plays is...mixed, to say the least.

I dunno. I think we're all looking for answers. It may be something as simple as key elements of the coaching staff working with players to modify their skills and them never getting over the hump--or it takes a long time to get there--and in college you simply don't have the time for development. Or not much time. Or the personnel.

Example: our top WR is returning punts. He gets injured. Now we've got our top DB catching punts. Forget returning one because the absolute last thing the D needs is for Sanchez to get dinged up (further than he was). All I can figure is we don't have anybody else on a roster of 85 players who can catch a punt? Apparently so.

[8timechamps]

[QUOTE=cvsooner;4909320]

That's how it started, but then he kept doing it...look no further than last Saturday. There is no reason we should ever have dropped 7 or 8 into coverage against a true freshman playing QB (and not the most mobile kid either). Again, it felt like the defensive scheme was to react to whatever OSU was doing, rather than forcing our will on the offense and forcing them to adjust and be uncomfortable.[/QUOTE

My observation is Mike has absolutely no faith in the ability of the linebackers or the secondary to cover receivers. How much of that is coaching failure and how much on the players, I don't know, but especially on deep balls--this problem goes back over a decade.

Absolutely.

Having three new starters in the secondary is part of the issue, but if you're not confident in their ability, either use different personnel or change the system to fit what you have.

Zack Sanchez is a very good corner (when healthy). Julian Wilson was a solid nickle back, unfortunately, he was learning to play CB in a new system...not a great idea when there's so much inexperience around him.

I do believe Parker will be a very good player (he has developed quite a bit over the year, and I expect that to continue). Byrd and Ahmad Thomas are question marks. I think either could get the job done if everyone around them knows what they're doing. Losing Hayes will be rough, but I think we'll be fine with Parker and either Byrd or Thomas with him. We also have Sunderland coming in too.

The bottom line is Mike either has to coach better, or change schemes. We have the talent, but he's using it incorrectly and he has no faith in their ability.

[cvsooner]

Stephen Parker was named honorable mention for Freshman Defensive Player of the Year by the Big 12 so there's that.

[Eielson]

Stephen Parker was named honorable mention for Freshman Defensive Player of the Year by the Big 12 so there's that.

I also heard something along the lines of us setting a record for most all-conference players in Big XII history this year, so there's that as well. All-conference is often too much about name recognition.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I don't understand the "have confidence in" bit. I mean, when Bob and Mike first got here, they are working with an entire roster recruited by John Blake, i.e., mostly diamonds in the rough.

How can they have, within two seasons, had those guys hoisting the crystal ball, yet have no confidence in these blue chips they've been recruiting ever since?

Come on, man. The defensive line in 2000 was Ryan Fisher, Cory Heinecke, Barry Holleyman, Jeremy Wilson-Guest Kory Klein, and Ramon Richardson - four Blake holdovers, a true freshman, and a JUCO in a 4-3 defense. And, Wilson-Guest could barely walk due to back problems by the end of the season. These were not guy offered by every one. And, we shut down a bunch of teams.

"Have confidence in"? Come on.

That's what I'm talking about when I say maybe these coaches at OU are too comfortable.

You do realize that practice time has been cut back almost 60% since 2001 right? I think we'll see some gains now that they are allowing coaches to coach the 7 on 7s in the summer.

[Tear Down This Wall]

You do realize that practice time has been cut back almost 60% since 2001 right? I think we'll see some gains now that they are allowing coaches to coach the 7 on 7s in the summer.

Yes, that I understand. But, if whatever time I have to coach I'm coaching the Charles Walkers and Matt Romars of the world instead of the Tommie Harrises or Gerald McCoys, where does that leave me?

[Eielson]

Yes, that I understand. But, if whatever time I have to coach I'm coaching the Charles Walkers and Matt Romars of the world instead of the Tommie Harrises or Gerald McCoys, where does that leave me?

From all indications I've heard, Charles Walker is one of our top NFL prospects. He's not a McCoy or Harris, but do you really expect us to have all-pro DTs every year?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Uhmm..Jordan Phillips is considered a top NFL DL as a Rs Sophmore.. He was an Under Armour All American and a top(in some pubs the top) DT in his class.

Romar had offers from Missouri and Baylor(as well as a bunch more) and if you hadn't noticed it..Both of those schools are putting out top Dlinemen.

What tells you that they can't play? It's based on the schools recruiting a player?

[Eielson]

Uhmm..Jordan Phillips is considered a top NFL DL as a Rs Sophmore.. He was an Under Armour All American and a top(in some pubs the top) DT in his class.

Romar had offers from Missouri and Baylor(as well as a bunch more) and if you hadn't noticed it..Both of those schools are putting out top Dlinemen.

What tells you that they can't play? It's based on the schools recruiting a player?

Just to catch you up to speed...

TDTW is obsessed with us needing to fire Montgomery and send BJW back the D-line. He'll use anything to support that claim, even if it's completely opposite of reality.

Do you think we should have any fear of Phillips or Tapper going pro after the season?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Yes on Tapper and Phillips..Some are suggesting that Phillips return for another year, but he is a 2nd round pick/possible late 1st snag "as-is".

[Eielson]

That would suck. We've got a lot riding on early-entries this year. Not exciting news for a 4 or 5 loss team.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Puke. Is everyone asleep? TCU has had one winning season in three years in the Big 12...and, we want to copy them?

We've already switched to a defense that admits we can't recruit enough DTs to make a 4-3 work. How many more times must we raise the white flag to opposing OCs?

Have you been asleep? TCU and Patterson are VERY respected for their D...the problem has always been their O, or lack thereof.

As far as our D...I am a 4-3 guy and agree with going back to a variation as mentioned already...4-2-5

[Tear Down This Wall]

From all indications I've heard, Charles Walker is one of our top NFL prospects. He's not a McCoy or Harris, but do you really expect us to have all-pro DTs every year?

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/colle...-for-dt-walker
"The Sooners battled New Mexico, Houston, New Mexico State and North Texas for his signature."

https://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/fo...-Walker-132243

Two years in, seven games, five tackles...a half sack against mighty Louisiana Tech, which makes sense because it was G5 schools that were after him when he was being recruited. He'd be a great G5 player. Would probably be starting at any school listed that offered him.

He's another Torrea Peterson.

He's not big school material. Neither is Romar. We have one guy - Jordan Phillips - who is big school material at DT.

[OklaPony]

[QUOTE=8timechamps;4909493]

Zack Sanchez is a very good corner (when healthy)....

I agree, ever since his shoulder got healed up I thought he had a great season.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Have you been asleep? TCU and Patterson are VERY respected for their D...the problem has always been their O, or lack thereof.

As far as our D...I am a 4-3 guy and agree with going back to a variation as mentioned already...4-2-5

TCU is ranked behind us in rush defense. And, they are 84th in pass defense. They aren't great. People move on them.

What they do is get sacks and turnovers when they need them - this season, anyway. We used to do same back when our coaches we more aggressive.

TCU isn't great, and neither is Baylor. The Big 12 is greatly watered down, and that's why both only have one loss. TCU might win their bowl game because their coach will gamble defensively and understands defense. Baylor will likely get blown out again.

We play defense in a losing, small school scheme because we can't get enough quality DTs or DEs anymore. And, we don't have a coach who would know what to do with them anyway.

[8timechamps]

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/colle...-for-dt-walker
"The Sooners battled New Mexico, Houston, New Mexico State and North Texas for his signature."

https://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/fo...-Walker-132243

Two years in, seven games, five tackles...a half sack against mighty Louisiana Tech, which makes sense because it was G5 schools that were after him when he was being recruited. He'd be a great G5 player. Would probably be starting at any school listed that offered him.

He's another Torrea Peterson.

He's not big school material. Neither is Romar. We have one guy - Jordan Phillips - who is big school material at DT.

A couple of things:

First, you are wrapped up in ratings and the "who's who" of the offer sheet. I realize that you can tell a lot about a kid that has mega offers, or is rated a 5 star (even though some of them bust), but there have been so many 3 star kids, without major offers, that have ended up being incredible players. Rankings and offers only tell a partial story.

Charles Walker is very talented, but young. The stats you listed are meaningless...he was injured for a large part of this season, and only a true freshman last year (it's pretty common for a true freshman to see a lot of sideline time). The guy is talented, and I think you'll see that soon.

I also think you're trying to compare McCoy and Harris to the current group of players. That's almost apples to oranges. You're talking about guys that played in a completely different system, and were asked to do completely different things. For what is required in the 3-4, our line did an excellent job this year. We were very stout against the run, and again, asking 3 linemen to pressure a QB (when we're dropping 8 into coverage) is crazy, and isn't going to yield many stats. The fact that those guys even had sacks tells me all I need to know.

There are some area's we are thin/weak, defensive line is most definitely not one of them.

If the only knock on Montgomery is that he has brought in a few guys that didn't get big time offers, that's not much of a negative. The guy is a great recruiter and an even better position coach.

As for Bedenbaugh, he's doing more for the O-line (in both coaching and recruiting) that anyone that's been in that position in years. If you're looking for coaches to criticize, there's other guys on the staff that have it coming. Those two are not them.

[Eielson]

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/colle...-for-dt-walker
"The Sooners battled New Mexico, Houston, New Mexico State and North Texas for his signature."

https://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/fo...-Walker-132243

Two years in, seven games, five tackles...a half sack against mighty Louisiana Tech, which makes sense because it was G5 schools that were after him when he was being recruited. He'd be a great G5 player. Would probably be starting at any school listed that offered him.

He's another Torrea Peterson.

He's not big school material. Neither is Romar. We have one guy - Jordan Phillips - who is big school material at DT.

Did you even read that article you posted? If anything, it supports what I was saying. I'll pull out a few quote since you clearly didn't read it.

Jordan Phillips appears in line for a healthy return after his redshirt sophomore season was cut short. Jordan Wade was pleasantly productive in the middle in Phillips’ absence, and Chuka Ndulue can slide inside at a moment’s notice.

Yet Charles Walker might be the most physically gifted of the bunch.

The redshirt freshman had Sooners fans buzzing when he posted his 4.7 time in the 40-yard dash on social media during winter workouts. It was an early sign of the sheer physical talent of the 6-foot-2, 289-pound Walker. This spring, he has continued to impress.

“Anyone that big and strong and fast, I think he will be a dynamic player,” Mike Stoops said.

It's true that he didn't have any tackles in the year he redshirted. That's seems to be the average.

He didn't do a lot this year, either, but like 8x said, he's been hurt most of the year. Additionally, as an NFL scout just told you, he's playing behind two older guys that are 1st-2nd round draft picks. The other guy isn't as highly rated, but is a 5th year senior, and will probably make it to the NFL.

So like I said, Charles Walker is one of the top NFL prospects we have. I know of some who have gone as far as to claim he is the top one. From the looks of it, his stiffest competition for top prospect is his fellow teammates on the D-line.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Romar doesn't look too bad as a 3-4 NT, he clogs the middle well which is what you want there. The guy that I think is a pretty good 3-4 DE but trapped behind Tapper/Ndulae is Matt Dimon. I just feel like we are in this weird spot on the DL where we have talented 4-3 guys playing a 3-4 with talented 3-4 guys behind them. That is part of the reason I'm in the "jury is still out" camp.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Yes, I read what it said Walker "might" be. He "might" also climb Mt. Everest in sandals. Until then, he'll give us five tackles a season...and, half a sack against whatever low level G5 out of conference schools we play. He's a G5 player on a P5 roster.

[8timechamps]

Yes, I read what it said Walker "might" be. He "might" also climb Mt. Everest in sandals. Until then, he'll give us five tackles a season...and, half a sack against whatever low level G5 out of conference schools we play. He's a G5 player on a P5 roster.

I am not following your logic on this.

Charles Walker is a redshirt freshman that plays behind a senior (Ndulue). He was injured for 1/4 of the season. Why are you dwelling on his stats? Shouldn't you wait until he's actually a starter, and plays a full year before making up your mind about his ability?

You're pointing out the stats of a back up, that's not really something that normally indicates a player's ability or lack of.