Long post on random topics about this football team..Worst Thread Title Ever.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Long post coming.. This is notes from a conversation with a few others that I was doing a Q and A with..One of the questions was about Thomas the corner turning his back to the WR at the snap whenever we get to that part..


I talked to a guy I used to work with at CDS(Consensus Draft Services) and the guy I just went to work with again. We had a 2 hour conversation on the phone that will be edited down for podcast soon(hopefully). Bill was at William and Mary when Mike Tomlin played there and is a genius of the game through and through.

Anyway, the reason he called was to discuss Charles Tapper. He mentions how much he likes him, that he is a second round pick who could have an NFL career of 8/9 sacks a year playing 40% of the snaps. And before i can say anything about how disappointing he has been, he says, "The more film I have looked at on him the more I have no idea what Oklahoma is doing on defense. I have never seen a bigger mess with so many good football players."

We talked about the 3-4 defense and how Mike doesn't understand it. he says that Mike should have stuck with what he ran the first time around in the 4-2-5 variation. How Eric Striker would have been a star as well as Tapper. We started talking about the LBs and Bill said your linebackers and your secondary are being coached by coaches who are in fear. They aren't coaching those guys to make plays, they are being coached to stop the worst case scenario..He brought up the baylor game where Dom Alexander had 18 tackles and called it the most unimpressive 18 tackle game you could see. He mentioned Jordan Evans and he thinks he could be a pretty good player. He brought up Geno Grissom as a good player. but he said I haven't found a game where those guys were coached to go create havoc. They were coached to react to everything.

So Scott, I think they played OK all season based on the coaching and positions they were put in, but did they get used to their potential, no. They get blown off the ball because they are on their heels a lot.

He brought up the secondary when I asked him about the Thomas technique we saw with turning your back. He said that is straight scared coaching where you just hope that guy doesn't burn you deep but you are giving up everything else to him. There is no way, like Greg said, that a corner can cover a WR like that. He asked me why Mike was so sold out on going M2M when Thomas, Wilson, and Sanchez are all cover 2 corners. I said it was a square peg they were trying to pound into a round hole. Didn't make sense to me either.

He didn't understand the alignment issues with the Safeties in the 3-4 games he watched, especially considering Bob and Mike were DBs in college. He did say that overall there was a lack of good safety play everywhere in college and the NFL because of the idea in high school and colleges to put the guy who isn't big enough to be LB or quick enough to be corner at safety. The guy playing safety should be just as good of an athlete as any other position and I said that explains Ahmad Thomas.

Bill said Tapper, Phillips, Grissom, Striker, and Sanchez are all NFL caliber players BTW.

It was all interesting to me because here is a guy who lives in the Northeast who isn't a fan saying the same things most of us are.

[olevetonahill]

I like.

[FaninAma]

Thanks for the post. I agree that against spread offenses a "read and react" defense is going to get abused especially by good QBs.( Heck, even Alabama's vaunted defense got abused by good spread offenses.) The only chance of slowing them down is to force turnovers and you do not do that by playing passively. Once teams figured out OU's blitz package with Striker and adjusted it became much less effective. Mike and Bob still coach the way they did 10 years ago....stop the run first, do not give up big plays. They apparently haven't figured out that the really good teams we play are a lot more comfortable passing the ball. I disagree about his assessment of our LB's. We had very average LBs this year that were OK in run defense but horrible in pass defense. Our Dbs are going to have to get a lot more physical and dirupt the timing of pass routes otherwise we will continue to see the 10 yard cushions in an attempt to not get burned.

On defense we need better DBs and LBs. On offense we need a crap load of receivers.

[olevetonahill]

I think Bob needs to look long and hard at his staff and decide if he wants to be remembered as a Great coach here.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Thanks for the post. I agree that against spread offenses a "read and react" defense is going to get abused especially by good QBs.( Heck, even Alabama's vaunted defense got abused by good spread offenses.) The only chance of slowing them down is to force turnovers and you do not do that by playing passively. Once teams figured out OU's blitz package with Striker and adjusted it became much less effective. Mike and Bob still coach the way they did 10 years ago....stop the run first, do not give up big plays. They apparently haven't figured out that the really good teams we play are a lot more comfortable passing the ball. I disagree about his assessment of our LB's. We had very average LBs this year that were OK in run defense but horrible in pass defense. Our Dbs are going to have to get a lot more physical and dirupt the timing of pass routes otherwise we will continue to see the 10 yard cushions in an attempt to not get burned.

On defense we need better DBs and LBs. On offense we need a crap load of receivers.

And the whole point of running a 3-4 with M2M coverages is not giving that cushion.. Against the spread there has to be some press.. If you are afraid of getting burned deep, then M2M has to be scrapped..And we were trying to do M2M with cover 2 corners.

When you talk about DBs getting more physical and disrupting routes, that is more coaching than personnel. The cushions were not a reaction to them not being able to do that. It was just, as Bill put it, "scared coaching."

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I personally think all of the blitz calls are being tipped too early to the offense also. Very easy to see where the pressure is going to come from and the meerkat offenses make it easier to change the call after that.

[KantoSooner]

All right. STEP, I have long enjoyed your posts and learned a lot about football from them. I respect your opinion. So, it's time to, for argument, if nothing else, step back, accept the diagnosis and talk implications.
In effect, you are talking about a team that has the horses to be good. Or at least better than they are now. But they are being directed not to win but to 'not lose'. All technical issues aside, that's what is being said. And it fits the facts as we have seen them on the field. (And there may be other facts that we are not privy to....but we can only work with what we've got and cover our butts by admitting that we might not know it all).
Your post above addresses the defense, but the basic argument could be made of the offense as well. Talent? There's plenty. Maybe not championship caliber, but plenty to do much better than we did. We've all bitched all season long about 'play calling' and 'lack of identity' but the argument could be made quite well that the root cause of all of that is coaches going into their shell and refusing to take ANY risk...and paying the price.
Now, JH may be over his head. But he didn't become a girly man over night. Norvell? He's always had some fire. And so forth and so on. WTF is up with these guys?
I'm edging around to concluding that the common factor in all of this is Bob. And it truly pains me to say that. Not only has he been an absolute titan for this team and University, but he has shown kindness to my family with a personal letter to my uber-fan grandfather as said grandpa was dying. I have every reason to like the guy. But it's starting to become obvious that the restraint and confusion emanate from him.
Glass half full: if it's coming from one source, it can be changed at that source, by that source. Can Bob get nasty again? Will he? I don't know, but I hope so. He now really doesn't have any time left. It's pretty much got to happen this off season. I think even the same record next year would be swallowed by the fan base IF there was a clear direction.
it is perhaps a good thing for a teacher to let his students find themselves. And we know that Bob, as a coach's son, is proud of the coaching tree legacy he's building. But, as a leader, it is up to him to set the course. I don't know why this has been lacking. But, the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that lack of clear leadership is something the sooners have not had enough of for several, if not many, years now.
I'm hoping Bob gets his mojo back.

[Sooner8th]

I think Bob needs to look long and hard at his staff and decide if he wants to be remembered as a Great coach here.

Wow - we completely agree on something.

[Tear Down This Wall]

This was basically discussed yesterday, the players reacting in the 3-4 instead of attacking like we used to in the 4-3.

Again, the Stoopses (and Venables) used to say at the coaching stops that the goal of the defense was to dictate to the offense. It isn't that way anymore.

Those little 3-3-5 defenses and 4-2-5 defenses are for schools who can't recruit enough good defensive linemen to wreck the timing of plays. I'm thinking here of the Dusty Dvoraceks, Tommie Harrises, and Gerald McCoys of yesteryears' 4-3 defense that wreaked havoc on Texas, Mizzou, Tech, and anyone else running that stupid four yards behind or in front of the line of scrimmage offense. We used to stop them with regularity in those 4-3s.

It's disheartening to know that our coaches consider our lot to be no better than 3-3-5/4-2-5.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Just to add to this, I think Stephen Parker is going to be pretty good. Byrd could be a great royback if we swapped back to the 4-2-5 again.

I also think Ndulae might catch on as a UDFA journeyman somewhere. He has such a high football IQ for a lineman and some old warhorse will love that (like a Marinelli).

[stoops the eternal pimp]

All right. STEP, I have long enjoyed your posts and learned a lot about football from them. I respect your opinion. So, it's time to, for argument, if nothing else, step back, accept the diagnosis and talk implications.
In effect, you are talking about a team that has the horses to be good. Or at least better than they are now. But they are being directed not to win but to 'not lose'. All technical issues aside, that's what is being said. And it fits the facts as we have seen them on the field. (And there may be other facts that we are not privy to....but we can only work with what we've got and cover our butts by admitting that we might not know it all).
Your post above addresses the defense, but the basic argument could be made of the offense as well. Talent? There's plenty. Maybe not championship caliber, but plenty to do much better than we did. We've all bitched all season long about 'play calling' and 'lack of identity' but the argument could be made quite well that the root cause of all of that is coaches going into their shell and refusing to take ANY risk...and paying the price.
Now, JH may be over his head. But he didn't become a girly man over night. Norvell? He's always had some fire. And so forth and so on. WTF is up with these guys?
I'm edging around to concluding that the common factor in all of this is Bob. And it truly pains me to say that. Not only has he been an absolute titan for this team and University, but he has shown kindness to my family with a personal letter to my uber-fan grandfather as said grandpa was dying. I have every reason to like the guy. But it's starting to become obvious that the restraint and confusion emanate from him.
Glass half full: if it's coming from one source, it can be changed at that source, by that source. Can Bob get nasty again? Will he? I don't know, but I hope so. He now really doesn't have any time left. It's pretty much got to happen this off season. I think even the same record next year would be swallowed by the fan base IF there was a clear direction.
it is perhaps a good thing for a teacher to let his students find themselves. And we know that Bob, as a coach's son, is proud of the coaching tree legacy he's building. But, as a leader, it is up to him to set the course. I don't know why this has been lacking. But, the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that lack of clear leadership is something the sooners have not had enough of for several, if not many, years now.
I'm hoping Bob gets his mojo back.

Bob, IMO, has become like a lot of Sooner fans..In love with nostalgia. Ever notice every time a coaching vacancy or potential need is glaring, most fans bring up guys who have already been here..It was that way with Mike, heck there is even people who want Mangino back.. Which makes no sense to me.

It's time for an outside voice, someone outside of the Youngstown Ohio mindset to come in..Just my opinion.

Just for fun, I made up a list of guys that would make good coordinators here..I stayed away from the most notable guys because their next move is probably to HC somewhere, not another coordinator job at OU.

Anyway, the list.

OC

Scott Frost-Long shot..Long. But isn't that the offense what we are recruiting for? Familiar with the area, can recruit this region, QBs coach who has done a spectacular job.

Jake Spavital- Oklahoma Kid, has worked under Dana Holgerson and Kevin Sumlin..Can recruit the South and Southeast. Again, has worked in the Air Raid and with Mobile QBs(Manziel for one). Tulsa interviewed him for their HC job but no word yet.

Nick Rolovich- Nevada OC. Worked at Hawaii and Nevada, again working in an Air Raid system and then tutoring mobile QBs for the Wolfpack. Can recruit the west were OU has a couple of pipelines working.

Kyle Shananan- Ties to the program, young guy with NFL experience. Has coached QBs, mobile qbs, in the league and has a lot of experience for a 33 year old.

DC.

DJ Durkin- DC for Muschamp at UF..Can recruit the southeast and despite the offensive woes, the defense is stacked. Can coach linebackers and pretty much clones the Muschamp system. Interim who will be looking for a job soon.

Steve Wilks, DBs coach Carolina Panthers. Outstanding position coach with college experience. I think an NFL defensive coach is what is necessary to come up with a system in this conference. Was DB coach of the Bears defense when they were at their pinnacle in the early 2000s.

Brendan Daly, DL coach Vikings. Strong personality, has produced good defensive lines every where he has been. fundamentally sound coaching with passion..

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Just to add to this, I think Stephen Parker is going to be pretty good. Byrd could be a great royback if we swapped back to the 4-2-5 again.

I also think Ndulae might catch on as a UDFA journeyman somewhere. He has such a high football IQ for a lineman and some old warhorse will love that (like a Marinelli).

Don't disagree on Ndulae..I was listing draft picks but I definitely think he has 7th round-UDFA ability..

And I can't believe I left Jordan Phillips off of that list.

[rock on sooner]

STEP, fantastic OP! Did you guys break down the offense in another phone
conversation? Here's a suggestion...do NOT edit a thing...take the complete
transcript, copy it (the one on offense, too!?) put it in a plain brown envelope
and slide it under B. Stoops office door.....some frank evaluations given to the
powers that be could, might, we can only hope, actually do create positive
change. Cristal clearly, good football minds hard at work in the post!!!

BOOMER!!

[badger]

Would it be fair to assume that everyone eligible that will be drafted regardless of round is headed to the NFL, not staying at OU?

After seeing one of our corners (Julian?) blow up at Mike on the sideline after being instructed over and over to give a 10-yard cushion to the opposing receivers then sit back as pass after pass gets completed for positive yardages uncontested.... yeah, I'd say our defense has major issues

[BoulderSooner79]

I really like the idea of getting coordinators with some NFL experience. I would especially love to see that on offense to help the passing game. I think ours is to simplistic and why it takes exceptional talent like Shepard just to get open. We need production from good, college level WRs.

[Sooner8th]

The most disappointing thing about this staff is that it seems it is disintegrating into john blake territory. Bad schemes and playing guys in the wrong position. I am at the point where I don't think we can recruit anyone who can make the scheme work, in other words - don't think any player can make this defensive scheme work.

[KantoSooner]

STEP, THANKS for the list of coordinators. There is simply no way I can devote enough time to the game to have much of an overview of who's hot amongst asst coaches these days.

[Eielson]

Doesn't TCU run a 4-2-5? I'd imagine after a 4 (maybe 5) loss season, we'll make some switches. I don't think it's too far-fetched for that to be one of them, seeing as TCU's defense worked pretty well with the exception of the Baylor game.

Speaking of lack of talent at safety, from what you've seen, does Steven Parker look like he could develop into an NFL-caliber safety?

[cherokeebrewer]

It's time for an outside voice, someone outside of the Youngstown Ohio mindset to come in..Just my opinion.

We have the same opinion...

[Tear Down This Wall]

Puke. Is everyone asleep? TCU has had one winning season in three years in the Big 12...and, we want to copy them?

We've already switched to a defense that admits we can't recruit enough DTs to make a 4-3 work. How many more times must we raise the white flag to opposing OCs?