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  1. #41
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by EatLeadCommie View Post
    Oregon has been good for a while, but they were screwed back in 2001 when they were denied a shot at Miami. That may very well have been due to them not being a "traditional power". Instead, Nebraska, who gave up 60+ points and about a million yards on the ground to one-dimensional CU, had the honor of being killed by Miami.
    Yes, Oregon was very good when they had Joey Harrington. Other than those 2 years, they were top 10 exactly one year before 2008, and that was 1946. They followed that 2001 success up by finishing 8th in conference the following year, unranked the next, and then 5-6 to wrap a forgetful 3 year stretch.

  2. #42
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
    You missed my point. Oregon DOESN'T have a history of success. Chip Kelly made them "national powers" starting in 2009.

    If Baylor continues with their current level of success for 2-3 more years, they'll be just as reputable as a team like Oregon. If they don't continue this success, then they won't be the team trying to get into the CFP, and it doesn't matter.

    The same is true for TCU.
    If OU and Texas continue to perform at their current level of mediocrity it won't matter. You are missing the point. TCU and Baylor could be the best teams in the nation but they play in a crappy conference with no tradition or cache(TDTW's term) outside of OU and Texas. They will always be considered 2nd tier programs. You don't wipe out 70 years of suckage by winning a few years in an inferior conference.

    Oregon won The PAC 12 that has USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford and several Universities that are the primier program in their state. The Big 12 has OU , Texas and who else?
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  3. #43
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma View Post
    If OU and Texas continue to perform at their current level of mediocrity it won't matter. You are missing the point. TCU and Baylor could be the best teams in the nation but they play in a crappy conference with no tradition or cache(TDTW's term) outside of OU and Texas. They will always be considered 2nd tier programs. You don't wipe out 70 years of suckage by winning a few years in an inferior conference.
    It sounds like you agree that OU is fine at 1 loss, but that TCU and Baylor might not be. I don't really care what happens to the rest of the Big XII, as this isn't like the SEC cult. All I care about is OU.

  4. #44
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
    It sounds like you agree that OU is fine at 1 loss, but that TCU and Baylor might not be. I don't really care what happens to the rest of the Big XII, as this isn't like the SEC cult. All I care about is OU.
    Yes, OU is fine at one loss. But eventually the mediocrity of the conference will drag the Sooners down as players go elsewhere to play in leagues that have more appeal. In fact, I think we are already a few years into the process since we are already seeing the perception of lowered expectations take root in the program.
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  5. #45
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8timechamps View Post
    Secondly, it sounds like he's resigned to the fact that we need a CCG.
    If that's true, then I guess it means he goes all out to fill in 12 teams with two nobodies. There's just no one left, and no one is leaving any of the other conferences to join us.

    What a fine mess OU's in here.

  6. #46
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerMarkVA View Post
    If that's true, then I guess it means he goes all out to fill in 12 teams with two nobodies. There's just no one left, and no one is leaving any of the other conferences to join us.

    What a fine mess OU's in here.
    Yep, the door was wide open 3 or 4 years ago. Boren and OU refused to walk throught the door for whatever politically expedient reason and now we are seeing the results.
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  7. #47
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma View Post
    Yes, OU is fine at one loss. But eventually the mediocrity of the conference will drag the Sooners down as players go elsewhere to play in leagues that have more apopeal. In fact, I think we are already a few years into the process since we are already seeing the percetion of lowered expectations take root in the program.
    Agreed. The transition began very quickly after NU and A&M left. I think CU and Mizzou have been essentially irrelevant.

  8. #48
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    I wonder what would have happened had OU just been more disciplined and more tightly managed during games? Say OU did win against TCU and KSU in tight games, but the rest of the season played out the same. Baylor would have been co-champ with OU instead of TCU with a convincing head-to-head win on the road. Would Baylor have been selected over tOSU in that case putting the CCG issue to rest? My guess is they would have, but there is no way to know for sure.

    EDIT: Obviously I'm assuming that if we had 1 loss, we would have cared more against OSU and not screwed up that game. But even if we had, Baylor's win against us would have been against TK with everything on the line, and the committee would not really of cared about our last game with no viable QB.

  9. #49
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
    Yes, Oregon was very good when they had Joey Harrington. Other than those 2 years, they were top 10 exactly one year before 2008, and that was 1946. They followed that 2001 success up by finishing 8th in conference the following year, unranked the next, and then 5-6 to wrap a forgetful 3 year stretch.
    That's not true. Oregon has finished in the Top 10 three times under each coach beginning with Mike Bellotti:
    http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data..._the_polls.php

    Mike Bellotti built Oregon into a powerhouse, then handed off the Chip Kelly. Kelly handed off to Mark Helfrich.

    Oregon has been an excellent program for the past 20+ years. Baylor is nowhere near Oregon.
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Since Bellotti took over at Oregon in 1995, the Ducks: 185 wins, 65 losses = .740 winning percentage
    Baylor over the same span: 97 wins, 138 losses - .412 winning percentage

    Oregon, Top 25 finishes: 12, will be 13 after this season
    Baylor, Top 25 finishes: 2, will be 3 after this season

    Oregon, Top 10 finishes: 7, will be 8 after this season
    Baylor, Top 10 finishes: 0, will be 1 after this season

    Oregon, Top 5 finishes: 4, possibly 5 after this season
    Baylor, Top 5 finishes: 0, maybe 1 after this season
    "General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
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  11. #51
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Oregon Bowl Record since 1995: 9-8 in 17 appearances, 6 "BCS/Major Bowls" - 2014 is the 18th Bowl, and 7th Major Bowl appearance since 1995

    Baylor Bowl Record since 1995: 2-2 in 4 bowl appearances, 1 "BCS/Major Bowl"
    "General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Again, to somehow try to say Oregon has been just a woebegone as Baylor over the past two to three decades is simply to deny reality.

    It's simply laughable to try to sweep Mike Bellotti's tenure there under the rug.
    "General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
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  13. #53
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Yes, Oregon was very good when they had Joey Harrington. Other than those 2 years, they were top 10 exactly one year before 2008, and that was 1946. They followed that 2001 success up by finishing 8th in conference the following year, unranked the next, and then 5-6 to wrap a forgetful 3 year stretch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tear Down This Wall View Post
    That's not true. Oregon has finished in the Top 10 three times under each coach beginning with Mike Bellotti:
    http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data..._the_polls.php
    You told me I'm wrong, and then posted information that supports exactly what I said. I don't know what to say other than to repeat myself.

    Other than the two Joey Harrington years, 2008 was the first time Oregon had finished top ten since 1946. That's 62 years. It's not impressive that Oregon was a mediocre program for a long time while Baylor was just flat-out bad. Between now and 2008, Oregon has developed a reputation as a National Powerhouse.

    Oregon has been an excellent program for the past 20+ years. Baylor is nowhere near Oregon.
    They've been excellent for less than 10 years. From 1996-2006, they finished unranked 7 times.

  14. #54
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    After reading all the opinions, I was leaning towards grabbing a couple of teams, making it 12 but I agree with alot of the sentiments the conference is losing it's moxy.

    It has replaced the "Old Big east" in football now. OU and Texas is not enough anymore, not with the other Power 5 dding so many more teams, upping their "star power" and just creating more interest.

    I wish we would have taken the Pac12 jump a few yrs ago now, I feel like the Big12 days are numbered unless something drastic happens.

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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
    You told me I'm wrong, and then posted information that supports exactly what I said. I don't know what to say other than to repeat myself.

    Other than the two Joey Harrington years, 2008 was the first time Oregon had finished top ten since 1946. That's 62 years. It's not impressive that Oregon was a mediocre program for a long time while Baylor was just flat-out bad. Between now and 2008, Oregon has developed a reputation as a National Powerhouse.



    They've been excellent for less than 10 years. From 1996-2006, they finished unranked 7 times.
    Do you seriously not see that Oregon finished in the Top 10 in 2000 and Top 5 in 2001? I mean, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here; but, it's difficult if you can't read.

    I'll spell it out for you here, then ask a couple of basic questions:

    2000: 10-2, AP rank #7, Coaches Poll #9
    2001: 11-1, AP rank #2, Coaches Poll #2

    Now, those are facts. But, you keep saying Oregon's 2008 Top Ten finish was their first since 1948. So, my question is, chronologically speaking, did the years 2000 and 2001 occur before or after 1948? I'll spot you that both 2000 and 2001 occurred before 2008.

    So, if you are able to accept that the years 2000 and 2001 were both years that occurred in history, and that they occurred somewhere between 1948 and 2008, you can see that 2008 was not Oregon's first top ten finish since 1948, but actually Bellotti's third in the opening decade of the 2000s.
    "General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
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  16. #56
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Oregon has been a good team since 1994. During that 21 season span, they are 194-69. That's hardly mediocre, and certainly far better than anything Baylor has strung together in any 21 year period in their entire history.

    Bellotti himself was 116-55 from 1995-2008. That's not mediocre. Oregon has had one losing season since 1993. Baylor, the school you pretend to compare Oregon to?

    This isn't even a discussion.
    "General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
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  17. #57
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerMarkVA View Post
    If that's true, then I guess it means he goes all out to fill in 12 teams with two nobodies. There's just no one left, and no one is leaving any of the other conferences to join us.

    What a fine mess OU's in here.
    I really don't think the NCAA would turn down a request for a CCG (with 10 teams). The NCAA isn't exactly in a position to tell a Power 5 conference "no" on something like that.

    Right now, there aren't 2 worthy programs out there, so unless he can pull a rabbit out of his hat, he'll have to go to work on the NCAA for a 10 team CCG,

  18. #58
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tear Down This Wall View Post
    Do you seriously not see that Oregon finished in the Top 10 in 2000 and Top 5 in 2001? I mean, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here; but, it's difficult if you can't read.

    I'll spell it out for you here, then ask a couple of basic questions:

    2000: 10-2, AP rank #7, Coaches Poll #9
    2001: 11-1, AP rank #2, Coaches Poll #2

    Now, those are facts. But, you keep saying Oregon's 2008 Top Ten finish was their first since 1948. So, my question is, chronologically speaking, did the years 2000 and 2001 occur before or after 1948? I'll spot you that both 2000 and 2001 occurred before 2008.

    So, if you are able to accept that the years 2000 and 2001 were both years that occurred in history, and that they occurred somewhere between 1948 and 2008, you can see that 2008 was not Oregon's first top ten finish since 1948, but actually Bellotti's third in the opening decade of the 2000s.
    That's cool. Once again, your posting facts that back up my position EXACTLY. I'm not even going to bother rewording it this time. I'm just going to requote what I said the last two times.

    Other than the two Joey Harrington years, 2008 was the first time Oregon had finished top ten since 1946. That's 62 years. It's not impressive that Oregon was a mediocre program for a long time while Baylor was just flat-out bad. Between now and 2008, Oregon has developed a reputation as a National Powerhouse.
    Yes, Oregon was very good when they had Joey Harrington. Other than those 2 years, they were top 10 exactly one year before 2008, and that was 1946. They followed that 2001 success up by finishing 8th in conference the following year, unranked the next, and then 5-6 to wrap a forgetful 3 year stretch.

  19. #59
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner79 View Post
    I wonder what would have happened had OU just been more disciplined and more tightly managed during games? Say OU did win against TCU and KSU in tight games, but the rest of the season played out the same. Baylor would have been co-champ with OU instead of TCU with a convincing head-to-head win on the road. Would Baylor have been selected over tOSU in that case putting the CCG issue to rest? My guess is they would have, but there is no way to know for sure.

    EDIT: Obviously I'm assuming that if we had 1 loss, we would have cared more against OSU and not screwed up that game. But even if we had, Baylor's win against us would have been against TK with everything on the line, and the committee would not really of cared about our last game with no viable QB.
    I don't think the CCG would even be a conversation topic had Baylor made it in (under the scenario you mentioned). I agreed with what Joey Galloway said the night of the selection; "Rather than having the committee select between Baylor and TCU, it was much easier to take Ohio State".

    Bowlsby screwed up by not naming a conference champion. That could have been foreseen long before they got to that point...in fact, once the playoffs were announced, the conference should have written a rule to address how a champion would be named in the event of a tie (and with a two way tie, it wouldn't be difficult).

    Bowlsby did neither of those things, and he tried to pass it off on the committee to sort out. The committee was having no part of that, and used the CCG as an easy excuse. However, they also set an important precedent in the process. If in the future, the winner of the Big XII (with one loss) ends up close to (for the sake of this example, let's say Ohio State is in the same situation), then they would have to take tOSU based on the fact that they put extra importance on a CCG.

    I think the committee, indirectly, has forced the Big XII's hand. Either petition for a 10 team CCG, expand to 12, or take your chances that you'll continue to be left out if there are 4 qualified teams from the other P5 conference (with a CCG).

  20. #60
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    Re: Will the Big XII have a conference championship game in 2015?

    Baylor or TCU needed a good out of conference win. then they might have gotten over the hump of tOSU's CCG win and name

    it's tough to argue with tOSU's draw for traveling and TV sets compared to Baylor's

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