Reported On The Newswire Board: Knight Out Against OSU

[Eielson]

Have to agree on that one and marijuana is legal in the state (I used to) live in. Ford is no where close to be where Ford should be due to injury and lack of carries. Perine is proven and so far advanced on his development curve, a Ford/Perine comparison doesn't even make sense.

Perine beats up on easy competition. As a true freshman, that's still very impressive, but he's done nothing against good defenses.

25 carries for 87 yards against TCU
18 carries for 62 yards against Texas
24 carries for 89 yards against KSU
5 carries for 21 yards against Baylor

Ford would be much better against top competition if he could stay healthy and hold on to the ball. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll ever be able to do either, so we'll probably have to look in other directions.

I never thought I would say this, but Ross needs to get more carries. He was awful all the way through the Texas game, but he's been becoming our best RB as of late. He was our best RB against K-State, ISU, and Baylor. I want to beat teams like K-State and Baylor (and TCU). I'm not as interested in whooping up on teams like Kansas.

[BoulderSooner79]

Perine beats up on easy competition. As a true freshman, that's still very impressive, but he's done nothing against good defenses.

25 carries for 87 yards against TCU
18 carries for 62 yards against Texas
24 carries for 89 yards against KSU
5 carries for 21 yards against Baylor

Ford would be much better against top competition if he could stay healthy and hold on to the ball. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll ever be able to do either, so we'll probably have to look in other directions.

I never thought I would say this, but Ross needs to get more carries. He was awful all the way through the Texas game, but he's been becoming our best RB as of late. He was our best RB against K-State, ISU, and Baylor. I want to beat teams like K-State and Baylor (and TCU). I'm not as interested in whooping up on teams like Kansas.

I agree Perine's number are greatly inflated due to weak competition. That may be as much a comment on our OL as it is on Perine. But he is clearly an excellent back and has improved with each game. That 4th down fail against TCU was partly his fault and I would bet real money he would get the 1st down if the situation were repeated. Have to remember he is a true FR.

Your comment on Ford is circular - like saying he would be a good back if he were a good back (and you doubt it). The fumbles are a real concern since this is his 2nd year in the program. Injuries happen and it could have been just a fluke. But the layoff clearly set him back as he is not running as well as he did to start the year. I'm certainly not assuming he is a lost cause, but we probably won't know until next year.

I agree that Ross has improved and just has a knack for making big plays. Without his KO returns we may have been in trouble against WVU and almost certainly would have been in trouble against the horns. That big run on 3rd and 20 against KSU when TK was out of the game was huge and would have saved a win if we didn't mess up 2 short field goals and and an extra point. I don't see Ross as an every down back, but a great change of pace. And if he gets 8-10 touches he is bound to break a big one. Maybe he gets Fords touches for the next 2 games while Ford is in the doghouse.

[Eielson]

I agree Perine's number are greatly inflated due to weak competition. That may be as much a comment on our OL as it is on Perine. But he is clearly an excellent back and has improved with each game. That 4th down fail against TCU was partly his fault and I would bet real money he would get the 1st down if the situation were repeated. Have to remember he is a true FR.

It's not just the OL. Perine uses the same line that our other backs use, and yet he's the one who is dominating bad defenses. That's very useful. Somebody suggested that it's because Perine waits for the holes to open, while guys like Ford just hit the hole as quickly as they can. Against weak competition, this obviously favors Perine, as the holes should eventually open up on most plays. Against teams like Texas and TCU, though, the hole may never be there, so if you see a slight crease, you have to hit it.

Your comment on Ford is circular - like saying he would be a good back if he were a good back (and you doubt it). The fumbles are a real concern since this is his 2nd year in the program. Injuries happen and it could have been just a fluke. But the layoff clearly set him back as he is not running as well as he did to start the year. I'm certainly not assuming he is a lost cause, but we probably won't know until next year.

I strongly disagree here on the circularity. He's a good back when he's healthy. The fact that he's not healthy doesn't mean he's not a good back. It just means he's not usually available.

I agree that Ross has improved and just has a knack for making big plays. Without his KO returns we may have been in trouble against WVU and almost certainly would have been in trouble against the horns. That big run on 3rd and 20 against KSU when TK was out of the game was huge and would have saved a win if we didn't mess up 2 short field goals and and an extra point. I don't see Ross as an every down back, but a great change of pace. And if he gets 8-10 touches he is bound to break a big one. Maybe he gets Fords touches for the next 2 games while Ford is in the doghouse.

I hated Ross at the beginning of the year, because he was a boom or bust RB. He'd break an 80 yarder, and then follow that up with 10 straight carries of 2 yards or less. Statistically it looks alright, and the 80 yarder can change the momentum of the game, but those carries for no gain can quickly kill a drive. He's still a boom or bust kind of back, and I'd imagine he'll always be to some extent, but he's been a lot more boom than bust as of late.

[BoulderSooner79]

Okay, not circular. How about Ford would be a good back if he could do the critical task of hanging onto the ball more often? The injury thing and staying on the field applies to all players, of course. But no back is a good back if he fumbles too much - it's just part of the definition.

[soonergirlNeugene]

The nice thing about Ross is that he can catch the ball well. There is a premium on Sooners who can do that this season.

[Tear Down This Wall]

The nice thing about Ross is that he can catch the ball well. There is a premium on Sooners who can do that this season.

So, geniuses, why didn't Ross or Ford run for 200+ or 400+ against the easier competition? It's not as thought they've started Perine in the majority of games. Our coaches are too stupid to do the obvious.

So, explain. After Quarter #1 against Kansas, Ford had more carries. So, why wasn't Ford having a big day? Some sort of conspiracy by the linemen to only block well for Perine?

[badger]

So, geniuses

Genius present. I suspect there's a Ross injury that has not been leaking publicly. Otherwise, why isn't he returning punts as well as kickoffs while Sterling is injured? Why didn't he get to share carries against helpless Kansas when Ford was fumbling?

I am totally fine with team info not leaking publicly, as it would be a strategic advantage to not wave our poker hand for all Pokes to see before Saturday. Then again, does anyone doubt that Perine will get 500+ carries?

[FaninAma]

So, geniuses, why didn't Ross or Ford run for 200+ or 400+ against the easier competition? It's not as thought they've started Perine in the majority of games. Our coaches are too stupid to do the obvious.

So, explain. After Quarter #1 against Kansas, Ford had more carries. So, why wasn't Ford having a big day? Some sort of conspiracy by the linemen to only block well for Perine?

I have always felt that some great athletes possess a trait that separates them form the good or average athletes beyond mere physical talent like speed, size and quickness. I maintain that the truly great athletes in every sport possess a visual-spatial brain capability that allows them to see the field as well as allowing the game to slow down so that it becomes easier to play. I think this capability translates into the ability to "see the field" as some often state. But I also think it gives these athletes in the skill sports like baseball and tennis, an increased hand-eye coordination capability which translates into superior muscle memory which in turn leads to a higher skill level in the sport.

You can just see this in athletes like Tiger Woods, Madison Bumgarner and some of the great hitters in baseball. Babe Ruth looked like anything other than an awe inspiring athlete but he had hitting(and pitching) skills rarely seen in baseball. I understand physical talent certainly helps but there are a lot of physical specimen freaks who don't excel or reach the expected high level of achievement in the NFL and MLB. And you cannot discount work ethic and desire. It is the special athlete that possesses all 3 qualties that stand out.

In football this ability allows some runners to see the holes others miss. It allows QBs to see and anticipate receivers down field. I think Sam Bradford has this ability in spades and will be a great NFL QB because of it if he can ever stay healthy. I have a strong feeling that Perine possesses this skill. I guess time will tell.

[KantoSooner]

There was a guy at UC Davis in the late 1970's who was doing research into levels of concentration and whether it was truly possible to train yourself to enter 'the zone' voluntarily. He used as subjects extreme surfers and white water kayakers on the theory that they both knew that a fairly mundane mistake meant serious injury or death. I think his name was Robert Watters, but I'm not sure. Although it ultimately failed to provide a drug- or practice-based path to getting there (and, since it was the '70's, he did do some nice work with hallucinogens, hypnotics and adrenaline), he did come up with some interesting stuff among which was that a whole lot of what highly trained athletes do in the moment is completely sub-conscious, leaving their conscious brains free to deal with the 'big picture'. I'll see if I can find any papers; it's not the sort of thing UC would have put out on a data-base as I believe he left their employ, gasp, under a cloud.

[8timechamps]

Knight's career isn't over. That's a message board rumor that's gotten widespread attention.

First, his cousin (who posts on a different board) already debunked the rumor. Secondly, Stoops has already said he thinks Knight could be back as soon as the bowl game, and that the check-ups are going great and Knight is doing well.

The kid we're bringing in for the OU/OSU game is the kid that Mississippi State just screwed out of a scholarship. Heupel has always taken a QB in every class, and the other offers didn't seem to pan out. I don't think there's any urgency to get a QB in this class, but it's worth taking a shot at the kid if he's interested.

[Breadburner]

Knight needs to stay on the bench.....

[Eielson]

Okay, not circular. How about Ford would be a good back if he could do the critical task of hanging onto the ball more often? The injury thing and staying on the field applies to all players, of course. But no back is a good back if he fumbles too much - it's just part of the definition.

True. But I don't put fumbling in the category of speed, size, vision, hands, etc. Everybody should be able to hold onto the ball. It should be something that's easy to correct, but it's his 2nd year, and he's still struggling with it, so I'm not confident it will every be fixed. It's not like I said he'd be a great receiver if he were 5 inches taller.

[8timechamps]

Knight needs to stay on the bench.....

I'll be shocked if he returns before the spring.

[BoulderSooner79]

True. But I don't put fumbling in the category of speed, size, vision, hands, etc. Everybody should be able to hold onto the ball. It should be something that's easy to correct, but it's his 2nd year, and he's still struggling with it, so I'm not confident it will every be fixed. It's not like I said he'd be a great receiver if he were 5 inches taller.

I wasn't questioning his combine metrics. But even just considering Ford's pure running skills, the sample set is very small. And none of those carries came against really good competition except for a couple in the Sugar bowl last year. The Vols were decent, but hardly a good team and Ford missed all our critical tests (that we failed). We've seen flashes and he did win the starting job (but only because our coaches are idiots, apparently), so I don't doubt there is potential there. But if he resorts to instincts when running and that includes how he protects the ball, it won't matter and I define that as not being a good back.

[birddog]

Ford has a unique skill set. People instantly became enamored with his willingness to take on defenders when he hits the hole. He can also catch the ball pretty well on swings etc. I DO think the fumbling can be corrected but when you see Perine with that many carries without a fumble it's easy to go with the reliable freshman that owns the record for yards in a game.

As far as knight, if he plateaus like Landry he won't be our starter for long, not with the offense we try to run.

[SoonerForLife92]

Is marijuana legal in your state or something? Perine is already better than Ford...and, it isn't even close.

I've lived in Norman my entire life. I said this is assuming Ford can hold onto the ball and he recovers well from his injury (which he was still doing in the Kansas game). It is close whether you want to see it or not (assuming the things I said, which could be a big assumption i'll give you that). I won't post Perine's stats from the good defenses we have played as others have already done that. I think Ford still has better running vision (at least he used to)... but Perine is for sure better than Ford at the moment, I already conceded that fact. Learn to read all the posts in the thread.

[cvsooner]

Ford's a good back but his timing and rhythm are off. Hasn't quite learned to trust his leg yet and may not be 100 percent still. The fumbling is a bigger issue at the moment, but with people like Mixon and Brooks awaiting a turn, he's going to have to get it fixed.

[FaninAma]

There was a guy at UC Davis in the late 1970's who was doing research into levels of concentration and whether it was truly possible to train yourself to enter 'the zone' voluntarily. He used as subjects extreme surfers and white water kayakers on the theory that they both knew that a fairly mundane mistake meant serious injury or death. I think his name was Robert Watters, but I'm not sure. Although it ultimately failed to provide a drug- or practice-based path to getting there (and, since it was the '70's, he did do some nice work with hallucinogens, hypnotics and adrenaline), he did come up with some interesting stuff among which was that a whole lot of what highly trained athletes do in the moment is completely sub-conscious, leaving their conscious brains free to deal with the 'big picture'. I'll see if I can find any papers; it's not the sort of thing UC would have put out on a data-base as I believe he left their employ, gasp, under a cloud.

LOL. I think Timothy Leary was also doing some "research" along those lines. I had quite a few friends who were doing their own uncertified research, too.

[KantoSooner]

By the time I ran into this guy, he was in Alaska, making a living as an import car mechanic and hanging out with the guys who you've seen in the intro to Wide World of Sports going down that incredible white water (Devil's Gorge on the Susitna River, the first time it had ever been run, kind of the Everest of white water kayaking).
He kept trying to get them to try different combos of breathing/meditation...along with more pharma oriented methodologies. Not knowing who was doing what made for interesting river outings.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I have always felt that some great athletes possess a trait that separates them form the good or average athletes beyond mere physical talent like speed, size and quickness. I maintain that the truly great athletes in every sport possess a visual-spatial brain capability that allows them to see the field as well as allowing the game to slow down so that it becomes easier to play. I think this capability translates into the ability to "see the field" as some often state. But I also think it gives these athletes in the skill sports like baseball and tennis, an increased hand-eye coordination capability which translates into superior muscle memory which in turn leads to a higher skill level in the sport.

You can just see this in athletes like Tiger Woods, Madison Bumgarner and some of the great hitters in baseball. Babe Ruth looked like anything other than an awe inspiring athlete but he had hitting(and pitching) skills rarely seen in baseball. I understand physical talent certainly helps but there are a lot of physical specimen freaks who don't excel or reach the expected high level of achievement in the NFL and MLB. And you cannot discount work ethic and desire. It is the special athlete that possesses all 3 qualties that stand out.

In football this ability allows some runners to see the holes others miss. It allows QBs to see and anticipate receivers down field. I think Sam Bradford has this ability in spades and will be a great NFL QB because of it if he can ever stay healthy. I have a strong feeling that Perine possesses this skill. I guess time will tell.

I totally and 114% agree with this. There are some talents and strengths some kids are just born with. If they recognize it, they can be freak athletes.

My kids are at an age where they have been playing sports for two to three years now. My son is a big fella. He's only eight, on the cusp of nine, and already weighs between 95-100 pounds. He's not fat, he's just got a thick build. When he was born, he was 9 pounds, 14 ounces.

And, there's no reason for it. I've got a tall grandfather and uncles - all 6'2" or taller - on my mom's side, and a couple of 6'0" uncles on my dad's side. My wife's family, all of her uncles on both sides, parents, and grandparents are under 6'0".

I'm 5'9" and my wife is 5'1". So, when they pulled that boy out of her and I'm seeing his huge thighs and broad back, the first thing that pops into my minds is, "Holy cow, that little thing I married just popped out a linebacker!" (Second thing that crossed my mind is, "which one of my son of a b*tch friends is a big feller like that!")

Anyway, from the time my son started playing sports, I've had coaches pull me aside and ask me to put him in special camps and programs, playing up a level, etc. And, even then, I just told them no. I understand that he's bigger and stronger than most kids his age.

But, he's still just an eight year old kid, more interested in playing video games and watching cartoons than spending hours and hours with psychotic adults putting him through drills for baseball, football, soccer, etc. just because he could make their team better. Those type of adults need a swift kick in the nutsack, if you ask me...that and, very possibly, a lobotomy.

Again, some kids are just born with the knack for seeing the ball, having excellent hand-eye coordination, etc. I firmly believe that, although with years of hard work, a kid can improve some things somewhat, others are simply born with it.

My son was born thick. He's a big, thick kid. You can see that when he gets to the age where he can lift weights, he'll put on muscle quickly. Other people, like me...I can lift from sun up to sun down five days a week and I'll never get the Stallone/Schwarzenegger look...without steroids.

It's the same with speed. Deion Sanders was born with his speed. That's all there is to it.

I've argued this about quarterbacks as well. Trevor Knight is a fine athlete. But, he does not have that gift that the highest talent level quarterbacks have of being able to release the ball quickly enough when he sees a receiver break open. And, there's no shame in that - few athletes possess that.

Look, there are hundreds of kids on college rosters with QB by their names. But, only a few - I'd say less than 20 - can really whip that ball outta there when that receiver gets even a slight step. It's a gift those 20 or so kids are born with, and they recognized and developed.

You can look at athlete after athlete. Former Yankee Ron Guidry was about my size, a 160-165 pounder, but he could throw the ball damn near 100 miles per hour. There have been thousands of pitchers taller, bigger, and stronger than Guidry who couldn't throw the ball within 5-10 miles per hour of him.

Look at that little guy the Kansas City Royals have in their bullpen. God bless the kid, I think he's about 5'7" if you give him a phone book to stand on top of. But, he can throw that baseball like a cannon shot!

You do have recognize your skill and talent. But, some kids, they're just born stronger, faster, more agile.

This whole argument with Ford or Perine is ridiculous. Ford is a fine player. But, Perine...just watch him, then go watch clips of Earl Campbell, Bo Jackson, Ricky Williams, Herschel Walker...Perine is just that kind of player. He was born naturally strong; he is a man among boys out there.

All of those guys I mentioned, they were shut down from time to time. But, by and large, you gave them the ball 25-30 time a game and they produced big for their teams - college and pro. Our running backs haven't exactly had the luxury this season of a decent passing game to keep safeties honest. So, some teams have stacked the line against us, daring us to beat them with Knight and Thomas...and, that's what makes Perine all the more impressive to me as well.

By the way, I think the last player we had like Perine - and before Adrian Peterson - was Mike Gaddis. Those of us old enough to see him run live? There is no doubt in my mind that had he not had that freak injury - like Jason White's, knee buckling with no one touching him - he'd have been an All-American and played a long time in the NFL. Before his freak knee injury, Gaddis was a hell bent bruiser with speed to boot.