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  1. #21
    Emma's Daddy! SoonerStormchaser's Avatar
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Man...I actually clicked this thread expecting to read a bunch of whiny BS...instead I actually see some halfway to well-thought opinions on the subject.

    I like Bob...but he's proving to be loyal to a fault. What has made coaches like Saban so successful in the past decade? They go out and find the talented assistant/positional coaches who can best relate to and coach their players. When that coach gets hired somewhere else because of his success, they go and find the next one...they don't rest on their laurels and RARELY hire from within. And if it isn't working out, they send them packing. I'm sorry, but I just haven't seen this happen with Bob...and I don't think he will ever win another NC at OU so long as he continues this culture.

  2. #22
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    It kind of reminds me of Mack Brown. He hung on to some coaches too long and then it was too late. Seemed kind of desperate and sad at the end. I don't know who needs to go but I would like to see a badass defense again. And the offense doesn't seam like it has a plan. Just seems like they call whatever play. Its like whoever is calling the plays isn't watching the game or thinking about the situation. Maybe just it says on this here paper to call this play next. Whatever is going on, it doesn't look good. Looks novice at best.

  3. #23
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member birddog's Avatar
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Not sure about kish. His bio spans 30 years at various places and recently as dc for mikey. Maybe he was hired based on his time at Arizona. Bob said it would make for a "seamless" transition. BJW has been around forever(might as well bring back merv) so I'm ok with getting a new guy. The line coaches are new so I'd let them get their players in before giving em the axe. Heupel is too big for his khaki britches at this stage. Basically if I was Bob, a guy who is respected all over the country, I'd make some phone calls. I'm sure he's aware that the program has slipped and I believe he can fix it.

  4. #24
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    One thing we haven't discussed is when saban hired kiffen the president of the university didn't tell him no like boren did when bob wanted the fat man back.

    Hell, saban probably told his president after he hired kiffen.

  5. #25
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Tear Down This Wall's Avatar
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Quote Originally Posted by birddog View Post
    Not sure about kish. His bio spans 30 years at various places and recently as dc for mikey. Maybe he was hired based on his time at Arizona. Bob said it would make for a "seamless" transition. BJW has been around forever(might as well bring back merv) so I'm ok with getting a new guy. The line coaches are new so I'd let them get their players in before giving em the axe. Heupel is too big for his khaki britches at this stage. Basically if I was Bob, a guy who is respected all over the country, I'd make some phone calls. I'm sure he's aware that the program has slipped and I believe he can fix it.
    Let them "get their players"? What the hell is that? Did Bob Stoops have to wait to "get his players" before winning the national title in 2000. No! The 2000 starters were by far guys left over from Blake.

    Get coaches in here who can light a fire under the players' backsides the way Stoops' original staff did in 1999 and 2000. I guarantee you that the guys Bedenbaugh and Montgomery inherited when they were hired were by far better prospects than what Stoops' original staff inherited.

    You can either coach them or you can't. At a school like Oklahoma, the talent is there.

    "Get their players." Nuts. Every player on the roster they coach is their player from the day they sign on to become a coach here!
    "General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
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  6. #26
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Let's turn the game around just a bit. Instead of just listing who we'd fire, step up and tell us who you'd replace them with. I'm curious to see if any names start repeating.
    "I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown

  7. #27
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member birddog's Avatar
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tear Down This Wall View Post
    Let them "get their players"? What the hell is that? Did Bob Stoops have to wait to "get his players" before winning the national title in 2000. No! The 2000 starters were by far guys left over from Blake.

    Get coaches in here who can light a fire under the players' backsides the way Stoops' original staff did in 1999 and 2000. I guarantee you that the guys Bedenbaugh and Montgomery inherited when they were hired were by far better prospects than what Stoops' original staff inherited.

    You can either coach them or you can't. At a school like Oklahoma, the talent is there.

    "Get their players." Nuts. Every player on the roster they coach is their player from the day they sign on to become a coach here!
    Dude they haven't been here long enough to tell the 2 star guys that north Texas isn't a good academic school.

  8. #28

    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    As I said earlier in the season, I want a new defensive coordinator, a new quarterback, and a new offensive play caller. I was very pleased to read in today's Daily Oklahoman that Bob Stoops made it perfectly clear that every position will be open next year. He stated this in answer to a question concerning Trevor Knight. I'm hoping that our transfer from Texas Tech is the starting QB next year and that the other offensive coordinator calls the offensive plays next year. Obviously, I want Mike Stoops to go. I convinced that he isn't the right coach as Oklahoma's defensive coordinator.

  9. #29
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    We missed at Recruiting a solid Qb...It's that simple.....Maybe Mayfield is the answer to that hole in our game.....
    Hey... maybe T BOONE can pony up and start a Stilleater newspaper... but the players would probably just use it to roll the weed.

  10. #30
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    I think the get-back coach has done a stellar job - I can only recall a couple of sideline warnings.

  11. #31
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Breadburner View Post
    We missed at Recruiting a solid Qb...It's that simple.....Maybe Mayfield is the answer to that hole in our game.....
    I agree. It's such a critical position. We've had pretty good luck. But it happens. Look at Texas. They had VY then Colt but have struggled ever since. An int here, missed read there, hold the ball too long... plays that maybe don't seem huge but sometimes the difference between sustaining a drive and scoring as opposed to giving the ball back and sending the D back out. Enough adds up. I think Mayfield might be a decent stop gap. He seemed to be a pretty good qb. Most of the time they either have it or they don't. And if they don't they probably won't. I never got the sense LJ had "it" and same with TK. I appreciate that they are good guys and would never wish anything but the best for them. I just would prefer a more capable, perhaps dynamic, qb.

  12. #32

    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    I think some perspective is useful here. The loss to KSU was pretty flukey (and was only by 1 point), and the TCU loss is increasingly looking like a pretty reasonable game to lose (4 points on the road to a top 5 team). The Baylor loss was embarrassing, and clearly there are some major changes that need to happen, but they are also a top 10 team.

    Let's not get carried away, the discussions of getting rid of Stoops are ridiculous at this point. And it's not going to happen, so it's stupid to talk about.

    I agree with getting rid of Heupel and Kish. Heupel is pretty self-explanatory. If there was a way to keep him on as a QB coach, that would be ideal. Our QB production when Wilson was the OC and Heupel was the QB coach only was very good. We even won a Big 12 championship with a converted WR playing QB, and there was noticeable progression for the QBs over time. This has not been the case since Wilson left. Landry did not progress at all his final two years, Bell did not progress or improve much last year, and Knight continues to struggle a year and a half in with basic reads and decision-making. Moreover, the last several years, our offense has failed to establish a clear identity and to make adequate use of the skill sets that the QBs and other skill position athletes have. This has been discussed to death.

    The LB play has gone from a strength of the defense when Venables was here to a unit that has consistently struggled, even with fairly good talent. Also, from what I understand about recruiting, it seems like we are not getting our high priority LB targets, which suggests that he is also not a strong recruiter.

    I think it would be a mistake to get rid of the DL coach. Our DL has actually improved dramatically over the last two years, in terms of talent. The main problem with the DL right now is that our scheme essentially only rushes 3 on many downs, which makes it virtually impossible to generate pressure. Plus, the 3-4 dictates that your DL have to be bigger to eat up blocks against the run, so that limits your ability to generate a pass rush. Your pass rush should really be coming from the LBs or safeties on blitzes. When we sit back and rush 3, the DL is probably not going to be a major factor in the game, simply by scheme.

    Our secondary play has been poor. It is hard for me to know whether that is due to position coaching or the scheme. Very few DBs are going to look good when you give the opposing WRs huge cushions and then do not rush the passer aggressively. At that point, you let the offense completely dictate things, and it takes a very special kind of athlete in the secondary to make it work. It is also probably worth noting that the scheme may be a result of a lack of confidence in the back-end to hold up. Particularly at the safety position, it feels like we've gotten burned a lot this year when they have tried to play more aggressive man to man coverage. Prior to this year, however, we were actually much better in the secondary than we had been for the last couple of years under Venables.

    I do not think it is quite time to get rid of Mike Stoops, but I do think he needs to make some changes in the philosophy of the defense, to be more aggressive. If people beat us because they have better athletes or just make a bunch of great plays, that's acceptable. When people beat us because we more or less concede things to them, that's harder to accept. I would much rather go down swinging than sit back and get picked apart over and over. Not saying we need to send the house all game, but at least rush 4 (Striker or Grissom should be rushing the passer almost every down), and put the DBs in more aggressive coverage alignments. This super passive stuff just isn't going to work in modern college football.

  13. #33
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhombic21 View Post
    I agree with getting rid of Heupel and Kish. Heupel is pretty self-explanatory. If there was a way to keep him on as a QB coach, that would be ideal. Our QB production when Wilson was the OC and Heupel was the QB coach only was very good. We even won a Big 12 championship with a converted WR playing QB, and there was noticeable progression for the QBs over time. This has not been the case since Wilson left. Landry did not progress at all his final two years, Bell did not progress or improve much last year, and Knight continues to struggle a year and a half in with basic reads and decision-making. Moreover, the last several years, our offense has failed to establish a clear identity and to make adequate use of the skill sets that the QBs and other skill position athletes have. This has been discussed to death.
    Like a light switch.

    It goes back even further. When Heupel has been on the field (either as a player, a grad assistant, or a QB coach) our QB play has been outstanding. When he hasn't been on the field (coaching elsewhere, or in the booth) it has been average at best.

    I would be interested in at least (assuming Stoops isn't going to fire Heupel) having Heup back on the field, preferably starting right away, but if not then definitely starting next year. I can easily see how it would be totally different having to talk to your coach on a headset vs. having him right there. A lot of communication is non-verbal, for one thing. For another, on the field both Heup and the QB are looking at things from the same perspective. Heup may be missing certain cues due to that. The best situation, IMO, would be getting a fresh OC (whoever that may be) to replace Norvell and getting Heup to stay as QB coach.

  14. #34
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    This should be our main discussion for the first part of the offseason. I don't usually follow assistant coach moment very closely, so I'm not sure how quickly things will develop.

    Heupel needs to go, and maybe Norvell, but we're looking great at OL and RB. Norvell has brought in a lot of talent, but I'm not sold on how well he truly develops it.

    Monty is one of only two coaches I'm confident about not only bringing in great recruits, but also developing them. Oddly enough, those two guys are his most recent hires, so that's reason for optimism if he cleans house.

    We need to get rid of at least two of the other three defensive coaches. Major changes need to happen at DC, but I'd be fine if that came in the form of switching back to a 4-2-5 instead of completely replacing him (at least for now). I'd also be fine with getting rid of him, because what we're doing in the secondary isn't working.

    Definitely keep Gundy, Monty, and Bed. The rest can go, and Heupel HAS to go.

  15. #35
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    A good QB makes a coach look good. A good QB can help a mediocre defense. The problem is that except for last year's Sugar Bowl win, we haven't had good QB play in a while. So the problem is two-fold....is it poor recruiting or poor development? Either way it falls on the man who is over not only that position but the offense as a whole. Heupel. The buck stops there. I'm tired of calling out what the play is going to be and I never played a down on the defensive side of the ball a day in my life. I appreciate him as a player and always will, but he has to be let go as both OC and QB coach.

  16. #36
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Cale Gundy may be the only one. But I'm not sure how much is really just Perine being a star and him being a RBs coach. The rest should be looked at as being replaced. I haven't been a big fan of the play of any of the offense or defense that much.
    "Begging hands and bleeding hearts will only cry out for more" - Neil Peart

  17. #37
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Soonerjeepman's Avatar
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    so, how does the time table work out IF there are going to be changes. I can honestly say and believe that nothing will happen. He made a point in his presser to say OU is the only school to win min 8 games a year since 2000.

    I'd imagine that if we don't hear anything by the end of the week or early next week it will be status quo.

    Not only are other coaches needed to be hired, but I'm sure every recruit will be curious as well.
    How do you know if you get there, if you don't know where you are going?..oh and I had 1,713 post on the "other board"..I hate being a rookie again!

  18. #38
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 SoonerorLater's Avatar
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soonerjeepman View Post
    He made a point in his presser to say OU is the only school to win min 8 games a year since 2000.
    OK got it. Now 8 wins per year is the benchmark we need to be looking at.

  19. #39
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Jacie's Avatar
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Now, looking ahead to 12/30/15, what if Oklahoma sinks farther? What is the answer to the OP if we look back to now and wish the Sooners had won as many games next season as they did this one? Do we hold Bob to that 8-games/year standard and what if he falls below it?

  20. #40
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    Re: What Coaches Do You Want To Stay?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerorLater View Post
    OK got it. Now 8 wins per year is the benchmark we need to be looking at.
    I wouldn't say it's our benchmark, but it's an impressive statistic. If it were as easy to win 8 games year in and year out as most posters on here make it out to be, then we wouldn't be the only team capable of doing it.

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