LOL, My ? is, wth we don't have this in our O playbook if it's so hard to defend

[aurorasooner]

and the refs are being lenient with it. It appears to have been going on for a number of years, yet all we do is whine about it. I guess we need a tougher QB or an experienced BU QB for the coaches to have enough courage to run it.

I didn't notice it but did KSU have their OL running wild 3 yards down the field on pass plays.

Article over on ESPiN.

http://www.http://espn.go.com/blog/n...rule-addressed

Offenses are getting harder and harder to defend.

Big receivers are becoming common, slot receivers are as quick as ever and quarterbacks can use their arm or their feet to create nightmares for defensive coordinators. Add the creative game-planning from Big 12 offenses and it can leave opposing coordinators at a loss for words.

Oklahoma defensive coordinator Mike Stoops is not at a loss for words but he is looking for answers, sounding off against the rule that allows offensive linemen to block three yards downfield even when the ball is thrown.


Several teams have done a great job of putting defenses in lose-lose situations by utilizing the rule with creative schemes used by multiple offensive systems from “Air Raid” offenses to run-based spread attacks. He never referenced any team specifically but Stoops clearly remains frustrated with how to defend teams that use run-pass plays that include offensive linemen past the line of scrimmage after OU’s 31-30 loss to Kansas State, a team that has used the rule to create chaos for opposing defenses during the past few years.

“The linemen running down the field and trying to throw a pass when they’re five yards down the field, to me is ridiculous,” Stoops said on Tuesday evening. “Football has gotten to where it is stupid, letting guys run [running] plays then throw the ball. I’m just not a big fan of it -- it’s lenient and all of a sudden it’s three, four, five yards.

OU’s disappointing loss to Kansas State included a Wildcats touchdown pass to Glenn Gronkowski (see below), so Stoops' words sound like sour grapes that lingered into OU’s bye week even though he never referenced the Wildcats or any specific team while expressing his frustration with how the rule has been interpreted in recent years.

“We’re having a hard enough time [stopping it] and it just keeps expanding,” Stoops said. “It’s not supposed to be more than three yards but it seems like a very lax three yards.”

Stoops admitted there’s not much any defense can do to stop the creative schemes like the ones KSU and Auburn built upon the rule and used with success.

[Sooner91ATL]

There is something strange about sports. Some teams and individuals are just really good at certain plays/moves. It is almost inexplicable unless you could somehow breakdown every facet of mechanics, etc. My HS football coach announced in fall 2 a days that we were going to have a "bread and butter" play good for 4 yards a pop no matter what, called "23 blast" where the fullback led the tailback through the 2 hole with a pulling guard. We practiced it at least 10 reps every practice. Never ran it worth a darn. Instead, we had a nifty fullback dive over center that was good for about 5 every time we ran it. No explanation why that would be more effective than having a lead blocker and a pulling guard. When I was wrestling in HS and college, I had a move that was nearly unstoppable. Opponents would tell me at tournaments that they weren't going to let me use that move, but 80% of the time they went down with it. I couldn't do other moves for jack but for some reason this one was money. KSU just has the personnel to make that play work, and work well. Our money plays seem to be lateral passes to the flats. We do this better than most. Most of the time.

[cvsooner]

About the only way to defend that play is assign someone to the fullback and if he moves past the line of scrimmage, take him down. Cut his legs out, tackle him, something, but take him out and force the QB to make a different decision.

I rewatched the game yesterday (masochist that I am) and KSU also commits a significant amount of holding by their O Line. I know those rules have changed a lot since I was playing high school ball 40 years ago (man do I feel old!), but the stuff I was seeing would surely have drawn a flag back in the day.

[BermudaSooner]

This was one of the least penalized games I've ever seen...maybe those refs just don't throw flags. KSU only had 2 penalties called on them all day, and OU only had 3.

[SoonerorLater]

This was one of the least penalized games I've ever seen...maybe those refs just don't throw flags. KSU only had 2 penalties called on them all day, and OU only had 3.

Pretty good explanation at OU Breakdown. Apparently not only did KSU have linemen downfield but should have been called for pass interference.

http://oubreakdown.com/ksu-their-off...gal/#more-1338

[BoulderSooner79]

When I first started watching Oregon, I thought they had lineman down field on almost every pass play. Then watching more closely, they are pretty disciplined about that 3 yard thing. I didn't even know about the 3 yard rule as I thought it was strictly the LOS. Have to admit it is creative to take this rule to the edge, but I predict at some point they will have to change the rule a bit if the refs get sloppy with enforcement. It will also force every offense to have plays that do this even if that is not their style or they are at an extreme disadvantage. It also reduces the value of a pocket passer at the college level.

[8timechamps]

I think the spotlight has been put on that pop pass. I suspect the coaches of KSU's upcoming opponents will be all over the officials to call it, and everyone will be watching.

I don't think they'll be getting away with it at the same level they did Saturday.

[BoulderSooner79]

I think the spotlight has been put on that pop pass. I suspect the coaches of KSU's upcoming opponents will be all over the officials to call it, and everyone will be watching.

I don't think they'll be getting away with it at the same level they did Saturday.

Yep. And that also shows why it is part of the coaches job to work the refs during the game. If the coach complains too much, the refs will ignore them. If they save their complaints to point out legitimate issues, they'll get the call later in the game. Just look back at the FSU/ND game to see how important this can be. They ran the same play early in the game and got a TD, on the apparent winning TD, they got an offensive PI call. I'm sure FSU coaches were screaming foul after the first one.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Same thing happened after Baylor ran the pick plays against us last year..

[cvsooner]

I'd say Baylor finally got their comeuppance at Morgantown. 200+ yards in penalties? Holy cow.

Well-deserved, mind you, but cripes. That's a lot of negative yards.

[aurorasooner]

I'd say Baylor finally got their comeuppance at Morgantown. 200+ yards in penalties? Holy cow.

Well-deserved, mind you, but cripes. That's a lot of negative yards.

I heard Holgerson (sp-?) in his post game presser being asked "was he surprised by the penalties. He replied something like " No not watching the previous Baylor game films"

What it boils down to is sometimes you get a lazy officiating crew who just wants to catch their plane back home and they're not going to call any penalties whatsoever. Then you've got your "do it by the book" crews who call the game close, no matter what the circumstances (I would also venture that some of them (officials) are pressured by a network to end a game in a certain time frame depending on if there's a game following the one they're calling. But that's just pure speculation.)

I guess it pays in the close games for the staff to know the ""mo of the crew that's to call their upcoming game, plan accordingly, and be able to adjust for any discrepancies.

Looks like the Baylor/W Va crew was the latter, and ours (OU.KSU) wanted to catch the early flight.

I do correct my previous thoughts. After watching the game replay back, KSU, on a number of occasions had OL more than 3 yards down field on the passing plays, and I believe they only got flagged for it only once.

[Pride1Mom]

This was one of observations with Manzell at TX A&M running around and then passing. There is no way by that time that ineligible receivers were not down field. But then maybe SEC doesn't know about that rule. HYPE, HYPE, HYPE!!!!

[PalmBeachSooner]

About the only way to defend that play is assign someone to the fullback and if he moves past the line of scrimmage, take him down. Cut his legs out, tackle him, something, but take him out and force the QB to make a different decision.

I rewatched the game yesterday (masochist that I am) and KSU also commits a significant amount of holding by their O Line. I know those rules have changed a lot since I was playing high school ball 40 years ago (man do I feel old!), but the stuff I was seeing would surely have drawn a flag back in the day.

Were the OL past the umpire? He's the one who's going to make that call. Depending on where he positions himself that's where the line is drawn. Umpires are supposed to step toward the LOS.

[cvsooner]

Were the OL past the umpire? He's the one who's going to make that call. Depending on where he positions himself that's where the line is drawn. Umpires are supposed to step toward the LOS.

On several plays the O lineman is right on the edge or just past the three yard limit as the ball is leaving the QB's hand, so there is a little gray area, but the rule is that the lineman can't be past that three yards until the ball passes that three yards. And it's happening pretty fast, but I know it was only called once, after Stoops raised holy hell. Ironically, or typically, the call when it came was on one of the more borderline plays.

And, to be fair, our final TD pass to Neal, Ty Darlington is way out of position too but he's not engaging anybody.

[8timechamps]

On the Gronkowski TD play, the KSU right guard is clearly 4 yards down field (and blocking further as the ball is released) when Waters throws the ball. It just wasn't called.

The way to defend that play (and the way I think Mike Stoops coaches the defense to defend it) is to make sure the LB (depending on the side the FB releases) has to occupy the FB immediately out of the backfield. I believe Stoops said (in reference to that play) "Dom has to take him off his feet". Still, once a lineman passes the 3 yard limit, that's a key to the safety on the play that it's a run. If you don't call those kinds of penalties on a regular basis, you'r tipping the playing field in favor of the offense. I really hope the Big XII officials clamp down on that after what we saw.