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  1. #81
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
    2012 was a tie for first, and this season isn't over, so you're essentially looking at 2 non-continuous years and saying that discredits us as a national powerhouse. Even if we did go 4 years without a Big XII Title, you don't lose national powerhouse status for a 4 year stretch only winning 10+ games ever year.
    Did we get the Big XII BCS bid in 2012? No, that bid goes to the best team with the best record and tiebreaker win. It's a good thing we didn't too considering the thrashing Aggie put on us in the Cotton bowl.
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  2. #82
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
    2012 was a tie for first, and this season isn't over, so you're essentially looking at 2 non-continuous years and saying that discredits us as a national powerhouse. Even if we did go 4 years without a Big XII Title, you don't lose national powerhouse status for a 4 year stretch only winning 10+ games ever year.
    Counting 2012 is so aggie. Let's leave that to the Pokes. Everybody knows we weren't BXII champs that year. Even Bob kind of shrugs and says, "Well, those are the rules of the Big XII." Counting that is tantamount to Bama claiming 30 natties or whatever it is they claim.

  3. #83
    I'm a shootist Curly Bill's Avatar
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    There ya go, the Kool Aid drinkers are reduced to being Aggie to cover for their boy!
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  4. #84
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by EatLeadCommie View Post
    Counting 2012 is so aggie. Let's leave that to the Pokes. Everybody knows we weren't BXII champs that year. Even Bob kind of shrugs and says, "Well, those are the rules of the Big XII." Counting that is tantamount to Bama claiming 30 natties or whatever it is they claim.
    It's the nature of the new format. We tied for first. If we had a championship game, we would have played KSU for it. The Aggies claimed to be Big XII champs, even though they didn't even play in the championshp game. That's different.

    Regardless, we won in:

    2000
    2002
    2004
    2006
    2007
    2008
    2009
    2012 - Tie

    Pretty dominant if you ask me.

  5. #85
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    My Thoughts? We lost by ONE point to a team we were only ranked 3 spots ahead of. The didnt make as many mistakes as we did.
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  6. #86

    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by IGotNoTiming View Post
    Not paying attention to history makes history irrelevant. It is the best teacher. If you think getting rid of Stoops now is the answer, your are not only wrong. Players made the biggest mistakes today and that is going to happen. If you are so sure about your belief do me favor... Name me one coach who never lost a game they should have won.

    Your very narrow question misses the point. The point is that this is the 6th straight year that Stoops' team has not been in the running late in the season for a National Championship. You may not consider that a big deal. But I do. I believe 6 years is a significant amount of time and merits close scrutiny.

    And they WAY these teams are losing says a lot. Giving up many third down conversions on defense. Failing to convert many 3rd downs on offense. Consistent poor use of timeouts.

    According to Sporting News, Bob is the second highest paid coach this year behind Saban. He's in the top 1% for pay. Do you think the product (that he is ultimately responsible for) is an elite team? Is 5-2 and out of contention before November what passes for elite today?

    Name one season since the loss to Florida, when Oklahoma has been part of the championship discussion in the second half of November and first week of December?

  7. #87
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by olevetonahill View Post
    My Thoughts? We lost by ONE point to a team we were only ranked 3 spots ahead of. The didnt make as many mistakes as we did.
    Those aren't thoughts....thems facts.

    In all fairness we were whiney bitches long before OU rammed it up our cornholes, and long before Macks losing season.

  8. #88
    I'm a shootist Curly Bill's Avatar
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by olevetonahill View Post
    My Thoughts? We lost by ONE point to a team we were only ranked 3 spots ahead of. The didnt make as many mistakes as we did.
    ...and why do you suppose this is?
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  9. #89
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 SoonerorLater's Avatar
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by EatLeadCommie View Post
    Counting 2012 is so aggie. Let's leave that to the Pokes. Everybody knows we weren't BXII champs that year. Even Bob kind of shrugs and says, "Well, those are the rules of the Big XII." Counting that is tantamount to Bama claiming 30 natties or whatever it is they claim.
    And yet there the trophy is, in the case. This isn't something new. In 1975 we were co-champs with Nebraska after we beat them head to head. In 1978 were co-champs with Nebraska and they beat us head to head. Happened again in 1984 with Nebraska. Nobody thought this was unfair at all. Head to head is not the be all and end all because it only figures one side of the equation.

  10. #90

    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly Bill View Post
    ...and why do you suppose this is?
    Go easy Curly…that's a question many on this board aren't quite ready to get an answer for.

  11. #91
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 aurorasooner's Avatar
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
    It's the nature of the new format. We tied for first. If we had a championship game, we would have played KSU for it. The Aggies claimed to be Big XII champs, even though they didn't even play in the championshp game. That's different.

    Regardless, we won in:

    2000
    2002
    2004
    2006
    2007
    2008
    2009
    2012 - Tie

    Pretty dominant if you ask me.
    Agree, but it sure seems like it's been 10 years though since the last uncontested one. I guess that's the nature of the monster. Sure hope Bob can get a couple of more and he doesn't go out sucking hind tit like Mack did. Just don't think he will w/o some more in-house coaching shake ups though.

  12. #92
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Lots of good posts in this thread. Yes, we lost by 1 to a team ranked 3 spots behind us but I think alot of us mistakenly thought we were better than our current ranking and this was a game to start showing it. Obviously, we didn't even deserve that ranking. It seems like we continually fall short. When is the last time we would have played Bama and been the favorite? It's been a while. I too thought we turned a corner in the Sugar Bowl only to get slammed down to the reality of yet another disappointing season. I don't have any reason to think anything will be different next year.

  13. #93

    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Lots of good posts in this thread. Yes, we lost by 1 to a team ranked 3 spots behind us but I think alot of us mistakenly thought we were better than our current ranking and this was a game to start showing it. Obviously, we didn't even deserve that ranking. It seems like we continually fall short. When is the last time we would have played Bama and been the favorite? It's been a while. I too thought we turned a corner in the Sugar Bowl only to get slammed down to the reality of yet another disappointing season. I don't have any reason to think anything will be different next year.
    Unfortunately, I agree with everything you say.

  14. #94

    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    After watching some more football today I was quickly reminded how lucky we actually are as Sooner fans. There are a lot of horrible teams that would be a real drag to be a fan of. It's disappointing going another year without championship hopes, but things could be way worse as a fan.

  15. #95
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly Bill View Post
    ...and why do you suppose this is?
    Let me play...

    Because K-State is better coached. Of course, K-State made more mistakes against Auburn, so I guess Auburn is better coached. And of course, Auburn made more mistakes against Mississippi State, so I guess Mississippi State is better coached. And of course, Mississippi State lost 6 games with the same coach last year, so I suppose all those teams are better coached (which includes OSU, and oddly enough, Auburn...who is now not as well coached as Mississippi State).

  16. #96
    Sooner Benchwarmer Sooner Schemer's Avatar
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Snrinhouston View Post
    Well, that's where Boren and Castiglione will have to earn their money, won't they? A program depends on players, coaches, and administration. Administration will have to do its job.
    Boren can't even hire a decent Band Director.

  17. #97
    I'm a shootist Curly Bill's Avatar
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
    Let me play...

    Because K-State is better coached. Of course, K-State made more mistakes against Auburn, so I guess Auburn is better coached. And of course, Auburn made more mistakes against Mississippi State, so I guess Mississippi State is better coached. And of course, Mississippi State lost 6 games with the same coach last year, so I suppose all those teams are better coached (which includes OSU, and oddly enough, Auburn...who is now not as well coached as Mississippi State).
    Ohhhh golly gee, a game of gymnastic relativism.

    But you get partial credit for getting the first part right - KSU was the better coached team today.
    Behold the pale horse. The man who sat on him was death, and Hell followed with him.

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  18. #98

    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    I don't quite understand the sooner apologists. To me, they are trying to convince everyone that this coaching staff has not underachieved with the talent we have had over the last decade with reasons of "At least we aren't Vanderbilt fans". Or "He is a better coach than John Blake".

    No one is really arguing that we are Big 12 bottom dwellers or that Stoops is losing 7 games a year. But I think it is reasonable to conclude that 2005-present has yielded a significant drop off from 1999-2004.

    Some will rebut that by asking, "What about 2008?" Well, what about it, our staff had an offense that could put up 60 per game, yet still loss two games, one in part thanks to horrendous play calling at the goal line.

    Let us not also forget 2007. I believe the talent of that team is massively understated, and we were more than capable of winning a title, especially that year when teams were just giving it away, but an abysmal lost to Colorado kept up out. (I won't even start with the miserable failure that was the fiesta bowl).

    Since then, we have been no where near contention, awful losses all over the place, 3 quarterbacks whose abilities have been crippled due to coach blundering, and now here we are in 2014 with maybe our most complete team in terms of talent since 2003, and we've already lost two games.

    We have three good running backs, a much improved line, and a third year quarterback who is extremely mobile and a stud WR, and we can't move the ball consistently (point to this game all you want, Ill change my tune once I see this more often, and even then, offensive coaching blunders led to burning much needed timeouts, not to mention inexplicable abandoning formations that were effective)

    I've seen some winning percentages being thrown around. Of course stoops wins games. No one is saying he is a terrible coach. But coaches like Lloyd Carr and Mack Brown (up until the last few years) have high winning percentages as well, are they automatically elite coaches? No, they are above average coaches that can recruit well, but with a history of blowing big games and underachieving with talent they bring in.

    Call me spoiled all you want, I am not throwing a hissy fit. There are more important things in life to get upset about. But I am stating the truth, and the truth is that Stoops has not been an elite coach since 2004. Not terrible, but not elite.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheHumanAlphabet View Post
    Boren has become a PC babbling idiot and a megalomaniac leader. All he wants is a place in history and memories like Cross. After what he did to The Pride, I will not support him or donate to the University until he leaves.

  19. #99
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    Re: K-State loss/game thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly Bill View Post
    Ohhhh golly gee, a game of gymnastic relativism.

    But you get partial credit for getting the first part right - KSU was the better coached team today.
    It's Bill freakin' Snyder. As far as not making mistakes go, you can't get better than that. Yet even his team made a lot of similar mistakes, and it cost them the game against Auburn.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by manateepower View Post
    I don't quite understand the sooner apologists. To me, they are trying to convince everyone that this coaching staff has not underachieved with the talent we have had over the last decade with reasons of "At least we aren't Vanderbilt fans". Or "He is a better coach than John Blake".

    No one is really arguing that we are Big 12 bottom dwellers or that Stoops is losing 7 games a year. But I think it is reasonable to conclude that 2005-present has yielded a significant drop off from 1999-2004.

    Some will rebut that by asking, "What about 2008?" Well, what about it, our staff had an offense that could put up 60 per game, yet still loss two games, one in part thanks to horrendous play calling at the goal line.

    Let us not also forget 2007. I believe the talent of that team is massively understated, and we were more than capable of winning a title, especially that year when teams were just giving it away, but an abysmal lost to Colorado kept up out. (I won't even start with the miserable failure that was the fiesta bowl).

    Since then, we have been no where near contention, awful losses all over the place, 3 quarterbacks whose abilities have been crippled due to coach blundering, and now here we are in 2014 with maybe our most complete team in terms of talent since 2003, and we've already lost two games.

    We have three good running backs, a much improved line, and a third year quarterback who is extremely mobile and a stud WR, and we can't move the ball consistently (point to this game all you want, Ill change my tune once I see this more often, and even then, offensive coaching blunders led to burning much needed timeouts, not to mention inexplicable abandoning formations that were effective)

    I've seen some winning percentages being thrown around. Of course stoops wins games. No one is saying he is a terrible coach. But coaches like Lloyd Carr and Mack Brown (up until the last few years) have high winning percentages as well, are they automatically elite coaches? No, they are above average coaches that can recruit well, but with a history of blowing big games and underachieving with talent they bring in.

    Call me spoiled all you want, I am not throwing a hissy fit. There are more important things in life to get upset about. But I am stating the truth, and the truth is that Stoops has not been an elite coach since 2004. Not terrible, but not elite.
    Yup. Except TK is a 2nd yr QB
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