Knight/Read Option

[BoulderSooner79]

He also needs some help by way of receivers catching the ball. I was impressed that he went back to Neal right after the drop (against WVU), but Neal didn't help the situation by dropping it again. However, he went back to Neal a little later (I think the next drive), so he does have confidence in him, he just needs the guys around him to be a little more consistent.

Totally agree the biggest issue in the passing game is the receivers playing better. I don't think drops has been a big problem outside the Neal back-to-back drops in the last game. There will always be drops and it's just comes with throwing the ball. The bigger issue is creating separation and timing - the bread and butter of the passing game. Those should improve with experience or else our guys are just not that good. I think we've already seen improvement. I really wish one our young, big guys would improve enough to get onto the field. You can't teach being taller.

[SoonerForLife92]

You'd think everyone would understand your logic. It's not hard...we have plenty of production in the backfield, and we're 4-0, why use the QB run game? Yet, for some reason, there are a fair amount of folks that don't seem to understand.

And you guys don't seem to understand our runningbacks and o-line won't be able to be as productive every game as they have thus far. Plus with our young receviers it would be nice for Knight to run more while they are improving.

You usually know what you're talking about and I completely agree Knight should not run often. However you are all acting like the guy doesn't know how to slide. As was said he could run even 1-3 times a game off the read option and that would make the defense hesitate more. We will have to use it at some point and he needs to have more game experience with it in my opinion. Mostly my opinion is based on our receivers slowiy gaining improvement and until they are at the level they need to be, it would open up the offense to have Knight run at least just a couple times a game.

You are completely right we are 4-0 against some good teams thus far, but as i'm sure you would agree our defense has been the biggest factor in those games. We haven't needed it but like I said earlier there were times in the wvu he could have kept it for a big chunk of yards and had plenty of time to slide. Would have helped with our 3rd down conversions which is a bad stat (at this point in the season at least) no matter how many offensive yards we have.

Your point of view is the better one, but i'm surprised you seem to be implying the read option won't be important for this team at some point down the road.

[manateepower]

If you want to watch tricked up football, follow Texas Tech or Texas A&M and whichever the hell school is stupid enough to hire Mike Leach: Lots of tricked up yardage on offense, and zero championships to show for it.

This statement is LOL awful.

Mike Leach took over an offense in 1999 that had been God Awful over the last decade and make them an offensive Juggarnaut over night.

Then he goes to Texas Tech and they have the ten years of football they have ever had BY FAR. Including a run at the National Championship in 2008.

So we didn't win it all at Tech? You do realize they aren't exactly a powerhouse right?



An another note. I think pulling out rushing stats and win loss records to make your argument that Trevor Knight does not need to run more is a bit short sighted. As the season progresses and the competition gets tougher, we will need to find more ways to continue moving the ball against better defenses.

Poor, repetitive play calling has cost us more than a handful of games from 2007 on at least (when I really started focusing on football, it might have gone back further than that), and I am afraid that the hesitancy to use Knight as a runner might cost a game at some point.

[8timechamps]

And you guys don't seem to understand our runningbacks and o-line won't be able to be as productive every game as they have thus far. Plus with our young receviers it would be nice for Knight to run more while they are improving.

That's speculation. There's no way to know whether or not our backs can continue to be as productive. We have one of the best (and biggest) O-lines in the country, and a few very talented backs...I'd say there's a good chance we will continue to be productive.

You usually know what you're talking about and I completely agree Knight should not run often. However you are all acting like the guy doesn't know how to slide. As was said he could run even 1-3 times a game off the read option and that would make the defense hesitate more. We will have to use it at some point and he needs to have more game experience with it in my opinion. Mostly my opinion is based on our receivers slowiy gaining improvement and until they are at the level they need to be, it would open up the offense to have Knight run at least just a couple times a game.

You are completely right we are 4-0 against some good teams thus far, but as i'm sure you would agree our defense has been the biggest factor in those games. We haven't needed it but like I said earlier there were times in the wvu he could have kept it for a big chunk of yards and had plenty of time to slide. Would have helped with our 3rd down conversions which is a bad stat (at this point in the season at least) no matter how many offensive yards we have.

Your point of view is the better one, but i'm surprised you seem to be implying the read option won't be important for this team at some point down the road.

Let me clarify, Knight's running ability will absolutely be needed at some point this season, and for all the reasons you listed. There's not much point in having a dual threat QB if you never allow him to utilize half his skills.

My point (which wasn't specifically being addressed at you) is that to this point there's no reason to be upset that Knight hasn't run the ball. If we can get 200 yards a game from our backs, and keep separation on the scoreboard, then there's no reason for Knight to run, but we both know there will be times when that part of is game is needed.

I think we're on the same page, I know Knight will have to run, and you know that it hasn't been needed yet.

[cherokeebrewer]

When we need Trevor Knight to run, he will run. I'm fairly certain Bob Stoops understands that, not so sure about some of our fans...

[Eielson]

This statement is LOL awful.

Mike Leach took over an offense in 1999 that had been God Awful over the last decade and make them an offensive Juggarnaut over night.

Then he goes to Texas Tech and they have the ten years of football they have ever had BY FAR. Including a run at the National Championship in 2008.

Amen. Sumlin and Leach aren't Meyer and Saban, but they're two of the finer coaches in college football.

[BoulderSooner79]

When we need Trevor Knight to run, he will run. I'm fairly certain Bob Stoops understands that, not so sure about some of our fans...

^This exactly. Stoops has been straight forward with this issue which is not typical of a coach. He has stated he wants to protect TK in order to win a championship. He doesn't normally talk this way as he would usually use the "one game at a time" cliche. To be talking championship at this point in the season speaks volumes. I interpret that as saying he's willing to win a game by 2 touchdowns and protect TK instead of winning by 4 touchdowns by letting him run. There is risk both ways as a 2 score lead can evaporate with a couple of fluke plays, but an extended loss of TK would lose it all. He is choosing to take the former risk and trust the other parts of the team to back him up. But since the goal is a championship (and I don't think he means conference), he would certainly change modes if and when it comes to that.

I also think fans are being a little narrow in their thinking that the true zone read will cure all ills. Yes it looks wide open for TK to keep exactly because he isn't doing it. If he rips off a couple of big runs, the defense will adjust and the read to keep it wouldn't be there that often anyway. Yes, it would make the run game more dangerous, but a defense can stack the box against the run AND take away the QB option. There is no way around having to be effective in the passing game in order to be an elite team.

[SoonerorLater]

Just the threat of the QB keeper off the zone read can be as effective as the actual QB run. That's why they keep the zone read look on the designated hand-offs. I looked at the WV game and just the possibility kept the DE from crashing down. If we take one DL out of the play then our backs will most generally win the war.

[Tear Down This Wall]

You'd think everyone would understand your logic. It's not hard...we have plenty of production in the backfield, and we're 4-0, why use the QB run game? Yet, for some reason, there are a fair amount of folks that don't seem to understand.

They commit the cardinal sin of watching other, lesser football programs during our bye weeks, then coveting the offenses of said other, lesser programs. Last weekend, the chief smoke-blower on the tube happened to be the Texas version of Aggy.

This should be the main thrust of OU's game plan for the rest of the this season and the other two seasons Perine will play here before he turns pro:

(1) Hand the ball to Perine and watch him grind the opposing linemen, linebackers, and erstwhile safeties into the turf...those he isn't carrying on his back, anyway.
(2) Kick the extra point.

[mainline13]

Anyone commenting on grammar when most are using iPhones these days shouldn't give advice what is pertinent to an argument-ever...

Should we continue with "Anyone who owns a smart phone and doesn't know how to use it properly ...."?

Nah, let's not. It was a little bitty typo.

[manateepower]

They commit the cardinal sin of watching other, lesser football programs during our bye weeks, then coveting the offenses of said other, lesser programs. Last weekend, the chief smoke-blower on the tube happened to be the Texas version of Aggy.

This should be the main thrust of OU's game plan for the rest of the this season and the other two seasons Perine will play here before he turns pro:

(1) Hand the ball to Perine and watch him grind the opposing linemen, linebackers, and erstwhile safeties into the turf...those he isn't carrying on his back, anyway.
(2) Kick the extra point.

And you commit the cardinal sin by assuming that perine is going to rush for 200 plus yards every week based on one game and therefore there is no reason to expand outside of that.

[BoulderSooner79]

They commit the cardinal sin of watching other, lesser football programs during our bye weeks, then coveting the offenses of said other, lesser programs. Last weekend, the chief smoke-blower on the tube happened to be the Texas version of Aggy.

This should be the main thrust of OU's game plan for the rest of the this season and the other two seasons Perine will play here before he turns pro:

(1) Hand the ball to Perine and watch him grind the opposing linemen, linebackers, and erstwhile safeties into the turf...those he isn't carrying on his back, anyway.
(2) Kick the extra point.

There are defenses that can stop this if they overload against it. There is no defense that can stop everything that a balanced offense can throw at them.

[Sooner91ATL]

I don't think we are going to run for a lot of yards this week, I don't care if it's Sims, Peterson, or Owens in the backfield. So I sure hope TK is spot on with his passes, and the receivers are getting some separation. If I were Patterson I would put 8 in the box and dare us to throw successfully. We're likely to see a lot of 3rd and 8s this week.

[BoulderSooner79]

I don't think we are going to run for a lot of yards this week, I don't care if it's Sims, Peterson, or Owens in the backfield. So I sure hope TK is spot on with his passes, and the receivers are getting some separation. If I were Patterson I would put 8 in the box and dare us to throw successfully. We're likely to see a lot of 3rd and 8s this week.

Pretty much guaranteed. I would guess more a lot of 3rd and 5s than 3rd and 8s, but same idea. I wouldn't be surprised to see an old fashion defensive battle.

[8timechamps]

I don't think we are going to run for a lot of yards this week, I don't care if it's Sims, Peterson, or Owens in the backfield. So I sure hope TK is spot on with his passes, and the receivers are getting some separation. If I were Patterson I would put 8 in the box and dare us to throw successfully. We're likely to see a lot of 3rd and 8s this week.

I think the weakness of this TCU defense (not that it's huge) is their run defense. Last year, we gained 200+ yards against them (granted 75 of that came off of one run), and we are as good, if not better at every position in the run game this year. I don't know if we'll go for over 200 yards, but we should have our share of success.

Patterson will absolutely stack the box this week. Like Stoops said yesterday, the last 12 games we've played the defense has stacked the box, so it's nothing new.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I think the weakness of this TCU defense (not that it's huge) is their run defense. Last year, we gained 200+ yards against them (granted 75 of that came off of one run), and we are as good, if not better at every position in the run game this year. I don't know if we'll go for over 200 yards, but we should have our share of success.

Patterson will absolutely stack the box this week. Like Stoops said yesterday, the last 12 games we've played the defense has stacked the box, so it's nothing new.

TCU likes to stop the run and usually does a pretty good job at it...except against Oklahoma. They pack their linebackers in tight out of their 4-2-5 and do anything and everything to take away the inside run game. While this is largely effective, it can bite them and hard. Oklahoma has actually rushed for more yards than anyone else the past two seasons against TCU.

Oklahoma had 177 rushing yards in 2012 against TCU and then 203 rushing yards last season against TCU. In 2012, Williams ripped off a 66 yard TD run and last season, Clay had thati 76 yard TD run. It's tough to get past that TCU defensive front, but when you do, it's going to almost always go the distance.

I think TCU can be exposed by throwing to the tight-end position because of what they do with their linebackers. Minnesota is a terrible passing team (99 passing yards per game), but even they hit their tight-end 3 times including a TD for a score. I wouldn't be surprised if Bell gets more action in this game than any game prior and the same goes for Knight running the ball IF Oklahoma's offense isn't being overly productive in the 1st half. It will be more interesting this year since Oklahoma will be fielding a mobile QB, something they didn't have with Bell (solid straight-line runner, but no lateral mobility) or Jones.

As far as TCU's offense, they don't concern me in the least. Their skill positions are severely lacking and their ground game depends too much on Boykin who while a solid runner, is no game-braker with his legs.

[Sooner91ATL]

With two weeks to prepare, I am confident that we will scheme up TCUs defense to work to our strength. if we can get perimeter blocks and hit the corner quickly it can seal those LBs for some big lanes. Plus by quarter 4, our back rotation and big hits from Rip will wear those guys down. I still don't see us scoring a lot as I think TCU is well coached and talented on D. But who knows - if our o is clicking in all phases I think we can hang 50 on most anyone.

As to the topic of this thread, I really like what Stoops said in his presser about balance. To him it's not about having equal stats in run/pass, it's about being able to exploit the other team's weaknesses. That can mean 400 yards passing and less than 100 yards rushing for a W (Sugar Bowl) or 300 yards rushing and 150 passing and a W (WVU). (estimating stats of course). I am not so worried about Knight not running the ball. I think the coaches want to win games, and I think they want to protect Knight. Ergo, when they feel like they need to use his run game, they won't hesitate to do so if it will get the W. But they won't use him in a game we are dominating in the trenches. Against WVU the end was looking in a lot which left lanes open on the corner for Knight. But it is kind of like a chicken and egg thing - was he looking in because we handed off the ball to Perine every play? And when Perine pops off for 13 and a first down, it doesn't make much sense to expose Knight to contact if not needed. There is nobody close to Knight in the QB chain unless Bell is secretly getting some snaps. The young'uns aren't ready yet.

[hawaii 5-0]

Don't know when it'll be but one of these games Knight is gonna discover a TE out there named Bell and he'll (Bell) have a big game.


5-0

[BoulderSooner79]

A good example of importance of protecting the QB is playing on the NFL. Bridgewater lights 'em up last week and the Vikings gain the most yardage of any game since '04. But then he sprains an ankle trying to run near the end of the game and the Vikings with Ponder are getting hammered tonight.

[EatLeadCommie]

Bumping this thread because I think it's worth considering again. In a game like today where we clearly could've used some zone read, we had TK there again just handing it off. He wasn't even bothering to read the D. Is this because of instruction or because he is bad at reading the D? One would think that he would be unleashed today to actually run zone read plays and not just go through the motions, but who knows. This is why I think it is important for him to actually run it in meaningless games, even if it runs the risk of him getting hit and hurt. If you don't practice it in real time against scrubs, how are you going to run it against real competition? And why have a running QB if you aren't going to let him run?