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  1. #1
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Can we legally fight ISIS?

    That question was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. The reason I ask it is that some on here have had a hissy fit because we killed an Al Qaeda leader who happened to be a US Citizen.

    Now if we happen to be fighting ISIS and we suspect there may be a US citizen in a truck we're about to bomb, do we have to hold back and attempt to arrest them and make sure they get due process?

    I imagine some of you will say it's different because we targeted that one guy. I don't see the difference. Once you join our enemy in an active military conflict you are an enemy combatant and should no longer be given protections as a US citizen. Seems pretty simple to me.

  2. #2
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 SoonerorLater's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    This is one I having been harping about for a long while. This is something that needs to be addressed by Congress (good luck to us all with that) As is, we are geared around fighting sovereign nations not the non-state sanctioned enemies we face today. We may well need to redefine what war is or define conflict on a tiered system.

  3. #3
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Soonerjeepman's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    I agree with jk, they've renounced their citizenship as soon at they joined the other group.
    How do you know if you get there, if you don't know where you are going?..oh and I had 1,713 post on the "other board"..I hate being a rookie again!

  4. #4
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soonerjeepman View Post
    I agree with jk, they've renounced their citizenship as soon at they joined the other group.
    How do we know that? Its not like they are lining up to denounce citizenship and then become affiliated with a non-state entity. This is just odd legally. We have mechanism to declare war on states, not ideological constructs. I am sure the government legal minds are working on this, but I wonder... Can we go to war in another state, that doesn't have a political entity in disagreement with us, but has uncontrolled territory led by the ideological construct?
    Everything progressives do is aimed at weakening democracy, capitalism and the social and cultural institutions that support those things...... They are about subjugating people and being a ruling class.

  5. #5
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 dwarthog's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Are there two scenarios in play here?

    Drone attacks specifically targeting an American citizen walking down the street so to speak vs American citizens actively engaged in a battle?

  6. #6
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member FaninAma's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Yes we can. Especially if Congress authorizes it. Your example of the hit on the US citizen via drone strike is a straw man. The opposition to that was based on the fact it was a star chamber order by the POTUS made unilaterally without any input from the legislative or judicial branches. It sets a dangerous precedent and allows the President to have incredible power over life and death of US citizens. You do know he killed al-Alaqui's 17 year old son in a SEPARATE attack don't you?
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  7. #7
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 dwarthog's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    I'll ask it this way. Are there two different classifications here.

    One of a "shoot on sight" terrorist which is ostentsibly the grouping where al-Alaqui fell, and subsequently his son by association since he was with other members of this grouping two weeks later when he got hit vs a different designation which covers the field of combat or are all cases covered under the terrorist classification umbrella?

  8. #8
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    IMO, if they sign up to train/fight, especially in a foreign country, then
    they are fair game. That kid from Minnesota that was killed in a firefight
    between ISIS and Al Queda signed up. It is no different in my mind who
    he is fighting he is a combatant. Besides, he had a US passport and can
    travel to Europe or here...so, it appears to me that there is a clear and
    present danger to the Homeland, when US passport holders can sign up
    to train and then come back to the US to do who knows what....jus sayin..

  9. #9
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    If they wanta join the Mooslum arseholes then Kill em all and let God figure it out if he wants to.
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  10. #10
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Dang. My thread turned into a really good discussion. Might be a first for me.

  11. #11
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by jkjsooner View Post
    Dang. My thread turned into a really good discussion. Might be a first for me.
    Not so fast - I haven't piped in. I doubt you would get many folks to say we should try to pick out US citizens and arrest them while trying to kill the pack of terrorist they are fighting with. Maybe we find their smoking passport after the fact and say "oops".

    But I do think the issue could come up for real on US soil. Think of a wanted terrorist spotted by police drone. He's driving a rental truck that was seen at a fertilizer plant. Arrest him or take him out?

  12. #12
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member FaninAma's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    I have a problem with one individual or government agency being judge, jury and executioner in regards to accused US citizens.
    Beware the man who would rule you for your own good. He will never cease. He will regulate every aspect of your life, destroy your liberty and enslave you, and sleep well convinced that he has made the world a better place.

  13. #13
    Stayatworkdad yermom's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    If they are literally fighting that is one thing

    Just assassinating people with no trial seems a road we shouldn't go down

  14. #14
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by yermom View Post
    If they are literally fighting that is one thing

    Just assassinating people with no trial seems a road we shouldn't go down
    Kinda agree Bro. But lets throw in that IF they are Helping to Plan and carry out attacks then that be same as Fighting.
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  15. #15
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by FaninAma View Post
    I have a problem with one individual or government agency being judge, jury and executioner in regards to accused US citizens.
    Welp, if these folks declare themselves to be jihadists, freely and openly,
    it seems to me that they have turned their collective backs on the US of A.
    In which case, then, ummm, lessee, drones, Seal Team Six, JSOG, F-18's,
    U-2's snooping around, fire control at CentCom, cruise missiles locked in
    from battle groups and various and sundry a$$ kickin' stuff that ISIS have
    not even dreamed about, should rain down and, IMO, NO FRIGGIN' EXCUSES,
    mess the bull and get the horn...turn that desert to glass...but, that's JMO...

  16. #16
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by rock on sooner View Post
    Welp, if these folks declare themselves to be jihadists, freely and openly,
    it seems to me that they have turned their collective backs on the US of A.
    In which case, then, ummm, lessee, drones, Seal Team Six, JSOG, F-18's,
    U-2's snooping around, fire control at CentCom, cruise missiles locked in
    from battle groups and various and sundry a$$ kickin' stuff that ISIS have
    not even dreamed about, should rain down and, IMO, NO FRIGGIN' EXCUSES,
    mess the bull and get the horn...turn that desert to glass...but, that's JMO...
    And, no, my name is NOT McCain or Graham....

  17. #17
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by rock on sooner View Post
    And, no, my name is NOT McCain or Graham....
    I stole yer password LOL
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  18. #18
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by olevetonahill View Post
    I stole yer password LOL
    Normally, I'm pragmatic and measured in my approach, but, ima jus
    sayin, those sob's are fair game!

  19. #19
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Soonerjeepman's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by rock on sooner View Post
    Welp, if these folks declare themselves to be jihadists, freely and openly,
    it seems to me that they have turned their collective backs on the US of A.
    In which case, then, ummm, lessee, drones, Seal Team Six, JSOG, F-18's,
    U-2's snooping around, fire control at CentCom, cruise missiles locked in
    from battle groups and various and sundry a$$ kickin' stuff that ISIS have
    not even dreamed about, should rain down and, IMO, NO FRIGGIN' EXCUSES,
    mess the bull and get the horn...turn that desert to glass...but, that's JMO...
    yup
    How do you know if you get there, if you don't know where you are going?..oh and I had 1,713 post on the "other board"..I hate being a rookie again!

  20. #20
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Can we legally fight ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by rock on sooner View Post
    Normally, I'm pragmatic and measured in my approach, but, ima jus
    sayin, those sob's are fair game!
    I kinda agree bro. Some one who travels to a foreign country breaking the law in the process, to fight for those kind of animals are putting their lives on the line and deserve what they get.

    I wouldnt have a Prob if one of em was here and Planning a Bombing of dropping a HellFire in their back pocket. I understand the Fine line of some ******* just sayin they think the Jihadist is going to do something so lets kill him.

    It should have some very strict oversight to the Process.
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