OU Trying to Suspend Frank Shannon For The Year

[Sooner in Tampa]

"

"Betrayed by the University?" If you do not put yourself in compromising situations then these things do not happen. Everyone has a "DO NOT DO THIS" message in their brain, but when you ignore it, there will be consequences.

Come on now...that seems a just a tad bit condescending and judgmental to me...The accounts I read simply said she needed a ride home and he offered it to her. They "ended" up in the bedroom (not clear who took off her britches, one report said she did...another report said he did), he asked her if Aunt Flow was in town and she affirmed that...so he left.

I fail to see where the DO NOT DO THIS message comes into play...sounds like most Friday or Saturday nights in a ton of college towns...

[cvsooner]

NPR had an excellent story yesterday on the air about the increasing awareness and action required to address the problem of sexual assault.

http://www.npr.org/2014/08/12/339822...-new-attention

Also, this column by Lt. Col. Bob Bateman about the problems at the US Air Force Academy is simultaneously disturbing and enlightening. Here's the link followed by a few paragraphs I thought particularly interesting.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politic...nd_My_Brothers

"Here is the bottom line to the story you will find here. Rape and drug use were apparently common at the Air Force Academy among the members of their football team. My bet is that they still are, in pockets, and probably growing. But a few years ago there was a sergeant who took his duty seriously. Given a tearful confession by a young female cadet, he said he would try to change that culture. And then he lived up to his word.

"The sergeant recruited a football player/cadet, and together they amassed enough data to cause three convictions for sexual assault/rape. No big deal right? Just three? Well those were the first, at all, at USAFA since the 1990s. Moreover, the investigations by this straight shooting sergeant resulted in multiple expulsions for drug use. Yes, we expel cadets for drugs. Think about it people, do you want the folks with their finger on the nuclear trigger feeling cool and froody?

"That was 2012.

"After these cases went in, and the “informant” program was made known, reports of sexual assaults doubled. As most who work in the field will tell you, this is a clear indicator that the victims feel the system might work. DOUBLED. Success, and good job USAFA…oh, wait a minute.

"Then the Academy “Old Grads”, the alumni and active-duty officers, got into the game. This discredits and brings shame to the entire USAFA community, and the entire US Air Force, and the officers who spoke out and up and got involved should be directly credited with the 100% drop in rape/sexual assault reporting. Myself, I hold them responsible and would love to hear from any and all who can specifically name and shame these (and no gender mistakes here) men. Why?

"Because the next year the cadet/player who did the reporting was kicked out by the Air Force, and the sergeant who did the investigations was reassigned to the vital USAF job of emptying garbage. Want to guess which general ordered that? That was last year. Reports of sexual assault, unsurprisingly, plummeted at USAFA once again, and they are now in the sump. Of course, Congressionally-mandated report-wise, that means that rape dropped by 100% at USAFA. Which is probably what the Air Force wanted, because if there are no reports, there is no problem. Right?"

Lastly, Florida State got into some serious problems because by law they were required to launch their Title IX investigation in the Jameis Winston complaint in short order; they waited over a year.

My honest opinion: Boren is to be commended for handling this appropriately, but his hands are tied, to use the cliché. Frank is also not alone as a number of students (and they're mostly student/athletes) are using the legal system to fight the judgments handed down by Title IX reviews; he also has rights.

My own bottom line, 40 years after I entered OU for my freshman year...if any alcohol was involved and/or you didn't get an absolute 'yes' from a willing partner, you are running a huge risk of getting afoul of the system.

[SoonerorLater]

As I explained earlier, it's because both parties are students at the university; venue is a non-factor. This has to do with individual rights of students, who are a part of the university.

The university is compelled to 'intervene' because it's the law.

I read that but enforcement can't be without limits. The university should not be expected (allowed) to extend it's authority beyond all boundaries. The fact that both of the parties happened to be enrolled at the University of Oklahoma should be irrelevant. Need to get out of the Big Brother business.

[SoonerForLife92]

I read that but enforcement can't be without limits. The university should not be expected (allowed) to extend it's authority beyond all boundaries. The fact that both of the parties happened to be enrolled at the University of Oklahoma should be irrelevant. Need to get out of the Big Brother business.

Like he said it's because both of them are students. It's the university rules for anyone apparently. I agree with you that's it's a load of crap. Happened off campus, handle it off campus.

[cvsooner]

I read that but enforcement can't be without limits. The university should not be expected (allowed) to extend it's authority beyond all boundaries. The fact that both of the parties happened to be enrolled at the University of Oklahoma should be irrelevant. Need to get out of the Big Brother business.

Not to argue with you, but the law holds that students have certain rights, and the institution is dedicated to protecting and preserving those rights. At the same time, those students also have certain obligations, which include not practicing sexual harassment (which is really what Shannon is accused of, not assault). Nor should the target of that harassment be forced to encounter the practitioner of same. The TIX board, which has reviewed the case, has the obligation to select an appropriate action, which could range from counseling on the one end to expulsion on the other. In this case, the board picked something in the middle, a one-year suspension. Why one year? I don't know...perhaps the victim has only a year of school left?

Supposing this had happened on the official trip to Haiti the football team seems to make an annual event now? It would apply there. Why not on spring break? They're both students at the same institution. If they were students at different schools, I might agree, but in this case--and the law is pretty clear--they aren't, and the Title IX rules apply.

As someone who deals with personnel and has arbitrated several sexual harassment cases, these are difficult to handle. But appropriate action is required. Knowing what we know, or have heard, which admittedly is sketchy, my guess is the review board believed her version of the story a bit more than Frank's. But Frank has legal rights too, and this is only going to get more complicated before it's resolved.

[cvsooner]

OU's sexual misconduct and harassment policy.

https://www.ou.edu/content/dam/eoo/d...t%207-1-14.pdf

Investigative policy: https://www.ou.edu/content/dam/eoo/d...y%207-1-14.pdf

Reading these at some length this morning, looks like Shannon is affected by this policy because he is a student over whom "the University has control over either the alleged perpetrator or the facility, or context of the event (whether on or off campus)."

As a member of the OU football team, and the recipient of a scholarship, I'd say OU has control, and indeed a supplemental policy applies to student-athletes. From Joe Castiglione comes this bit on the Sooner recruit page:

"Throughout the department, OU's student-athletes, coaches and staff members are committed to our core values, a set of beliefs we use in making every decision. Those values include respect, accountability for self and others, passion for comprehensive excellence, celebration of diversity and integrity in all our affairs."

Shannon has himself in an interesting situation. So does Mixon. And this is also why bringing in DGB has raised some hackles, based on his past record.

Man, what a mess.

[SoonerorLater]

Not to argue with you, but the law holds that students have certain rights, and the institution is dedicated to protecting and preserving those rights. At the same time, those students also have certain obligations, which include not practicing sexual harassment (which is really what Shannon is accused of, not assault). Nor should the target of that harassment be forced to encounter the practitioner of same. The TIX board, which has reviewed the case, has the obligation to select an appropriate action, which could range from counseling on the one end to expulsion on the other. In this case, the board picked something in the middle, a one-year suspension. Why one year? I don't know...perhaps the victim has only a year of school left?

Supposing this had happened on the official trip to Haiti the football team seems to make an annual event now? It would apply there. Why not on spring break? They're both students at the same institution. If they were students at different schools, I might agree, but in this case--and the law is pretty clear--they aren't, and the Title IX rules apply.

As someone who deals with personnel and has arbitrated several sexual harassment cases, these are difficult to handle. But appropriate action is required. Knowing what we know, or have heard, which admittedly is sketchy, my guess is the review board believed her version of the story a bit more than Frank's. But Frank has legal rights too, and this is only going to get more complicated before it's resolved.

All of this is why it is such an absurd process. The incident was investigated. The District Attorney declined to prosecute. Even though the University and the Oklahoma Judicial System operate under different standards of proof the legal, logical and fair conclusion that there was no sexual assault.

It's more than ridiculous to think that some school's board of Wise Men have the ability or resources to investigate these types of he-said, she-said incidents. I hope the Oklahoma Supreme Court upholds the District Court Judges decision. Maybe this will be the case that overturns some of Title IX social engineering.

[cherokeebrewer]

Come on now...that seems a just a tad bit condescending and judgmental to me...The accounts I read simply said she needed a ride home and he offered it to her. They "ended" up in the bedroom (not clear who took off her britches, one report said she did...another report said he did), he asked her if Aunt Flow was in town and she affirmed that...so he left.

I fail to see where the DO NOT DO THIS message comes into play...sounds like most Friday or Saturday nights in a ton of college towns...

I agree with Pride1Mom. If the girl was drunk and needed a ride home, just give her a ride home, make sure she's in the door safely and leave. Like all major football programs, the players are high profile. Just do the right thing...

[Soonerwake]

All of this is why it is such an absurd process. The incident was investigated. The District Attorney declined to prosecute. Even though the University and the Oklahoma Judicial System operate under different standards of proof the legal, logical and fair conclusion that there was no sexual assault.

It's more than ridiculous to think that some school's board of Wise Men have the ability or resources to investigate these types of he-said, she-said incidents. I hope the Oklahoma Supreme Court upholds the District Court Judges decision. Maybe this will be the case that overturns some of Title IX social engineering.

Although I am certainly no legal scholar, this is the part that raises my hackles.

[SoonerForLife92]

I agree with Pride1Mom. If the girl was drunk and needed a ride home, just give her a ride home, make sure she's in the door safely and leave. Like all major football programs, the players are high profile. Just do the right thing...

There is this little service called saferide, available to all students.

[cherokeebrewer]

There is this little service called saferide, available to all students.

Yes, but she was going to walk home and he offered her a ride...

[SoonerForLife92]

Yes, but she was going to walk home and he offered her a ride...

And how exactly is doing that, and then leaving (as per reports at least) without physically, sexually, or verbally assaulting her, not "doing the right thing"?

[cherokeebrewer]

And how exactly is doing that, and then leaving (as per reports at least) without physically, sexually, or verbally assaulting her, not "doing the right thing"?

I think under Title IX it would fall under sexual harassment, not assault. You can read the link to the story and form your own opinion. I hope Frank gets to play, but he put himself in that situation.

http://newsok.com/ou-football-sooner...012717/?page=1

[cvsooner]

Could even be sexual misconduct, rather than harassment, and Shannon as a member of the football team has an extra special obligation to follow the student body code as a representative of the University. Harsh but true.

[soonergirlNeugene]

Whenever I see reports on this, I can't help but think that it's one of those penumbra challenges for Title IX. If the information we've been given is accurate, this is right on the edge of behavior the school should permit or prohibit - again, depending on whose version of events you believe. These measures were put in place to avoid a situation where a student can be placed in class right alongside someone they have accused of or been accused by for rape or sexual harassment. There are plenty of cases highlighted over the past year with much clearer infractions where the school has decided in favor of the accused, but these tend to bring bad press with them. Finding in favor of the alleged victim is probably considered the safest option by any sort of oversight committee. We would not be hearing about this at all if Shannon weren't a first of second string linebacker at OU. The University can say they are proactive and concerned about safeguarding against sexual misconduct by acting as they did and forcing the final decision on the court system. Hopefully the courts can find a resolution that fits the facts of this case.

[birddog]

"

"Betrayed by the University?" If you do not put yourself in compromising situations then these things do not happen. Everyone has a "DO NOT DO THIS" message in their brain, but when you ignore it, there will be consequences.

That's my point. If he's not wanted at the university but he's continuing to bust his backside only to be blacklisted for a year, then cut him loose and let him move on. But the university is allowing him to continue pouring is heart and soul into this team fully aware boren and co don't want him around. Kinda like living with a woman that hates you but allows you to stay in her house because you mow the yard.

[cvsooner]

That's my point. If he's not wanted at the university but he's continuing to bust his backside only to be blacklisted for a year, then cut him loose and let him move on. But the university is allowing him to continue pouring is heart and soul into this team fully aware boren and co don't want him around. Kinda like living with a woman that hates you but allows you to stay in her house because you now the yard.

The legal thought I've been reading is that suspension is more easily defended in court, or might preclude a lawsuit, than an expulsion decision. Shannon might have a better case if he had been expelled, rather than suspended, is the thinking. This verdict falls somewhere in the middle. It is the murkiness of the public/private nature of all this that makes it complex.

The part that is easily understandable is Boren is not going to risk losing Title IX funding. No school can afford to, and if that means Shannon serves as something of a scapegoat, then so be it. I feel for the guy, I really do. From all reports, Shannon seems like a good kid. Whether that's the case....I just don't know. And even good people do stupid things sometimes, completely and seemingly out of character.

[cvsooner]

Let me also add I don't think Boren has any innate desire to kick Shannon out of school, per se. He is charged, as president of the University, with abiding by the decision of the panel. He can override the decision but I just don't see him doing it...well, in fact, that window has passed, if I'm reading the policy right. He could have overridden the determination, but--he didn't.

This article illustrates quite well, I think, the pickle OU is in at this point...three athletes and three complex matters.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-foo....co/NvldN00fvs

[8timechamps]

My honest opinion: Boren is to be commended for handling this appropriately, but his hands are tied, to use the cliché. Frank is also not alone as a number of students (and they're mostly student/athletes) are using the legal system to fight the judgments handed down by Title IX reviews; he also has rights.

My own bottom line, 40 years after I entered OU for my freshman year...if any alcohol was involved and/or you didn't get an absolute 'yes' from a willing partner, you are running a huge risk of getting afoul of the system.

I agree 100%.

Boren and the school has handled this by the book. Boren wasn't part of the title IX investigation, nor did he make the ruling.

If things weren't handled the right way, the appeal will uncover any errors.

I really don't understand how the incident caused this kind of action (granted we only know what the media has reported), however, this hopefully provides a learning experience for the young guys on the team. Nowadays, you almost need a witness to proceed with anything, so (like you said), you better get an absolute 'yes' to cover you rear.

[BoulderSooner79]

I agree 100%.

Boren and the school has handled this by the book. Boren wasn't part of the title IX investigation, nor did he make the ruling.

If things weren't handled the right way, the appeal will uncover any errors.

I really don't understand how the incident caused this kind of action (granted we only know what the media has reported), however, this hopefully provides a learning experience for the young guys on the team. Nowadays, you almost need a witness to proceed with anything, so (like you said), you better get an absolute 'yes' to cover you rear.

Maybe that's what Case McCoy was doing?