Is Obama The Worst Crony Capitalist In DC?

[FaninAma]

You asked for it.....so here it is.

socialism and fascism are very similar, but there are key differences. The primary one is private ownership. In socialism there is none, it all belongs to the state and the government dictates with is produced at all times. In fascism there is private ownership. But the government can dictate what they produce - which doesn't mean they do at all times. See Nazi Germany - fascist and USSR - socialist. Fascists are ultra nationalists, socialists are not.

fascism: "A governmental system with strong centralized power, permitting no opposition or criticism, controlling all affairs of the nation (industrial, commercial, etc.)" (American College Dictionary, New York: Random House, 1957)

socialism: "a theory or system of social organization which advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means or production, capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole" (American College Dictionary)

Now you can't vacillate between calling obama a socialist and a fascist. You just pick the one that fits the argument of the day. One day he is a socialist then when it is convenient his is a "crony" capitalist. Make up your mind which he is.

I think that there are significant areas of overlap between the 2 political philosophies. Sure there were privately held corporations in Germany under the Nazis but they were told what they were going to produce in accordance with the goals and plans of the government in return they could keep some of the profit. Surely you don't deny that the Nazis held many of the same core principles that the socialists of the time did (as outlined in the essay I provided)?

Do most of the countries in the European Union operate under a socialist philosophy or a capitalist philosophy?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

In your referenced definition of socialism, you are calling government ownership of economic means "the community as a whole", instead of what it is, government ownership. This definition ignores or refutes the reality that means of production in socialism is owned by the government. It also ignores the possibility that a socialist country or entity can wield power in the same way that a fascist state can do.

So, should a socialist state admit they control means of production, at least in their economies that are socialist, and would they have a military or police, as would a fascist state?

[Soonerjeepman]

okay,
so 8th....you say you are from Ks...where? just curious. Trying to figure your angle out...you jump up and just defend all of obama's bull$hit.

What do you do for a living as well? if ya don't care to answer I really don't GAS just curious.

[TAFBSooner]

Not inconsistent at all. Some of the world's biggest socialists are also some of the world's biggest crony capitalists. See Putin and his oligarchy of Russian billionaires. China is the same. Hitler was a huge socialist and a huge crony capitalist. The term for that style of government is corporate fascism.

OK, look at Putin. I think Russia today is a pretty good example of fascism. The government owns a large part of the means of production, but by no means all, and the govt ownership is concentrated in a few industries, obviously oil and gas production. They are certainly nationalist, and totalitarian.

Other than the fact their leaders all grew up in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, defend the idea that Russia is socialist.

Also, you threw in crony capitalism. How do you relate that to socialism vs fascism? Not attacking, just curious.

[Sooner8th]

I think that there are significant areas of overlap between the 2 political philosophies. Sure there were privately held corporations in Germany under the Nazis but they were told what they were going to produce in accordance with the goals and plans of the government in return they could keep some of the profit. Surely you don't deny that the Nazis held many of the same core principles that the socialists of the time did (as outlined in the essay I provided)?

Do most of the countries in the European Union operate under a socialist philosophy or a capitalist philosophy?

Of course there are significant areas of overlap between the two. This is a good explanation.

Unlike socialism, fascism is not opposed to private ownership of capital, provided that business owners are co-operative and do not resist state control. In fascist economic systems, such as Mussolini’s Italy, economics is considered a partnership between the state and private-owned corporations. Fascism is, however, hostile to unions, contending that workers should put the interests of the state before their own petty needs. Fascism also tends to encourage autarky (economic self sufficiency) rather than foreign trade.


http://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/....hgRQoI8w.dpuf

But the bottom line here is you guys are screaming socialist or fascist about obama depending on what article you read that day, when he is neither.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

8th, if Obear is neither fascist nor socialist to you, what is he?

[Sooner8th]

8th, if Obear is neither fascist nor socialist to you, what is he?

You have been so thoroughly indoctrinated that you think the only two choices you have are fascist nor socialist. He is a CAPITALIST.

dumbass lemming.

Do you not understand the guy who called him a socialist and started this whole thing doesn't think he is? and he works for fox "news".

4% gpd 2nd qrt 218k jobs in july - worlds lousiest socialist/fascist.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

[QUOTE=Sooner8th;4729296] He(Obear) is a CAPITALIST.

dumbass lemming.

QUOTE]why do you waste your time? You are kind of amusing, in a way that really doesn't make much sense. Oh, well. We are here to waste our time and stuff, so, it's as good as anything, I suppose.

[Sooner8th]

okay,
so 8th....you say you are from Ks...where? just curious. Trying to figure your angle out...you jump up and just defend all of obama's bull$hit.

What do you do for a living as well? if ya don't care to answer I really don't GAS just curious.

I am from kansas and we are seeing true fascism here. ANYONE who disagrees with the ultra conservative republican governor, even if you are a high school kid tweeting the rally she was forced to go to for him was boring was forced to WRITE an apology. They, meaning having state employees, check social media and the papers and track to see if anyone who says anything negative about him has any state contracts and if they do, those contracts are lost. Taxpayer money being used to check on taxpayers. We had a surplus now a huge deficit caused by massive tax cuts benefiting the wealth, the kochs no longer pay income taxes in kansas, company or personal.

I work in the private sector, I deal with asset management, which is new to me my background and my career up till now was in finance. I deal with supply and demand every single day at work.

As for defending obama, i really don't, most of the time I am just pointing out your, meaning those on the right, hypocrisy. You guys really don't want to have a rational conversation about him or what is going on, fox "news" calls him a socialist and you guys get into a circle jerk about where he is a socialist or a fascist when he is neither. Then it's worst crony capitalist ever, never once thinking about all of the no bid BILLIONS of dollars of contracts Halliburton got when bush was in office. I point out he is kicking dubya's *** on the economy and you say i'm defending him. You guys just regurgitate talking points then try to morph his behavior to met the talking point.

My angle is this, stopping the blatant lies about what is going on. A great example is the opinion piece on kansas from heritage foundation, when i posted the rebuttal to it, all i got was - you believe some liberal lamestream media "opinion" writer? Where is the facts and data to back it up? Never once asking about the facts and data from the first piece and not realizing the original piece as an option piece too, since it came from the right you guys were just going to buy it cause it backed and reinforced your beliefs. (i'm using you as a generic term to mean all righties)

[dwarthog]

I am from kansas and we are seeing true fascism here. ANYONE who disagrees with the ultra conservative republican governor, even if you are a high school kid tweeting the rally she was forced to go to for him was boring was forced to WRITE an apology. They, meaning having state employees, check social media and the papers and track to see if anyone who says anything negative about him has any state contracts and if they do, those contracts are lost. Taxpayer money being used to check on taxpayers. We had a surplus now a huge deficit caused by massive tax cuts benefiting the wealth, the kochs no longer pay income taxes in kansas, company or personal.

I work in the private sector, I deal with asset management, which is new to me my background and my career up till now was in finance. I deal with supply and demand every single day at work.

As for defending obama, i really don't, most of the time I am just pointing out your, meaning those on the right, hypocrisy. You guys really don't want to have a rational conversation about him or what is going on, fox "news" calls him a socialist and you guys get into a circle jerk about where he is a socialist or a fascist when he is neither. Then it's worst crony capitalist ever, never once thinking about all of the no bid BILLIONS of dollars of contracts Halliburton got when bush was in office. I point out he is kicking dubya's *** on the economy and you say i'm defending him. You guys just regurgitate talking points then try to morph his behavior to met the talking point.

My angle is this, stopping the blatant lies about what is going on. A great example is the opinion piece on kansas from heritage foundation, when i posted the rebuttal to it, all i got was - you believe some liberal lamestream media "opinion" writer? Where is the facts and data to back it up? Never once asking about the facts and data from the first piece and not realizing the original piece as an option piece too, since it came from the right you guys were just going to buy it cause it backed and reinforced your beliefs. (i'm using you as a generic term to mean all righties)

Forced to write an apology huh...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...llowing-soars/

You just can't help yourself can you..

[Sooner8th]

Forced to write an apology huh...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...llowing-soars/

You just can't help yourself can you..

I should have been clearer, they tried. You are over looking the most important point.

An unpleasant tweet by Emma Sullivan, 18, was flagged by Brownback’s staff last week. The teen was told by her principal at Shawnee Mission East High School to apologize, but she refused.

When it came out it was reported the principal was trying to get her to do it in writing.

[Sooner8th]

Forced to write an apology huh...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...llowing-soars/

You just can't help yourself can you..

Out of all that - you pulled this out? Nothing about taxpayer money being used to quell descent? Nothing about the kochs no longer paying taxes? Nothing about a surplus to a deficit? Nothing about pay for play? I didn't even mention the open meeting investigation where lobbyists were "invited" to the governors mansion and told point blank by brownbacks staff including giving them a list of the candidates and amounts of campaign contributions or they would not have any influence.

[dwarthog]

Out of all that - you pulled this out? Nothing about taxpayer money being used to quell descent? Nothing about the kochs no longer paying taxes? Nothing about a surplus to a deficit? Nothing about pay for play? I didn't even mention the open meeting investigation where lobbyists were "invited" to the governors mansion and told point blank by brownbacks staff including giving them a list of the candidates and amounts of campaign contributions or they would not have any influence.

Sorry, I just cherry picked the 1st lie....

[FaninAma]

You have been so thoroughly indoctrinated that you think the only two choices you have are fascist nor socialist. He is a CAPITALIST.

dumbass lemming.

Do you not understand the guy who called him a socialist and started this whole thing doesn't think he is? and he works for fox "news".

4% gpd 2nd qrt 218k jobs in july - worlds lousiest socialist/fascist.

What makes you think this? What has he ever done in his life that could be considered a capitalistic endeavor? All he has ever done is drawn a salary from the government and government funded organizations. He has never ran a business. He has never worked for a private company except for the short time he was at a private law firm for which he never even tried a case.

So Obama's approval is at 39%. It is hard to imagine that 39% of the US population are as unwilling to look objectively at Obama's and the Democrat's policies as Sooner8th is. That buy a vote scam the Democrats started in 1965 has paid huge dividends.

[Sooner8th]

Sorry, I just cherry picked the 1st lie....

call it a lie, but they did try to make her apologize.

answer to the rest.

[Sooner8th]

What makes you think this? What has he ever done in his life that could be considered a capitalistic endeavor? All he has ever done is drawn a salary from the government and government funded organizations. He has never ran a business. He has never worked for a private company except for the short time he was at a private law firm for which he never even tried a case.

So Obama's approval is at 39%. It is hard to imagine that 39% of the US population are as unwilling to look objectively at Obama's and the Democrat's policies as Sooner8th is. That buy a vote scam the Democrats started in 1965 has paid huge dividends.

He has never worked for a private company except for the short time he was at a private law firm for which he never even tried a case.

Where do you get this at? I like how the short time at a private law firm doesn't count.

4 years, short time? two years after he got out of college?

Never tried a case?

Obama arrived in Chicago in 1993 with a degree from Harvard Law School and was hired as a junior lawyer at the firm then known as Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Gallard. He helped represent clients in civil and voting rights matters and wrongful firings, argued a case before a federal appellate court, and took the lead in writing a suit to expand voter registration.

But the firm also handled routine legal matters and real estate. Obama spent about 70% of his time on voting rights, civil rights and employment, generally as a junior associate. The rest of his time was spent on matters related to real estate transactions, filing incorporation papers and defending clients against minor lawsuits.

In one instance, Obama defended a nonprofit corporation that owns low-income housing projects against a lawsuit in which a man alleged that he slipped and fell because of poor maintenance. Obama got the suit dismissed.

In another case, Obama appeared on behalf of a nonprofit corporation that provided healthcare for poor people. A woman who claimed income of less than $8,000 a year had sued Obama's client to obtain a $336 payment for baby-sitting services; Obama's client paid up, and the case was settled.

In 1994, Obama appeared in Cook County court on behalf of Woodlawn Preservation & Investment Corp., defending it against a suit by the city, which alleged that the company failed to provide heat for low-income tenants on the South Side during the winter.

I found three cases he tried in seconds.

Is writing and selling books capitalism or socialism?

I'd rather vote for someone who was successful at a law firm and at a not for profit than vote for a total failure in the private sector. You know who i'm talking about......

[dwarthog]

He has never worked for a private company except for the short time he was at a private law firm for which he never even tried a case.

Where do you get this at? I like how the short time at a private law firm doesn't count.

4 years, short time? two years after he got out of college?

Never tried a case?

Obama arrived in Chicago in 1993 with a degree from Harvard Law School and was hired as a junior lawyer at the firm then known as Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Gallard. He helped represent clients in civil and voting rights matters and wrongful firings, argued a case before a federal appellate court, and took the lead in writing a suit to expand voter registration.

But the firm also handled routine legal matters and real estate. Obama spent about 70% of his time on voting rights, civil rights and employment, generally as a junior associate. The rest of his time was spent on matters related to real estate transactions, filing incorporation papers and defending clients against minor lawsuits.

In one instance, Obama defended a nonprofit corporation that owns low-income housing projects against a lawsuit in which a man alleged that he slipped and fell because of poor maintenance. Obama got the suit dismissed.

In another case, Obama appeared on behalf of a nonprofit corporation that provided healthcare for poor people. A woman who claimed income of less than $8,000 a year had sued Obama's client to obtain a $336 payment for baby-sitting services; Obama's client paid up, and the case was settled.

In 1994, Obama appeared in Cook County court on behalf of Woodlawn Preservation & Investment Corp., defending it against a suit by the city, which alleged that the company failed to provide heat for low-income tenants on the South Side during the winter.

I found three cases he tried in seconds.

Is writing and selling books capitalism or socialism?

I'd rather vote for someone who was successful at a law firm and at a not for profit than vote for a total failure in the private sector. You know who i'm talking about......

So, where do you weigh in on voting for pathological liars like Al "I fought these wildfires myself" Gore or John "I didn't really throw my medals over the fence" Kerry"?

[Sooner8th]

So, where do you weigh in on voting for pathological liars like Al "I fought these wildfires myself" Gore or John "I didn't really throw my medals over the fence" Kerry"?

pathological liars? too funny. I DID vote for them! You are going to have to show me - fought these wildfires myself quote. As for kerry - the idiot you voted for who ran against him sure as hell didn't have any medals to do anything with. He earned them he can do with them what he wants.

Those small lies do not affect my life in any way, shape or form. Telling people cuttin' taxes won't cause deficits then changing his tune to it will but only for a couple of years, DOES affect me. I'm sure you voted for him twice.

[dwarthog]

pathological liars? too funny. I DID vote for them! You are going to have to show me - fought these wildfires myself quote. As for kerry - the idiot you voted for who ran against him sure as hell didn't have any medals to do anything with. He earned them he can do with them what he wants.

Those small lies do not affect my life in any way, shape or form. Telling people cuttin' taxes won't cause deficits then changing his tune to it will but only for a couple of years, DOES affect me. I'm sure you voted for him twice.

Al Gore fightin' fires... http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=122765

I don't care what Kerry did or didn't do with his medals. They are his.

At minimum he lied once. Either in 1971 when he said he threw them over or later when he said he didn't.

Point is, both were prepared to say anything to get into office and they pretty much did.

[Sooner8th]

Al Gore fightin' fires... http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=122765

I don't care what Kerry did or didn't do with his medals. They are his.

At minimum he lied once. Either in 1971 when he said he threw them over or later when he said he didn't.

Point is, both were prepared to say anything to get into office and they pretty much did.

but bush lying didn't bother you?