Malaysian Airlines Downed by Missile

[Skysooner]

I think at this point it is very obvious these were the Russian separatists (i.e. disguised Russian military) that brought this airline down through a misidentification. So what does this mean? Should we have tried to interfere in Crimea? I say no on that. This is a step up from that though. If it was Russian military hardware, Russia is about to face some huge sanctions. I still don't see military intervention as a possibility as going into Ukraine is a totally different thing than going into Iraq.

The reaction of the market yesterday and today shows that most consider it a short term crisis (along the lines of the US bringing that airliner down over Iran many years ago).

[okie52]

I think at this point it is very obvious these were the Russian separatists (i.e. disguised Russian military) that brought this airline down through a misidentification. So what does this mean? Should we have tried to interfere in Crimea? I say no on that. This is a step up from that though. If it was Russian military hardware, Russia is about to face some huge sanctions. I still don't see military intervention as a possibility as going into Ukraine is a totally different thing than going into Iraq.

The reaction of the market yesterday and today shows that most consider it a short term crisis (along the lines of the US bringing that airliner down over Iran many years ago).

Arming the Ukranians, sanctions, and possibly sending advisors is about all I can see the US doing in this situation. The EU/NATO should be leading this charge rather than have the US out front even though with NATO we almost always are out front. Sure glad the Russkies are helping us with Syria.

[BoulderSooner79]

This situation in Ukraine is such a shame. Ukraine could help ease tensions in Europe by being a bridge between the EU and Russia. But a thug like Putin is gonna be a thug.

[Skysooner]

Russia has never been a great military force except for WW2. They had a 10:1 advantage in Finland and almost got beat. They had overwhelming numbers in Afghanistan and a shared border and got their tails kicked. Putin needs to learn that imperialism by military adventure just doesn't work. The locals will kick your *** eventually every single time.

[BoulderSooner79]

As soon as I saw this headline, I was betting it was a mistake and that's what it appears to have happened. The Russians supplying the rebels with anti-aircraft missiles is like an adult leaving a 4 year old alone in a room with a loaded pistol on the coffee table and an action movie playing on the TV. What could possibly go wrong?

[8timechamps]

Sanctions. That's about the extent of involvement I want to see from the US. Right now, we're supplying Ukraine with non-lethal support (boots, helmets, etc.). If we start sending weapons, advisers or anything close, we'll basically be fighting a war by proxy with Russia. Putin needs to be slapped down, but the international community can take that route and do just fine.

[BoulderSooner79]

Sanctions. That's about the extent of involvement I want to see from the US. Right now, we're supplying Ukraine with non-lethal support (boots, helmets, etc.). If we start sending weapons, advisers or anything close, we'll basically be fighting a war by proxy with Russia. Putin needs to be slapped down, but the international community can take that route and do just fine.

Yep, and even sanctions won't do much because there are so many backdoors due to Europe's dependence on Russia in various ways. It also appears the pro-Russian contingent has legitimate gripes against the Ukrainian government over representation. I think they would regret getting annexed by Moscow, but being part of Ukraine has been no walk in the park. It's similar to Al-Maliki in Iraq not giving voices to the Sunni's and Kurds - it makes it unclear who is the bad guy. Bottom line is this is a mess and it's hard to see a legitimate US role outside of blustery condemnations.

[hawaii 5-0]

Now there will be more countries pizzed off at the Ruskies.

On CNN some anal-ist said that the Buk missile launcher was too complicated to show some Rebel how to work it properly in just a few days. (The Ukrainian Rebels had just shot down a Ukrainian craft just a coupla days before).

He said a Russian was probably behind the missile launch.

That would be two missiles launched and the video of the launcher being hauled away was missing two of its four missiles.

5-0

[SoonerProphet]

Looks like intel sources are backing away from the jump to conclusion mats tossed about by the chattering nitwits on the tv.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-no-russian-...-politics.html

[8timechamps]

Yep, and even sanctions won't do much because there are so many backdoors due to Europe's dependence on Russia in various ways. It also appears the pro-Russian contingent has legitimate gripes against the Ukrainian government over representation. I think they would regret getting annexed by Moscow, but being part of Ukraine has been no walk in the park. It's similar to Al-Maliki in Iraq not giving voices to the Sunni's and Kurds - it makes it unclear who is the bad guy. Bottom line is this is a mess and it's hard to see a legitimate US role outside of blustery condemnations.

While we may never know, I believe the plane was misidentified by the Russian backed militants, and shot down. Of course Putin isn't going to come out and apologize, because he's still denying involvment. Meanwhile, the rest of the world knows he is providing equipment (if not soldiers). However, I don't see any reason for the US to be involved.

The only way sanctions will take effect is if the EU joins all the way. For their own economic reasons, that may be impossible. So, it's a tough situation. Still, not a US problem.

The few sanctions that have been applied have affected the Russian stock market, and hit the pockets of a few of Russia's oligarchs. If it last long enough, it will eventually start to affect Russia's middle class (which is nowhere near what it is in the US). I'm not sure if that would be even enough to force a move on Putin's part. Even though Russians aren't in the same situation they were under old Soviet Union rule, they're not exactly living large. I'm not sure you can force the Russian leadership to do anything based on financial motives of the countries population.

[BoulderSooner79]

I've read the Russian separation of wealth makes our 1%ers look middle class. It was some enormous amount of Russia's total wealth was held by a couple hundred people. I suspect Putin knows all of them by name and they would be the only ones to have any influence if they start to feel the economic pain. But this MH17 situation is swaying the EU populous to look past just economics and they may succeed in pressuring Putin to back off a bit via real sanctions. Still not much for the US to do except to support our European friends.

[olevetonahill]

I've read the Russian separation of wealth makes our 1%ers look middle class. It was some enormous amount of Russia's total wealth was held by a couple hundred people. I suspect Putin knows all of them by name and they would be the only ones to have any influence if they start to feel the economic pain. But this MH17 situation is swaying the EU populous to look past just economics and they may succeed in pressuring Putin to back off a bit via real sanctions.

Still not much for the US to do except to support our European friends

.

You mean those friends Like the Brits and the French that are STILL selling weapons to the Rooskies? Get us the hell out of the UN and tell Europe to go to hell .