View Poll Results: Agree with Redskins patent office decision?

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  • "Redskins" trademarks should be canceled

    6 15.79%
  • "Redskins" trademarks should not be canceled

    32 84.21%
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  1. #81
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    It aint over yet, they been there before and are appealing.

    Controversy regarding the name and logo
    See also: Washington Redskins name controversy, Native American mascot controversy, and Redskin

    Some consider the name and logo of the Washington Redskins to be racist.[67] Polls have shown a variety of results. For example, a 2013 USA Today poll found widespread support for the Redskins name. The poll indicated that 79 percent of Americans polled believed that the Redskins should keep their name.[7] Likewise, an October 2013 study by market research firm Survata found that just 19 percent of respondents supported a name change for the Redskins, while 30% did not, and 51% had no opinion.[8] In contrast, in 2001, Indian Country Today conducted a poll of an undisclosed number of readers reporting that "81 percent of respondents indicated use of American Indian names, symbols and mascots are predominantly offensive and deeply disparaging to Native Americans."[68] A 2014 AP poll showed that 83% felt the team should keep its name[69]

    There have been movements by certain groups to change the name,[70] but the attempts have been unsuccessful thus far. Others make the case in defense that the Redskins name is intended to honor the bravery and dignity of American Indians,[71] and that, regardless of past usage, the word redskins today refers to the football team. Notwithstanding the protests of activists, a 2002 poll commissioned by Sports Illustrated found that 75% of those American Indians surveyed had no objection to the Redskins name.[72] The results of the poll have been criticized by American Indian activists due to Sports Illustrated's refusal to provide polling information (i.e. how participants were recruited and contacted, if they were concentrated in one region, if one ethnic group is over-represented, and the exact wording and order of questions).[73][74] But in 2004, a poll by the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania supported the prior poll's findings, concluding that 91% of the American Indians surveyed in the 48 states on the mainland USA found the name acceptable and setting out in detail the exact wording of the questions.[75] In 2013, a letter was written by 10 members of Congress, to team owner Dan Snyder, asking him to consider changing the name of the mascot.[76] Snyder insists that "We will never change the name of the team."[77] Despite this, several NFL insiders have spoken their opinions that the name should be changed, including Richard Sherman,[78] Jason Taylor,[79] and Mike Holmgren.[80]

    In 1992, a group of American Indians led by Suzan Harjo filed Harjo et al v. Pro Football, Inc. to have the United States trademarks associated with the Redskins name canceled under statutes which prevent registration of disparaging terms. The Trademark Trial and Appeal Board in 1999 ruled in favor of the petition and canceled the trademarks. Following appeals, in 2005, the D.C. Court of Appeals in Pro-Football, Inc. v. Harjo reversed the cancellation, ruling that there was insufficient evidence to support the finding of disparagement and holding that the majority of the petitioners were barred by laches from maintaining the suit.[81] Had the cancellation of the trademark been successful, the team could have still used the name, and it still would have had enforceable trademark rights under state and local laws. It would thus have been able to prevent others from using its marks on promotional goods, such as jackets and caps. It would, however, have lost various benefits of federal trademark registration, such as the ability to enlist the aid of the U.S. Customs Service to seize infringing imports at the border. On May 15, 2009, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit affirmed an earlier ruling that the American Indians had waited too long to challenge the trademark. The trademark was registered in 1967. American Indians successfully convinced the court to reconsider, based on one of the plaintiffs, Mateo Romero, being only one year old in 1967 and turning 18 in 1984. The court decision affirmed that, even accepting the 1984 date, the American Indians had still waited too long for the 1992 challenge.[82] In November 2009, in Harjo v. Pro-Football, Inc., Case No. 08-327, the U.S. Supreme Court declined certiorari and refused to hear the Indian group's appeal. A second case, Blackhorse et al v. Football, Inc., making the same arguments but with younger petitioners not barred by laches, has been scheduled to be heard by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board.[83][84] Blackhorse v. Pro Football, Inc. is unique in two ways the fact that the case is pending, not in a federal court, but in the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board, the administrative tribunal of the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Losing an opposition or cancellation proceeding does not mean that a trademark owner has to stop using its mark; it denies registration of the marks – which can be a significant penalty, for marks, like at issue in the Blackhorse case, that are used primarily for licensing purpose. The second noteworthy aspect of the case, which is that the federal Trademark Act is the only intellectual property statute that includes what amounts to a censorship clause. It provides for denial of registration to material that:…consists of or comprises immoral, deceptive, or scandalous matter; or matter which may disparage or falsely suggest a connection with persons, living or dead, institutions, beliefs, or national symbols, or bring them into contempt, or disrepute…15 U.S.C. § 1052(a).[85]

    In 2014 Eradicating Offensive Native Mascotry (EONM) began engaging in an ongoing campaign to change the name, forming out of the Twitter campaign that was timed to coincide with Super Bowl XLVIII.[86] During the Twitter storm, activists tweeted using the tag #NotYourMascot in order to raise awareness for the issue, and the tag trended.[87]

    On June 18, 2014 the United States Patent and Trademark Office cancelled the Washington Redskins trademark for a second time, saying that the name is “disparaging to Native Americans.”[88] Bob Raskopf, the Redskins trademark attorney, released a statement saying they plan to appeal the ruling. Raskopf claims the Trademark and Patent office lacked substantial evidence to back their claim that the Redskins name was disparaging to Native Americans, as well as the tribes petitioning for the name change. He also claimed that while the appeal process is going on, the trademark will remain valid.[89]
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  2. #82
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by picasso View Post


    Here's a little peak at my latest work. It's an homage to Natives who have served in the armed forces. This is half of the 48' x 48" painting.

    Awight.
    Awesome. As usual.

  3. #83
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    The bloody scalp thing isn't just a "myth". Just because you googled some blogs and couldn't find it, doesn't mean it wasn't part of our lost history. Folks were paid good money to kill "Indians" and instead of having to drag a corpse in, they turned in their bloody scalps for payment and resale. This definition of "red skins" can pretty much be considered offensive. Now the majority of you folks whining that it isn't offensive are using the, "because they tan so well" definition, which is another definition yes, but I agree it is NOT offensive. Nor are other definitions like a certain tribe wore a pretty red dress for the first day of Spring or a another tribe had ruby red lips from eating cherry blow-pops.

    That being said, I would likely vote “no” to the name change. Why? Because I, like most Native Americans I know, don't give a sh*t about what Washington's sorry azz team is named. Now, I did say MOST don't care. If you surveyed 100 Indians, 99 would probably say they could care less. But that one that does would get the biggest spotlight and the biggest bullhorn to tell why. Just like with Little Red, the small faction with the biggest voice will usually win. I do understand why some think it's offensive, but I also understand why some don't.

    When this team was named, it wasn't named to honor anyone or any Indian. I highly doubt the owner thought of bloody scalps when he named the team. And if he didn't name them after any Indians, he probably didn't care what color they were. It was simply a business decision because the owner needed a replacement for "Braves". Offensive? About as offensive as their team was last year.

    Our State's name is in fact Choctaw, which means a people, nation, or tribe, and the color red, crimson or rouge. Should this be changed because of humma meaning red? No... but if Okla - Humma translated to "bloody red savage skins", I can see some folks being a little upset about it wanting it changed. It's ignorant to think our states name should be changed now because of the term red. It's also ignorant to think a group of Vikings or drunk Irish folks are going to show up at the White House bitching about Minnesota or Notre Dame. If they do, they'll get a mic as well.

    Whether the name is changed or not doesn't matter to me personally. If it is changed though, I think it should be something more appropriate to Washington these days. Of course, if they chose the wrong name, someone might get offended and want IT changed as well. If that happens, you guys can start another huge thread on a team that no one around here cares about….

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  4. #84
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member picasso's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Native, there's a chronology somewhere I read that traces the root if it back to Tammany. I do agree that it's the fringe activists that are always the most worked up over these things.
    There's also a photo floating around of a few Navajo code talkers dressed in Redskin garb.

  5. #85
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by picasso View Post
    Native, there's a chronology somewhere I read that traces the root if it back to Tammany. I do agree that it's the fringe activists that are always the most worked up over these things.
    There's also a photo floating around of a few Navajo code talkers dressed in Redskin garb.
    This one?
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  6. #86
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    There are a few folks that see it as an honor yes. HS teams definitely see any name like that as an honor because their definition is a fierce fighter who never gave up. If the Redskins flew me in, gave me a sideline pass and a free $250 jacket, I'd wear one too.... right over the top of my Packers jersey. As a kid, I was called a ton of things because of my tan. Redskin was one of the least degrading. Of course at the time, I only knew the color definition. Had I known about the bloody scalp thing, I might have been a little more perturbed. If Snyder would come out and say, "we'd like to work with the local tribes and keep this name to honor all Natives and their history", he'd get a lot more support. Instead like Badg mentioned, he's acting like a spoiled rich kid crossing his arms and stomping his feet saying he doesn't care what people think. Again I don't care if he's forced to change it or not. I'll gladly watch my team beat their team no matter what they're called. lol!
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  7. #87
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by nativesooner View Post
    There are a few folks that see it as an honor yes. HS teams definitely see any name like that as an honor because their definition is a fierce fighter who never gave up. If the Redskins flew me in, gave me a sideline pass and a free $250 jacket, I'd wear one too.... right over the top of my Packers jersey. As a kid, I was called a ton of things because of my tan. Redskin was one of the least degrading. Of course at the time, I only knew the color definition. Had I known about the bloody scalp thing, I might have been a little more perturbed. If Snyder would come out and say, "we'd like to work with the local tribes and keep this name to honor all Natives and their history", he'd get a lot more support. Instead like Badg mentioned, he's acting like a spoiled rich kid crossing his arms and stomping his feet saying he doesn't care what people think. Again I don't care if he's forced to change it or not. I'll gladly watch my team beat their team no matter what they're called. lol!
    Yall keep talking about this Bloody Scalp thing , I never heard it so Give a Link and not just rumor ok?
    Growing up I watched a LOT of Cowboys and Indians shows and never once heard about the scalp deal .
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  8. #88
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    It's not a rumor, just another lost piece of history that no one wants to talk about. Not everything is on the net, and we can't provide links to elders mouths.



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  9. #89
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member picasso's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by nativesooner View Post
    There are a few folks that see it as an honor yes. HS teams definitely see any name like that as an honor because their definition is a fierce fighter who never gave up. If the Redskins flew me in, gave me a sideline pass and a free $250 jacket, I'd wear one too.... right over the top of my Packers jersey. As a kid, I was called a ton of things because of my tan. Redskin was one of the least degrading. Of course at the time, I only knew the color definition. Had I known about the bloody scalp thing, I might have been a little more perturbed. If Snyder would come out and say, "we'd like to work with the local tribes and keep this name to honor all Natives and their history", he'd get a lot more support. Instead like Badg mentioned, he's acting like a spoiled rich kid crossing his arms and stomping his feet saying he doesn't care what people think. Again I don't care if he's forced to change it or not. I'll gladly watch my team beat their team no matter what they're called. lol!
    That's kinda what I thought about that photo too. But I wouldn't put that crap on if I found it offensive.
    That's just me.

  10. #90
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member picasso's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by olevetonahill View Post
    Yall keep talking about this Bloody Scalp thing , I never heard it so Give a Link and not just rumor ok?
    Growing up I watched a LOT of Cowboys and Indians shows and never once heard about the scalp deal .
    Vet, some things are in history books. Not intranet links.

  11. #91
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by picasso View Post
    Vet, some things are in history books. Not intranet links.
    Bro I can understand that. Yet if its so little Known how can anyone say that it affects how they feel about a football team? If it Offends YOU , then by all means attempt to change it. It seems to be working.

    As for the Whites takin Indian scalps I would venture a guess that there were More Indians taking White scalps.
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  12. #92
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by nativesooner View Post
    There are a few folks that see it as an honor yes. HS teams definitely see any name like that as an honor because their definition is a fierce fighter who never gave up. If the Redskins flew me in, gave me a sideline pass and a free $250 jacket, I'd wear one too.... right over the top of my Packers jersey. As a kid, I was called a ton of things because of my tan. Redskin was one of the least degrading. Of course at the time, I only knew the color definition. Had I known about the bloody scalp thing, I might have been a little more perturbed. If Snyder would come out and say, "we'd like to work with the local tribes and keep this name to honor all Natives and their history", he'd get a lot more support. Instead like Badg mentioned, he's acting like a spoiled rich kid crossing his arms and stomping his feet saying he doesn't care what people think. Again I don't care if he's forced to change it or not. I'll gladly watch my team beat their team no matter what they're called. lol!
    Exactly.

    If Snyder/the NFL wanted to put an end to this once and for all, they would organize a comprehensive study/group that included native tribes across the country, then abide by the findings. Rather than trotting out a few natives in football gear, they could get an actual pulse from the affected people. Of course, that might mean ditching the name, which Snyder doesn't want (because he has painted himself in a corner now).

    As with anything, this is going to come down to money. IF advertisers decide they don't want to associate with the Redskin name, and pull out, Snyder will change the name in a second. Otherwise, this will continue on as it has.

  13. #93
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Unless the league as a whole rises up against him, a la Sterling and the Clippers in the NBA. I suspect the name will be discarded as it should be. There was a time and a place for it. No longer.

  14. #94
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by nativesooner View Post
    This doesn't support your false claim.

    "$200 for every red-skin sent to Purgatory"

    In that context, "red-skin" clearly means Indian. Not Indian scalps.

  15. #95
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
    This doesn't support your false claim.

    "$200 for every red-skin sent to Purgatory"

    In that context, "red-skin" clearly means Indian. Not Indian scalps.
    Vet wanted a visual and that's all I had in my 1800's folder on the ipad. Nowhere did I say, "here's proof!" Talk to some of the tribal elders of the Kiowa, Comanche, or Apache tribes and ask them what that term means to them. Grow up in a town that's 60-70% Indian like I have and you'll hear all kinds of stories that aren't in the US History books we thumbed through in school. Throughout the years, I've heard different definitions of the term, including bloody red scalps. I know some of you guys desperately want to pound your chest and tell us Indians how dumb we are for being offended, but it's obviously some are... no matter what definition you give.
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  16. #96
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by nativesooner View Post
    Vet wanted a visual and that's all I had in my 1800's folder on the ipad. Nowhere did I say, "here's proof!" Talk to some of the tribal elders of the Kiowa, Comanche, or Apache tribes and ask them what that term means to them. Grow up in a town that's 60-70% Indian like I have and you'll hear all kinds of stories that aren't in the US History books we thumbed through in school. Throughout the years, I've heard different definitions of the term, including bloody red scalps. I know some of you guys desperately want to pound your chest and tell us Indians how dumb we are for being offended, but it's obviously some are... no matter what definition you give.
    I've taken multiple classes on Native Americans at the college level, and I know more than I ever wanted to know about atrocities committed by white people. I know that history is misrepresented over and over and it's rarely in favor of American Indians. This Redskins thing is based on nothing, though. If you want to say the Redskins have no right to use the Indian image without consent of Indians, then fine. I don't necessarily agree, but you're welcome to disagree with me, and I can kind of see your side of the story. If you try to make this into scalp slur issue, then you're either misinformed, or more likely, a manipulative liar. There is absolutely no way to definitely say that's where the root of the word came from. In fact, the opposite is much more verifiable. I'm sure you can find an elder that will tell you things like that. You can also find elders that will tell you that certain members of the tribe can split large tornadoes. It's completely unverifiable, and should have no influence in the legal setting.

    "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."

  17. #97
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    I could go along with a name change, if it was to The Larcenists, or The Larceny. The Bandits would be acceptable, or the Frauds, maybe.

    The Totalitarians.
    Last edited by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!; 6/24/2014 at 02:17 AM.
    Put a lid on it! Kiss it goodbye. We gave it away, and apparently thought it made sense to do so.

  18. #98
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Eielson View Post
    I've taken multiple classes on Native Americans at the college level, and I know more than I ever wanted to know about atrocities committed by white people. I know that history is misrepresented over and over and it's rarely in favor of American Indians. This Redskins thing is based on nothing, though. If you want to say the Redskins have no right to use the Indian image without consent of Indians, then fine. I don't necessarily agree, but you're welcome to disagree with me, and I can kind of see your side of the story. If you try to make this into scalp slur issue, then you're either misinformed, or more likely, a manipulative liar. There is absolutely no way to definitely say that's where the root of the word came from. In fact, the opposite is much more verifiable. I'm sure you can find an elder that will tell you things like that. You can also find elders that will tell you that certain members of the tribe can split large tornadoes. It's completely unverifiable, and should have no influence in the legal setting.

    "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."

    Based on nothing? Yeah right! Live the **** and tell me it's not a slur whether it means skin color, scalps, face paint, red bandanas, whatever! I've taken a few post HS cooking classes but I'm not a sous chef in Paris! I said there were a few different definitions! Dear God, or wait, "great spirit of the sky", I'm agreeing with everyone yet you want to talk **** and call me a damn liar? Like I said, I think they should keep the damn name! Not because "ohhhhh we should be honored", not because "they really weren't trying to be negative when they picked that name", because I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE TEAM! It's obvious some Native Americans don't like the name of this team. Will they win in court, who knows? If not, you can come back here and tell everyone you were right!
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  19. #99
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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    I don't have a dog in this one... But the Native Americans were not the peaceful, platonic people that many seem to think they were... They all have violence in their lineage and nothing over the "white" man.

    I am of Viking ancestry... I should sue the Minnesota team for disparaging my lineage... I wants a lottery win...

    This whole team name stuff is stupid and too PC. Brink back Chief Nokahoma, Little Red, et al.
    Everything progressives do is aimed at weakening democracy, capitalism and the social and cultural institutions that support those things...... They are about subjugating people and being a ruling class.

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    Re: Poll: Washington Redskins patent ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHumanAlphabet View Post
    I don't have a dog in this one... But the Native Americans were not the peaceful, platonic people that many seem to think they were... They all have violence in their lineage and nothing over the "white" man.

    I am of Viking ancestry... I should sue the Minnesota team for disparaging my lineage... I wants a lottery win...

    This whole team name stuff is stupid and too PC. Brink back Chief Nokahoma, Little Red, et al.
    If you are Viking, gather up a small group of other Vikings and the media will give you a HUGE platform. If you sue and win though, please use the money to buy AD a line! haha!
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