budget and gun control editorial...

[olevetonahill]

what exactly have i not answered?

olevetonahill i asked you what was hidden - no answer.

You guys are off on some tangent where you cannot keep your arguments consistent. Tell me again how fast and furious was about not letting border agents know that they let assault rifles go through. The WHOLE point of the "scandal" was Holder LET them go through and it cost a border patrol agent his life. Your previous argument was they are getting most of their guns from outside the US, so with that logic - the border patrol would KNOW they have assault rifles.

someone asked for a democrats view point and i gave it,

then I'm insulted

- never talking about the points i made!

What a bunch of dumbasses..

...............

[Sooner8th]

Yeah, the border patrol guys think they're up against bows & arrows - you are one serious dipsh*t

WOW you are a real dumbass - it was your logic not mine......................

[OU68]

I am just one liberal democrat, you cannot spread my opinion on all democrats. Well over 80% of Americans support background checks for all purchases, at least last year it was. Republicans are always speaking of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill, but how do you propose you do it? Background checks is the only way. I don't hear the dog whistle of unconstitutional scary rights-infringing gun control initiatives and gun registry in the proposal. The proposal seems to be to close loopholes in background checks primarily at gun shows.

The NRA has been co-opted and corrupted by gun dealers who want the "freedom" to sell ANY kind of guns. They are scaring traditional NRA members with they want to take your hunting rifles and shotguns. No one is talking about doing anything with those. It is my opinion no one needs a semi-automatic rifle assault rife, well military and some law enforcement do. The reason drug cartels and gangs have them is that gun dealers here in the good 'ol US of A are selling them to them and they don't want that golden egg laying goose killed.

As for taking guns out of the hands of criminals, no this will not, BUT don't republicans freak-out about they gonna take my guns every time something to do with guns is mentioned? Republicans have blocked the Obama's surgeon general nominee because he says having a handgun in the house is bad for kids health based on if you don't have one the chances of getting shot are much lower than if you do have one, common sense, right?

I fully support background checks on ALL handgun purchases and making illegal the sale of assault rifles that were invented for the military to kill people, not to hunt. Remember, 90% of handgun shootings victims know the person who shot them.

So you still maintain that all those guns that Holder's boys let through are the main source for the cartels. Who's the dumbass?

[Sooner8th]

So you still maintain that all those guns that Holder's boys let through are the main source for the cartels. Who's the dumbass?

1. NO and i never did- not holders boys being the only source - i was trying to prove they do go from the us to cartels.

2. I should have been clearer. I should have figured folks on this board would pick apart the semantics instead of the point. I should have said - selling guns to straw men for cartels is an income source. I did a lousy job of making my point.

The REAL point i was making is - gun dealers have co-opted the NRA to keep unfettered access to any type of gun.

[Sooner8th]

So you still maintain that all those guns that Holder's boys let through are the main source for the cartels. Who's the dumbass?

Do you still maintain fast and furious "scandal" was about not letting the border patrol know they let guns go to mexico drug cartels?

[OU68]

Do you still maintain fast and furious "scandal" was about not letting the border patrol know they let guns go to mexico drug cartels?

Absolutely NOT. The dealers informed ATF agents and were told to look the other way.

[Sooner8th]

Absolutely NOT. The dealers informed ATF agents and were told to look the other way.

So - we agree on that. Guns from gun dealers are bought and they go to mexico drug cartels. My original point. Can we go back to a discussion on "gun control"?

[olevetonahill]

Discussing Gun Control with a ****in Lib is like discussing Physics with a retarded Monkey.

[Sooner8th]

Discussing Gun Control with a ****in Lib is like discussing Physics with a retarded Monkey.

Just like a conservative dumbass trying to insult a liberal by showing a pic of an ignorant conservative.

You still haven't told me what the hidden things are.

[olevetonahill]

Just like a conservative dumbass trying to insult a liberal by showing a pic of an ignorant conservative.

You still haven't told me what the hidden things are.

Aint my job . You put a sh!t sammich on the Table then ask us to take it apart and tell you whats wrong.
Idiot.

[Sooner8th]

Aint my job . You put a sh!t sammich on the Table then ask us to take it apart and tell you whats wrong.
Idiot.

i meant this dumbass -

On the surface you make sense. But its whats UNDER the surface that has answered My question of "If you were a Lib Idiot"

[olevetonahill]

i meant this dumbass -

Thats the Sh!T Sammich i was referring to there Pot!

[Sooner8th]

Thats the Sh!T Sammich i was referring to there Pot!

So tell me what is under it.

[Sooner Eclipse]

The stated goal of allowing these purchases was to continue to track the firearms as they were transferred to higher-level traffickers and key figures in Mexican cartels, with the expectation that this would lead to their arrests and the dismantling of the cartels.

You're right. That was the stated goal of both linebacker and F&F. The difference with F&F is Obummer and Holder decided it was better to "lose" these guns, wait for them to show up at crime scenes, and then use that as proof of need for more stringent gun control to the American public. Do you not remember the multiple speeches prior to F&F becoming public by the Mexican president demanding the US do something about the flow of guns across the border? Those speeches stopped after that ATF agent let Holder's cat out of the bag. This despite the fact that US sourced arms were a fraction of the guns that were being recovered in Mexico. Had that agent not sold Holder out, the true goal would have been the administrations planned, predictable response using F&F results of dead mexicans and border patrol agents as justification.

The unstated purpose of Holder/Obama's F&F operation was to supply "proof" to the urgent need to enact additional gun control legislation. Obama and the Mexican president were playing the American public to achieve a common goal.

Yay, more gun control, because "we are supplying the cartels with American guns" and this is "proof".

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The reality that is Beary going without congress' approval of more punitive and restrictive gun control measures is proof of one of the reasons that we have the 2nd amendment in the first place: to guard against a government going on an outlaw tear, and threatening the populace with no adequate means of self defense, against both the thugs in our midst, and a government gone awry.

[olevetonahill]

The reality that is Beary going without congress' approval of more punitive and restrictive gun control measures is proof of one of the reasons that we have the 2nd amendment in the first place: to guard against a government going on an outlaw tear, and threatening the populace with no adequate means of self defense, against both the thugs in our midst, and a government gone awry.

Yall debating Gun Control with a Lib is idiotic. He has his little Pea Pickin mind made up, He has ALL the answers and if that aint enough He Knows its all Bush's fault.

[Sooner Eclipse]

Yall debating Gun Control with a Lib is idiotic. He has his little Pea Pickin mind made up, He has ALL the answers and if that aint enough He Knows its all Bush's fault.

Not debating him. He can believe whatever bull ****e Obummer wishes to feed him. Just pointing out that with this admin, it's the unstated goal that is usually the problem.

[olevetonahill]

Not debating him. He can believe whatever bull ****e Obummer wishes to feed him. Just pointing out that with this admin, it's the unstated goal that is usually the problem.

Heh.

[Sooner8th]

You're right. That was the stated goal of both linebacker and F&F. The difference with F&F is Obummer and Holder decided it was better to "lose" these guns, wait for them to show up at crime scenes, and then use that as proof of need for more stringent gun control to the American public. Do you not remember the multiple speeches prior to F&F becoming public by the Mexican president demanding the US do something about the flow of guns across the border? Those speeches stopped after that ATF agent let Holder's cat out of the bag. This despite the fact that US sourced arms were a fraction of the guns that were being recovered in Mexico. Had that agent not sold Holder out, the true goal would have been the administrations planned, predictable response using F&F results of dead mexicans and border patrol agents as justification.

The unstated purpose of Holder/Obama's F&F operation was to supply "proof" to the urgent need to enact additional gun control legislation. Obama and the Mexican president were playing the American public to achieve a common goal.

Yay, more gun control, because "we are supplying the cartels with American guns" and this is "proof".

Where do you get this at? Oh thats right - rightwingnut websites and fox "news". Do you really think it was obama and holder themselves who told them not to interdict the guns?

I found this from Fortune:

Prosecutors: Transferring guns is legal in Arizona

This was not the view of federal prosecutors. In a meeting on Jan. 5, 2010, Emory Hurley, the assistant U.S. Attorney in Phoenix overseeing the Fast and Furious case, told the agents they lacked probable cause for arrests, according to ATF records. Hurley's judgment reflected accepted policy at the U.S. Attorney's Office in Arizona. "[P]urchasing multiple long guns in Arizona is lawful," Patrick Cunningham, the U.S. Attorney's then–criminal chief in Arizona would later write. "Transferring them to another is lawful and even sale or barter of the guns to another is lawful unless the United States can prove by clear and convincing evidence that the firearm is intended to be used to commit a crime." (Arizona federal prosecutors referred requests for comment to the Justice Department, which declined to make officials available. Hurley noted in an e-mail, "I am not able to comment on what I understand to be an ongoing investigation/prosecution. I am precluded by federal regulation, DOJ policy, the rules of professional conduct, and court order from talking with you about this matter." Cunningham's attorney also declined to comment.)

It was nearly impossible in Arizona to bring a case against a straw purchaser. The federal prosecutors there did not consider the purchase of a huge volume of guns, or their handoff to a third party, sufficient evidence to seize them. A buyer who certified that the guns were for himself, then handed them off minutes later, hadn't necessarily lied and was free to change his mind. Even if a suspect bought 10 guns that were recovered days later at a Mexican crime scene, this didn't mean the initial purchase had been illegal. To these prosecutors, the pattern proved little. Instead, agents needed to link specific evidence of intent to commit a crime to each gun they wanted to seize.

So to summarize - you think that Emory Hurley, the assistant U.S. Attorney in Phoenix got in touch with of President Obama and Holder and asked them about this?

Now I have read that in operation wide receiver many of the guns ended up in mexico drug cartel hands and this whole operation that was designed to get drug kingpins was just stupid. But it was not brought about by Obama and Holder to get more gun laws passed.

[OU68]

I found this from Fortune:

(Arizona federal prosecutors referred requests for comment to the Justice Department, which declined to make officials available. Hurley noted in an e-mail, "I am not able to comment on what I understand to be an ongoing investigation/prosecution. I am precluded by federal regulation, DOJ policy, the rules of professional conduct, and court order from talking with you about this matter." Cunningham's attorney also declined to comment.).

Vet - don't run him off, he's too much fun!