Damn.
Damn.
I got nothing. Defense.
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Bleeding Sooner Red on the East Coast since 2000.
Kelvin Sampson, Part Deux.Originally Posted by Eielson
BOOMER ......... SOONER!
AGGIES ......... SUCK!
... and the home, of the, SOONERS!
THUNDER THE F&*K UP!
I'm just curious how that's different from any other coach we've had. OU has never been a BB powerhouse.
Three straight coaches have been to Elite 8's. Two of the three have been to the Final Four.
yeah, not sure where the Kruger can't win in the postseason thing comes from. He has won plenty and has a FF under his belt. The team just wasn't that good last year, and this year they played to the level of their competition, which will cost you in the tournament. That said, they still looked pretty flat.
0-5 in postseason play with the Sooners.
He's also something like 0-6 in OT games here. I'm not sure that those two stats are related, but they're both concerning.
Having said this, I don't think he's a terrible coach. I was actually impressed with the year overall, as I didn't think we would even make an NCAA appearance after watching our performance against SDSU. He's not getting it done when it counts, though. I'm afraid that he's just a coach brought in to clean up the post-violation damage, get us back to respectability, and then pass us on to somebody else who can take us to the next level. I know he had a Final Four appearance, but that was 20 years ago. Since then, he's only had one Sweet 16. In almost 30 years of coaching, he's never won a regular season conference championship outright, and he's had 1st or 2nd round exits in 10 of his 13 NCAA appearances. 1st round exits are nothing new to us, but it's still frustrating. I do like where this team is heading, though. I'm pretty disappointed by our postseason trend, but if history continues to repeat itself, Kruger's bound to have a really fun group that competes for a national championship.
Last edited by Eielson; 3/20/2014 at 11:28 PM.
I don't mean to be insulting by saying this to anyone, but all this dumping on Kruger for the way this season ended is just flat BS and is irritating as hell. It makes me think that you don't have the slightest clue of how lucky we are to have him. I get that most of the people here are more football savvy than basketball savvy, but this is getting ridiculous. I've been playing and watching basketball for a long time, and Lon is already easily my favorite OU coach. Simply put, he puts his kids in position to win, consistently. He's not the greatest recruiter when it comes to getting elite talent, and that kind of sucks. So yeah, go ahead and knock him for that. (Hey, maybe we should bring back Capel? Or maybe Sampson can get some great guys in exchange for some more probation?) Hell, I'm not even sure that's entire his fault up to this point, because his first year we were on restrictions. This is the first recruiting season where we didn't have to scrounge the Jucos to fill out a roster under Kruger, so I see that as a huge sign of progress.
But even if he's not a great recruiter of elite talent, what Kruger can do is spot guys that can get the job done and coach the hell out of them. There's a reason he takes teams that are not known for their basketball program, and puts them on the map. It's because he's just friggin' good at what he does. He's not a system coach like Tubbs or Sampson. Kruger knows basketball inside and out, and he does whatever is best for the guys that he can get. This system he installed this year, he's never run that system before. The only reason he ran that system this year is because it's what gave us the best chance to win with the guys that we had. And we did win. It was a good year overall, especially considering how loaded the Big 12 was this year, and where we were expected to finish.
Yeah, the ending was disappointing. But I still see the season this way - we were over-matched on the inside in almost every game we played. We have ONE legitimate offensive post threat on the entire roster (Spangler). And we have ONE legitimate interior defensive threat on the entire roster (Bennett). You want to know WHY we play "bad" defense? Because we have to compensate for our lack of size every single time down the court. You want to know why Spangler looks like a bad defender? You ever notice that Spangler spends most of his time on defense fighting through interior screens? That's because teams are taking advantage of our weakness on the inside and trying to get their guys in position down low. If Spangler doesn't do that, then he fouls out every single game, guaranteed. He does that to prevent a talented big man from getting the ball in position to make a post move. He does that to try and prevent us from excessively double-teaming the post and leaving guys wide open. Why does he do that? Because Kruger coached him that way.
People who don't know what they're talking about, including/especially commentators, LOVE to point out the obvious - wow, OU just let a guy drive to the basket unchallenged. They must just be bad at defense. Yeah, nice observation genius. Most don't understand WHY it looks so easy sometimes. And taking it the next logical step - why do you THINK that Kruger installed an offense that was designed to put up lots of shots? Because he knew what kind of disadvantage we'd be facing on the interior. Not only that, but he was working our biggest advantage, speed and athleticism. The craziest thing? Look at most of the shots we took all year. They were WIDE OPEN. The 3-pointers that we took were rarely contested and weren't late in the shot clock. They weren't bad shots when you consider the context, and when we were hitting shots it opened up the interior as well. Why were we taking lots of jump shots? Look at what's happening on the interior, and you'll understand. Besides that, we drove the ball to the basket all night long, so it's not like we're not getting the ball into the paint. We were, it's just that we weren't hitting the open shots like we did most of the season. Unfortunately that tends to happen when the stakes go up and you're not coaching a bunch of Michael Jordans.
Watch our team coming out of timeouts. Almost every time he takes a timeout, we run an excellent set play or two and it gets us back on track. That's why we never get blown out, even when we're heavily out-matched (like MSU, and KU, twice). He just knows how to put kids in good situations.
So, as pissed and frustrated as I am at losing today, I'm dying to see what he can do when/if he gets some really talented players. And I think it's possible that we'll see that in the next couple of years. We've got some good guys coming in, and we'll hopefully have a decent inside presence next year. But the greatest thing is that these very young guys learned a LOT about how to play basketball this year. They learned how to play at a major disadvantage, and still win. And they can carry that into the next few years, when hopefully we won't have as much of a disadvantage. And, hopefully, as the players mature, we won't lie down against teams that we're supposed to beat, either. Either way, I hope we're Kruger's last stop, and that he's here for as long as he wants to be.
Well, after watching the game at the bar....I came home, chilled, cheered for the horns....to lose..which they didn't, on a last second tip-in.
#1. Our Defense is not very good...all phases.
#2. We have NO size in the post.
#3. We have (had) NO POST OFFENSE.
#4. The offense we run is not very good, unless our guys are hitting 3's...which is NOT a high % offense.
#5. The "youngness" of the guys really showed tonight...(not smart passing - part of offensive issues).
With that.....I do like the direction of the team, we have a great foundation to build on. I HOPE with the new recruits, Spangler will decide to be more of an offensive threat from 10-12 feet.
I hate to say it but one of the SR will not be missed...one will.
Also, noticed ut has NO Sr's. 2 Jr/6 So/6 Fr...they will be much better next year.
How do you know if you get there, if you don't know where you are going?..oh and I had 1,713 post on the "other board"..I hate being a rookie again!
Tem,
I agree with a lot of your post...I know Spang is our only post off threat..which I really wouldn't put him as a true post. Don't get me wrong, I love the kid, his work ethic, hustle...everything, but I'd really like to see him push his scoring range out to 10/12 feet.
I did hear Kruger on sports radio up here a month or so ago say he wants 4 mobile scorers on the floor with an "eraser" in the middle for def mistakes. So, I'm not sure this offense isn't what he wants...looks like it to me.
It'll be interesting for the next few years for sure.
But hey, Men's tennis is now #1~
How do you know if you get there, if you don't know where you are going?..oh and I had 1,713 post on the "other board"..I hate being a rookie again!
Ron Krieger is Calvin Simpson's twin.
Just imagine there's a really obnoxious graphical sig here
Lon has taken the needed steps and is more than we deserve. All that despite how disappointed I am today. The future is bright.
Temujin,
I agree with most of what you said. He was very deserving of this year's Big XII Coach of the Year Award, and I don't think we're in any way unlucky to have him. As I said, I didn't feel that this team was headed to the tournament this year, and I feel that the next two years will both be better. There is reason to be optimistic, and I get that. Even though we aren't getting top notch recruits, I really like how we're recruiting. Getting guys that are top 150 (Buford, Lattin, Hield, Hornbeak), but won't bolt early for the draft is the way to go for a program like OU. We can't replenish Blake Griffins and Willie Warrens year in and year out the way Kentucky, Kansas, etc. can, so our best bet is to develop college talent (not NBA). His qualities make him a perfect fit to restore respectability to our program post-violation era.
He doesn't walk on water, though. He's not our Stoops, Switzer, or Wilkinson. More than anything, he's our Gary Gibbs. He'll win us some games, restore the image of our program, and make this transition bearable to watch, but he's only made it to the Sweet 16 once in 20 years, and hasn't ever won an outright regular season conference title. I think we should be able to make a Sweet 16 run in the next two years, but I don't know that he'll be capable of deviating too far from what he's historically done. He's won games here, but not the important ones. I know that a team like Baylor is more talented than we were, but we'd beaten them twice in the regular season. NDSU is a decent team, but they were probably the worst 12 seed this year, so they weren't underseeded. The San Diego State game was a catastrophe, and Osby is the only thing that kept that even respectable. We're also something like 0-5 or 0-6 in OT games since Kruger got here. I know that OT can be a bit of a crapshoot, but if we were good enough to get to OT, a great coach should be able to pull a few of those out.
It's not unheard of to struggle in post-season play here at OU. I get that. Sampson was the master of 1st round exits, and even he pulled out three straight Big XII Conference Tournament Championships along with back to back Elite 8 performances (one of which went to the Final Four). I think that was mainly Hollis and the rest of that group, so anybody can have tournament success if you have the right players. Hopefully Kruger gets his group like that together. Hollis and company spoiled me, so I'm not satisfied with just having a decent program. I want to make some noise. Whether or not we've ever been a powerhouse is irrelevant to me, as we've demonstrated we're capable of great success by three straight coaches who competed for national championships. I guess "powerhouse" is a term that can be taken more than one way, but I think it's false to say we've never been a powerhouse. Tubbs had a 8 year streak where he not only went to the NCAA tournament, but won a game ever year, went to the Sweet 16 4 times, two Elite 8's, a Final Four, and had a championship game appearance. During that stretch, we won the conference 4 times, and were top 3 every year.
Spangler's an ideal college 4 man. He's not a 5 for sure, though Bennett is a serviceable 5. When he's not being swarmed, Spangler's been able to get the ball in proper position and score consistently. I think if we could put him and Bennett in at the same time, this team would look MUCH different on both sides of the ball.
Yeah, that's the trend in college these days, because it's really hard to find those strong inside guys without cheating. But what we saw this year is still significantly different than what I think Kruger is looking for. Spangler sure as hell isn't an eraser of any kind. And I would categorize Spangler as a reasonably mobile scorer if he was at the 4. By saying "mobile scorer", what he's probably saying, without actually saying it, is that at the 4 he wants a 6'8" guy that can consistently hit a jumper outside 10-15 feet. I think Spangler is capable of that, but we just couldn't use him that way this year. Hopefully he'll be that guy in the coming years.
Yeah, I never said he does. I'm not naive enough to think he's the best coach in the country or anything. I just think he's perfect for our program. I wasn't even sure about that until this year, but now I'm convinced. But at the same time, I think your football-style assessment is wrong. We don't have a Wilkinson/Stoops/Switzer in basketball...a guy that's pretty much untouchable based on the on the court success. Tubbs probably comes as close to that as we've ever gotten, but even he didn't get us all the way.
I also think your assessment of Kruger is a little off. I think Kruger is a better actual coach than Tubbs. I think he knows the game of basketball much more comprehensively than Tubbs does. Tubbs was a system coach and was able to recruit some great athletes to support that system. There's nothing wrong with that, and Tubbs was very successful that way. But when you're talking about the actual game of basketball, Kruger is just better. Certainly it takes both talent and solid coaching to get all the way, but since, like you said, we don't get the annual NBA one-and-dones, that makes Kruger a really good fit.
I'm also not saying that Kruger will get us that national championship that we all want in basketball. The more I watch college ball, the more I'm inclined to believe that the college game is slanted toward the traditional powers anyway. Besides that, putting together a team that's talented, and also capable of winning 6 straight games against all top competition is pretty damn hard. But what I am saying is that I think Kruger is much more capable of getting us to those upper levels than Sampson or Capel were.
What I do think is that for OU to ever win a championship, it would have to be a perfect storm type of situation, very much like the 1988 season we had. It has to be a combination of a capable coach with an experienced and reasonably talented team. I think Kruger is that kind of coach...and I think that since Blake Griffin donned an OU uniform and since he's doing so well in the NBA, along with the success of the Thunder, our chances of stealing some reasonably good talent are better than they've ever been.
Everywhere else Kruger has been, he's had to build the talent pool off of ZERO program momentum. And while he's done well, the only really talented players he's ever coached are guys like Mitch Richmond and Andrew DeClerq. So while that MIGHT end up being the same problem here at OU, there are some outlying factors that could help him get to the next level. And even if that doesn't happen, we're still just as good as we were under Sampson, maybe even a little better...and that's not horrible.
Peace out Cam Clarke...we barely knew ya!
True about the offense we run and our youngness! Almost every crunch time half court set ended up as a turnover or a very poor shot. That is what beat us in the end.
There isn't anything wrong with being a "system coach" in college basketball. You have control of what players you recruit, so it doesn't really matter unless you're not capable of getting the guys you need. Kruger really shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Tubbs at this point. The success gap is too large. Kruger has taken over several programs with no momentum, but he's never capitalized on his success. He's made impressive runs early in most his tenures, but rather than building on that success, he's generally fallen right back to where he started.
In all honesty, I think if we are more than moderately successful over the next two years, Spangler and Bennett won't be of much importance. I was impressed with Spangler this year, but I think we got about all we could out of him. He overachieved all year due to his work ethic, but going forward, I think he needs to be a high-intensity guy off the bench. Bennett doesn't look like he'll be much more than a big body we can utilize if we need to. I think Spangler will start at the beginning of next year, but by the following year, we need to transition to Buford or Cunningham (if he comes) at the 4, and either Lattin or McNeace at the 5. I think the fact that Kruger has gotten 3 commits from front court players, and is still looking for that 4th guy as another front court player despite having no guards in this class shows you where his priorities are.
It's so frustrating to have no inside scoring threats and letting teams constantly drive and make easy baskets against us.
I was more frustrated with the fact that we bonked a few last minute free throws that would have forced NDSU to foul us some more due to a two possession game instead of one, but our team is mostly young so hopefully we'll learn. Sorry we couldn't get Cam and Neal a postseason win
Tem,
Yeah, it would be a different look with both Spang and Bennett, but if it didn't happen this year...doubt it does next. I agree with Eielson, that I'm not sure Spang is the mobile guy at the 4 spot. Who knows what another year of work will bring.
Badge, NO DOUBT...we missed at least 2 FT within the last 30 sec to SEAL the game...by our best FT shooters...UGH..
How do you know if you get there, if you don't know where you are going?..oh and I had 1,713 post on the "other board"..I hate being a rookie again!
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