1936 Redux

[FaninAma]

No you just repeated the right wing agenda without a shred of thought.

then don't ask me my opinion and then respond like a high school sophomore.

1. It will take years to build the infra infrastructure to supply Europe with the gas they need. In fact, there are some areas over there where fracking might work and that might be the better option. Still the Russians may be able to under cut prices and keep imports from being viable.

Agreed but spending the last 5 years wasting billions on failed green energy companies sure didn't get us closer to that goal.

2. Putting ABM's in Europe will only infuriate the Russians. They will be more likely to invade more countries to provide a sense of strategic depth.

yeah because that was exactly what happened when Reagan nuclear armed Europe when the USSR had an even bigger military presence and was even more aggressive towards its neighbors. Do you even study history?

3. Russia is being run by a mafia. Sooner or later the people will get fed up with the corruption and Putin will be gone.

And you think somebody friendlier to this country will take his place and cooperate with us in places like Syria and Iraq?

Lets also be clear that we are talking about a country that is smaller than the State of Maryland. I cannot see a prevailing national interest in the Ukraine or Crimea.

I tend to agree but then why was the US and EU supporting the agitators with the help iof George Soros to overthrow an elected government in a sovereign country? If they were hoping to provoke Russia they got their wish. Now lets see how they deal with the fallout.

[BigTip]

"Who cares about Crimea because it is worthless?"

That gives me no solace. The point of it is that one country is just taking another. Supposedly that is not suppose to happen any more in our civilized world.

Unfortunately there is not a lot we can do. Economic sanctions? Ha! (in thick Russian accent.) "Goodt! Now we stop paying back debt." Then laughter insues over the sound of clinking vodka glasses.

[diverdog]

then don't ask me my opinion and then respond like a high school sophomore.


Agreed but spending the last 5 years wasting billions on failed green energy companies sure didn't get us closer to that goal.


yeah because that was exactly what happened when Reagan nuclear armed Europe when the USSR had an even bigger military presence and was even more aggressive towards its neighbors. Do you even study history?


And you think somebody friendlier to this country will take his place and cooperate with us in places like Syria and Iraq?


I tend to agree but then why was the US and EU supporting the agitators with the help iof George Soros to overthrow an elected government in a sovereign country? If they were hoping to provoke Russia they got their wish. Now lets see how they deal with the fallout.

When Reagan moved in nuclear weapons Russia responded by moving SS20's closer to Europe.

Our ABM systems are not battle tested and they would be ineffective against the newly deployed R500. I have little faith they would deter Putin.

You keep missing my point. I do not care if it is Obama or a US version of Putin in office there is exactly zero we can do to stop the take over of Crimea.

I do not ever remember the US of having a goal of supplying Europe with energy. At the time it was to get us of ME oil. Before fracking wind power was one card in the deck towards that goal.

[SoonerProphet]

Then why defend the fw? You won't catch me defending any of the Bushes or establishment Republicans on foreign policy.

Don't think anyone here is defending the Obama Administration or it handling of the Ukrainian issue. However, I think the whole "weak" leadership canard foisted by those who think American firepower is a panacea for the worlds problems. Putin would have reacted this way no matter what president is in office.

[TAFBSooner]

I tend to agree but then why was the US and EU supporting the agitators with the help iof George Soros to overthrow an elected government in a sovereign country? If they were hoping to provoke Russia they got their wish. Now lets see how they deal with the fallout.

Here is the bigger reason to hate on Obama, and the whole State Dept/CIA National Security Establishmentm aka Permanent Government.

Stop interfering in other countries where we have no vital national interest, and we won't have to deal with the blowback. Instead of weak vs strong, how about smart vs dumb?

[FaninAma]

Here is the bigger reason to hate on Obama, and the whole State Dept/CIA National Security Establishmentm aka Permanent Government.

Stop interfering in other countries where we have no vital national interest, and we won't have to deal with the blowback. Instead of weak vs strong, how about smart vs dumb?

I agree. We should have never been supporting the agitators in Ukraine. Then Obama
wouldn't like an idiot when Putin one-upped him in the Crimea.

[diverdog]

I have Been reading a lot and the best move seems like the direction Obama is heading. Figure out a long rang strategy to crush the ruble. Where the strategy is vulnerable is the need for Obama to lead the G7 nations to a united front and stop Russia's access to our banks and financial markets.
This was the same strategy that broke the back of the USSR.

[TAFBSooner]

I have Been reading a lot and the best move seems like the direction Obama is heading. Figure out a long rang strategy to crush the ruble. Where the strategy is vulnerable is the need for Obama to lead the G7 nations to a united front and stop Russia's access to our banks and financial markets.
This was the same strategy that broke the back of the USSR.

Why is it in the US national interest to preserve pre-existing state borders, even when the majority of residents of a given region (i.e., Crimea) no longer want to be associated with their current state (Ukraine)?

Let me re-phrase that: why does the US national security establishment behave as if it is in the US national interest to preserve pre-existing state borders, even when the majority of residents of a given region (i.e., Crimea, the Kurds) no longer want to be associated with their current state (Ukraine, Iraq)?

[diverdog]

TAFB:

I agree with you. We should stay out of it.

[Sooner8th]

So obama misjudged him?

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4485932/bush-trusts-putin

The summit was judged a success by both sides even though it left Russia and the US little closer to resolving the issues that divided them. The atmosphere was one of friendly co-operation with the two leaders getting on far better than expected. The warmth of the meeting surprised many. The first handshake looked stiff and awkward, but after well over an hour of talks they came out smiling with Bush inviting the Russian leader to visit his ranch in Texas. Bush described their meeting as straightforward and effective. He said it was time to move beyond Cold War attitudes, away from mutually assured destruction towards mutually earned respect. "I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul. He's a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country and I appreciate very much the frank dialogue and that's the beginning of a very constructive relationship," Bush said.

That never gets old.

[Turd_Ferguson]

So obama misjudged him?

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4485932/bush-trusts-putin

The summit was judged a success by both sides even though it left Russia and the US little closer to resolving the issues that divided them. The atmosphere was one of friendly co-operation with the two leaders getting on far better than expected. The warmth of the meeting surprised many. The first handshake looked stiff and awkward, but after well over an hour of talks they came out smiling with Bush inviting the Russian leader to visit his ranch in Texas. Bush described their meeting as straightforward and effective. He said it was time to move beyond Cold War attitudes, away from mutually assured destruction towards mutually earned respect. "I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul. He's a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country and I appreciate very much the frank dialogue and that's the beginning of a very constructive relationship," Bush said.

That never gets old.

I"m not sure I see your point...

[olevetonahill]

I"m not sure I see your point...

Ya got to lift his hat up and then ya can see it.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Ya got to lift his hat up and then ya can see it.

lmao!